On 30/01/2022 00:29, hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
> On 29/01/2022 21:08, Graeme Wall wrote:
>> On 29/01/2022 20:45, hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>>> On 29/01/2022 13:24, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>> On 29/01/2022 09:01, Tweed wrote:
>>>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> On 28/01/2022 10:07, Rolf Mantel wrote:
>>>>>>> Am 28.01.2022 um 06:31 schrieb Anna Noyd-Dryver:
>>>>>>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 27/01/2022 23:08, hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 27/01/2022 16:45, Bob wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2022-01-27 16:16:36 +0000, hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk said:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 27/01/2022 08:19, Bob wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2022-01-26 21:45:23 +0000, Recliner said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 26/01/2022 10:10, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 21:35:13 -0000 (UTC)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/01/2022 16:30, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-60085498
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The presenter in the video said that he could not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> indicate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exactly when
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it would open, though perhaps somebody here is a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the know
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on a tentative opening day?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As I said previously, they're aiming for March,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> subject to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> successfully
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> completing the various emergency and evacuation drills.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The irony of course is that its probably not really
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> needed now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if WFH continues
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to any great extent beyond covid.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One question no one has answered - does it count as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> part of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the underground?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's been answered many times: No, and not LO either.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Despite
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the name,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's regarded as a network in its own right, at the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same level
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as LU, LO
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the DLR. At stations like Stratford, you will see
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> roundels
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for each of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> More like RER, IMHO.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, it's similar to the RER.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Reminds me of a German S-Bahn.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, they're main line trains; S-Bahn trains are more lightly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> constructed,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and often third rail.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> S-Bahn is more of a branding exercise than a meaningful
>>>>>>>>>>>>> technical
>>>>>>>>>>>>> definition. > In most places, S-Bahn branding is applied to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> urban
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> suburban rail services in a city or metropolitan area that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> are, in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> technical terms, simply normal mainline railway trains,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> operating on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> shared infrastructure with the mainline network.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> There is PATH in New York City and PATCO in Philadelphia,
>>>>>>>>>>>> which are
>>>>>>>>>>>> S-Bahns as it crosses certain borders, yet stay relatively
>>>>>>>>>>>> close to
>>>>>>>>>>>> their centres, such as what we might see in Germany as well
>>>>>>>>>>>> as here.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> In Philadelphia, I would regard the SEPTA heavy rail as more
>>>>>>>>>>> akin to
>>>>>>>>>>> an S-Bahn than the PATCO, which is essentailly a fully
>>>>>>>>>>> segregated
>>>>>>>>>>> metro.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> SEPTA Regional Rail is most definitely commuter, while the
>>>>>>>>>> Norristown
>>>>>>>>>> Line is still an Interurban.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Philadelphia has its own subway system, the Broad Street Line
>>>>>>>>>> and the
>>>>>>>>>> Market-Frankford Line, in addition to PATCO.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You need to be careful with the term commuter rail in a North
>>>>>>>>>>> American
>>>>>>>>>>> context, as that often is used for systems that are peak
>>>>>>>>>>> hours one way
>>>>>>>>>>> only (so trains operate from suburbs to the city in the
>>>>>>>>>>> morning and
>>>>>>>>>>> from the city to the suburs in the evening, with no other
>>>>>>>>>>> service).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Huh?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Metro-North, SEPTA Regional Rail, New Jersey Transit, MBTA
>>>>>>>>>> Commuter
>>>>>>>>>> Rail, the Long Island Rail Road and even CT Rail's Shore Line
>>>>>>>>>> East run
>>>>>>>>>> in both directions off-peak as well as in peak. In fact, some
>>>>>>>>>> of these
>>>>>>>>>> services run almost around the clock, if not around the clock.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There is also such a thing as reverse commuting.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yes, there were some lines that limited their services to
>>>>>>>>>> peak, such as
>>>>>>>>>> CT Rail Shore Line East, and NJT/Metro-North's Pascack Valley
>>>>>>>>>> Line, but
>>>>>>>>>> they've pretty much gone full time.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> MARC does not run weekend service into West Virginia, IIRC.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> In terms of what is and is not an S-Bahn, there is no clear
>>>>>>>>>>> definition
>>>>>>>>>>> as different cities use the term for different things, from
>>>>>>>>>>> Berlin
>>>>>>>>>>> where it is practically a metro, to somewhere like Dresden
>>>>>>>>>>> where it is
>>>>>>>>>>> little more than branding applied to conventional suburban
>>>>>>>>>>> services.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> In Berlin and Hamburg
>>>>>>>>>>>>> they use 3rd rail electrification that is otherwise
>>>>>>>>>>>>> non-standard,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and largely on dedicated lines, but the actual technical
>>>>>>>>>>>>> standards
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to which the trains are built are still UIC compliant.  In
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> sense Overground
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't know what Overground is, to be honest. It seems to
>>>>>>>>>>>> be a cross
>>>>>>>>>>>> between S-Bahn and RER service, combined with seating from
>>>>>>>>>>>> South
>>>>>>>>>>>> Africa's Metrorail services.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What distinction are you drawing between S-Bahn and RER?
