On Sat, 21 May 2022 07:34:08 +1000, dolf <dolfboek@hotmail.com> wrote:

> dolf <dolfboek@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> My reasonable conclusion as a "proposition of power which is asserted
>> by a
>> larger population having a prevalence of a sexual disease" is a natural
>> intuition drawn from the historical context itself.
>>
>> Which then doesn't need a coerced justification of gender based
>> political
>> diatribe.
>>
>> It's much like asking if Boris was teleported to 18 century London
>> would he
>> have girded loins and be of sound mind since he has a "Let them eat
>> cake"
>> attitude...
>>
>> YOUTUBE: "Let Them Eat Cake - The Pox"
>>
>> <https://youtu.be/5yWJKi0UOwQ>
>>
>> dolf <dolfboek@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> dolf <dolfboek@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I don't need to reply further because you ignored the historical
>>>> context of
>>>> a Syphilis pandemic would obviously have such a reasoned cause as
>>>> probably known to Freud ...
>>>>
>>>> And I won't pander to your narcissistic self justification--you were
>>>> in
>>>> error.
>>>>
>>>> I posited that the "Victorian sexual morality" was a response to the
>>>> historical reality that reasonably some 60 - 80% of Londoners within
>>>> the
>>>> 18th century might have a sexually transmitted disease.
>>>
>>> And we know from Captain Cook's travel diaries that there wasn't
>>> sufficient
>>> medical supplies on the ship to treat the rampant sexual diseases
>>> amongst
>>> the sailors and throughout the pacific islands who prostituted even
>>> their
>>> wives.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> That was the basis of my claim a "vagina with teeth" is a proposition
>>>> of
>>>> power which is asserted by a larger population having a prevalence of
>>>> disease
>>>>
>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> dolf <dolfboek@hotmail.com> wrote
>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>> dolf <dolfboek@hotmail.com> wrote
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Surely Sigmund Freud was a student of history
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nope.
>>>>>
>>>>>> It might be more correct to suggest that the VICTORIAN(20 June 1837
>>>>>> –
>>>>>> 22 Jan 1901) era attitudes are a responseto the sexual disease and
>>>>>> deprivations of the age prior.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not really. Just read
>>>>> Lock, Joan. Scotland Yard Casebook (p. 204). Lume Books.
>>>>> Interesting that quite a few of the toffs were into quite literally
>>>>> whipping and torturing children in organised events. Hard
>>>>> to see that that could be due to the sexual disease and
>>>>> deprivations of the age prior.
>>>>>
>>>>>> If one in five persons within London had Syphilis and a far greater
>>>>>> number had gonorrhea or chlamydia then it is reasonable to
>>>>>> concludethat
>>>>>> between 3 / 5th (60%) to 4 / 5th (80%) percent of the population
>>>>>> possessed a long term venereal disease and such professional
>>>>>> knowledge
>>>>>> would no doubt have permeated amongst the intelligentsia as to view
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> "more rigorous form of Victorian sexual morality than England" as
>>>>>> being
>>>>>> prudent.
>>>>>
>>>>> The reality is that Victorian sexual morality
>>>>> was much more just a façade than reality.

> If Victorian sexual morality was just a façade

I didn't say that it was just a facade.

> then it wasn't a remedy for
> the historical reality of the century prior where "between 3 / 5th (60%)
> to 4 / 5th (80%) percent of the population possessed a long term
> venereal
> disease

It hasn't been established that that was reality, just CLAIMED
and it is very bloodly unlikely that it was anything like reality.

> and a "more rigorous form of Victorian sexual morality than
> England" was being prudent.

Only if it was actually effective and there is no evidence that it was.

> Try to form logical thought flow and rational conclusion.

Something you can never manage.

> The ipso facto
> of such an assertion is that must have been a knowledge of the English
> circumstance whether by the author of the statement or their assessment
> of the historical context relevant to FREUD.

More of your mindless waffle.

> That if 60-80% of the London population had some form of a sexually
> transmitted disease

There is no evidence of that.

> and the indigenous population of the pacific island
> were similarly decimated by sexually transmitted disease (et al)

There isn't evidence of that either. And even if some were decimated,
it is much more likely that it wasnt actually sexually transmitted disease
that did it given that happed all over the fucking world. Have fun
explaining that.

> it is then reasonable to use the word pandemic to convey its human
> consequence.

Bullshit it is. A pandemic involved a much more dramatic effect
over a much wider population than that.

> And if such occurred over many years would this be a contributing factor
> to any deterioration of formerly congenial relations.

Even sillier than you usually manage and that's saying something.

