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Re: Why did HM wear yellow, not purple? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 1 Day 22 Hours ago by: Recliner

Thanks, found it in the Peterborough column, which I don't normally read. <https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/05/20/kenneth-branagh-gets-part-lifetime/>

Re: Why did HM wear yellow, not purple? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 1 Day 22 Hours ago by: Mark Bestley

And boringly there is a fashion reason for the yellow dress. from the Telegraph. "In fact, the colour was deliberately selected because it is the exact opposite to purple on a colour wheel and therefore its complementary colour pairing.

Re: Why did HM wear yellow, not purple? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 4 Days 9 Hours ago by: Recliner

Ah, I'd not seen that.

Re: Why did HM wear yellow, not purple? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 4 Days 9 Hours ago by: Mark Bestley

Other papers https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/royal-family/does-queen-support-ukraine-dress-b2080858.html noted that apart from the yellow dress the other colour she wore was blue.

Re: Phantom bus service? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 4 Days 11 Hours ago by: MikeS

Mystery solved. Its a Lidl shuttle between Surbiton Station and their new Tolworth HQ. Runs all day but still empty for most trips.

Secrets of the London Underground

uk.transport.london

Posted: 5 Days 4 Hours ago by: Muttley

Watched an episode of this series where they went down the W&C. According to a worker they interviewed in the depot it runs on 750V. He didn't say whether that was the feed voltage or the traction voltage however. Anyone know? I'd be surpri

Re: Why did HM wear yellow, not purple? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 5 Days 5 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

"Dressed in a Circle line yellow," Maybe she didn't get the memo about the purple?

Re: Why did HM wear yellow, not purple? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 5 Days 6 Hours ago by: Recliner

Why did HM wear yellow, not purple? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-61465207

Re: Where are you going on 24th May? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 5 Days 6 Hours ago by: Recliner

The TfL Rail signs looked permanent, as do the new Elizabeth Line signs. So it's not just a case of pulling off a sticker.

Re: Where are you going on 24th May? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 5 Days 8 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

If they've not managed to fit them all, after years of delay, then there's no hope!

Re: Where are you going on 24th May? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 5 Days 11 Hours ago by: Recliner

I wouldn't have thought so. My guess is that it's expected to take quite a few days to fit or uncover all the Elizabeth Line signs, and they aim to complete the task by next Tuesday, which means starting early.

Re: Where are you going on 24th May? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 5 Days 14 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

I'm wondering if the date set for that was the timetable change (see my earlier posting about 'Farringdon - Elizabeth Line' appearing in an OJP).

Re: Where are you going on 24th May? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 5 Days 21 Hours ago by: Recliner

On my way home by road from Heathrow today I passed Hayes & Harlington station and was surprised to see that the purple bulls-eyes already said Elizabeth Line. I didn't think it would have happened so early.

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 6 Days 11 Hours ago by: Recliner

Only southbound. Your hypothesis doesn't agree with any factual source.

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 6 Days 13 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

I'm prepared to go and check reality, when the opportunity arises. However the TfL avoiding-stairs-tube-guide says it's stair-free, and I assume that counts as "official". That's possible, from TfL's 3D map - if the flight of eight is

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 6 Days 13 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

My usual travel bag is a flexi IATA-max carry-on (the basic frame is slightly shallower because some airlines don't allow the full size, but it has zipper-bellows for extra capacity on airlines which do). It's got two wheels and is eas

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 7 Days 2 Hours ago by: Recliner

Yes, I'm currently travelling with something very similar. It's no problem on escalators.

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 7 Days 3 Hours ago by: Graeme Wall

Mine has 4 wheels at one end and a handle at the other, plus a hande on the side for conventional carrying. Takes up about the same space on an escalator step as I do.

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 7 Days 3 Hours ago by: Recliner

No, all the official information and the app agree. You're the one in conflict with reality. From the concourse at the bottom of the Bakerloo line escalators, down 18 steps to pass under the southbound platform tunnel, then 8 up to the

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 7 Days 4 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

There isn't a symbol for "access to only some of the platforms"*, and so would fail as useful advice if it turned out to be only some of them. Apart from the situation I recount above *. That makes even less sense; on TfL's 3D maps t

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 7 Days 5 Hours ago by: Recliner

No, it means it's only step-free southbound. There's no conflict in the information provided. Why do you think it's two flights? Hint: they're not in the same direction.

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 7 Days 9 Hours ago by: Theo

Assuming it has wheels, and they are appropriately located. For example, one of mine has wheels on the short edge and you wheel it via a handle on the opposite short corner. That's fine for dragging around but if you drag it on an escal

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 7 Days 12 Hours ago by: Graeme Wall

Ah, missed the pedantry, generic carrying, actually most of the time towing. I can physically carry it up and down stairs,

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 7 Days 12 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

It has the Bakerloo station as half-blue/half-red. Which means "Escalator and lift access between street and platform", viz: no stairs. The adjacent Northern Line platform has stairs down to the island platform concourse on the 3D ma

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 7 Days 12 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

Because wheelchairs and baby buggies don't go up and down escalators easily.

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 7 Days 12 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

There can be a certain amount of" tugging off the end of" escalators, where weight can matter for people with mobility/back issues. A 50lb checked-baggage suitcase will normally take up the whole width, which annoys Londoners.

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 7 Days 12 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

There's signage at Kings Cross saying don't use the escalators up to the food-court mezzanine with luggage. I've managed to take two full-size (50lb) wheeled suitcases on TfL escalators, but it takes practice, and I'm sure the managem

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 7 Days 22 Hours ago by: Recliner

But why carry it? Use the wheels to roll it on/off. No lifting or carrying needed.

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 7 Days 23 Hours ago by: Graeme Wall

Because that is what I will have with me!

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 7 Days 23 Hours ago by: Recliner

Actually, it says the opposite: https://content.tfl.gov.uk/avoiding-stairs-tube-guide.pdf A short ramp could not replace 11 steps.

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 7 Days 23 Hours ago by: Recliner

Yes, I do the same with no problems. There's no lifting or climbing required, so it doesn't matter if the case is heavy.

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 7 Days 23 Hours ago by: Recliner

There's no steps to climb when using a working escalator, so why is it not 'step-free'? Why would you need to carry a suitcase on an escalator? I regard escalators as fine for a single, large, wheeled large suitcase, with no need to

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 7 Days 23 Hours ago by: Graeme Wall

In this case it is a single, wheeled, suitcase that I've hauled up and down escalators many times.

