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aus+uk / uk.rec.sheds / Re: Dusted

SubjectAuthor
* DustedTone
+* DustedDon Stockbauer
|`* DustedTone
| `* DustedRustyHinge
|  `* DustedAhem A Rivet's Shot
|   `* Dustednev young
|    `- DustedSam Plusnet
+* Dustedsoup
|+* DustedRustyHinge
||+- DustedPeter
||`- Dustedsoup
|+* DustedTone
||+- Dustedsoup
||`* Dustednev young
|| `* Dustedsoup
||  `* Dustednev young
||   `* Dustedsoup
||    +* Dustedsoup
||    |`* DustedSam Plusnet
||    | `* Dustedsoup
||    |  +* DustedNick Odell
||    |  |`* DustedTease'n'Seize
||    |  | +- DustedAhem A Rivet's Shot
||    |  | `- DustedChrisND@privacy.net
||    |  `* DustedSam Plusnet
||    |   `- DustedAhem A Rivet's Shot
||    +- DustedTease'n'Seize
||    `- DustedNicholas D. Richards
|+* DustedAhem A Rivet's Shot
||`* Dustedsoup
|| +* DustedAhem A Rivet's Shot
|| |`* DustedDon Stockbauer
|| | `* DustedTone
|| |  `* DustedNick Odell
|| |   `- DustedTone
|| `* DustedJohn Williamson
||  +- DustedAhem A Rivet's Shot
||  +* Dustedmaus
||  |`- DustedAhem A Rivet's Shot
||  `* Dustedsoup
||   +* DustedAhem A Rivet's Shot
||   |`- DustedJohn Williamson
||   `* DustedSam Plusnet
||    +- DustedAhem A Rivet's Shot
||    `* DustedRichard Robinson
||     +* DustedTease'n'Seize
||     |`* DustedTease'n'Seize
||     | `* DustedRichard Robinson
||     |  `* DustedTease'n'Seize
||     |   +* DustedRichard Robinson
||     |   |`* DustedKerr-Mudd, John
||     |   | +* DustedPeter
||     |   | |+* DustedRichard Robinson
||     |   | ||`* DustedPeter
||     |   | || `- DustedRichard Robinson
||     |   | |`* DustedChris Elvidge
||     |   | | +- DustedJohn Williamson
||     |   | | +* DustedPeter
||     |   | | |+- DustedTease'n'Seize
||     |   | | |+* Dustedmaus
||     |   | | ||`* DustedNick Odell
||     |   | | || +- DustedAhem A Rivet's Shot
||     |   | | || `* Dustedmaus
||     |   | | ||  `* DustedNick Odell
||     |   | | ||   `* DustedSam Plusnet
||     |   | | ||    `* DustedKerr-Mudd, John
||     |   | | ||     +* DustedPeter
||     |   | | ||     |`* DustedKerr-Mudd, John
||     |   | | ||     | `- DustedThe Nomad
||     |   | | ||     +* DustedAndrew Marshall
||     |   | | ||     |+* DustedAhem A Rivet's Shot
||     |   | | ||     ||+* DustedAndrew Marshall
||     |   | | ||     |||+* DustedNick Odell
||     |   | | ||     ||||+* DustedAndrew Marshall
||     |   | | ||     |||||`* DustedNick Odell
||     |   | | ||     ||||| +* DustedDon Stockbauer
||     |   | | ||     ||||| |`- Dustedmaus
||     |   | | ||     ||||| `* Dustedmaus
||     |   | | ||     |||||  +- DustedTease'n'Seize
||     |   | | ||     |||||  `* DustedNicholas D. Richards
||     |   | | ||     |||||   `* DustedPeter
||     |   | | ||     |||||    +* DustedRichard Robinson
||     |   | | ||     |||||    |`* DustedPeter
||     |   | | ||     |||||    | `* DustedRichard Robinson
||     |   | | ||     |||||    |  `- DustedPeter
||     |   | | ||     |||||    +* Dustedmaus
||     |   | | ||     |||||    |`- DustedNicholas D. Richards
||     |   | | ||     |||||    `- DustedSam Plusnet
||     |   | | ||     ||||+* DustedNicholas D. Richards
||     |   | | ||     |||||`- DustedRichard Robinson
||     |   | | ||     ||||`- DustedAhem A Rivet's Shot
||     |   | | ||     |||`- DustedBernard Peek
||     |   | | ||     ||+- DustedMike Spencer
||     |   | | ||     ||`* DustedRichard Robinson
||     |   | | ||     || `- DustedDon Stockbauer
||     |   | | ||     |`- DustedSam Plusnet
||     |   | | ||     `- DustedRichard Robinson
||     |   | | |`* DustedRichard Robinson
||     |   | | | +* DustedJohn Williamson
||     |   | | | |+* DustedChrisND@privacy.net
||     |   | | | ||`* DustedRichard Robinson
||     |   | | | |`* DustedNick Odell
||     |   | | | `* Dustedmaus
||     |   | | +- DustedTease'n'Seize
||     |   | | +- Dustedmaus
||     |   | | `* DustedSam Plusnet
||     |   | `* DustedRichard Robinson
||     |   `* DustedRichard Robinson
||     `- DustedTone
|`- Dustedmaus
`- DustedNick Odell