>>>>>>>>>>> Asside from
>>>>>>>>>>> one being in Paris, and the others being in German speaking
>>>>>>>>>>> countries,
>>>>>>>>>>> they are functionally interchangable, with for example, the
>>>>>>>>>>> Munich
>>>>>>>>>>> S-Bahn being basically the same in concept as the RER.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and Crossrail are both S-Bahn in concept, as is the Paris RER.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I consider Crossrail, Thameslink and Moscow's MTsK as well
>>>>>>>>>>>> as the new
>>>>>>>>>>>> MTsD to be closer to RER.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That begs the question of what distinction you are drawing
>>>>>>>>>>> between
>>>>>>>>>>> S-Bahn and RER.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> S-Bahn I normally associate with third-rail, metro-type service,
>>>>>>>>>> whereas
>>>>>>>>>> RER is more OHLE, with higher speeds.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Having said that, I realise that the Vienna S-Bahn is likely
>>>>>>>>>> closer
>>>>>>>>>> to RER.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I just realised that S-Bahn in Vienna means Schnellbahn,
>>>>>>>>> compared with
>>>>>>>>> Germany, where it means Stadtbahn
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The S-Bahn brand was invented in Berlin with the meaning of
>>>>>>> "Schnellbahn".  During the cold war, in Berlin the S-Bahn and U-Bahn
>>>>>>> networks were separated by the politics rather than by purpose:
>>>>>>> S-Bahn
>>>>>>> was run by East Berlin,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Deutsche Reichsbahn operated Berlin S-Bahn on each side, AIUI.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> U-Bahn was run by West Berlin (as such, S-Bahn
>>>>>>> took on underground-like tasks inside east Berlin).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I thought that local agencies operated the U-Bahn networks on their
>>>>>> respective sides.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I don’t think the U-Bahn in the east was operated by the western
>>>>> authorities. I remember using an eastern U-Bahn - the ticket
>>>>> machine was
>>>>> operated by inserting a 20 pfennig coin and turning a handle. When
>>>>> I did
>>>>> this about a foot length of tickets emerged. I carefully tore off
>>>>> one and
>>>>> left the rest, fearing it was possibly set up to entrap westerners.
>>>>> On the
>>>>> subsequent trip the train ran through the tunnel with one of the
>>>>> doors wide
>>>>> open. So I think it highly unlikely that a western operator would
>>>>> allow
>>>>> this to happen.
>>>>>
>>>>> And yes, the S-Bahn in the west was operated by the east. The west
>>>>> local
>>>>> population largely boycotted the system.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> According to Brian Hardy's book on the Berlin U-Bahn the east and
>>>> west sections of the system were administered separately. The U-Bahn
>>>> is also two different systems, one with a larger permitted profile
>>>> than the other. The larger was almost completely confined to West
>>>> Berlin.
>>>>
>>> I believe that there were but two lines in East Berlin.
>>
>> Two that passed through part of East Berlin then back into the west,
>> these were the ones that had the sealed stations in the east. Two
>> other lines terminated in the east and those ends were abandoned when
>> the border was closed.
>>
>
> I meant two U-Bahn Lines that were in East Berlin, not the ones that
> passed through.

Line A, small profile, was split into two halves, east and west with no
through running. Line G, large profile, was wholly in East Berlin.

--
Graeme Wall
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