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 8 Days ago by: Theo

We seem to be tying ourselves up in knots because your definition of 'step free' is different from everyone else's. Escalators aren't step-free, and there are various situations where it is not feasible to take things on them. That migh

Re: How to get to Heathrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 8 Days ago by: Recliner

Yes, sorry, I was still thinking of Kings Cross/St P.

Re: How to get to Heathrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 8 Days 2 Hours ago by: Tweed

See here https://cartometro.com/cartes/metro-tram-london/

Re: How to get to Heathrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 8 Days 2 Hours ago by: Anna Noyd-Dryver

At Baker St the Met line platforms are separate from, though adjacent to and level with, the H&C/Circle platforms. Anna Noyd-Dryver

Re: How to get to Heathrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 8 Days 3 Hours ago by: Recliner

No, the Circle, H&C and Met lines use the same tracks.

Re: How to get to Heathrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 8 Days 8 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

We'd stopped being obsessed about steps, and were looking at ways to connect the majority of pax through from Paddington area to Kings Cross (etc) with the hypothetical reversing point for the District at Baker St, not Edgware Road.

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 8 Days 9 Hours ago by: Graeme Wall

Not come across that, looks interesting. If I start using the Underground more often I will have to get a copy.

Re: How to get to Heathrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 8 Days 9 Hours ago by: Recliner

This route isn't signposted, and involves extra steps up and down. The official rout has a lift, and fewer steps anyway. Obviously not, as they share platforms.

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 8 Days 9 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

[Green Park] I see that has 3Dmaps, does the one of Waterloo have any two-stage flights down to Platform 3, unlike TfL's own maps? Perhaps he's including the ones at the top of the escalators, one of which is shorter, and has an int

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 8 Days 10 Hours ago by: Recliner

The Station Master app. I let Geoff do the stair counting.

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 8 Days 11 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

Where are you reading that from? (In particular the 3D diagrams don't have anything that's two sets, let alone as much as 26 in total)

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 8 Days 11 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

I haven't recommended that anyone wheel a suitcase down even a dozen steps. Just "one or two". No-one is disputing that. I've lost track of which route of yours that is. The "one or two" steps I have in mind are in the three cross-p

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 8 Days 12 Hours ago by: Recliner

The three staircases from cross the cross passages to platform level have 18+8, 11 and 11 steps.

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 8 Days 12 Hours ago by: Recliner

No, 19 steps. That may well be too much for someone wheeling a suitcase. As I said upthread, you can use escalators all the way to avoid all the steps. Except that the stepless route is shorter! Yes, it's very short in terms of w

Re: How to get to Heathrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 8 Days 12 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

No I haven't, and why does it matter where they are in between the eastern end of the Circle Line platforms at Kings Cross, and the classic ticket hall? They don't change the distance you need to walk. And I don' think there are any ti

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 8 Days 12 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

2 mins vs 4 mins. So that's where the literal walking time to the platforms comes in as well. It's no good if the next train is 2 mins sooner, if it took you 3 mins to extra to get to the platform. Same for the Northern Line at Kings

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 8 Days 12 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

There are escalators up from the Jubilee Line platforms to the "Middle Concourse". From there a short passage to maybe a dozen steps down to the Victoria Line platforms. Whether dozen steps is too much, is only someone who understands

Re: How to get to Heathrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 8 Days 21 Hours ago by: Recliner

You've forgotten where the ticket barriers are.

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 8 Days 21 Hours ago by: Recliner

Yes, the higher frequency of Jubilee line trains will tend to give it the advantage over the Bakerloo. The funny thing is that the lift route to the Jubilee platforms at Waterloo is quicker than the escalators.

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 8 Days 22 Hours ago by: Recliner

No need to use any stairs. The escalator route is short.

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 9 Days 3 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

I've not seen that combination. Another nudge might be to add a second "via Farringdon". My current OJP with the most levers to pull is https://trainscanbecheaper.info/default.aspx

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 9 Days 3 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

With TfL disagreeing amongst themselves, it's time for a site visit! My recollection is that the side-passage with the fewest steps was perhaps three or four. Google Maps says all the routes are pretty much the same, within a couple

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 9 Days 3 Hours ago by: Robin

My mistake.

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 9 Days 4 Hours ago by: Theo

Southwark station on the Jubilee? Not sure how that helps. I suppose you could get the Jubilee to London Bridge too if you wanted. You can of course walk between Waterloo and London Bridge, but then that's only about 20 minutes faster

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 9 Days 4 Hours ago by: Theo

That rather depends on what 'with luggage' means. eg with a large and heavy rucksack, I'd much rather a few stairs than a half-mile trek through subterranean tunnels. Even with a suitcase, lifting it on and off escalators might be easie

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 9 Days 4 Hours ago by: Graeme Wall

Due to re-open shortly I believe. In the meantime it recommends other TfL services without specifying which.

Re: How to get to Heathrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 9 Days 4 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

The steps at "B" and just to the left of "A" are at the eastern end. <https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/3d-maps-of-every-underground- station-ab-14630/> See again the steps just to the left of "A", above. See the steps in the cen

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 9 Days 4 Hours ago by: Recliner

As far as I can tell (using the TfL Journey Planner and the Station Master app)g, there isn't stair-free access to the northbound Bakerloo line at Waterloo. So the best way to get from Waterloo to Kings X with luggage is the Jubilee/Victo

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 9 Days 5 Hours ago by: Recliner

… which is currently closed.

Re: How to get to Heathrow (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 9 Days 5 Hours ago by: Recliner

I thought it was obvious: you only get to the east end of the sub-surface platforms when changing from a (deep) Tube line. If you're coming from the mainline stations or the street, you enter near the western end of the platforms. No

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 9 Days 5 Hours ago by: Graeme Wall

Routes me onto the Northern Line at London Bridge

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 9 Days 7 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

Start buying the same thing again with the routing hint of "via London Waterloo East", and confirm you can match it.

Two Elizabeth Line things

uk.transport.london

Posted: 9 Days 7 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

<https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/look-out-for-these-limited-edition -elizabeth-line-branded-oyster-cards-54606/> And... doing some mystery shopping just now I stumbled over "Thameslink - Elizabeth Line" as a station.

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 9 Days 7 Hours ago by: Graeme Wall

The latter is what I have.

