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computers / comp.ai.philosophy / All my reviewers expect a halt decider to have psychic power

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* All my reviewers expect a halt decider to have psychic powerolcott
`* Re: All my reviewers expect a halt decider to have psychic powerolcott
 `- Re: All my reviewers expect a halt decider to have psychic powerolcott

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All my reviewers expect a halt decider to have psychic power

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 by: olcott - Sat, 23 Apr 2022 14:49 UTC

All of my reviewers expect H(P,P) to compute the halt status of P(P),
yet the behavior specified by the input to H(P,P) is not the same as the
behavior specified by P(P).

Anyone that is an expert in the C programming language, the x86
programming language, exactly how C translates into x86 and what an x86
processor emulator is can easily verify that the correctly simulated
input to H(P,P) by H specifies a non-halting sequence of configurations.

Since my reviewers expect the halt decider to compute the halt status of
P(P) yet the input to H(P,P) specifies a different halt status my
reviewers expect H to read their mind so that it can compute different
behavior than the behavior that the input actually specifies.

The function named H continues to simulate its input using an x86
emulator until this input either halts on its own or H detects that it
would never halt. If its input halts H returns 1. If H detects that its
input would never halt H returns 0.

#include <stdint.h>
#define u32 uint32_t

void P(u32 x)
{ if (H(x, x))
HERE: goto HERE;
return;
}

int main()
{ Output("Input_Halts = ", H((u32)P, (u32)P));
}

_P()
[000009d6](01) 55 push ebp
[000009d7](02) 8bec mov ebp,esp
[000009d9](03) 8b4508 mov eax,[ebp+08]
[000009dc](01) 50 push eax // push P
[000009dd](03) 8b4d08 mov ecx,[ebp+08]
[000009e0](01) 51 push ecx // push P
[000009e1](05) e840feffff call 00000826 // call H
[000009e6](03) 83c408 add esp,+08
[000009e9](02) 85c0 test eax,eax
[000009eb](02) 7402 jz 000009ef
[000009ed](02) ebfe jmp 000009ed
[000009ef](01) 5d pop ebp
[000009f0](01) c3 ret // Final state
Size in bytes:(0027) [000009f0]

The simulated input to H(P,P) cannot possibly reach its own final state
of [000009f0] it keeps repeating [000009d6] to [000009e1] until aborted.

Begin Local Halt Decider Simulation

machine stack stack machine assembly
address address data code language
======== ======== ======== ========= =============
....[000009d6][00211368][0021136c] 55 push ebp // enter P
....[000009d7][00211368][0021136c] 8bec mov ebp,esp
....[000009d9][00211368][0021136c] 8b4508 mov eax,[ebp+08]
....[000009dc][00211364][000009d6] 50 push eax // Push P
....[000009dd][00211364][000009d6] 8b4d08 mov ecx,[ebp+08]
....[000009e0][00211360][000009d6] 51 push ecx // Push P
....[000009e1][0021135c][000009e6] e840feffff call 00000826 // Call H
....[000009d6][0025bd90][0025bd94] 55 push ebp // enter P
....[000009d7][0025bd90][0025bd94] 8bec mov ebp,esp
....[000009d9][0025bd90][0025bd94] 8b4508 mov eax,[ebp+08]
....[000009dc][0025bd8c][000009d6] 50 push eax // Push P
....[000009dd][0025bd8c][000009d6] 8b4d08 mov ecx,[ebp+08]
....[000009e0][0025bd88][000009d6] 51 push ecx // Push P
....[000009e1][0025bd84][000009e6] e840feffff call 00000826 // Call H
Local Halt Decider: Infinite Recursion Detected Simulation Stopped

Because the correctly simulated input to H(P,P) cannot possibly reach
its own final state at [000009f0] it is necessarily correct for H to
reject this input as non-halting.

The correctly simulated 27 bytes of machine code at [000009d6] would
never reach its own final state at [000009f0] when correctly simulated
by the simulating halt decider (SHD) at machine address [00000826].

Halting problem undecidability and infinitely nested simulation (V5)

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/359984584_Halting_problem_undecidability_and_infinitely_nested_simulation_V5

--
Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott

"Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
Genius hits a target no one else can see."
Arthur Schopenhauer

Re: All my reviewers expect a halt decider to have psychic power

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 by: olcott - Sat, 23 Apr 2022 16:34 UTC

On 4/23/2022 11:29 AM, wij wrote:
> On Sunday, 24 April 2022 at 00:05:19 UTC+8, olcott wrote:
>> On 4/23/2022 10:58 AM, wij wrote:
>>> On Saturday, 23 April 2022 at 22:49:59 UTC+8, olcott wrote:
>>>> All of my reviewers expect H(P,P) to compute the halt status of P(P),
>>>> yet the behavior specified by the input to H(P,P) is not the same as the
>>>> behavior specified by P(P).
>>>
>>> In computability theory, the halting problem is the problem of determining, from a description of an arbitrary computer program and an input, whether the program will finish running, or continue to run forever
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halting_problem
>>>
>>> If using this common concept, the halting decider H, when given an argument P
>>> (or P P), is supposed to answer whether P(P) will halt or not. This is a very
>>> simple, easy idea to understand even for teenager students.
>>>
>> When this very simple idea is very rigorously examined (as it is in my
>> paper) one sees that this requires the halt decider to be a mind reader
>> and compute the halt status other than the actual halt status specified
>> by its actual input.
>
> Your wording/interpretations/paper change all the time. No idea what this new
> excuse 'mind reader' might mean. As said, the Halting Problem is very simple
> and intuitive.
> H should be a decider that computes the actual halt status of P(P). P is the
> H's actual argument input.
> I expect you might try to find some bugs of those descriptions to rephrasing it
> in your favor. But, what would be the point? What is the usefulness of POOP?