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Re: Dusted

<owY8K.2434$JaS8.625@fx47.iad>

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 by: Sam Plusnet - Sat, 23 Apr 2022 19:33 UTC

On 23-Apr-22 17:10, Chris Elvidge wrote:

> How do you get household gas from non-fossil sources? What sort of gas?
> Not a dig at you/them, a real query.

A supply of "Renewable" gas must surely mean they collect all the
combustion gasses from your house, and then recombine them in order to
make more gas?

--
Sam Plusnet

Re: Dusted

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From: johnwill...@btinternet.com (John Williamson)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.sheds
Subject: Re: Dusted
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2022 21:04:54 +0100
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 by: John Williamson - Sat, 23 Apr 2022 20:04 UTC

On 23/04/2022 20:33, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 23-Apr-22 17:10, Chris Elvidge wrote:
>
>> How do you get household gas from non-fossil sources? What sort of gas?
>> Not a dig at you/them, a real query.
>
> A supply of "Renewable" gas must surely mean they collect all the
> combustion gasses from your house, and then recombine them in order to
> make more gas?
>
>
In a way, they do. Your energy use emits carbon dioxide into the
atmosphere, which is absorbed by the grass, which is then eaten by cows,
who then excrete solid-ish waste, which is then fermented, producing
methane, which is what you were probably burning in your home heating
systems.

The only process which produces a surplus of usable energy is the grass
and other plants turning the CO2 into (mostly) carbohydrates, but
overall, the solar power to usable energy efficiency of that process is
less than about 4%, so each square metre of grass only produces the
equivalent of about 4 watts if averaged over the year. Direct combustion
of the grass cuts out the meat production and fermentation, but can only
be used for local heat in places such as power stations or in solid fuel
heating in buildings.

Technology can improve this, but requires large areas covered with
transparent tubes full of algae, which produce liquid fuel directly,
with a slightly higher conversion efficiency than grass.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

Re: Dusted

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From: ste...@eircom.net (Ahem A Rivet's Shot)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.sheds
Subject: Re: Dusted
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2022 21:26:20 +0100
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 by: Ahem A Rivet's - Sat, 23 Apr 2022 20:26 UTC

On Sat, 23 Apr 2022 20:33:40 +0100
Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:

> On 23-Apr-22 17:10, Chris Elvidge wrote:
>
> > How do you get household gas from non-fossil sources? What sort of gas?
> > Not a dig at you/them, a real query.
>
> A supply of "Renewable" gas must surely mean they collect all the
> combustion gasses from your house, and then recombine them in order to
> make more gas?

Yes, making use of grass and cows as intermediaries in the process.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

Re: Dusted

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From: nic...@themusicworkshop.plus.com (Nick Odell)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.sheds
Subject: Re: Dusted
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2022 22:51:11 +0100
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 by: Nick Odell - Sat, 23 Apr 2022 21:51 UTC

On 23 Apr 2022 17:58:18 GMT, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:

>On 2022-04-23, Peter <myshed@prune.org.uk> wrote:
>> Chris Elvidge <chris@mshome.net> wrote in
>> news:t418ej$r5b$1@dont-email.me:
>>
>>> On 21/04/2022 21:27, Peter wrote:
>>>> "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote in
>>>> news:20220421211752.ddfc7c7a5f7ac5ebcd95f77d@127.0.0.1:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 11:46:42 -0500
>>>>> Richard Robinson <richardR@privacy.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> []
>>>>>> electricity input, amIrite ? At Good Energy's dual rate, 35.12 and
>>>>> []
>>
>> I saw some figures recently. I think they were saying that just over 50% of
>> the UK electricty supply was from renewables. It could be a lot more with
>> some decent investment.
>>
>
>In the case of the DRAX plants, there are massive amounts of pelleted
>timber being shipped from around the world to fuel it. That is one of
>the reasons that timber for building has become so expensive. The ships
>that are bringing the pellets are fuelled by what?
>
>There are large amounts of taiga forest being harvested in canada for
>that, and Taiga takes a long time to grow.
>
>My daughter has solar heating. Works well until the weather gets cold,
>then she has to buy wood.