>>>>>
>>>>>> Freud lived and worked in Vienna, having set up his clinical
>>>>>> practice
>>>>>> there in 1886. In 1938, Freud left Austria to escape Nazi
>>>>>> persecution.
>>>>>> He died in exile in the United Kingdom in 1939--It is not for me to
>>>>>> extrapolate or research whether his association with the UK was
>>>>>> before
>>>>>> 1938 entirely non-existent.
>>>>>
>>>>> But it is clear from his biographys that before 1938 entirely
>>>>> non-existent.
>>>>>
>>>>>> His Five Lectures on Psychoanalysis and Civilization and its
>>>>>> Discontents
>>>>>> belong to two distinct phases of Freud’s thought—a thought which was
>>>>>> always changing, expanding, and being revised , and which has as
>>>>>> many
>>>>>> discontinuities as continuities. Both texts rest written from
>>>>>> Freud’s
>>>>>> basic psychoanalytic perspective; each reflects the general
>>>>>> *historical*, philosophical, and scientific movements in which Freud
>>>>>> found himself when he developed psychoanalysis.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Freud’s Austria of the second half of the nineteenth century was
>>>>>> characterized by an even more rigorous form of Victorian sexual
>>>>>> morality
>>>>>> than England, whose sexual delicacy and frigidity is often
>>>>>> caricatured.
>>>>>
>>>>> Even that isn't clear at all.
>>>>>
>>>>>> This rigorous sexual morality did not, however,prevent Victorians
>>>>>> from
>>>>>> speaking about sexuality.
>>>>>
>>>>> And doing it with children in spades.
>>>>>
>>>>>> The large, urban, professional middle class—the bourgeoisie—had an
>>>>>> intense moral preoccupation with sexuality, particularly in women
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> children. Their sexual interests, and sexual knowledge, were
>>>>>> understood
>>>>>> to be naturally limited; however, in the case of exceptions, this
>>>>>> interest and knowledge were carefully regulated.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not really.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Young women were expected to be chaste before marriage;
>>>>>
>>>>> Nothing unusual about that.
>>>>>
>>>>>> and the private sexual experimentation of children and
>>>>>> adolescents—for
>>>>>> example, masturbation—were assiduously suppressed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thats bullshit with the dregs of their society.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Additionally, a *growing* *knowledge* *of* *sexual* *diseases*,
>>>>>> *like*
>>>>>> *syphilis*, created, in the public mind, an association between
>>>>>> *sexual*
>>>>>> *promiscuity* *and* *catastrophic* *epidemics*. Sexuality not only
>>>>>> needed to be regulatedby personal morality, or by the vigilance of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> family, but, since it could affect entire populations, was a
>>>>>> political
>>>>>> and social concern.
>>>>>
>>>>> But the reality is that raping of children and servants was rife.
>>>>>
>>>>>> At the same time the nascent field of sexology was developing. A
>>>>>> number
>>>>>> of medical researchers, like Havelock Ellis and Richard von
>>>>>> Krafft-Ebing—whom Feud knew and who publicly commented on one of
>>>>>> Freud’s
>>>>>> earliest papers—gave detailed and meticulous accounts of the forms
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> varieties of sexual behaviors and identities, regardless of their
>>>>>> rarity
>>>>>> or apparent perversity.
>>>>>
>>>>> And with Ellis, showed that it was nothing even remotely like rare..
>>>>>
>>>>>> They also tried to connect facts about sexuality to other facts,
>>>>>> which
>>>>>> had no self-evident relationship to sexuality; they asked, for
>>>>>> example,
>>>>>> how sexuality relates to class,
>>>>>
>>>>> It was well known that the dregs fucked like rabbits and
>>>>> that abortion was rife.
>>>>>
>>>>>> or how sexuality relates to criminality.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thats more complicated given that what was illegal changed so much..
>>>>>
>>>>>> The late nineteenth century was, therefore, characterized by an
>>>>>> interesting constellation of trends: a personal, familial, and
>>>>>> political
>>>>>> regulation of sexuality, on the one hand, and a proliferation of
>>>>>> scientific writing which showed how that problematic sexuality
>>>>>> nevertheless had a secure and extensive place in human nature,
>>>>>
>>>>> Corse it did.
>>>>>
>>>>>> on the other hand. This constellation served as an auspicious
>>>>>> context
>>>>>> for Freud to develop his theories. Freud described how all kinds of
>>>>>> unusual, or “perverse,” sexual desires dominate the mind—in
>>>>>> children, in
>>>>>> neurotic adults, but also in normal adults. Freud also showed how
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> mind finds itself in an irrevocable conflict with its own
>>>>>> sexuality: how
>>>>>> it fears its sexuality, and tries to avoid and eliminate it, or,
>>>>>> most
>>>>>> importantly, how it tries to forget it, or remove it from conscious
>>>>>> awareness.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thats silly with the dregs of society that just got on with fucking
>>>>> like
>>>>> rabbits.
>>>>>
>>>>>> For Freud, this meant that unusual, “perverse” sexuality had a
>>>>>> peculiar
>>>>>> fate. Regulated by morality, removed from conscious awareness, but
>>>>>> still
>>>>>> very much extant, it became “unconscious”: no longer under the
>>>>>> control
>>>>>> of a person’s self-conscious and voluntary choices, it manifested
>>>>>> in a
>>>>>> person’s involuntary actions, like mistakes and slips of the
>>>>>> tongues, as
>>>>>> well as in mental pathologies, like obsession, paranoia, hysteria,
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> anxiety.
>>>>>
>>>>> That is all just another mindless wank.
>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://www.college.columbia.edu/core/content/writings-sigmund-freud/context>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>