On 29/01/2022 13:24, Graeme Wall wrote:
> On 29/01/2022 09:01, Tweed wrote:
>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 28/01/2022 10:07, Rolf Mantel wrote:
>>>> Am 28.01.2022 um 06:31 schrieb Anna Noyd-Dryver:
>>>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> On 27/01/2022 23:08, hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>>>>>>> On 27/01/2022 16:45, Bob wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2022-01-27 16:16:36 +0000, hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk said:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 27/01/2022 08:19, Bob wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 2022-01-26 21:45:23 +0000, Recliner said:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 26/01/2022 10:10, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 21:35:13 -0000 (UTC)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/01/2022 16:30, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-60085498
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The presenter in the video said that he could not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> indicate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exactly when
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it would open, though perhaps somebody here is a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the know
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on a tentative opening day?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As I said previously, they're aiming for March, subject to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> successfully
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> completing the various emergency and evacuation drills.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The irony of course is that its probably not really
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> needed now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if WFH continues
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to any great extent beyond covid.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One question no one has answered - does it count as part of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the underground?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's been answered many times: No, and not LO either.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Despite
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the name,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's regarded as a network in its own right, at the same
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> level
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as LU, LO
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the DLR. At stations like Stratford, you will see
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> roundels
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for each of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> More like RER, IMHO.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, it's similar to the RER.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Reminds me of a German S-Bahn.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> No, they're main line trains; S-Bahn trains are more lightly
>>>>>>>>>>> constructed,
>>>>>>>>>>> and often third rail.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> S-Bahn is more of a branding exercise than a meaningful technical
>>>>>>>>>> definition. > In most places, S-Bahn branding is applied to urban
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> suburban rail services in a city or metropolitan area that
>>>>>>>>>> are, in
>>>>>>>>>> technical terms, simply normal mainline railway trains,
>>>>>>>>>> operating on
>>>>>>>>>> shared infrastructure with the mainline network.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There is PATH in New York City and PATCO in Philadelphia, which
>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>> S-Bahns as it crosses certain borders, yet stay relatively
>>>>>>>>> close to
>>>>>>>>> their centres, such as what we might see in Germany as well as
>>>>>>>>> here.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In Philadelphia, I would regard the SEPTA heavy rail as more
>>>>>>>> akin to
>>>>>>>> an S-Bahn than the PATCO, which is essentailly a fully segregated
>>>>>>>> metro.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> SEPTA Regional Rail is most definitely commuter, while the
>>>>>>> Norristown
>>>>>>> Line is still an Interurban.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Philadelphia has its own subway system, the Broad Street Line and
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> Market-Frankford Line, in addition to PATCO.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You need to be careful with the term commuter rail in a North
>>>>>>>> American
>>>>>>>> context, as that often is used for systems that are peak hours
>>>>>>>> one way
>>>>>>>> only (so trains operate from suburbs to the city in the morning and
>>>>>>>> from the city to the suburs in the evening, with no other service).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Huh?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Metro-North, SEPTA Regional Rail, New Jersey Transit, MBTA Commuter
>>>>>>> Rail, the Long Island Rail Road and even CT Rail's Shore Line
>>>>>>> East run
>>>>>>> in both directions off-peak as well as in peak. In fact, some of
>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>> services run almost around the clock, if not around the clock.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There is also such a thing as reverse commuting.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, there were some lines that limited their services to peak,
>>>>>>> such as
>>>>>>> CT Rail Shore Line East, and NJT/Metro-North's Pascack Valley
>>>>>>> Line, but
>>>>>>> they've pretty much gone full time.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> MARC does not run weekend service into West Virginia, IIRC.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In terms of what is and is not an S-Bahn, there is no clear
>>>>>>>> definition
>>>>>>>> as different cities use the term for different things, from Berlin
>>>>>>>> where it is practically a metro, to somewhere like Dresden where
>>>>>>>> it is
>>>>>>>> little more than branding applied to conventional suburban
>>>>>>>> services.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In Berlin and Hamburg
>>>>>>>>>> they use 3rd rail electrification that is otherwise non-standard,
>>>>>>>>>> and largely on dedicated lines, but the actual technical
>>>>>>>>>> standards
>>>>>>>>>> to which the trains are built are still UIC compliant.  In that
>>>>>>>>>> sense Overground
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't know what Overground is, to be honest. It seems to be a
>>>>>>>>> cross
>>>>>>>>> between S-Bahn and RER service, combined with seating from South
>>>>>>>>> Africa's Metrorail services.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What distinction are you drawing between S-Bahn and RER?  Asside
>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>> one being in Paris, and the others being in German speaking
>>>>>>>> countries,
>>>>>>>> they are functionally interchangable, with for example, the Munich
>>>>>>>> S-Bahn being basically the same in concept as the RER.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> and Crossrail are both S-Bahn in concept, as is the Paris RER.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I consider Crossrail, Thameslink and Moscow's MTsK as well as
>>>>>>>>> the new
>>>>>>>>> MTsD to be closer to RER.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That begs the question of what distinction you are drawing between
>>>>>>>> S-Bahn and RER.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> S-Bahn I normally associate with third-rail, metro-type service,
>>>>>>> whereas
>>>>>>> RER is more OHLE, with higher speeds.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Having said that, I realise that the Vienna S-Bahn is likely closer
>>>>>>> to RER.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I just realised that S-Bahn in Vienna means Schnellbahn, compared
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> Germany, where it means Stadtbahn
>>>>
>>>> The S-Bahn brand was invented in Berlin with the meaning of
>>>> "Schnellbahn".  During the cold war, in Berlin the S-Bahn and U-Bahn
>>>> networks were separated by the politics rather than by purpose: S-Bahn
>>>> was run by East Berlin,
>>>
>>> Deutsche Reichsbahn operated Berlin S-Bahn on each side, AIUI.
>>>
>>> U-Bahn was run by West Berlin (as such, S-Bahn
>>>> took on underground-like tasks inside east Berlin).
>>>
>>> I thought that local agencies operated the U-Bahn networks on their
>>> respective sides.
>>>
>>
>> I don’t think the U-Bahn in the east was operated by the western
>> authorities. I remember using an eastern U-Bahn - the ticket machine was
>> operated by inserting a 20 pfennig coin and turning a handle. When I did
>> this about a foot length of tickets emerged. I carefully tore off one and
>> left the rest, fearing it was possibly set up to entrap westerners. On
>> the
>> subsequent trip the train ran through the tunnel with one of the doors
>> wide
>> open. So I think it highly unlikely that a western operator would allow
>> this to happen.
>>
>> And yes, the S-Bahn in the west was operated by the east. The west local
>> population largely boycotted the system.
>>
>
> According to Brian Hardy's book on the Berlin U-Bahn the east and west
> sections of the system were administered separately. The U-Bahn is also
> two different systems, one with a larger permitted profile than the
> other. The larger was almost completely confined to West Berlin.
>
I believe that there were but two lines in East Berlin.