On 11/27/2023 9:12 PM, Alan Browne wrote:

>> Your reasoning is absurd because you don't even know what an sd card does.
>
> Given I have nearly a dozen within reach right here right now, that is
> quite the claim.

All your arguments reek of you not understanding what you make absurd
excuses for not having on that dinky cheap dollar-store iPhone of yours.

You don't even know that sd works as portable storage, so it's absurd your
claim that the only reason for an sd card is to augment internal storage.

Although it does also augment the internal storage.
Your dinky dollar-store cheap plastic iPhone can't do any of that.

>> And you are making up excuses about "water resistance" because it's absurd.
>
> And of course any device that has a "port" or is conveniently opened is
> at higher risk of water damage. iPhones on the other hand have great
> water resistance and have been demonstrated to exceed their spec for
> time and depth by multiples.

Phones with ports have fine water resistance.

You're just making absurd excuses because you don't have the aux port
in that cheap dinky plastic dollar-store iPhone of yours.

>> How are you going to get portable memory with your dinky broken iPhone?
>
> It is my portable memory. I often encrypted volumes of data at work to
> bring home for storage using my iPhone as the data carrier. Quite fast
> and convenient esp. using the AirDrop feature on both ends of the
> transaction.

See. You don't even understand the slightest of what portable memory means.

Nor do you understand that you can capture 512GB of media and then do it
again, and again, and again (all day, every day) using those sd cards.

you can't do anything like that in your cheap plastic dinky iPhone.
Every excuse you made is absurd because you don't understand any of this.

Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> Whatever you say is "enough" if you get into your thick skull that most
>>>>> Android models sold today have the very useful ports, slots & radios.
>>>>
>>>> But what percentage of people USE those ports?
>>>
>>> What percentage uses any particular feature or app?
>>>
>>> Does a feature need to have 90% usage in order not not be removed?
>>
>> Take data expansion. This means there is unused volume inside from the
>> start. Better to reclaim that (more battery) and sell it with more SSD
>> from the start. Less parts, more reliable. Seal the phone - better
>> water resistance.
>
> No offense, but that's a rather weak argument.
>
> The extra space taken up by a (Micro) SD-card 'tray' is tiny and in
> most cases only a small extension of the SIM-card tray.
>
> Yes, more internal storage is good, but that also occupies space and
> - *if* available - costs extra money upfront.
>
> It used to cost quite a lot of money upfront, especially on lower end
> phones. These days, the incremental cost is not that high anymore, but
> at the low end, the internal storage was/is quite low. When I bought my
> current phone three years ago, there were many 16GB phones (and perhaps
> even some 8GB ones). Now, there still are some 32GB phones.
>
> Anyway, it's nice to have the option of - *large* - memory expansion,
> instead of getting stuck with a too small (storage) phone. For *me* -
> with my current 128GB phone - not an earth-shaking big deal, but a nice
> option. For others, with less internal storage or/and other memory
> needs, it might be a more-important/essential feature.
>
> Moral: Different strokes for different folks.

What's happening here is the Apple people bought a car that has no trunk.
So they bought an overhead carrier to carry their stuff, like groceries.

Then they tell you how great the overhead carrier is for hauling groceries.
But what they can't fathom is anyone can add the same overhead carrier.

The difference is that they have to add it as they have no other choice.

Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
> Show me where I made such a claim.

You're making claims a car without the trunk is as good as one with it.

You must add something to replace the missing functionality. Maybe that's a
trailer, or maybe that's an overhead carrier. Now you can carry groceries.

What you don't realize is anyone can add that trailer or overhead carrier.
So a car without a trunk is always less capable than one with a trunk.

> Otherwise stop doubling down on stupid.

If you don't get the analogy (which everyone else got) then "doubling down
on stupid" is apropos because the analogy is very close to what Apple did.

Apple removed the trunk.
You have to buy something else (trailer or carrier) to replace that loss.

Then you make excuses for your car lacking a trunk that others have.
Like "your car is waterproof" (even though the other cars are also).

On 11/27/2023 8:19 AM, Alan Browne wrote:
>>
>> But he is right.
>
> He manifestly is not. Apple do not make cars.

Yet!

A Chinese electronics company has just released a car, and there are
lots of rumours and facts that say an Apple Car could be due "soon" ...
some say 2026. It was due around 2020, but has had problems, not the
least of which is probably the pointlessly idiotic self-driving system
which has hopefully been abandoned.

