On 30/01/2022 16:50, hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
> On 30/01/2022 09:30, Graeme Wall wrote:
>> On 30/01/2022 00:29, hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>>> On 29/01/2022 21:08, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>> On 29/01/2022 20:45, hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>>>>> On 29/01/2022 13:24, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>>> On 29/01/2022 09:01, Tweed wrote:
>>>>>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 28/01/2022 10:07, Rolf Mantel wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Am 28.01.2022 um 06:31 schrieb Anna Noyd-Dryver:
>>>>>>>>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 27/01/2022 23:08, hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 27/01/2022 16:45, Bob wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2022-01-27 16:16:36 +0000, hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 27/01/2022 08:19, Bob wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2022-01-26 21:45:23 +0000, Recliner said:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 26/01/2022 10:10, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 21:35:13 -0000 (UTC)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25/01/2022 16:30, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-60085498
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The presenter in the video said that he could not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> indicate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exactly when
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it would open, though perhaps somebody here is a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the know
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on a tentative opening day?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As I said previously, they're aiming for March,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> subject to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> successfully
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> completing the various emergency and evacuation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> drills.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The irony of course is that its probably not really
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> needed now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if WFH continues
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to any great extent beyond covid.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One question no one has answered - does it count as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> part of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the underground?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's been answered many times: No, and not LO
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> either. Despite
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the name,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's regarded as a network in its own right, at the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same level
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as LU, LO
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the DLR. At stations like Stratford, you will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see roundels
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for each of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> More like RER, IMHO.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, it's similar to the RER.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Reminds me of a German S-Bahn.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, they're main line trains; S-Bahn trains are more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lightly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> constructed,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and often third rail.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> S-Bahn is more of a branding exercise than a meaningful
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> technical
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> definition. > In most places, S-Bahn branding is applied
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to urban
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> suburban rail services in a city or metropolitan area
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that are, in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> technical terms, simply normal mainline railway trains,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> operating on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shared infrastructure with the mainline network.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is PATH in New York City and PATCO in Philadelphia,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> S-Bahns as it crosses certain borders, yet stay relatively
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> close to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their centres, such as what we might see in Germany as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> well as here.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> In Philadelphia, I would regard the SEPTA heavy rail as
>>>>>>>>>>>>> more akin to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> an S-Bahn than the PATCO, which is essentailly a fully
>>>>>>>>>>>>> segregated
>>>>>>>>>>>>> metro.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> SEPTA Regional Rail is most definitely commuter, while the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Norristown
>>>>>>>>>>>> Line is still an Interurban.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Philadelphia has its own subway system, the Broad Street
>>>>>>>>>>>> Line and the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Market-Frankford Line, in addition to PATCO.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You need to be careful with the term commuter rail in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> North American
>>>>>>>>>>>>> context, as that often is used for systems that are peak
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hours one way
>>>>>>>>>>>>> only (so trains operate from suburbs to the city in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> morning and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> from the city to the suburs in the evening, with no other
>>>>>>>>>>>>> service).
