Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 29/01/2022 21:13, Tweed wrote:
>>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On 29/01/2022 09:01, Tweed wrote:
>>>>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 28/01/2022 10:07, Rolf Mantel wrote:
>>>>>>>> Am 28.01.2022 um 06:31 schrieb Anna Noyd-Dryver:
>>>>>>>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 27/01/2022 23:08, hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 27/01/2022 16:45, Bob wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2022-01-27 16:16:36 +0000, hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 27/01/2022 08:19, Bob wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2022-01-26 21:45:23 +0000, Recliner said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 26/01/2022 10:10, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 21:35:13 -0000 (UTC)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/01/2022 16:30, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-60085498
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The presenter in the video said that he could not indicate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exactly when
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it would open, though perhaps somebody here is a little more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the know
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on a tentative opening day?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As I said previously, they're aiming for March, subject to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> successfully
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> completing the various emergency and evacuation drills.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The irony of course is that its probably not really needed now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if WFH continues
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to any great extent beyond covid.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One question no one has answered - does it count as part of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the underground?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's been answered many times: No, and not LO either. Despite
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the name,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's regarded as a network in its own right, at the same level
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as LU, LO
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the DLR. At stations like Stratford, you will see roundels
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for each of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> More like RER, IMHO.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, it's similar to the RER.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Reminds me of a German S-Bahn.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, they're main line trains; S-Bahn trains are more lightly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> constructed,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and often third rail.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> S-Bahn is more of a branding exercise than a meaningful technical
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> definition. > In most places, S-Bahn branding is applied to urban
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> suburban rail services in a city or metropolitan area that are, in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> technical terms, simply normal mainline railway trains, operating on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shared infrastructure with the mainline network.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is PATH in New York City and PATCO in Philadelphia, which are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> S-Bahns as it crosses certain borders, yet stay relatively close to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> their centres, such as what we might see in Germany as well as here.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> In Philadelphia, I would regard the SEPTA heavy rail as more akin to
>>>>>>>>>>>> an S-Bahn than the PATCO, which is essentailly a fully segregated
>>>>>>>>>>>> metro.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> SEPTA Regional Rail is most definitely commuter, while the Norristown
>>>>>>>>>>> Line is still an Interurban.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Philadelphia has its own subway system, the Broad Street Line and the
>>>>>>>>>>> Market-Frankford Line, in addition to PATCO.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You need to be careful with the term commuter rail in a North American
>>>>>>>>>>>> context, as that often is used for systems that are peak hours one way
>>>>>>>>>>>> only (so trains operate from suburbs to the city in the morning and
>>>>>>>>>>>> from the city to the suburs in the evening, with no other service).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Huh?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Metro-North, SEPTA Regional Rail, New Jersey Transit, MBTA Commuter
>>>>>>>>>>> Rail, the Long Island Rail Road and even CT Rail's Shore Line East run
>>>>>>>>>>> in both directions off-peak as well as in peak. In fact, some of these
>>>>>>>>>>> services run almost around the clock, if not around the clock.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> There is also such a thing as reverse commuting.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, there were some lines that limited their services to peak, such as
>>>>>>>>>>> CT Rail Shore Line East, and NJT/Metro-North's Pascack Valley Line, but
