On 16/5/2022 5:42 pm, Yosemite Sam wrote:
> On 13/05/2022 12:56 pm, Xeno wrote:
>> On 13/5/2022 9:16 am, Clocky wrote:
>>> On 12/05/2022 7:58 pm, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>> On 12/05/2022 8:16 pm, Xeno wrote:
>>>>> On 12/5/2022 8:10 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> As Felix once commented in response to his ridiculous claim, "you
>>>>>> can relate an experience, but you cannot transfer an experience" :)
>>>>>>
>>>>> OMFG, you are incredibly obtuse. The concept is way beyond your
>>>>> ken. Easy to see you never ever set foot into an apprentice class
>>>>> ever.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> so what is the exact definition/concept of "transferred experience"?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> To be fair the idea of transferring experience does seem odd. Experience
>>
>> It's not at all odd if you think about it. For a start, I am not
>> talking about transferring experience to another person. What I am on
>> about is you gaining experience with some task, some problem, then
>> using that experience, along with any skills and knowledge gained, in
>> a different but similar scenario.
>
>
> yep. makes perfect sense. noddyliar is spinning and lying as per usual.
>
Yeah, sorry I didn't answer your post direct. The response I wrote to
*your* post is *still* sitting in my drafts folder. May as well delete
it now since my reply to Clocky on the same topic covered it better. Had
more time to cogitate on it. Every time I take my skills and experience
to a different vehicle, one I have never been specifically trained on, I
am *proving* the concept.
What Darren doesn't realise, and it is entirely unsurprising, is that
apprentice training in automotive isn't at all like his training at
Richmond Tech School. All he has shown is that he was never an
apprentice in his life.

>
>> The Victorian TAFE automotive apprentice training system has been
>> built on that concept since 1978. As I have stated previously, all
>> apprentice classes in automotive in Victoria were self paced
>> competency based from the 80s, motor mechanics being the pilot program
>> from 1978. To that end, all classes revolved around students
>> completing practical tasks and picking up the relevant underpinning
>> theory as they progressed and became *competent*.
>> FWIW, experience is an intangible but, as you are aware, it makes the
>> tasks *real*. It is encapsulated in this adage; I hear and I forget. I
>> see and I remember. I do and I understand - misattributed to Confucius
>> It relates to the three learning domains commonly referred to as
>> knowledge, skills and attitudes (KSA). this taxonomy of learning
>> behaviours can be thought of as "the goals of the learning process"
>> (Bloom, 1956)"
>> What we did in TAFE is best described in this Wikipedia article;
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_learning
>>
>> Some relevant excerpts;
>>
>>    students must do more than just listen in order to learn.
>>    They must read, write, discuss, and be engaged in solving
>>    problems. This process relates to the three learning domains
>>    referred to as knowledge, skills and attitudes (KSA). This
>>    taxonomy of learning behaviors can be thought of as "the
>>    goals of the learning process." In particular, students
>>    must engage in such higher-order thinking tasks as analysis,
>>    synthesis, and evaluation.
>>
>> and
>>
>>    There are a wide range of alternatives for the term active
>>    learning, such as: learning through play, technology-based
>>    learning, activity-based learning, group work, project
>>    method, etc. The common factors in these are some significant
>>    qualities and characteristics of active learning. Active
>>    learning is the opposite of passive learning; it is
>>    learner-centered, not teacher-centered, and requires more than
>>    just listening; the active participation of each and every
>>    student is a necessary aspect in active learning. Students
>>    must be doing things and simultaneously think about the work
>>    done and the purpose behind it so that they can enhance their
>>    higher order thinking capabilities.
>>
>>    Many research studies have proven that active learning as a
>>    strategy has promoted achievement levels and some others say
>>    that content mastery is possible through active learning
>>    strategies. However, some students as well as teachers find it
>>    difficult to adapt to the new learning technique.
>>
>> There's a lot in it and, when you look into it, you can see why Darren
>> just doesn't get it. He's never progressed beyond the concrete stage
>> in his learning. And it shows.
>>
>>> is gained through doing. You can relay your experience to someone
>>> less experienced and they can certainly learn from it, but that's
>>> transferring knowledge but the experience itself is not transferred.
>>>
>>> It's like taking a roller coaster and then describing every detail of
>>> the ride to someone who hasn't been on it. Sure, they might get a
>>> fair idea of what to expect and when but the experience itself has
>>> not been transferred to that person.
>>
>> Again, not about transferring *experience* to another person, instead
>> transferring the "experience", along with the skills and knowledge
>> gained from it, into a new problem. IOW, you're not going in cold -
>> you been there, done that. The apprentice level system is based on
>> that sort of *experience building*. Level 1 is all about terminology,
>> layouts, etc - basic stuff. Level 2 is where the students get their
>> hands dirty with *operation*. They strip down assemblies and
>> sub-assemblies, identify components (that they handle) and study the
>> system operation, measure up and compare against specs, reassemble and
>> test. In level 3 they get to diagnose faults, then verify, through
>> disassembly or testing, the validity of their diagnosis. What the
>> apprentice does is transfer the previous experience, and whatever
>> skills and knowledge they gleaned from it, across to a similar task or
>> to progressively more complex tasks. The *hands on experience* is key
>> to the knowledge and skills building processes.
>>
>> A sub-point is this;
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experiential_learning
>>
>>    The general concept of learning through experience is ancient.
>>    Around 350 BC, Aristotle wrote in the Nicomachean Ethics "for
>>    the things we have to learn before we can do them, we learn by
>>    doing them".
>>>
>>> I mean we see it all the time in here. NoddyLiar gets educated and
>>> none of it gets transferred into his experience. He just keeps on
>>> keeping on in ignorance and in fact he fights it. None of it gets
>>> through his thick skull which is why he's the worst kind of person to
>>> take your car to.
>>
>> Well, Darren has issues. For one, he is stuck in the *concrete*
>> learning stage. Most people progress from there into the abstract
>> stage by age 12 or thereabouts and is the reason secondary school
>> teaching (& learning) is totally different from primary school
>> teaching (& learning). Explains also why Darren couldn't cope with
>> secondary school, even a secondary tech, and dropped out before
>> completion. I'm also betting he copped a lot of bullying which
>> explains his attitude and behaviour here.
>>>
>>> As an obvious recent example he can't pinpoint a misfire on a Holden
>>> V8 without swapping parts and sending people on their way in hope
>>> when anyone qualified and competent would have pinpointed the problem
>>> in seconds using a scan tool by analysing the long term fuel trim
>>> data for each cylinder. This is probably one of the most basic
>>> diagnostics one could do and he doesn't have a clue.
>>>
>>> Yet people here believe the incompetent twat is a qualified mechanic
>>> that built race engines. Well Les found out the hard way that he's
>>> all BULLSHIT.
>>>
>> I fixed your error. You're welcome!   ;-)
>>
>

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)