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computers / comp.ai.philosophy / Re: Does the call from P() to H() specify infinite recursion?

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* Re: Does the call from P() to H() specify infinite recursion?olcott
`- Re: Does the call from P() to H() specify infinite recursion?olcott

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Re: Does the call from P() to H() specify infinite recursion?

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 by: olcott - Thu, 11 Nov 2021 16:31 UTC

On 11/11/2021 10:14 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 11/11/21 11:00 AM, olcott wrote:
>> #define ptr uintptr_t
>>
>> void P(ptr x)
>> {
>>    H(x, x);
>> }
>>
>> int H(ptr x, ptr y)
>> {
>>    ((void(*)(ptr))x)(y);
>>    return 1;
>> }
>>
>> int main()
>> {
>>    H((ptr)P, (ptr)P);
>>    return 0;
>> }
>>
>
> Yes.
>
> So all you have proven is that if H unconditionally executes its input
> you get infinite recursion.
>
> And, H will never return.
>
> If H isn't that function, then the computation of P changes so you have
> no proof for what the behavior of that machine is.
>

_P()
[00001a5e](01) 55 push ebp
[00001a5f](02) 8bec mov ebp,esp
[00001a61](03) 8b4508 mov eax,[ebp+08]
[00001a64](01) 50 push eax // push P
[00001a65](03) 8b4d08 mov ecx,[ebp+08]
[00001a68](01) 51 push ecx // push P
[00001a69](05) e810000000 call 00001a7e // call H
[00001a6e](03) 83c408 add esp,+08
[00001a71](01) 5d pop ebp
[00001a72](01) c3 ret
Size in bytes:(0021) [00001a72]

If H simulates the x86 machine language of its input and sees that its
simulated P is calling H with the same parameters that H was called with
H can abort its simulation of P and correctly report that P would never
reach its final state at 1a72.

--
Copyright 2021 Pete Olcott

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre
minds." Einstein

Re: Does the call from P() to H() specify infinite recursion?

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 by: olcott - Thu, 11 Nov 2021 17:14 UTC

On 11/11/2021 10:46 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 11/11/21 11:31 AM, olcott wrote:
>> On 11/11/2021 10:14 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 11/11/21 11:00 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>> #define ptr uintptr_t
>>>>
>>>> void P(ptr x)
>>>> {
>>>>    H(x, x);
>>>> }
>>>>
>>>> int H(ptr x, ptr y)
>>>> {
>>>>    ((void(*)(ptr))x)(y);
>>>>    return 1;
>>>> }
>>>>
>>>> int main()
>>>> {
>>>>    H((ptr)P, (ptr)P);
>>>>    return 0;
>>>> }
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes.
>>>
>>> So all you have proven is that if H unconditionally executes its
>>> input you get infinite recursion.
>>>
>>> And, H will never return.
>>>
>>> If H isn't that function, then the computation of P changes so you
>>> have no proof for what the behavior of that machine is.
>>>
>>
>> _P()
>> [00001a5e](01)  55              push ebp
>> [00001a5f](02)  8bec            mov ebp,esp
>> [00001a61](03)  8b4508          mov eax,[ebp+08]
>> [00001a64](01)  50              push eax        // push P
>> [00001a65](03)  8b4d08          mov ecx,[ebp+08]
>> [00001a68](01)  51              push ecx        // push P
>> [00001a69](05)  e810000000      call 00001a7e   // call H
>> [00001a6e](03)  83c408          add esp,+08
>> [00001a71](01)  5d              pop ebp
>> [00001a72](01)  c3              ret
>> Size in bytes:(0021) [00001a72]
>>
>>
>> If H simulates the x86 machine language of its input and sees that its
>> simulated P is calling H with the same parameters that H was called
>> with H can abort its simulation of P and correctly report that P would
>> never reach its final state at 1a72.
>>
>>
>
> No it can't.
>
> If H can abort its simulation, then it needs to take into account that H
> can abort its simulation. PERIOD.
>
> H, in making that conclusion, is PRESUMING that the called H will not
> abort its simulation, which it is wrong about.

Because I keep repeating these same words dozens of times and you never
acknowledge that you have ever seen them I really believe that you
actually have attention deficit disorder (ADD):

(a) P only halts if it reaches its final state at 1a72.

(b) If H does not abort its simulation of P then P never reaches its
final state at 1a72.

(c) If H aborts its simulation of P then P never reaches its final state
as 1a72.

Because P never halts in all possible cases H(P,P)==0 is always correct.

--
Copyright 2021 Pete Olcott

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre
minds." Einstein

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