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 9 Days 8 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

Easiest thing to do is try a mystery purchase from wherever you are starting, to wherever you are finishing, with a specific "via Waterloo East" [to force it *not* to suggest the tube from Waterloo to London Bridge], and see if you get re

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 9 Days 9 Hours ago by: Graeme Wall

But would it be valid on Thameslink?

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 9 Days 9 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

TfL's "avoiding stairs" guide says it is, so perhaps they've put a ramp in one of the cross-passages at the lower concourse level.

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 9 Days 9 Hours ago by: Recliner

Is it step-free to the Bakerloo Line?

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 9 Days 10 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

I think it is, because LB is a London Terminal valid via Waterloo.

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 9 Days 10 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

Down to the concourse, and back up again? Nice views as you cross the Thames. Google maps has all the routes mentioned so far bracketed with 22-25min, so the difference is going to be walking speed and platform waits.

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 9 Days 10 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

It depends a bit on whether the steps at the Waterloo end are acceptable. (I think perhaps that the further you go from the bottom of the escalators, the fewer steps the side-passages have).

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 9 Days 10 Hours ago by: Graeme Wall

The TfL website is not very helpful, depends on you first switching off all the walking/cycling/bus options and then giving the exact time.

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 9 Days 10 Hours ago by: Graeme Wall

Don't know if my ticket would be valid for that. Standard cross London "Maltese" cross. Escalators are not a problem, the case is reasonably small. Mid-morning.

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 9 Days 10 Hours ago by: Robin

it's a while since I walked from Waterloo to Southwark but it'd give me pause for thought with a suitcase

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 9 Days 10 Hours ago by: Theo

That's quite a palaver compared with Bakerloo to Oxford Circus, cross-platform, Victoria to KXSP. Possibly slower trains, but the cross platform is very easy. Maybe 20-30 metres walk (through a flat tunnel). I thought this was the 'sta

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 9 Days 11 Hours ago by: Theo

Possibly doesn't answer your question, but a new contender in this race is walking over the bridge to Waterloo East, train one stop to London Bridge, and then Thameslink northwards from there. Mostly that's of interest for destinations n

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 9 Days 11 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

The longest walk is probably Piccadilly to Jubilee, but that's not what got Green Park its reputation. But if the cross-passage under the heavy rail platforms is open, while not step-free that's by far the quickest route to tube train

Re: How to get to Heathrow (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 9 Days 11 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

Sorry, can't parse that. Neither Met or Circle are "tube lines", if you are using that expression to distinguish from Sub-surface, and in any event from the rear of a Met train heading north, to a H&S/Circle train heading west, isn't v

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 9 Days 12 Hours ago by: Graeme Wall

That is what I was remembering. Thanks for the links, knew I'd seen those diagrams but google couldn't find them.

Re: Where are you going on 24th May? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 9 Days 12 Hours ago by: Graeme Wall

Missed out on the chairlift, never visited the zoo :-)

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 9 Days 14 Hours ago by: Recliner

You've previously told us what a long walk it was from the Jubilee to Victoria platforms. And that's step-free to platform level, with a choice of lifts or escalators, and little walking.

Re: How to get to Heathrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 9 Days 14 Hours ago by: Recliner

Only if you're changing from a Tube line.

Re: Where are you going on 24th May? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 9 Days 14 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

Maybe that's what people were getting regarding the fare from the outermost metro station. If you bought such a pass (rather than just a single) it would retrospectively apply to the shuttle bus. According to Wonkypedia: "the metro,

Re: How to get to Heathrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 9 Days 14 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

Or Moorgate (see below). The extra 'convenience' of the full-circle line, which abstracts paths, rather messes up some other journey arcs. They could have mirrored Mansion House (indeed, the original Circle Line shuttled between Mans

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 9 Days 14 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

I haven't said anything yet!! One of my most common cross-London trips comprises Kings Cross to Green Park, and then Jubilee to Westminster. The historic long walk (circumvented by going up the ticket hall and back down) at Green Park i

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 9 Days 14 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

Easiest to remember: walk towards the back of the Victoria Line train. True road warrior will do that at Green Park while waiting for it to arrive.

Re: How to get to Heathrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 9 Days 14 Hours ago by: Recliner

The new platform tunnels would have to be very deep, below the Bakerloo and Jubilee line station tunnels.

Re: How to get to Heathrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 9 Days 21 Hours ago by: Anna Noyd-Dryver

I think you’d need a tunnel below the current running lines, from somewhere around Paddington Praed Street platforms (potentially needing rebuild of that station), through Edgware Road (new underground platforms required) to Baker Stree

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 9 Days 23 Hours ago by: Graeme Wall

Thanks. Will be my first trip north of the Central Line in about 20 years, hence the rusty memory.

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 9 Days 23 Hours ago by: Recliner

Not if you know the station… just take the escalators up and down to the ticket hall. The tops of the escalators to all three lines are very close. It gives you a short, step-free connection between all three lines. At KGX, take the

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 10 Days ago by: Graeme Wall

Not Roland, I was remembering the Piccadilly line interchange there, which is quite a walk. Ta, I can cope with a few steps.

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 10 Days ago by: Recliner

No, it's pretty short. Don't believe Roland's disinformation. Without a suitcase, it's a two-minute interchange, a bit more with a suitcase, unless you don't mid a short staircase down: Take the escalator up from the Jubilee line platf

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 10 Days 1 Hour ago by: Graeme Wall

I wondered about that, isn't it a long walk between the two lines?

Re: Waterloo-Kings Cross (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 10 Days 1 Hour ago by: Recliner

Jubilee to Green Park, then Victoria line to KGX is faster, and step-free.

Re: How to get to Heathrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 10 Days 1 Hour ago by: Recliner

Not really. It wouldn't be an easy change at Baker St, even if the Met had designed it differently in 1863.

Waterloo-Kings Cross

uk.transport.london

Posted: 10 Days 1 Hour ago by: Graeme Wall

Long time since I've done this journey, which is the better interchange from the Northern Line, Leicester Square for the Piccadilly Line or Warren Street for the Victoria Line? Will be carrying a suitcase.