>>>>>>>>>>> they've pretty much gone full time.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> MARC does not run weekend service into West Virginia, IIRC.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> In terms of what is and is not an S-Bahn, there is no clear definition
>>>>>>>>>>>> as different cities use the term for different things, from Berlin
>>>>>>>>>>>> where it is practically a metro, to somewhere like Dresden where it is
>>>>>>>>>>>> little more than branding applied to conventional suburban services.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> In Berlin and Hamburg
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they use 3rd rail electrification that is otherwise non-standard,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and largely on dedicated lines, but the actual technical standards
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to which the trains are built are still UIC compliant.  In that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sense Overground
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't know what Overground is, to be honest. It seems to be a cross
>>>>>>>>>>>>> between S-Bahn and RER service, combined with seating from South
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Africa's Metrorail services.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> What distinction are you drawing between S-Bahn and RER?  Asside from
>>>>>>>>>>>> one being in Paris, and the others being in German speaking countries,
>>>>>>>>>>>> they are functionally interchangable, with for example, the Munich
>>>>>>>>>>>> S-Bahn being basically the same in concept as the RER.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and Crossrail are both S-Bahn in concept, as is the Paris RER.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I consider Crossrail, Thameslink and Moscow's MTsK as well as the new
>>>>>>>>>>>>> MTsD to be closer to RER.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> That begs the question of what distinction you are drawing between
>>>>>>>>>>>> S-Bahn and RER.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> S-Bahn I normally associate with third-rail, metro-type service,
>>>>>>>>>>> whereas
>>>>>>>>>>> RER is more OHLE, with higher speeds.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Having said that, I realise that the Vienna S-Bahn is likely closer
>>>>>>>>>>> to RER.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I just realised that S-Bahn in Vienna means Schnellbahn, compared with
>>>>>>>>>> Germany, where it means Stadtbahn
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The S-Bahn brand was invented in Berlin with the meaning of
>>>>>>>> "Schnellbahn".  During the cold war, in Berlin the S-Bahn and U-Bahn
>>>>>>>> networks were separated by the politics rather than by purpose: S-Bahn
>>>>>>>> was run by East Berlin,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Deutsche Reichsbahn operated Berlin S-Bahn on each side, AIUI.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> U-Bahn was run by West Berlin (as such, S-Bahn
>>>>>>>> took on underground-like tasks inside east Berlin).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I thought that local agencies operated the U-Bahn networks on their
>>>>>>> respective sides.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don’t think the U-Bahn in the east was operated by the western
>>>>>> authorities.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's what I said.
>>>>>
>>>>> I remember using an eastern U-Bahn - the ticket machine was
>>>>>> operated by inserting a 20 pfennig coin and turning a handle. When I did
>>>>>> this about a foot length of tickets emerged. I carefully tore off one and
>>>>>> left the rest, fearing it was possibly set up to entrap westerners.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why would they try to "entrap westerners," using that method?
>>>>>> And yes, the S-Bahn in the west was operated by the east. The west local
>>>>>> population largely boycotted the system.
>>>>>
>>>>> I know.
>>>>>
>>>>> The fare was 30 pfennig in West Berlin and 30 ostpfennig in East Berlin.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sorry I misunderstood your original point about ownership.
>>>>
>>>> Entrapment was a fear. On the transit motorways they invented many methods
>>>> of extracting fines. Sudden reductions in speed limits for spurious
>>>> roadworks with a police car on attendance. Making it illegal to move into
>>>> the faster lane to allow space for a car joining the motorway from a slip
>>>> road.
>>>
>>> I heard about entrapment by the VoPo on the border and on the autobahn
>>> corridor between Inner German border and West Berlin.
>>>
>>> I also know that it would cost DM5 to cross from West Berlin to East Berlin.
>>>
>>> But entrapment on the U-Bahn over a 20 ostpfennig ticket? I think that's
>>> reaching.
>>>
>>
>> Maybe, but I didn’t want to risk being the source of hard currency for a
>> fine.
>>
>> After my day in East Berlin I couldn’t find anything to spend the residue
>> of my 25 Ost Marks I was forced to change on the way over. It’s the only
>> time I’ve put money in a litter bin.
>>
>
> I think the more typical use was to buy music (presumably cassettes back
> then).
>
>

Not enough residue. Managed to spend some of it on a meal - went to a
peoples restaurant at the far end of the tram line (the day visa did not
allow travel beyond the city boundary) to see what things were like beyond
the central part where great efforts had been made to make things looks as
affluent as the west. Said restaurant had an impressive menu until you
tried to order. It soon transpired it was a work of fiction and most items
were not available. Managed to waste a bit more on some ice cream and
coffees. That trip and some visits in recent years to museums of communism
in other former eastern bloc countries have made me very wary of the left
who claim to want to do things for the good of the working person.