These wood pellets are yet another instance of saving the planet by
disrupting things, making them more expensive and making incredibly
rich people incredibly richer.

First there was biodiesel and canola/rape oil became scarce. The same
thing happened with industrial alcohol for mixing with motor fuel and
maize. The latest seems to be a scarcity of oats because so much oat
milk (hint: an oat is not a mammal) is being promoted as a healthy
alternative to dairy. There are parts of the world where people
subsist on crops like maize and oats and not only does the price put
those things out of their reach but if they had the money there's none
left for them anyway.

We all know that the Earth is a zero-sum planet and the only realistic
solutions to its problems must involve making less stuff and buying
fewer things. So why are all the proposed solutions massive
technological projects? Might making incredibly rich people incredibly
richer have anything to do with it?

Nick

Re: Dusted

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From: ste...@eircom.net (Ahem A Rivet's Shot)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.sheds
Subject: Re: Dusted
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 by: Ahem A Rivet's - Sun, 24 Apr 2022 07:06 UTC

On Sat, 23 Apr 2022 22:51:11 +0100
Nick Odell <nick@themusicworkshop.plus.com> wrote:

> These wood pellets are yet another instance of saving the planet by
> disrupting things, making them more expensive and making incredibly
> rich people incredibly richer.

The wood pellets I use come from a managed forest in Enniskillen.
They started making pellets to use up the sawdust from their sawmill (they
supply a lot of the construction timber here) but now they grow quite a lot
of wood just for pellets. They have a long standing claim that they plant
four trees for every one they cut down.

The problem seems to be idiots who plan things like pellet fired
power stations without first planning a local sustainable supply of
pellets. Stupidity is the problem here not wood pellets.

> First there was biodiesel and canola/rape oil became scarce. The same
> thing happened with industrial alcohol for mixing with motor fuel and
> maize.

We're not going to get oil replacements out of thin air and we
*need* oil replacements.

> We all know that the Earth is a zero-sum planet and the only realistic

No it isn't otherwise we'd never have reached the numbers we have,
we'd still be in caves fighting over the only antelope we've seen this
month.

In 1960 some of the people in the world were starving (a small
proportion) while some were rich and many were OK. Since then we've doubled
the world population and the proportion of starving people has gone down so
it wasn't lack of resources that kept people starving in 1960 because over
the next sixty years we learned how to make far more people rich and OK than
there were poor in 1960.

> solutions to its problems must involve making less stuff and buying
> fewer things. So why are all the proposed solutions massive

That doesn't jbex - the population curve does appear to be a
sigmoid as usual and not an exponential growth as feared but it rounds off
around 2050 at ten billion, not in 1960 at three billion. The goal is for
those ten billion to live without reducing us to subsistence survival and to
continue to do so indefinitely in something like the comfort and enjoyment
we manage today, preferably better.

The real goal though is for those ten billion people to keep getting
richer and more comfortable and finding out just what ten billion human
beings are capable of when they're not scratching to survive.

> technological projects? Might making incredibly rich people incredibly
> richer have anything to do with it?

Because the way to escape the zero sum is to change the game. We
got this far partly by becoming steadily more efficient. Planting crops
instead of roaming the countryside gathering whatever grows, farming
animals instead of hunting them, caves to huts to houses to passive
houses ... Every one of these steps has been a technological solution. So
are the next ones.

One of the things that was first mooted in print by Winston
Churchill of all people is that raising animals seems an inefficient way of
getting good meat. There's a pig farm in the Netherlands - I forget how
many stories with a tube spraying penc out halfway up it, the pigs live in
lttle boxes because there's no room for traditional farming. Better
solutions are clearly desirable - it must be a horrendous place to jbex and
no fun at all for the pigs.

When I was a boy pretty much every home in the country was
uninsulated, single glazed, drafty and heated by an open coal fire possibly
with a back boiler and radiators instead of multiple open coal fires. The
air stank of coal fumes, the buildings were black (I thought they were
built that colour until people started cleaning them) and so were the
insides of our lungs. All over the country men risked their lives daily
digging the black gold out of poorly maintained pits. The Thames was a
sterile sewer laced with industrial waste - I remember excited
announcements of fish being seen in the Thames after the clean up got
underway.