On 2023-11-28 00:00:27 +0000, Larry Wolff said:
> On this Mon, 27 Nov 2023 08:18:45 -0500, Alan Browne wrote:
>>
>> Take data expansion. This means there is unused volume inside from the
>> start. Better to reclaim that (more battery) and sell it with more SSD
>> from the start. Less parts, more reliable. Seal the phone - better
>> water resistance.
>
> Your reasoning is absurd because you don't even know what an sd card does.
> And you are making up excuses about "water resistance" because it's absurd.
>
> How are you going to get portable memory with your dinky broken iPhone?

It's pretty easy to plug many external drives of various types into an
iPhone these days, which also makes it far easier to transfer files to
other devices than using a fiddly SD card since most computers don't
have SD readers built-in either.

On 2023-11-28 00:06:52 +0000, Larry Wolff said:
> On 11/27/2023 1:41 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>>
>> Anyway, it's nice to have the option of - *large* - memory expansion,
>> instead of getting stuck with a too small (storage) phone.
>
> As you said, it's nice is you can fill up any inexpensive 512GB card with
> photos & video & then pop in another card & fill up another 512GB.
>
> And another. And another. And another after that.
>
> But it's also portable.
>
> What no phone can do without the sd card is pop it out of one phone and put
> it in another phone and have all the data be available to the other phone.
>
> Very useful. The dinky half-baked iPhone can't do anything like that.

Because like the haedphone jack, it's a very niche market. Most normal
people don't bother, and have never bothered, fiddling about with silly
SD cards.

On 11/27/23 7:08 PM, Your Name wrote:
> On 2023-11-28 00:00:27 +0000, Larry Wolff said:
>> On this Mon, 27 Nov 2023 08:18:45 -0500, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>
>>> Take data expansion. This means there is unused volume inside from the
>>> start. Better to reclaim that (more battery) and sell it with more SSD
>>> from the start. Less parts, more reliable. Seal the phone - better
>>> water resistance.
>>
>> Your reasoning is absurd because you don't even know what an sd card does.
>> And you are making up excuses about "water resistance" because it's absurd.
>>
>> How are you going to get portable memory with your dinky broken iPhone?
>
> It's pretty easy to plug many external drives of various types into an
> iPhone these days, which also makes it far easier to transfer files to
> other devices than using a fiddly SD card since most computers don't
> have SD readers built-in either.

I use wifi. USB card readers are common and not all that expensive. I
used one for the card in my Canon camera back in the dark ages.

--
Cheers, Bev
Cthulhu for President in 2024. Why vote for a lesser evil?

On 2023-11-28 03:32:23 +0000, The Real Bev said:
> On 11/27/23 7:08 PM, Your Name wrote:
>> On 2023-11-28 00:00:27 +0000, Larry Wolff said:
>>> On this Mon, 27 Nov 2023 08:18:45 -0500, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Take data expansion. This means there is unused volume inside from the
>>>> start. Better to reclaim that (more battery) and sell it with more SSD
>>>> from the start. Less parts, more reliable. Seal the phone - better
>>>> water resistance.
>>>
>>> Your reasoning is absurd because you don't even know what an sd card does.
>>> And you are making up excuses about "water resistance" because it's absurd.
>>>
>>> How are you going to get portable memory with your dinky broken iPhone?
>>
>> It's pretty easy to plug many external drives of various types into an
>> iPhone these days, which also makes it far easier to transfer files to
>> other devices than using a fiddly SD card since most computers don't
>> have SD readers built-in either.
>
> I use wifi. USB card readers are common and not all that expensive. I
> used one for the card in my Canon camera back in the dark ages.

You can of course buy an extra adapter, but that kind of misses the point.

They're not really "common". Out of all the various people and small
businesses I help out, over the last 30+ years, *none* of them have
ever used an SD card or card reader, not even on their cameras (other
than the original it may have come with). :-)

Our own old Canon digital camera still has the original SD card it came
with in it and has never been removed either. It was far easier to plug
the camera into the computer with the cable.

On 2023-11-28 04:10, Your Name wrote:
> On 2023-11-28 00:06:52 +0000, Larry Wolff said:
>> On 11/27/2023 1:41 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>>>
>>> Anyway, it's nice to have the option of - *large* - memory expansion,
>>> instead of getting stuck with a too small (storage) phone.
>>
>> As you said, it's nice is you can fill up any inexpensive 512GB card with
>> photos & video & then pop in another card & fill up another 512GB.
>>
>> And another. And another. And another after that.
>>
>> But it's also portable.
>>
>> What no phone can do without the sd card is pop it out of one phone
>> and put
>> it in another phone and have all the data be available to the other
>> phone.
>>
>> Very useful. The dinky half-baked iPhone can't do anything like that.
>
> Because like the haedphone jack, it's a very niche market. Most normal
> people don't bother, and have never bothered, fiddling about with silly
> SD cards.