Yet when you carefully examine my paper:

Anyone that is an expert in the C programming language, the x86
programming language, exactly how C translates into x86 and what an x86
processor emulator is can easily verify that the correctly simulated
input to H(P,P) by H specifies a non-halting sequence of configurations.

Halting problem undecidability and infinitely nested simulation (V5)

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/359984584_Halting_problem_undecidability_and_infinitely_nested_simulation_V5

Simply ignoring the verified facts is a ridiculously foolish was to form
any actual rebuttal.

--
Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott

"Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
Genius hits a target no one else can see."
Arthur Schopenhauer

Re: All my reviewers expect a halt decider to have psychic power

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 by: olcott - Sat, 23 Apr 2022 16:51 UTC

On 4/23/2022 11:43 AM, wij wrote:
> On Sunday, 24 April 2022 at 00:34:55 UTC+8, olcott wrote:
>> On 4/23/2022 11:29 AM, wij wrote:
>>> On Sunday, 24 April 2022 at 00:05:19 UTC+8, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 4/23/2022 10:58 AM, wij wrote:
>>>>> On Saturday, 23 April 2022 at 22:49:59 UTC+8, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> All of my reviewers expect H(P,P) to compute the halt status of P(P),
>>>>>> yet the behavior specified by the input to H(P,P) is not the same as the
>>>>>> behavior specified by P(P).
>>>>>
>>>>> In computability theory, the halting problem is the problem of determining, from a description of an arbitrary computer program and an input, whether the program will finish running, or continue to run forever
>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halting_problem
>>>>>
>>>>> If using this common concept, the halting decider H, when given an argument P
>>>>> (or P P), is supposed to answer whether P(P) will halt or not. This is a very
>>>>> simple, easy idea to understand even for teenager students.
>>>>>
>>>> When this very simple idea is very rigorously examined (as it is in my
>>>> paper) one sees that this requires the halt decider to be a mind reader
>>>> and compute the halt status other than the actual halt status specified
>>>> by its actual input.
>>>
>>> Your wording/interpretations/paper change all the time. No idea what this new
>>> excuse 'mind reader' might mean. As said, the Halting Problem is very simple
>>> and intuitive.
>>> H should be a decider that computes the actual halt status of P(P). P is the
>>> H's actual argument input.
>>> I expect you might try to find some bugs of those descriptions to rephrasing it
>>> in your favor. But, what would be the point? What is the usefulness of POOP?
>> Yet when you carefully examine my paper:
>> Anyone that is an expert in the C programming language, the x86
>> programming language, exactly how C translates into x86 and what an x86
>> processor emulator is can easily verify that the correctly simulated
>> input to H(P,P) by H specifies a non-halting sequence of configurations.
>> Halting problem undecidability and infinitely nested simulation (V5)
>>
>> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/359984584_Halting_problem_undecidability_and_infinitely_nested_simulation_V5
>> Simply ignoring the verified facts is a ridiculously foolish was to form
>> any actual rebuttal.
>> --
>> Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott
>>
>> "Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
>> Genius hits a target no one else can see."
>> Arthur Schopenhauer
>
> You already verified the fact that H(P,P) will be in an infinite recursive call
> (thus, undecidable). Why you say H(P,P)==false (or true)?

You might make a wild guess like this if you make sure to hardly pay
attention. When you actually pay close attention and carefully study my
paper it is very easy to see that H sees the same infinitely repeating
pattern that we see, thus can abort its simulation and reject its input.

Begin Local Halt Decider Simulation

machine stack stack machine assembly
address address data code language
======== ======== ======== ========= =============
....[000009d6][00211368][0021136c] 55 push ebp // enter P
....[000009d7][00211368][0021136c] 8bec mov ebp,esp
....[000009d9][00211368][0021136c] 8b4508 mov eax,[ebp+08]
....[000009dc][00211364][000009d6] 50 push eax // Push P
....[000009dd][00211364][000009d6] 8b4d08 mov ecx,[ebp+08]
....[000009e0][00211360][000009d6] 51 push ecx // Push P
....[000009e1][0021135c][000009e6] e840feffff call 00000826 // Call H
....[000009d6][0025bd90][0025bd94] 55 push ebp // enter P
....[000009d7][0025bd90][0025bd94] 8bec mov ebp,esp
....[000009d9][0025bd90][0025bd94] 8b4508 mov eax,[ebp+08]
....[000009dc][0025bd8c][000009d6] 50 push eax // Push P
....[000009dd][0025bd8c][000009d6] 8b4d08 mov ecx,[ebp+08]
....[000009e0][0025bd88][000009d6] 51 push ecx // Push P
....[000009e1][0025bd84][000009e6] e840feffff call 00000826 // Call H
Local Halt Decider: Infinite Recursion Detected Simulation Stopped

Halting problem undecidability and infinitely nested simulation (V5)

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/359984584_Halting_problem_undecidability_and_infinitely_nested_simulation_V5

--
Copyright 2022 Pete Olcott

"Talent hits a target no one else can hit;
Genius hits a target no one else can see."
Arthur Schopenhauer

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