On 02/04/2023 13:23, Tone wrote:
> On 02/04/2023 12:57, John Williamson wrote:
>> On 02/04/2023 12:06, Tone wrote:
>>> On 02/04/2023 11:04, John Williamson wrote:
>>>> I do own a smart card reader I use to read my Tachograph card, and if
>>>> ICBA, I could probably get summat off the Dark Web to get the details
>>>> off the card.
>>>
>>> I totally unforget the outcry when manual tachos came in. "The spy in
>>> the cab" they were called! Even wrote a song about it!
>>>
>> I started driving just before the change from log books. The older
>> guys hated them, us young un's saw them as a way to stop the boss
>> telling us to work all the hours God sent us.
>>
>>> But for many years we treated tacho cards with contempt. I always had my
>>> own box of them, and frequently threw old ones out of the window.
>>> 'Frizbies' we called 'em.
>>>
>> <Grin> I still do call 'em that.
>>
>>> I constantly unremembered to change over the mode to 'break', or fill in
>>> personal details.
>>>
>> The later ones had a semi automatic mode, so most of us leave the mode
>> switch on rest, and when you start moving it triggers the driving mode
>> until your stop.
>>
>> I has worsd with a cop in Germany once, and he kindly filled the
>> details in for me, and then charged me for doing it. (I'd cut it a bit
>> tight at the hotel that morning in Belgium, and all I'd written in was
>> the start mileage.)
>>
>>> Never worked with digital tachos. I came off the road in 1999. But I
>>> imagine they are a nightmare, giving you no leeway whatsoever?
>>>
>> You and the bosses learn to live within the rules. It's not only the
>> Ministry that check them, either. The boss has the same machine I do,
>> but his can read more detail than I paid for. He can also download the
>> head data, which includes speed data for the previous 24 hours of
>> driving time, if there's a report of a problem.
>>
>> Not long after the digital tachos came in and all the hours rules
>> changed, I was asked to re-write the Ministry advice so drivers could
>> understand it. We never had any problems after that. I even told the
>> boss off when she got it wrong. (About as often as I told a fellow
>> driver that, "Yes, they *are* allowed to ask you to do that")
>>
>>> Do you still have to register break periods manually or does it assume
>>> when the wheels aren't turning, that you are on a break? What happens if
>>> you are stuck in a traffic queueueue on the M6?
>>>
>> That depends on the type of head unit and the way it is set. Most of
>> them can be left on rest, and only register that and driving. Others
>> have "other work" as the default, and you need to tell them that, no
>> you *are* on a break now. I keep getting sarky letters from the boss
>> about those, as I don't have the correct habits. Some operators also
>> expect us to use the "Out of scope" driving mode when we're mixing
>> private hire and contract or stage carriage work in the same day or week.
>>
>>> Of course most of our 'breaks' were actually loading and unloading and
>>> roping and sheeting times, so not 'breaks' at all.
>>>
>> That still happens. For us, cleaning the coach and doing paperwork
>> while we're hanging round is, legally speaking, work. There's even a
>> mode for when we are not actually on a legally required break and are
>> just hanging round, gassing or sleeping. Err, sorry, waiting anxiously
>> for our passengers to return. ;-)
>>
>>> I just couldn't drive lorries now, with all the control they have over
>>> you on the road, cabcams, incab phones, tracking. I'd hate it.
>>>
>> You get used to it, and I find it helpful if I'm stuck and the boss
>> can call the client to warn them I'm going to be late. I've even had
>> more friends use the dashcam as defence than to prove they were in the
>> wrong. It's even been known for the tacho record to get a driver off a
>> speeding fine or parking ticket as well as get an insurance claim
>> enforced against an idiot driver that hit him and claimed the opposite.
>>
>>> The joy of driving used to be the fact that once out of the yard you
>>> were your own boss. The real boss in the yard didn't care how you got
>>> the job done as long as you did, and if ever there was a tacho card
>>> records inspection, the inspector was bribable.
>>>
>> I still am treated that way, though sweet talking the inspectors is
>> more effective than bribes. I've got away with a few problems that
>> could have cost me a fortune with a glib excuse. (13 hours driving and
>> an 18 hour day going from Stoke on Trent to Paris.) ;-)
>>
>>> Much better days.
>>>
>> Yes and no. The job has changed, with more stress when driving, and
>> stricter rules, but do I want to go back to brakes and steering that
>> were more of a hope than a certainty and working so long I had to stop
>> for a nap before I fell asleep at the wheel? Not so much. The job for
>> me is still the same as it's been for the last 45 years. Keep the
>> passengers happy and safe. The only change has been the tools. Even
>> the passengers are still the same mix of annoying and great people.
>>
>> Occasionally you find a boss who's a right @rse, but I've learned to
>> avoid those.
>>
>>
>
> All very interesting, Chris, John.
>
> Yes, I too was in an accident on the A1 Grantham by-pass when an RAF
> pilot in an open MG sports car crossed roadworks outside a filling
> station, looked right when he should have looked left, and pulled out
> right in front of me.
>
> He got a hole in his head. We had heavy crash bars on our trucks. He
> wasn't wearing a seatbelt. But his mate, who had just pulled out before
> him came back and claimed I was speeding. It was my fault.
>
> The ecilop checked my card, that said I was doing the the legal 40mph,
> so that ended the matter. Yes, point taken, but I think that was the
> only time it worked in my favour.
>
I can count the total of both on one hand for me in 45 years, but I've
also been in the office and it has worked both ways for drivers under my
control quite a few times.

> OTOH aren't a lot of accidents where trucks run off the road, or slam
> into the back of motorway queueueues with fatal consequences, caused by
> drivers falling asleep because they are not allowed to stop until their
> driving time is up? If they do they get the phonecall demanding to know
> why.
>
There used to be (Still may be, I moved off that route decades ago) a
short stretch of road where most mornings there was a shunt as a dozy
lightly loaded driver failed to notice that the one in front of him had
slowed down on a steep climb after a steep drop. (M1 junction 9,
Southbound, where they had all driven non-stop from Holyhead or Stranraer)

Eastern European drivers have been known to speak to the cops in Kent
asking for a check so they could get some sleep after driving for 20
hours or so with their only break being on the ferry. "Cops have got the
keys" is apparently the only acceptable reason to be parked up for 9 hours.

> In my day if you felt drowsy you stopped and got you head down over the
> wheel for half an hour. You were them good for another shift!
>
I can safely do just over four hours per hour of nap, and have often
done so on a two driver job. which is handy when on the way back from a
ski trip.

I do, though always agree with the other driver before we leave that
even if it's only been an hour since our last swap, if either of us
feels even the slightest bit drowsy, we wake the other one up and swap
at the next services. I've done this ever since I had to almost prize
the other guy out of the seat when he insisted that he was going to
"finish my two hours". War of the Worlds flat out on the earbuds saved
us that night, as I drove the 4 hours to breakfast.

> Also delivery schedules are usually now unrealistic unless the roads are
> empty. They were glad to see us when we arrived, whenever that was.
> There were no delivery schedules. "Just get there soon as you can!"
>
>
We have that as well, though most clients will accept traffic as a
reason to be late, especially if they are on board at the time. The
worst problem is on rail replacement when people don't understand that a
train goes from A to B in more or less a straight line with a speed
limit that's about double what we are allowed to, but can't even thing
of, doing while wriggling down country lanes to get to their station.
They don't care what our timetable says, they have a copy of the train
timetable in their heads and we are invariably late.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.