All of that was killing us. There were howls of protest about every
step of the way to cleaning it up including the added cost of putting
catalytic converters into car exhausts (first suggested in the 1930s,
mandated half a century of lung damage later), requirements to clean
industrial chimneys, insulation, double glazing, a major shift in energy
source, fuel efficiency, removing lead! ... It was all expensive,
technological solutions that did indeed make some people rich or richer and
some people poor or poorer and we are *far* better off for it.

This process is ongoing, hampered at times by brain dead stupidity
and lack of joined up thinking - but that's humans for you, they're like
that.

There are twice as many people in the world as there were when I
was born. They're on average better fed, and healthier than people were
when I was born. The air and water is cleaner than when I was born. The
streets are safer than when I was born. There's less war in the world than
when I was born. We have global communication too cheap to meter (go on
look up the cost of a phone call to Australia in 1960).

We got there by constantly learning to do more with less, not by
doing less. It's been a winning formula for the last hundred thousand years
or so, I think we should stick with it.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

Re: Dusted

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From: adm...@127.0.0.1 (Kerr-Mudd, John)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.sheds
Subject: Re: Dusted
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2022 09:07:20 +0100
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 by: Kerr-Mudd, John - Sun, 24 Apr 2022 08:07 UTC

On Sat, 23 Apr 2022 20:33:40 +0100
Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:

> On 23-Apr-22 17:10, Chris Elvidge wrote:
>
> > How do you get household gas from non-fossil sources? What sort of gas?
> > Not a dig at you/them, a real query.
>
> A supply of "Renewable" gas must surely mean they collect all the
> combustion gasses from your house, and then recombine them in order to
> make more gas?
>
Most stuff is renewable, given enough time and no e.g. humans chopping down the rainforests in the meantime. I expect there will be some more coal measures in 100 million years. Just be patient.

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

Re: Dusted

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Subject: Re: Dusted
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 by: maus - Sun, 24 Apr 2022 08:11 UTC

On 2022-04-23, Nick Odell <nick@themusicworkshop.plus.com> wrote:
> On 23 Apr 2022 17:58:18 GMT, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
>
>>On 2022-04-23, Peter <myshed@prune.org.uk> wrote:
>>> Chris Elvidge <chris@mshome.net> wrote in
>>> news:t418ej$r5b$1@dont-email.me:
>>>
>
> First there was biodiesel and canola/rape oil became scarce. The same
> thing happened with industrial alcohol for mixing with motor fuel and
> maize. The latest seems to be a scarcity of oats because so much oat
> milk (hint: an oat is not a mammal) is being promoted as a healthy
> alternative to dairy. There are parts of the world where people
> subsist on crops like maize and oats and not only does the price put
> those things out of their reach but if they had the money there's none
> left for them anyway.

Maize, in the countries where it was grown before Columbus, can be a
good source of food, but in countries where it had been introduced since
columbus, and where it is the common food, can cause beri-beri and worse
conditions. It has to be treated correctly.

OTOH, i found the following interesting;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IV3dnLzthDA

>
> We all know that the Earth is a zero-sum planet and the only realistic
> solutions to its problems must involve making less stuff and buying
> fewer things. So why are all the proposed solutions massive
> technological projects? Might making incredibly rich people incredibly
> richer have anything to do with it?
>

++

--
greymausg@mail.com
He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness,

Re: Dusted

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From: ste...@eircom.net (Ahem A Rivet's Shot)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.sheds
Subject: Re: Dusted
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2022 09:53:37 +0100
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 by: Ahem A Rivet's - Sun, 24 Apr 2022 08:53 UTC

On Sun, 24 Apr 2022 09:07:20 +0100
"Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:

> On Sat, 23 Apr 2022 20:33:40 +0100
> Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>
> > On 23-Apr-22 17:10, Chris Elvidge wrote:
> >
> > > How do you get household gas from non-fossil sources? What sort of
> > > gas? Not a dig at you/them, a real query.
> >
> > A supply of "Renewable" gas must surely mean they collect all the
> > combustion gasses from your house, and then recombine them in order to
> > make more gas?
> >
> Most stuff is renewable, given enough time and no e.g. humans chopping
> down the rainforests in the meantime. I expect there will be some more
> coal measures in 100 million years. Just be patient.

Yes the real criterion is replaceable at or above the rate of use.
We've been using coal, oil and gas millions of times too fast which is the
real reason we have to stop sooner or later - preferably well before they
run out on us and not at the last minute.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

Re: Dusted

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From: nic...@themusicworkshop.plus.com (Nick Odell)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.sheds
Subject: Re: Dusted
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2022 12:27:03 +0100
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 by: Nick Odell - Sun, 24 Apr 2022 11:27 UTC

On 24 Apr 2022 08:11:02 GMT, maus <maus@dmaus.org> wrote:
<snip>
>OTOH, i found the following interesting;
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IV3dnLzthDA
>
<snip>
>
It was interesting, thank you.