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Huh?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Metro-North, SEPTA Regional Rail, New Jersey Transit, MBTA
>>>>>>>>>>>> Commuter
>>>>>>>>>>>> Rail, the Long Island Rail Road and even CT Rail's Shore
>>>>>>>>>>>> Line East run
>>>>>>>>>>>> in both directions off-peak as well as in peak. In fact,
>>>>>>>>>>>> some of these
>>>>>>>>>>>> services run almost around the clock, if not around the clock.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> There is also such a thing as reverse commuting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, there were some lines that limited their services to
>>>>>>>>>>>> peak, such as
>>>>>>>>>>>> CT Rail Shore Line East, and NJT/Metro-North's Pascack
>>>>>>>>>>>> Valley Line, but
>>>>>>>>>>>> they've pretty much gone full time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> MARC does not run weekend service into West Virginia, IIRC.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> In terms of what is and is not an S-Bahn, there is no clear
>>>>>>>>>>>>> definition
>>>>>>>>>>>>> as different cities use the term for different things, from
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Berlin
>>>>>>>>>>>>> where it is practically a metro, to somewhere like Dresden
>>>>>>>>>>>>> where it is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> little more than branding applied to conventional suburban
>>>>>>>>>>>>> services.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In Berlin and Hamburg
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they use 3rd rail electrification that is otherwise
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> non-standard,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and largely on dedicated lines, but the actual technical
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> standards
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to which the trains are built are still UIC compliant.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sense Overground
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't know what Overground is, to be honest. It seems to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be a cross
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> between S-Bahn and RER service, combined with seating from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> South
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Africa's Metrorail services.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> What distinction are you drawing between S-Bahn and RER?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Asside from
>>>>>>>>>>>>> one being in Paris, and the others being in German speaking
>>>>>>>>>>>>> countries,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> they are functionally interchangable, with for example, the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Munich
>>>>>>>>>>>>> S-Bahn being basically the same in concept as the RER.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and Crossrail are both S-Bahn in concept, as is the Paris
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> RER.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I consider Crossrail, Thameslink and Moscow's MTsK as well
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as the new
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MTsD to be closer to RER.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> That begs the question of what distinction you are drawing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> between
>>>>>>>>>>>>> S-Bahn and RER.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> S-Bahn I normally associate with third-rail, metro-type
>>>>>>>>>>>> service,
>>>>>>>>>>>> whereas
>>>>>>>>>>>> RER is more OHLE, with higher speeds.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Having said that, I realise that the Vienna S-Bahn is likely
>>>>>>>>>>>> closer
>>>>>>>>>>>> to RER.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I just realised that S-Bahn in Vienna means Schnellbahn,
>>>>>>>>>>> compared with
>>>>>>>>>>> Germany, where it means Stadtbahn
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The S-Bahn brand was invented in Berlin with the meaning of
>>>>>>>>> "Schnellbahn".  During the cold war, in Berlin the S-Bahn and
>>>>>>>>> U-Bahn
>>>>>>>>> networks were separated by the politics rather than by purpose:
>>>>>>>>> S-Bahn
>>>>>>>>> was run by East Berlin,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Deutsche Reichsbahn operated Berlin S-Bahn on each side, AIUI.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> U-Bahn was run by West Berlin (as such, S-Bahn
>>>>>>>>> took on underground-like tasks inside east Berlin).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I thought that local agencies operated the U-Bahn networks on their
>>>>>>>> respective sides.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don’t think the U-Bahn in the east was operated by the western
>>>>>>> authorities. I remember using an eastern U-Bahn - the ticket
>>>>>>> machine was
>>>>>>> operated by inserting a 20 pfennig coin and turning a handle.
>>>>>>> When I did
>>>>>>> this about a foot length of tickets emerged. I carefully tore off
>>>>>>> one and
>>>>>>> left the rest, fearing it was possibly set up to entrap
>>>>>>> westerners. On the
>>>>>>> subsequent trip the train ran through the tunnel with one of the
>>>>>>> doors wide
>>>>>>> open. So I think it highly unlikely that a western operator would
>>>>>>> allow
>>>>>>> this to happen.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And yes, the S-Bahn in the west was operated by the east. The
>>>>>>> west local
>>>>>>> population largely boycotted the system.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> According to Brian Hardy's book on the Berlin U-Bahn the east and
>>>>>> west sections of the system were administered separately. The
>>>>>> U-Bahn is also two different systems, one with a larger permitted
>>>>>> profile than the other. The larger was almost completely confined
>>>>>> to West Berlin.
>>>>>>
>>>>> I believe that there were but two lines in East Berlin.
>>>>
>>>> Two that passed through part of East Berlin then back into the west,
>>>> these were the ones that had the sealed stations in the east. Two
>>>> other lines terminated in the east and those ends were abandoned
>>>> when the border was closed.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I meant two U-Bahn Lines that were in East Berlin, not the ones that
>>> passed through.
>>
>> Line A, small profile, was split into two halves, east and west with
>> no through running. Line G, large profile, was wholly in East Berlin.
>>
> Line G is now U5, correct?

Sorry, Line E was wholly in East Berlin (typo on my part) and did become
U5 on reunification., Line G was wholly in West Berlin and opened just
after the wall went up. It became U9.

--
Graeme Wall
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