Re: How to get to Heathrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 10 Days 2 Hours ago by: Roger Lynn

If only there was a way to terminate the District and Circle lines at Baker Street instead of Edgware Road, you could catch the first train from King's Cross wherever it was going to, and if necessary change at Baker Street. And in the

Re: Where are you going on 24th May? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 10 Days 3 Hours ago by: Graeme Wall

Having researched it before hand (:-)) we went to the Prague transport desk at the airport and bought a multi-day pass each for peanuts that covered us for all three modes of transport[1], paid by credit card. [1] IIRC it also covered

Re: Where are you going on 24th May? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 10 Days 5 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

Like I said earlier, almost exactly ten years. My last visit would have been in 2009, and my return to the airport was a bus from that fancy station with a horticultural identity crisis. Quite randomly I'd been four times in as many y

Re: Where are you going on 24th May? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 10 Days 5 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

Yes, but if you are a traveller of the kind who HEx is targeted at, you'll just get a taxi (or in the case the client who sent me there the first time, a limo from a fleet organised by the hotel). Not that it went well on the return

Re: Where are you going on 24th May? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 10 Days 6 Hours ago by: Graeme Wall

My trip from Prague airport to hotel, bus to station, metro to town centre, tram to hotel. Total walking distance, less than 250 metres. You can walk more than that changing lines on the tube!

Re: Where are you going on 24th May? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 10 Days 6 Hours ago by: Graeme Wall

It's a few years since I was there so it's not something new.

Re: Where are you going on 24th May? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 10 Days 7 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

Appears to have opened almost exactly 10yrs ago. I'm checking now to see if the metro ever got finished as far as Prague Airport. [Nope. Construction to start in earnest in 2023 perhaps. They were doing a lot of digging when I was last

Re: Where are you going on 24th May? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 10 Days 8 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

It might do now, but didn't when I visited it several times.

Re: Where are you going on 24th May? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 10 Days 8 Hours ago by: Graeme Wall

Lisbon has a station right n=by the terminal

Re: Where are you going on 24th May? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 10 Days 12 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

I'm pragmatic about it, as are HEx, which is why they have a successful business. In any event, the "ignorance" is something resulting from a shortage of time. Working out how to save a few tens of pounds by delving into the usually i

Re: Where are you going on 24th May? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 11 Days 2 Hours ago by: Recliner

You patronisingly assume great ignorance among travellers. You're being patronising again. I probably did more business travel than you did, and wasn't constrained by tight budgets like you were. That was before the EL offered a muc

Re: Where are you going on 24th May? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 11 Days 3 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

They don't know that, and will generally pick the "Airport Express" branded train. I know you simply don't understand the way these travellers' minds work, but HEx does, and they are the one with a successful business based on it.

Re: Where are you going on 24th May? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 11 Days 3 Hours ago by: Recliner

If they want to go 20 miles into London, the EL will be quicker, easier, more convenient than HEx. Business travellers who use the train rather than a car/taxi will mostly prefer a line that takes them near where they want to go, quick

Re: Where are you going on 24th May? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 11 Days 3 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

We'll see. And not gullible, just wanting the easiest/safest way to get the next 20 miles having spend thousands on the airfare. (Many of course will be business travellers, but admittedly those are in shorter supply than before).

Re: Where are you going on 24th May? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 11 Days 14 Hours ago by: Recliner

I don't think there will be enough gullible tourists who've done zero research on transport options to keep HEx going. Yes, probably.

Re: Where are you going on 24th May? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 11 Days 14 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

.... But it has the "Airport Express" branding, which is what people who otherwise would have caught taxis are looking for. In a strange city, few of them will want to start messing with the commuter metro services. Other travellers mi

Re: Where are you going on 24th May? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 14 Days 10 Hours ago by: Recliner

I'm assuming the rebranding will start over the May 21/22 weekend. Yes, but HEx now has to compete with a much cheaper, equally frequent service (unlike HC) that serves far more destinations and isn't much slower (unlike the Tube). Als

Re: Where are you going on 24th May? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 14 Days 14 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

It's a figure of speech, to highlight four names in fourteen years: Connect, TfL Rail, Crossrail [it's a name even if not painted on the signs] and EL [when will the signs have the masking tape - another figure of speech - ripped off?

Re: Where are you going on 24th May? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 15 Days 9 Hours ago by: Recliner

TfL Rail has been the name for the last four years. Agreed. Of course, it's a much worse buy for ordinary punters who have to pay full price. Yes That doesn't say that there was ever a discount on TfL Rail for airport workers.

Re: Where are you going on 24th May? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 15 Days 9 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

Re: Where are you going on 24th May? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 15 Days 10 Hours ago by: Recliner

No, any airport worker gets the 75% HEx discount, and direct HAL employees get free travel on HEx. The Heathrow Connect discount disappeared with Heathrow Connect in 2018. That service was part-owned by HAL, so it could give the discoun

Re: Where are you going on 24th May? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 15 Days 11 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

Re: Where are you going on 24th May? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 15 Days 11 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

That's just the subset who work for HAL itself, probably quite a small number.

Re: Lizzie opens on 24 May (but only six days/week) (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 15 Days 21 Hours ago by: Recliner

No, just the start of normal, scheduled services. I suppose there might be some more press trips the previous day, but there's been plenty of press access already. The other imminent opening is of the new Bank Northern line southbound pl

Re: Lizzie opens on 24 May (but only six days/week) (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 15 Days 21 Hours ago by: hounslow3@yahoo.co.u

No special trip at the stroke of midnight?

Re: Lizzie opens on 24 May (but only six days/week) (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 16 Days 1 Hour ago by: Recliner

0630.

Re: Lizzie opens on 24 May (but only six days/week) (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 16 Days 3 Hours ago by: hounslow3@yahoo.co.u

What time is it due to open, BTW?

Re: Where are you going on 24th May? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 16 Days 4 Hours ago by: Muttley

I suppose at least for their ripoff fare people going to central london will end up somewhere useful now instead of being turfed out at Paddington and having to walk to the tube or bus for onward transport. Though frankly for not far of

Re: Where are you going on 24th May? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 16 Days 6 Hours ago by: Recliner

It looks like airport workers can still get a 75% discount on HEx, and it's free for direct HAL workers: <https://www.heathrow.com/company/team-heathrow/commuting-to-heathrow/public-transport> Team Heathrow colleagues with a valid airpo

Re: Where are you going on 24th May? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 16 Days 6 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

Re: Where are you going on 24th May? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 16 Days 6 Hours ago by: Blueshirt

Which is fair enough, as what else are tourists to London there for apart from to be fleeced?* [*The same as tourists to any big city.]