I don't normally watch that sort of video: partly because 25 minutes
of viewing time could be much better expressed in an article with 5
minutes reading time. In this case, the subtitles would have done
that.

The other reason is that a video progresses at its own pace. When you
have the inevitable "Whoah! What did he just say?" moments, the
agenda has already moved on.

Nick

Re: Dusted

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 by: Sam Plusnet - Sun, 24 Apr 2022 21:09 UTC

On 24-Apr-22 12:27, Nick Odell wrote:

> I don't normally watch that sort of video: partly because 25 minutes
> of viewing time could be much better expressed in an article with 5
> minutes reading time.

The story of our time.
News articles (which _must_ include a video obviously!) are illustrated
with a series of (quite often irrelevant) still photos - with slow
zoom-in/out or some other image manipulation. The aim seems to be to
maximise the bandwidth used and to detract attention from the text.

--
Sam Plusnet

Re: Dusted

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Newsgroups: uk.rec.sheds
Subject: Re: Dusted
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2022 09:01:04 +0100
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 by: Kerr-Mudd, John - Mon, 25 Apr 2022 08:01 UTC

On Sun, 24 Apr 2022 22:09:28 +0100
Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:

> On 24-Apr-22 12:27, Nick Odell wrote:
>
> > I don't normally watch that sort of video: partly because 25 minutes
> > of viewing time could be much better expressed in an article with 5
> > minutes reading time.
>
> The story of our time.
> News articles (which _must_ include a video obviously!) are illustrated
> with a series of (quite often irrelevant) still photos - with slow
> zoom-in/out or some other image manipulation. The aim seems to be to
> maximise the bandwidth used and to detract attention from the text.

This bugs me too.
--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

Re: Dusted

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From: mys...@prune.org.uk (Peter)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.sheds
Subject: Re: Dusted
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2022 08:28:54 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Peter - Mon, 25 Apr 2022 08:28 UTC

"Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote in
news:20220425090104.c4d1a8321f9651431303ce10@127.0.0.1:

> On Sun, 24 Apr 2022 22:09:28 +0100
> Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>
>> On 24-Apr-22 12:27, Nick Odell wrote:
>>
>> > I don't normally watch that sort of video: partly because 25 minutes
>> > of viewing time could be much better expressed in an article with 5
>> > minutes reading time.
>>
>> The story of our time.
>> News articles (which _must_ include a video obviously!) are illustrated
>> with a series of (quite often irrelevant) still photos - with slow
>> zoom-in/out or some other image manipulation. The aim seems to be to
>> maximise the bandwidth used and to detract attention from the text.
>
> This bugs me too.

It's hanging intros that bug me. A paragraph or several of barely relevant
waffle before getting to the meat of the story.

--
Peter
-----

Re: Dusted

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From: new...@y-ddraenog-goch.org.uk (Andrew Marshall)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.sheds
Subject: Re: Dusted
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2022 09:29:27 +0100
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 by: Andrew Marshall - Mon, 25 Apr 2022 08:29 UTC

On 25/04/2022 09:01, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Apr 2022 22:09:28 +0100
> Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>> News articles (which _must_ include a video obviously!) are illustrated
>> with a series of (quite often irrelevant) still photos - with slow
>> zoom-in/out or some other image manipulation. The aim seems to be to
>> maximise the bandwidth used and to detract attention from the text.
>
> This bugs me too.

MTAAW. It seems that any stock images will do, however vaguely relevant
- just pile 'em in. A boodly waste of space and time IMO. A
straightforward written article is usually far more to the point.

--
Regards,
Andrew.

Re: Dusted

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From: adm...@127.0.0.1 (Kerr-Mudd, John)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.sheds
Subject: Re: Dusted
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2022 10:21:03 +0100
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GNU: Terry Pratchett
 by: Kerr-Mudd, John - Mon, 25 Apr 2022 09:21 UTC

On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 08:28:54 -0000 (UTC)
Peter <myshed@prune.org.uk> wrote:

