On 29/01/2022 09:01, Tweed wrote:
> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 28/01/2022 10:07, Rolf Mantel wrote:
>>> Am 28.01.2022 um 06:31 schrieb Anna Noyd-Dryver:
>>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On 27/01/2022 23:08, hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>>>>>> On 27/01/2022 16:45, Bob wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2022-01-27 16:16:36 +0000, hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk said:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 27/01/2022 08:19, Bob wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2022-01-26 21:45:23 +0000, Recliner said:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 26/01/2022 10:10, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 21:35:13 -0000 (UTC)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/01/2022 16:30, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-60085498
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The presenter in the video said that he could not indicate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exactly when
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it would open, though perhaps somebody here is a little more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the know
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on a tentative opening day?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As I said previously, they're aiming for March, subject to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> successfully
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> completing the various emergency and evacuation drills.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The irony of course is that its probably not really needed now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if WFH continues
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to any great extent beyond covid.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One question no one has answered - does it count as part of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the underground?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's been answered many times: No, and not LO either. Despite
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the name,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's regarded as a network in its own right, at the same level
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as LU, LO
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the DLR. At stations like Stratford, you will see roundels
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for each of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> More like RER, IMHO.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, it's similar to the RER.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Reminds me of a German S-Bahn.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> No, they're main line trains; S-Bahn trains are more lightly
>>>>>>>>>> constructed,
>>>>>>>>>> and often third rail.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> S-Bahn is more of a branding exercise than a meaningful technical
>>>>>>>>> definition. > In most places, S-Bahn branding is applied to urban
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> suburban rail services in a city or metropolitan area that are, in
>>>>>>>>> technical terms, simply normal mainline railway trains, operating on
>>>>>>>>> shared infrastructure with the mainline network.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There is PATH in New York City and PATCO in Philadelphia, which are
>>>>>>>> S-Bahns as it crosses certain borders, yet stay relatively close to
>>>>>>>> their centres, such as what we might see in Germany as well as here.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In Philadelphia, I would regard the SEPTA heavy rail as more akin to
>>>>>>> an S-Bahn than the PATCO, which is essentailly a fully segregated
>>>>>>> metro.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> SEPTA Regional Rail is most definitely commuter, while the Norristown
>>>>>> Line is still an Interurban.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Philadelphia has its own subway system, the Broad Street Line and the
>>>>>> Market-Frankford Line, in addition to PATCO.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You need to be careful with the term commuter rail in a North American
>>>>>>> context, as that often is used for systems that are peak hours one way
>>>>>>> only (so trains operate from suburbs to the city in the morning and
>>>>>>> from the city to the suburs in the evening, with no other service).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Huh?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Metro-North, SEPTA Regional Rail, New Jersey Transit, MBTA Commuter
>>>>>> Rail, the Long Island Rail Road and even CT Rail's Shore Line East run
>>>>>> in both directions off-peak as well as in peak. In fact, some of these
>>>>>> services run almost around the clock, if not around the clock.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is also such a thing as reverse commuting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, there were some lines that limited their services to peak, such as
>>>>>> CT Rail Shore Line East, and NJT/Metro-North's Pascack Valley Line, but
>>>>>> they've pretty much gone full time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> MARC does not run weekend service into West Virginia, IIRC.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In terms of what is and is not an S-Bahn, there is no clear definition
>>>>>>> as different cities use the term for different things, from Berlin
>>>>>>> where it is practically a metro, to somewhere like Dresden where it is
>>>>>>> little more than branding applied to conventional suburban services.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In Berlin and Hamburg
>>>>>>>>> they use 3rd rail electrification that is otherwise non-standard,
>>>>>>>>> and largely on dedicated lines, but the actual technical standards
>>>>>>>>> to which the trains are built are still UIC compliant.  In that
>>>>>>>>> sense Overground
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't know what Overground is, to be honest. It seems to be a cross
>>>>>>>> between S-Bahn and RER service, combined with seating from South
>>>>>>>> Africa's Metrorail services.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What distinction are you drawing between S-Bahn and RER?  Asside from
>>>>>>> one being in Paris, and the others being in German speaking countries,
>>>>>>> they are functionally interchangable, with for example, the Munich
>>>>>>> S-Bahn being basically the same in concept as the RER.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> and Crossrail are both S-Bahn in concept, as is the Paris RER.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I consider Crossrail, Thameslink and Moscow's MTsK as well as the new
>>>>>>>> MTsD to be closer to RER.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That begs the question of what distinction you are drawing between
>>>>>>> S-Bahn and RER.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> S-Bahn I normally associate with third-rail, metro-type service,
>>>>>> whereas
>>>>>> RER is more OHLE, with higher speeds.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Having said that, I realise that the Vienna S-Bahn is likely closer
>>>>>> to RER.
>>>>>
>>>>> I just realised that S-Bahn in Vienna means Schnellbahn, compared with
>>>>> Germany, where it means Stadtbahn
>>>
>>> The S-Bahn brand was invented in Berlin with the meaning of
>>> "Schnellbahn".  During the cold war, in Berlin the S-Bahn and U-Bahn
>>> networks were separated by the politics rather than by purpose: S-Bahn
>>> was run by East Berlin,
>>
>> Deutsche Reichsbahn operated Berlin S-Bahn on each side, AIUI.
>>
>> U-Bahn was run by West Berlin (as such, S-Bahn
>>> took on underground-like tasks inside east Berlin).
>>
>> I thought that local agencies operated the U-Bahn networks on their
>> respective sides.
>>
>
> I don’t think the U-Bahn in the east was operated by the western
> authorities.

That's what I said.

I remember using an eastern U-Bahn - the ticket machine was
> operated by inserting a 20 pfennig coin and turning a handle. When I did
> this about a foot length of tickets emerged. I carefully tore off one and
> left the rest, fearing it was possibly set up to entrap westerners.

Why would they try to "entrap westerners," using that method?
> And yes, the S-Bahn in the west was operated by the east. The west local
> population largely boycotted the system.

I know.

The fare was 30 pfennig in West Berlin and 30 ostpfennig in East Berlin.