Re: Where are you going on 24th May? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 16 Days 6 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

I thought airport workers had special arrangements for the fares on Heathrow Connect. Ah yes: http://194.106.222.29/airport-workers (75% discount, info dates back to 2013) However, the subsidy looks like it was scrapped as a result of

Re: Where are you going on 24th May? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 16 Days 7 Hours ago by: Recliner

Yes, it'll be mainly travellers (including tourists) who pay the premium. People (eg, airport workers) doing return trips to the airport will be saved by the cap.

Re: Where are you going on 24th May? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 16 Days 8 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

16 March 2018 the Mayor said: " 'I'm delighted to announce today that the cost of travelling on the Elizabeth Line in Zones 1-6 will be the same price as a similar journey on the tube - fulfilling a key manifesto pledge t

Re: Where are you going on 24th May? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 16 Days 8 Hours ago by: Robin

Khan made other promises that he cannot now keep. But the premium fares for Heathrow were widely reported last summer so not "new news". What I've not yet seen is if they are - as reported last year - going to be subject to the daily

Re: Where are you going on 24th May? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 16 Days 9 Hours ago by: Muttley

The physical railway track yes. Given thats what the actually said about crossrail fares. I don't remember them saying it'll match tube fares "except for heathrow".

Re: Where are you going on 24th May? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 17 Days 4 Hours ago by: Recliner

It's interesting to compare the Heathrow fares with those to West Drayton, also in zone 6: Peak: £5.50 Monday to Friday from 0630 to 0930 and from 1600 to 1900. Off Peak: £3.50 At all other times including public holidays. (ie,

Re: Where are you going on 24th May? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 17 Days 5 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

It's the one at Nationalrail.co.uk If all the stops a Heathrow are in Z6, why don't they all cost the same to travel to? Surly the more expensive ones should be in another zone. While we are at it, is a Z6 travelcard equally valid on

Re: Where are you going on 24th May? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 17 Days 6 Hours ago by: Recliner

Why are you using a 2016 map to look for 2022 fare zones? TfL Rail didn't even exist back then. Why not use a current map? They are all in the Oyster and PayG areas. If you used the link I provided, it shows the fares I cited as valid

Re: Where are you going on 24th May? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 17 Days 7 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

I can't be the only person who thought they'd said it was going to be incorporated in the regular TfL pricing which would mean being a Z6 fare. Although I note that on this map the three heavy rail stations at Heathrow have tiptoed into "

Re: Where are you going on 24th May? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 17 Days 9 Hours ago by: Recliner

The line has served Heathrow for ages now. The TfL Rail fares from Paddington to Heathrow are: Peak: £11.50 Monday to Friday from 0630 to 0930 and from 1600 to 1900. Off Peak: £10.80 At all other times including public holidays. The

Re: Where are you going on 24th May? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 17 Days 10 Hours ago by: Muttley

I read in The Times this morning that the Liz Line fair to/from heathrow will be 11.60. So much for standard fares applying - TfL really making this the line of the people. Not. I imagine most locals will still pile onto the piccadilly l

Re: Lizzie opens on 24 May (but only six days/week) (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 18 Days 4 Hours ago by: Recliner

Grant Shapps refers Sadiq Khan to Electoral Commission over Crossrail opening Transport Secretary Grant Shapps has accused Sadiq Khan of breaking pre-election rules over the announcement of when the Elizabeth line will open. Mr Shapps sai

Re: Where are you going on 24th May? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 18 Days 5 Hours ago by: Ian Clifton

Yes, and yes (it’s all in the name).

Re: Where are you going on 24th May? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 18 Days 7 Hours ago by: Graeme Wall

Is there a) an Abbey, and b) a Wood there?

Where are you going on 24th May?

uk.transport.london

Posted: 18 Days 9 Hours ago by: Ian Clifton

Where: Abbey Wood Why: Look at Abbey, walk in Wood.

Lizzie opens on 24 May (but only six days/week)

uk.railway

Posted: 18 Days 11 Hours ago by: Recliner

Crossrail will open in just 20 days’ time, Transport for London announced on Wednesday. The long-awaited line, which fell years behind schedule and went billions over budget, will start running through central London on Tuesday May 24.

Re: LU doing its bit for the enviroment. Not. (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 20 Days 6 Hours ago by: Muttley

Is this a trick question?

Re: LU doing its bit for the enviroment. Not. (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 20 Days 7 Hours ago by: Robin

Pass. I had in mind the source for your view that they don't need a new building given "they've already got a huge one there".

Re: LU doing its bit for the enviroment. Not. (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 20 Days 11 Hours ago by: Muttley

I'm curious as to where the line is drawn. Would the council need to be consulted to re-arrange the tracks or is it just buildings? My eyes. Which is where we came in.

Re: LU doing its bit for the enviroment. Not. (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 20 Days 11 Hours ago by: Muttley

So the woodland has been cut down for a road. Great. Not much chance of it being replanted then.

Re: LU doing its bit for the enviroment. Not. (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 20 Days 11 Hours ago by: Robin

The council is the planning authority and TfL understandably wish to know the council agrees their plans are generally permitted development. Could be rather expensive if they discovered later they didn't. The documents set out in s

Re: LU doing its bit for the enviroment. Not. (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 20 Days 11 Hours ago by: Recliner

Here's why: <https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/depot-upgrade-at-cockfosters-for-the-piccadilly-lines-new-trains-48134/>

Re: LU doing its bit for the enviroment. Not. (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 20 Days 11 Hours ago by: Muttley

So why don't they upgrade the current shed? I can't see how they'll fit anything sizable into the narrow area they've flattened.

Re: LU doing its bit for the enviroment. Not. (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 20 Days 12 Hours ago by: Muttley

Does a local council have anything to do with what happens on the permanent way? Anyway, regardless, I've better things to do than to google planning applications. I'm sure that'll be a relief to the wildlife. Maintenance is done at

Re: LU doing its bit for the enviroment. Not. (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 20 Days 23 Hours ago by: Recliner

Yes, the new trains are articulated and longer than the 73TS, so significantly upgraded maintenance facilities will be needed. The same was true of the S7s that replaced shorter D and C stock.