> "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote in
> news:20220425090104.c4d1a8321f9651431303ce10@127.0.0.1:
>
> > On Sun, 24 Apr 2022 22:09:28 +0100
> > Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 24-Apr-22 12:27, Nick Odell wrote:
> >>
> >> > I don't normally watch that sort of video: partly because 25 minutes
> >> > of viewing time could be much better expressed in an article with 5
> >> > minutes reading time.
> >>
> >> The story of our time.
> >> News articles (which _must_ include a video obviously!) are illustrated
> >> with a series of (quite often irrelevant) still photos - with slow
> >> zoom-in/out or some other image manipulation. The aim seems to be to
> >> maximise the bandwidth used and to detract attention from the text.
> >
> > This bugs me too.
>
> It's hanging intros that bug me. A paragraph or several of barely relevant
> waffle before getting to the meat of the story.
>
Also this

Headlines deliberately withholding info (e.g. "Warwickshire pub wins award", not "Plume of Feathers 25 years in GBG")

(Made up example)

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

Re: Dusted

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From: nom...@the.desert.invalid (The Nomad)
Subject: Re: Dusted
Newsgroups: uk.rec.sheds
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 by: The Nomad - Mon, 25 Apr 2022 09:28 UTC

On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 10:21:03 +0100, "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1>
wrote:

> On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 08:28:54 -0000 (UTC)
> Peter <myshed@prune.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote in
>> news:20220425090104.c4d1a8321f9651431303ce10@127.0.0.1:
>>
>> > On Sun, 24 Apr 2022 22:09:28 +0100 Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 24-Apr-22 12:27, Nick Odell wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > I don't normally watch that sort of video: partly because 25
>> >> > minutes of viewing time could be much better expressed in an
>> >> > article with 5 minutes reading time.
>> >>
>> >> The story of our time.
>> >> News articles (which _must_ include a video obviously!) are
>> >> illustrated with a series of (quite often irrelevant) still photos -
>> >> with slow zoom-in/out or some other image manipulation. The aim
>> >> seems to be to maximise the bandwidth used and to detract attention
>> >> from the text.
>> >
>> > This bugs me too.
>>
>> It's hanging intros that bug me. A paragraph or several of barely
>> relevant waffle before getting to the meat of the story.
>>
> Also this
>
> Headlines deliberately withholding info (e.g. "Warwickshire pub wins
> award", not "Plume of Feathers 25 years in GBG")
>
> (Made up example)

Click Bait I guvax they call it.

Avpx

--
There were no public health laws in Ankh-Morpork. It would be like
installing smoke detectors in Hell.
(Feet of Clay) Mon 10464 Sep 10:25:01 BST 1993
10:25:01 up 1 day, 12:35, 10 users, load average: 1.08, 0.75, 0.70

Re: Dusted

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From: ste...@eircom.net (Ahem A Rivet's Shot)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.sheds
Subject: Re: Dusted
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2022 10:26:36 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Ahem A Rivet's - Mon, 25 Apr 2022 09:26 UTC

On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 09:29:27 +0100
Andrew Marshall <news@y-ddraenog-goch.org.uk> wrote:

> On 25/04/2022 09:01, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
> > On Sun, 24 Apr 2022 22:09:28 +0100
> > Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
> >> News articles (which _must_ include a video obviously!) are illustrated
> >> with a series of (quite often irrelevant) still photos - with slow
> >> zoom-in/out or some other image manipulation. The aim seems to be to
> >> maximise the bandwidth used and to detract attention from the text.
> >
> > This bugs me too.
>
> MTAAW. It seems that any stock images will do, however vaguely relevant
> - just pile 'em in. A boodly waste of space and time IMO. A
> straightforward written article is usually far more to the point.

Bbbuttt studies show that adding an image adds X% to the readership,
effects add Y% and video and amazing Z%.

Of course in the studies the images and videos were relevant,
attached to interesting articles and the effects accentuated the point while
the plain text articles were tediously uninteresting space filler waffle.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

Re: Dusted

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From: new...@y-ddraenog-goch.org.uk (Andrew Marshall)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.sheds
Subject: Re: Dusted
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2022 10:53:45 +0100
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 by: Andrew Marshall - Mon, 25 Apr 2022 09:53 UTC

On 25/04/2022 10:26, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 09:29:27 +0100
> Andrew Marshall <news@y-ddraenog-goch.org.uk> wrote:
>> MTAAW. It seems that any stock images will do, however vaguely relevant
>> - just pile 'em in. A straightforward written article is usually far more to the point.

> Bbbuttt studies show that adding an image adds X% to the readership,
> effects add Y% and video and amazing Z%.

Not to my readership, thobut.

> Of course in the studies the images and videos were relevant,
> attached to interesting articles and the effects accentuated the point while
> the plain text articles were tediously uninteresting space filler waffle.

