On 30/01/2022 08:23, Tweed wrote:
> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 29/01/2022 21:13, Tweed wrote:
>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 29/01/2022 09:01, Tweed wrote:
>>>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> On 28/01/2022 10:07, Rolf Mantel wrote:
>>>>>>> Am 28.01.2022 um 06:31 schrieb Anna Noyd-Dryver:
>>>>>>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 27/01/2022 23:08, hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 27/01/2022 16:45, Bob wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2022-01-27 16:16:36 +0000, hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk said:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 27/01/2022 08:19, Bob wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2022-01-26 21:45:23 +0000, Recliner said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 26/01/2022 10:10, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 21:35:13 -0000 (UTC)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/01/2022 16:30, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-60085498
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The presenter in the video said that he could not indicate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exactly when
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it would open, though perhaps somebody here is a little more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the know
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on a tentative opening day?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As I said previously, they're aiming for March, subject to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> successfully
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> completing the various emergency and evacuation drills.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The irony of course is that its probably not really needed now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if WFH continues
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to any great extent beyond covid.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One question no one has answered - does it count as part of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the underground?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's been answered many times: No, and not LO either. Despite
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the name,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's regarded as a network in its own right, at the same level
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as LU, LO
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the DLR. At stations like Stratford, you will see roundels
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for each of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> More like RER, IMHO.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, it's similar to the RER.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Reminds me of a German S-Bahn.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, they're main line trains; S-Bahn trains are more lightly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> constructed,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and often third rail.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> S-Bahn is more of a branding exercise than a meaningful technical
>>>>>>>>>>>>> definition. > In most places, S-Bahn branding is applied to urban
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> suburban rail services in a city or metropolitan area that are, in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> technical terms, simply normal mainline railway trains, operating on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> shared infrastructure with the mainline network.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> There is PATH in New York City and PATCO in Philadelphia, which are
>>>>>>>>>>>> S-Bahns as it crosses certain borders, yet stay relatively close to
>>>>>>>>>>>> their centres, such as what we might see in Germany as well as here.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> In Philadelphia, I would regard the SEPTA heavy rail as more akin to
>>>>>>>>>>> an S-Bahn than the PATCO, which is essentailly a fully segregated
>>>>>>>>>>> metro.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> SEPTA Regional Rail is most definitely commuter, while the Norristown
>>>>>>>>>> Line is still an Interurban.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Philadelphia has its own subway system, the Broad Street Line and the
>>>>>>>>>> Market-Frankford Line, in addition to PATCO.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You need to be careful with the term commuter rail in a North American
>>>>>>>>>>> context, as that often is used for systems that are peak hours one way
>>>>>>>>>>> only (so trains operate from suburbs to the city in the morning and
>>>>>>>>>>> from the city to the suburs in the evening, with no other service).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Huh?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Metro-North, SEPTA Regional Rail, New Jersey Transit, MBTA Commuter
>>>>>>>>>> Rail, the Long Island Rail Road and even CT Rail's Shore Line East run
>>>>>>>>>> in both directions off-peak as well as in peak. In fact, some of these
>>>>>>>>>> services run almost around the clock, if not around the clock.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There is also such a thing as reverse commuting.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yes, there were some lines that limited their services to peak, such as
>>>>>>>>>> CT Rail Shore Line East, and NJT/Metro-North's Pascack Valley Line, but
>>>>>>>>>> they've pretty much gone full time.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> MARC does not run weekend service into West Virginia, IIRC.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> In terms of what is and is not an S-Bahn, there is no clear definition
>>>>>>>>>>> as different cities use the term for different things, from Berlin
>>>>>>>>>>> where it is practically a metro, to somewhere like Dresden where it is
>>>>>>>>>>> little more than branding applied to conventional suburban services.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> In Berlin and Hamburg
>>>>>>>>>>>>> they use 3rd rail electrification that is otherwise non-standard,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and largely on dedicated lines, but the actual technical standards
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to which the trains are built are still UIC compliant.  In that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> sense Overground
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't know what Overground is, to be honest. It seems to be a cross
>>>>>>>>>>>> between S-Bahn and RER service, combined with seating from South
>>>>>>>>>>>> Africa's Metrorail services.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What distinction are you drawing between S-Bahn and RER?  Asside from
>>>>>>>>>>> one being in Paris, and the others being in German speaking countries,
>>>>>>>>>>> they are functionally interchangable, with for example, the Munich
>>>>>>>>>>> S-Bahn being basically the same in concept as the RER.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and Crossrail are both S-Bahn in concept, as is the Paris RER.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I consider Crossrail, Thameslink and Moscow's MTsK as well as the new
>>>>>>>>>>>> MTsD to be closer to RER.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That begs the question of what distinction you are drawing between
>>>>>>>>>>> S-Bahn and RER.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> S-Bahn I normally associate with third-rail, metro-type service,
>>>>>>>>>> whereas
>>>>>>>>>> RER is more OHLE, with higher speeds.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Having said that, I realise that the Vienna S-Bahn is likely closer
>>>>>>>>>> to RER.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I just realised that S-Bahn in Vienna means Schnellbahn, compared with
>>>>>>>>> Germany, where it means Stadtbahn
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The S-Bahn brand was invented in Berlin with the meaning of
>>>>>>> "Schnellbahn".  During the cold war, in Berlin the S-Bahn and U-Bahn
>>>>>>> networks were separated by the politics rather than by purpose: S-Bahn
>>>>>>> was run by East Berlin,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Deutsche Reichsbahn operated Berlin S-Bahn on each side, AIUI.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> U-Bahn was run by West Berlin (as such, S-Bahn
>>>>>>> took on underground-like tasks inside east Berlin).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I thought that local agencies operated the U-Bahn networks on their
>>>>>> respective sides.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I don’t think the U-Bahn in the east was operated by the western
>>>>> authorities.
>>>>
>>>> That's what I said.
>>>>
>>>> I remember using an eastern U-Bahn - the ticket machine was
>>>>> operated by inserting a 20 pfennig coin and turning a handle. When I did
>>>>> this about a foot length of tickets emerged. I carefully tore off one and
>>>>> left the rest, fearing it was possibly set up to entrap westerners.
>>>>
>>>> Why would they try to "entrap westerners," using that method?
>>>>> And yes, the S-Bahn in the west was operated by the east. The west local
>>>>> population largely boycotted the system.
>>>>
>>>> I know.
>>>>
>>>> The fare was 30 pfennig in West Berlin and 30 ostpfennig in East Berlin.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Sorry I misunderstood your original point about ownership.
>>>
>>> Entrapment was a fear. On the transit motorways they invented many methods
>>> of extracting fines. Sudden reductions in speed limits for spurious
>>> roadworks with a police car on attendance. Making it illegal to move into
>>> the faster lane to allow space for a car joining the motorway from a slip
>>> road.
>>
>> I heard about entrapment by the VoPo on the border and on the autobahn
>> corridor between Inner German border and West Berlin.
>>
>> I also know that it would cost DM5 to cross from West Berlin to East Berlin.
>>
>> But entrapment on the U-Bahn over a 20 ostpfennig ticket? I think that's
>> reaching.
>>
>
> Maybe, but I didn’t want to risk being the source of hard currency for a
> fine.
>
> After my day in East Berlin I couldn’t find anything to spend the residue
> of my 25 Ost Marks I was forced to change on the way over. It’s the only
> time I’ve put money in a litter bin.
>
Or you could have kept it as a souvenir.