Re: LU doing its bit for the enviroment. Not. (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 21 Days ago by: Robin

My comments were based on my reading last autumn TfL's planning application which was emailed to me. But I am sure that will still be available on Enfield's site (and very probably also on TfL's). I have no idea what species were the

Re: LU doing its bit for the enviroment. Not. (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 21 Days 4 Hours ago by: Muttley

You'll be able to provide a link presumably? I'm assuming you just forgot. As for native species, you mean like the 50+ year old trees that were already there? Also why do they need a new shed, they've already got a huge one there.

Re: LU doing its bit for the enviroment. Not. (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 21 Days 22 Hours ago by: Robin

It might help if you explained just what aspects of TfL's plans to develop the site for a new maintenance and cleaning shed etc for the new rolling stock, including to landscape the redeveloped site with native species, you find object

Re: LU doing its bit for the enviroment. Not. (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 22 Days 4 Hours ago by: Muttley

Yes, thats the road. But there were trees between some sidings as well and they've gone too so its LUs doing for sure.

Re: LU doing its bit for the enviroment. Not. (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 23 Days 3 Hours ago by: Graeme Wall

Do you mean the bit between Westpole Avenue and the railway? AFAIK it's not railway land.

LU doing its bit for the enviroment. Not.

uk.transport.london

Posted: 23 Days 4 Hours ago by: Muttley

Got the piccadilly from cockfosters today and notice the small woodland at the top of the depot just south of some sidings has been completely cleared. Its been there for as long as I can remember. Obviously following their master Sadiq Kha

Re: Phantom bus service? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 24 Days 8 Hours ago by: MikeS

The lettering is where you indicated but too small to read unless I were prepared to stand by the kerb all day waiting for one to pass very slowly!

Re: New tube for london (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 24 Days 23 Hours ago by: London calling

45 seconds on S stock.

Re: Phantom bus service? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 25 Days 10 Hours ago by: Graham Harrison

No idea but a suggestion - Look at this picture of a "Boris Bus" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Routemaster#/media/File:LT_464_(LTZ_1464)_Arriva_London_New_Routemaster_(17304507064).jpg Between the front tyre and centre door there i

Re: Phantom bus service? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 25 Days 10 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

Depends how literally. The trainer would typically stand next to the driver, and the passenger seats would appear empty.

Re: Phantom bus service? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 25 Days 11 Hours ago by: MikeS

Is that likely when they literally have only a driver on board?

Re: Phantom bus service? (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 25 Days 11 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

Driver training? Although often those have signage.

Phantom bus service?

uk.transport.london

Posted: 25 Days 12 Hours ago by: MikeS

I live on the A243 which runs from Leatherhead to Kingston via Chessington, Hook and Surbiton. Over the past few weeks I started to notice some buses which pass at regular intervals throughout the day in both directions. They look simila

Re: How to get to Heathrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 25 Days 15 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

As far as I'm concerned the Met to Uxbridge became "turn up and go" when they increased the frequency from every 20 minutes to every 15 minutes. Seems like a small change, but somehow it made all the difference. Of course, that was qu

Re: How to get to Heathrow (thread)

uk.transport.london

Posted: 25 Days 16 Hours ago by: Recliner

Are you aware of the current (not-so) 'special service' on the Met? Plus, Chesham never gets better than 2 tph, for obvious reasons.

Re: How to get to Heathrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 25 Days 17 Hours ago by: Charles Ellson

For some outer destinations you night need to take the first train to Harrow and change there. Similarly, if you are east of Baker Street you might need to change either at Finchley Road (everything going out of London stops there at the

Re: How to get to Heathrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 25 Days 20 Hours ago by: hounslow3@yahoo.co.u

I recently had to travel to Metroland, also assuming that it would be 'turn up and go.' It was about 30 minutes before the train that I needed actually arrived.

Re: How to get to Heathrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 27 Days 2 Hours ago by: Peter Johnson

I made use of the Hammersmith interchange last Tuesday. If I'd known you were going to raise it I would have paid more attention to it.

Re: How to get to Heathrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 27 Days 3 Hours ago by: Recliner

Ouch! That's a real boo-boo. It's a very long time since Paddington was served by the Met.

Re: How to get to Heathrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 27 Days 10 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

We need to bear in mind the target audience for this kind of advice. Almost by definition they aren't familiar with the routings available, let alone the layout of individual London terminus station. I'd be much happier, for example, t

Re: How to get to Hesthrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 27 Days 12 Hours ago by: Recliner

Yes to all of those. Hammersmith Piccadilly is open air, but with covered platforms and waiting rooms, so it's a nicer place to wait than most deep Tube platforms. If not in a hurry, you could also pick up a snack in the shops above, or c

Re: How to get to Hesthrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 27 Days 22 Hours ago by: Theo

Thanks. So probably marginally more hassle than the twisty passages all alike of KXSP, but possibly an option if you aren't in a hurry / want some more variety / daylight / mobile signal / possibly quieter trains. Might also be a more p

Re: How to get to Hesthrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 28 Days 1 Hour ago by: Recliner

Yes, as we discussed earlier, the wacky names came a few years after franchising began; the original franchies mostly had prosaic geographic names. I think they were mainly the work of NatEx and First, who also tended to go in for very co

Re: How to get to Heathrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 28 Days 2 Hours ago by: Anna Noyd-Dryver

Declining to use HEx because some people haven't caught up with a network change 13 years ago, is like telling people not to use Eurostar because they no longer run to Waterloo! So go to the correct platform then. H&C, Circle and Distri

Re: How to get to Hesthrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 28 Days 2 Hours ago by: Anna Noyd-Dryver

Wessex came later, the original franchise was Wales and West. Anna Noyd-Dryver

Re: How to get to Hesthrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 28 Days 2 Hours ago by: Charles Ellson

Close, it is attributed as the LAPD's motto from 1955 https://www.culinaryepicenter.com/my-mom-wrote-the-motto-to-protect-and-to-serve/

Re: How to get to Hesthrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 28 Days 2 Hours ago by: Charles Ellson

aka "Vomitlink" because of that colour scheme. It didn't overcome the description "DC line".

Re: How to get to Hesthrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 28 Days 3 Hours ago by: Graeme Wall

Shows how long it is since I've been there!

Re: How to get to Hesthrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 28 Days 3 Hours ago by: Recliner

That closed many years ago! You just walk across the road when the little green man invites you to do so. It's all on the level. The Piccadilly/District station is just inside the shopping centre, and can't be missed. After the barriers

Re: How to get to Hesthrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 28 Days 4 Hours ago by: Graeme Wall

Involves an underpass to get across Hammersmith Broadway.