Absolutely. "Let's fabricate a 'study' that gives the results we want",
innit.

--
Regards,
Andrew.

Re: Dusted

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From: nic...@themusicworkshop.plus.com (Nick Odell)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.sheds
Subject: Re: Dusted
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2022 11:10:51 +0100
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 by: Nick Odell - Mon, 25 Apr 2022 10:10 UTC

On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 10:53:45 +0100, Andrew Marshall
<news@y-ddraenog-goch.org.uk> wrote:

>On 25/04/2022 10:26, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>> On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 09:29:27 +0100
>> Andrew Marshall <news@y-ddraenog-goch.org.uk> wrote:
>>> MTAAW. It seems that any stock images will do, however vaguely relevant
>>> - just pile 'em in. A straightforward written article is usually far more to the point.
>
>> Bbbuttt studies show that adding an image adds X% to the readership,
>> effects add Y% and video and amazing Z%.
>
>Not to my readership, thobut.
>
>> Of course in the studies the images and videos were relevant,
>> attached to interesting articles and the effects accentuated the point while
>> the plain text articles were tediously uninteresting space filler waffle.
>
>Absolutely. "Let's fabricate a 'study' that gives the results we want",
>innit.

When I'm next in touch with my friend in the British Geological Survey
I'll have to ask whether the instruction to re-examine the case for
fracking in the UK comprises a conclusion and a requirement for the
study to reach the same.

Nick

Re: Dusted

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From: new...@y-ddraenog-goch.org.uk (Andrew Marshall)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.sheds
Subject: Re: Dusted
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2022 14:21:47 +0100
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 by: Andrew Marshall - Mon, 25 Apr 2022 13:21 UTC

On 25/04/2022 11:10, Nick Odell wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 10:53:45 +0100, Andrew Marshall
> <news@y-ddraenog-goch.org.uk> wrote:
>> Absolutely. "Let's fabricate a 'study' that gives the results we want",
>> innit.
> When I'm next in touch with my friend in the British Geological Survey
> I'll have to ask whether the instruction to re-examine the case for
> fracking in the UK comprises a conclusion and a requirement for the
> study to reach the same.

I'd hope that any studies wouldn't lean in either direction, but would
just focus on the facts as best they are known. IMO it's too important
to get wrong.

--
Regards,
Andrew.

Re: Dusted

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From: nicho...@salmiron.com (Nicholas D. Richards)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.sheds
Subject: Re: Dusted
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 by: Nicholas D. Richards - Mon, 25 Apr 2022 13:33 UTC

In article <gmsc6hl0fhknjtm2l0a6ecgtpu8ikq8n27@4ax.com>, Nick Odell
<nick@themusicworkshop.plus.com> on Mon, 25 Apr 2022 at 11:10:51 awoke
Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
>On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 10:53:45 +0100, Andrew Marshall
><news@y-ddraenog-goch.org.uk> wrote:
>
>>On 25/04/2022 10:26, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>>> On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 09:29:27 +0100
>>> Andrew Marshall <news@y-ddraenog-goch.org.uk> wrote:
>>>> MTAAW. It seems that any stock images will do, however vaguely relevant
>>>> - just pile 'em in. A straightforward written article is usually far more to
>the point.
>>
>>> Bbbuttt studies show that adding an image adds X% to the readership,
>>> effects add Y% and video and amazing Z%.
>>
>>Not to my readership, thobut.
>>
>>> Of course in the studies the images and videos were relevant,
>>> attached to interesting articles and the effects accentuated the point while
>>> the plain text articles were tediously uninteresting space filler waffle.
>>
>>Absolutely. "Let's fabricate a 'study' that gives the results we want",
>>innit.
>
>When I'm next in touch with my friend in the British Geological Survey
>I'll have to ask whether the instruction to re-examine the case for
>fracking in the UK comprises a conclusion and a requirement for the
>study to reach the same.
>
There is also the option of picking the 'expert'/judge/panel member. If
you choose 'wisely' you will get the answer you want, often in direct
contradiction to evidence that has been given publicly. To my mind The
Hutton enquiry is a case in point. The establishment does not need to
issue instructions, the appointee knows what the conclusion is to be.
--
0sterc@tcher -

"Où sont les neiges d'antan?"

Re: Dusted

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From: nic...@themusicworkshop.plus.com (Nick Odell)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.sheds
Subject: Re: Dusted
Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2022 17:00:47 +0100
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 by: Nick Odell - Mon, 25 Apr 2022 16:00 UTC

On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 14:21:47 +0100, Andrew Marshall
<news@y-ddraenog-goch.org.uk> wrote:

>On 25/04/2022 11:10, Nick Odell wrote:
>> On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 10:53:45 +0100, Andrew Marshall
>> <news@y-ddraenog-goch.org.uk> wrote:
>>> Absolutely. "Let's fabricate a 'study' that gives the results we want",
>>> innit.
>> When I'm next in touch with my friend in the British Geological Survey
>> I'll have to ask whether the instruction to re-examine the case for
>> fracking in the UK comprises a conclusion and a requirement for the
>> study to reach the same.
>
>I'd hope that any studies wouldn't lean in either direction, but would
>just focus on the facts as best they are known. IMO it's too important
>to get wrong.

Knowing them as I think I do, I'm saying that with my tongue firmly in
my cheek.

Nick

Re: Dusted

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 by: Don Stockbauer - Mon, 25 Apr 2022 16:57 UTC

On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 11:00:48 AM UTC-5, Nick Odell wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 14:21:47 +0100, Andrew Marshall
> <ne...@y-ddraenog-goch.org.uk> wrote:
>
> >On 25/04/2022 11:10, Nick Odell wrote:
> >> On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 10:53:45 +0100, Andrew Marshall
> >> <ne...@y-ddraenog-goch.org.uk> wrote:
> >>> Absolutely. "Let's fabricate a 'study' that gives the results we want",
> >>> innit.
> >> When I'm next in touch with my friend in the British Geological Survey
> >> I'll have to ask whether the instruction to re-examine the case for
> >> fracking in the UK comprises a conclusion and a requirement for the
> >> study to reach the same.
> >
> >I'd hope that any studies wouldn't lean in either direction, but would
> >just focus on the facts as best they are known. IMO it's too important
> >to get wrong.
> Knowing them as I think I do, I'm saying that with my tongue firmly in
> my cheek.
>
> Nick

We had trouble here in Texas with Billy Sol Estes'
wells leaning in particular directions off vertical.

Re: Dusted

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Newsgroups: uk.rec.sheds
Subject: Re: Dusted
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 by: Ahem A Rivet's - Mon, 25 Apr 2022 16:37 UTC

On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 11:10:51 +0100
Nick Odell <nick@themusicworkshop.plus.com> wrote:

> When I'm next in touch with my friend in the British Geological Survey

Somehow I think that any bias on their part has far more subtle
origins.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

Re: Dusted

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 by: maus - Mon, 25 Apr 2022 17:00 UTC

On 2022-04-25, Nick Odell <nick@themusicworkshop.plus.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 14:21:47 +0100, Andrew Marshall
><news@y-ddraenog-goch.org.uk> wrote:
>
>>On 25/04/2022 11:10, Nick Odell wrote:
>>> On Mon, 25 Apr 2022 10:53:45 +0100, Andrew Marshall
>>> <news@y-ddraenog-goch.org.uk> wrote:
>>>> Absolutely. "Let's fabricate a 'study' that gives the results we want",
>>>> innit.
>>> When I'm next in touch with my friend in the British Geological Survey
>>> I'll have to ask whether the instruction to re-examine the case for
>>> fracking in the UK comprises a conclusion and a requirement for the
>>> study to reach the same.
>>
>>I'd hope that any studies wouldn't lean in either direction, but would
>>just focus on the facts as best they are known. IMO it's too important
>>to get wrong.
>
> Knowing them as I think I do, I'm saying that with my tongue firmly in
> my cheek.
>
> Nick

First time I heard of what is now called fracking was about oil
exploration in Indonesia back in the 1960, by multinational oil
companys. Drill a hole into the earth when the first of the oil runs
out, use a special drill to fracture the rock all around the original
hole to give up any oil or gas.

Recently, I heard of people living outside the main cities in upstate
New York complaining because of the gush of gas when they turn on their
water taps in the morning.

--
greymausg@mail.com
He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness,

Re: Dusted

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 by: Tease'n'Se - Mon, 25 Apr 2022 17:11 UTC

maus wrote:

> First time I heard of what is now called fracking was about oil
> exploration in Indonesia back in the 1960, by multinational oil
> companys.

Also done in various UK onshore oil wells in Lincolnshire and Devon...

> Drill a hole into the earth when the first of the oil runs
> out, use a special drill to fracture the rock all around the original
> hole to give up any oil or gas.
>
> Recently, I heard of people living outside the main cities in upstate
> New York complaining because of the gush of gas when they turn on their
> water taps in the morning.

I've heard that the gas used to be in the water long before they started
fracking, e.g. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_Springs,_West_Virginia>

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