Re: How to get to Hesthrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 28 Days 4 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

iirc it's on the level coming out of the Circle/H&C station, but then you have to cross the road and find the Piccadilly/District station, which reportedly has lifts down to the platform level.

Re: How to get to Hesthrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 28 Days 6 Hours ago by: Recliner

It's an OSI. Hammersmith H&C is at ground level, cross the road, go into the shopping centre, one lift down to either platform.

Re: How to get to Hesthrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 28 Days 6 Hours ago by: Theo

What's the interchange like at Hammersmith between Circle/H&C and Piccadilly? Looking at the journey planner it seems about evens using either to get from St Pancras. Possibly the Circle/H&C would be an option for those wanting an alter

Re: How to get to Hesthrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 28 Days 8 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

Depends where you are starting from, but let's assume the MML platforms. One lift down to ground level. U-turn, first right, through the "Market", and then there's a lift which also serves the HS1 platforms. Down to the "Northern Tick

Re: How to get to Hesthrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 28 Days 9 Hours ago by: Clive Page

Agreed, but 'step free' at St.Pancras means taking, if I remember correctly, about 5 lifts. Most of them are well hidden, and at any given time the chances that all are actually in working order is smallish. Be prepared to lug your lugg

Re: How to get to Heathrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 28 Days 9 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

For heavy rail (and subsurface TfL) outside the North/South circulars, on a one-leg trip, perhaps. Yes, I know HEx is outside that perimeter, but it has competition if the destination is beyond Paddington. A change at somewhere like Pa

Re: How to get to Hesthrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 28 Days 9 Hours ago by: Marland

We fitted a Whitbread Trophy counter display to the roof of my mates Austin Cambridge back in the 1970’s and arranged for it to flash when on the way to New Forest Pubs. The Police expressed a dim view but took no action.( We always us

Re: How to get to Heathrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 28 Days 9 Hours ago by: Marland

I’m about to depart for an overseas holiday so have not got time to list details but there is heck of a lotof railway history west of Hammersmith to look for. Look up the history of the LSWR and District line and how the LSWR making th

Re: How to get to Hesthrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 28 Days 10 Hours ago by: Graeme Wall

Taken from the Californian (?) police motto, to Protect and to Serve, allegedly a Hollywood invention. I came across a faux American police car in Southampton with the legend: To Protect and to Serve Beer, belonged to the landlord of a

Re: How to get to Hesthrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 28 Days 12 Hours ago by: Tweed

Not just a railway thing. The whole country was in thrall to the branding folk. Consignia anyone? Also remember when every brand name had to be accompanied by a mission statement strapline, eg “Metropolitan Police - working for a safer

Re: How to get to Hesthrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 28 Days 12 Hours ago by: Recliner

Silverlink Metro and County? Wessex is more whimsical than geographic. WAGN was, technically, geographic, but not very helpfully.

Re: How to get to Hesthrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 28 Days 12 Hours ago by: Sam Wilson

Silverlink with their purple and green trains? I liked the livery, which seemed to make me a bit unusual, but the name made no sense. Sam

Re: How to get to Heathrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 28 Days 13 Hours ago by: Anna Noyd-Dryver

I thought every 15 minutes was considered the general baseline for 'turn up and go' operation? Lizzie will eventually be every 10 mins, IIRC. Every 5/6 minutes not good enough for you? Anna Noyd-Dryver

Re: How to get to Hesthrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 28 Days 13 Hours ago by: Anna Noyd-Dryver

Which ones other than c2c, One and FCC do you consider 'wacky'? Most were a geographical name with the owning group appended, surely, or occasionally just the name of that group (Connex). Anna Noyd-Dryver

Re: How to get to Hesthrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 28 Days 13 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

It was also thus (see what I did there?) in the telecoms industry. Still waiting for "3" to rebrand as "5" when they switch off their original network. Earlier, I came up with the branding "UK Online", for a startup consumer ISP, whic

Re: How to get to Hesthrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 28 Days 14 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

They've put some new vinyl stickers on them, something like "Great Northern operated by Gatwick Express". But it's the bright red paint you see from a distance (contrasting with the white paint on the second unit-of-four) Early in lo

Re: How to get to Hesthrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 28 Days 14 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

Perhaps because many were essentially independent startups. How about (although it wasn't coined immediately) "We Are Going Nowhere" (aka "three wheels on my WAGN, and we are still rolling along").

Re: How to get to Hesthrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 28 Days 14 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

Back in the day, the main advantage was an empty train at Gatwick, rather than one packed with Brighton commuters, and of course with some useful luggage space. Returning, there was an easy to find customer-friendly dedicated platform

Re: How to get to Heathrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 28 Days 14 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

It's the constant starting and stopping that's most wearing I think. I like people-watching, and how the crown thins out leaving mainly longhaul passengers, and wondering where they might be going, and why the are dressed like *that*.

Re: How to get to Hesthrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 28 Days 22 Hours ago by: Recliner

Yes, I think most of the first batch were MBOs, who had no interest in supposedly catchy branding. It was when they sold out to or were replaced by companies like First and NatEx, which acquired multiple TOCs, that some marketing genius d

Re: How to get to Hesthrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 28 Days 22 Hours ago by: Anna Noyd-Dryver

They were returned some while ago. The white ex-c2c ones are now on direct lease to gWr rather than sub-lease, and have been modified to be able to operate as per the normal gWr fleet (rather than being restricted to Reading-Newbury, or m

Re: How to get to Hesthrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 28 Days 22 Hours ago by: Anna Noyd-Dryver

Most of the initial franchises (except Virgin) didn't have the franchisee identity in the name, IIRC. Later takeovers or refranchising established that habit. Northern Spirit was perhaps the 'silliest' of the initial franchise names?

Re: How to get to Hesthrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 28 Days 23 Hours ago by: Recliner

Its main function is to rip off tourists who pay more than they would on SN services to Victoria, for the privilege of sitting bolt upright on tungsten seats for a couple of minutes shorter journey, as it skips the East Croydon and Clapha

Re: How to get to Hesthrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 28 Days 23 Hours ago by: Tweed

Does the GatEx have any logic now that ThamesLink provide a decent service that starts at multiple stations within central (no don’t argue about the definition of that….) London?

Re: How to get to Heathrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 28 Days 23 Hours ago by: Tweed

It’s utterly illogical, but I really don’t like the slow trio out to Heathrow on the tube.

Re: How to get to Hesthrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 29 Days ago by: Recliner

Presumably only until GatEx fully resumes its traditional schedule? Currently, I think it's running at 50%. I've also been on GatEx trains running SN services, away from normal GatEx routes. I think that's allowed some updating of SN's

Re: How to get to Heathrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 29 Days ago by: Roland Perry

And I don't understand why the alleged tedium of a little under an hour on the Piccadilly Line is significant compared to the ensuing two to three hours of tedium at Heathrow, the five to ten hours of tedium on the onward flight, and

Re: How to get to Heathrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 29 Days ago by: Recliner

Yes, that's true, but I was anticipating the reopening of T4, probably in a couple of months. No changes, and more frequent trains. And, of course, if your journey starts in London, the Piccadilly is more likely to have a station nearb

Re: How to get to Hesthrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 29 Days ago by: Roland Perry

The bright red Gatwick Express Electrostars are now apparently a permanent fixture on GN to Kings Lynn.

Re: How to get to Heathrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 29 Days 1 Hour ago by: John Levine

So long as T4 remains closed, don't the Picc, HEx, and Liz all go to all open terminals? I agree that the Picc feels like it takes forever but since you don't have to change is usually just as fast.

Re: How to get to Hesthrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 29 Days 3 Hours ago by: Recliner

Yes, but FirstGroup was persuaded/volunteered to start the ball rolling first with its existing fGW—>GWR franchise. The silly brand names date from quite a few years ago, when early franchises were given more freedom to 'innovate'. Y

Re: How to get to Hesthrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 29 Days 3 Hours ago by: Charles Ellson

As done a few years ago with ScotRail and London Buses, the operators' names occupying relatively minor areas with the general livery and branding set by the relevant government body.

Re: How to get to Hesthrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 29 Days 4 Hours ago by: Graeme Wall

We thought it was daft as well, AIUI the logic was the service area was bordered by the English Channel coast and the North Sea coast, which, of course, meet at Dover.

Re: How to get to Hesthrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 29 Days 5 Hours ago by: ColinR

Maybe the Hampshire / Dorset coast as one and the Isle of Wight as the other??

Re: How to get to Hesthrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 29 Days 6 Hours ago by: Marland

Not the transport industry but perhaps Graeme has some insight as to why the ITV contractor TVS called its evening news programme Coast to Coast , would have been understandable if it had been Television Southwest whose service area incor

Re: How to get to Hesthrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 29 Days 6 Hours ago by: Marland

For the football business masquerading as a “club” it earns them quite a lot of money, though occasionally it causes image problems when the Sponsor becomes the corporate equivalent of persona non grata . GH

Re: How to get to Hesthrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 29 Days 6 Hours ago by: Tweed

Hasn’t it been a requirement of recent franchise awards to have a TOC independent name that can be bequeathed to a new encumbent without extensive alterations? Anyway, to reverse a bit, Thameslink is very obviously Thameslink these da

Re: How to get to Hesthrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 29 Days 7 Hours ago by: Recliner

Yes, agreed, 'One' was the worst example, this time NatEx to blame. Another of their silly ones was/is c2c. They also gave us the two Silverlink branches. In contrast, Govia has always had straightforward, geographic names with no compan

Re: How to get to Hesthrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 29 Days 7 Hours ago by: Recliner

First went through a misguided marketing phase of inserting the company brand in front of TOC names, but it has since been 'persuaded' not to do so. So, it's now GWR not fGW, TPE not fTPE, SWR not fSW, and Avanti WC not fWC.

Re: How to get to Hesthrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 29 Days 8 Hours ago by: Graeme Wall

First was actually a bus company when they adopted the name, still a nonsense name but it was part of a trend at the time (see also One). Renaming the stadium is usually a precondition for the sponsorship. The whole point of sponsorsh

Re: How to get to Hesthrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 29 Days 8 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

From time to time that confusion has raised is head. Of course FCC wasn't the worst attempt at branding ever; I think that award must go to "One". Although for a time the two brands co-existed at Cambridge leading to lots of leg pulli

Re: How to get to Hesthrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 29 Days 9 Hours ago by: NY

"Recliner" <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote in message news:t3v5n9$ju7$1@dont-email.me... Yes, it looks as if the name "Thameslink" is back again. Ok. My mistake. I was getting my FCCs and Govias mixed up. But the point is that a TOC

Re: How to get to Hesthrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 29 Days 10 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

It's 140m, but right order of magnitude. It's unfortunate they didn't implement a shorter route from the MML platforms to the Thameslink ones, but it's also less congested to u-turn towards the latter. There's often quite a scrum outs

Re: How to get to Hesthrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 29 Days 10 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

Google maps, however, never got the memo about the demise of FCC: https://goo.gl/maps/xBmRv6j1Cdj4Mais5

Re: How to get to Hesthrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 29 Days 11 Hours ago by: Anna Noyd-Dryver

I know you have a thing about walking distances at StP/KX, but in this instance does half the length of the station building (MML escalators to E* exit, perhaps 100m) really make that much of a difference that you'd go a completely differ

Re: How to get to Hesthrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 29 Days 13 Hours ago by: Recliner

But as the trains are more frequent, and go directly to all terminals, the total journey time may not be much longer. I'm not sure whether it would be better to go east and change at Farringon, or west and change at Paddington. The tim

Re: How to get to Hesthrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 29 Days 13 Hours ago by: Roland Perry

If it's StP Thameslink, I'd expect to stay on the train and change at Farringdon. For StP MML, I think change to Thameslink. For Eurostar the least walking is subsurface to Farringdon.

Re: How to get to Hesthrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 29 Days 14 Hours ago by: Tweed

I hadn’t realised until just after my original post that EL/Crossrail was going to initially open with an enforced change at Paddington. In the past I’ve tried HEx from Paddington and the Piccadilly. The latter is less trouble, and c

Re: How to get to Hesthrow (thread)

uk.railway

Posted: 29 Days 22 Hours ago by: Recliner

It's much easier, much cheaper, and probably no slower, to just take a direct Piccadilly train to any Heathrow terminal. Step-free all the way, and the seats are more comfortable. Don't blame Govia, which was the company that promptly

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