LOL, blanket statement again :-D

I have seen people doing it. Buy a new phone, initialize it, plug the
old memory card, hey presto, all the photos are transferred instantly.

Phone falls into water and is destroyed. Extract the memory card, dry it
out well, get all the photos safe.

Take the memory card out, plug into the laptop, instant access to all
the photos, backup them or whatever. Or plug the card into the TV set.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

Your Name <YourName@yourisp.com> wrote:
> On 2023-11-28 00:06:52 +0000, Larry Wolff said:
> > On 11/27/2023 1:41 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> >>
> >> Anyway, it's nice to have the option of - *large* - memory expansion,
> >> instead of getting stuck with a too small (storage) phone.
> >
> > As you said, it's nice is you can fill up any inexpensive 512GB card with
> > photos & video & then pop in another card & fill up another 512GB.
> >
> > And another. And another. And another after that.
> >
> > But it's also portable.
> >
> > What no phone can do without the sd card is pop it out of one phone and put
> > it in another phone and have all the data be available to the other phone.
> >
> > Very useful. The dinky half-baked iPhone can't do anything like that.
>
> Because like the haedphone jack, it's a very niche market. Most normal
> people don't bother, and have never bothered, fiddling about with silly
> SD cards.

What you both have 'overlooked' is that I was *not* talking about
"fiddling" with (Micro) SD-cards, but about using *one* as a - large -
*memory expansion*, i.e. insert *once*, no "fiddling" required.

But, as Carlos mentioned, there are other situations where 'fiddling'
- i.e. *data exchange between devices* - can be very worthwhile.

That these scenarios are much harder or impossible without a SD-card
slot, makes the footstamping of the Apple crowd even sillier. Just
accept that there are differences - *both* 'ways' - and move on. No need
to get your knickers in a twist.

BTW, why do cameras have a memory-card slot? Can't they just be
equipped with enough memory, like any other sane device?

On 11/27/23 9:54 PM, Your Name wrote:
> On 2023-11-28 03:32:23 +0000, The Real Bev said:
>> On 11/27/23 7:08 PM, Your Name wrote:
>>> On 2023-11-28 00:00:27 +0000, Larry Wolff said:
>>>> On this Mon, 27 Nov 2023 08:18:45 -0500, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Take data expansion. This means there is unused volume inside from the
>>>>> start. Better to reclaim that (more battery) and sell it with more SSD
>>>>> from the start. Less parts, more reliable. Seal the phone - better
>>>>> water resistance.
>>>>
>>>> Your reasoning is absurd because you don't even know what an sd card does.
>>>> And you are making up excuses about "water resistance" because it's absurd.
>>>>
>>>> How are you going to get portable memory with your dinky broken iPhone?
>>>
>>> It's pretty easy to plug many external drives of various types into an
>>> iPhone these days, which also makes it far easier to transfer files to
>>> other devices than using a fiddly SD card since most computers don't
>>> have SD readers built-in either.
>>
>> I use wifi. USB card readers are common and not all that expensive. I
>> used one for the card in my Canon camera back in the dark ages.
>
> You can of course buy an extra adapter, but that kind of misses the point.
>
> They're not really "common". Out of all the various people and small
> businesses I help out, over the last 30+ years, *none* of them have
> ever used an SD card or card reader, not even on their cameras (other
> than the original it may have come with). :-)

I bought my first digital camera in 1999. People had them years
previously. How did they transfer files if not by a separate card
reader? Computers did not commonly have card slots and cameras did not
have wifi/USB capability. At least mine didn't.

> Our own old Canon digital camera still has the original SD card it came
> with in it and has never been removed either. It was far easier to plug
> the camera into the computer with the cable.

--
Cheers, Bev
"We're from the Government. We're here to help."

On 11/28/2023 11:46 AM, The Real Bev wrote:

>> You can of course buy an extra adapter, but that kind of misses the point.
>>
>> They're not really "common". Out of all the various people and small
>> businesses I help out, over the last 30+ years, *none* of them have
>> ever used an SD card or card reader, not even on their cameras (other
>> than the original it may have come with). :-)
>
> I bought my first digital camera in 1999. People had them years
> previously. How did they transfer files if not by a separate card
> reader? Computers did not commonly have card slots and cameras did not
> have wifi/USB capability. At least mine didn't.

There isn't anything a phone without sd can do that a phone with it can't.

But there are many things you can do with a phone with sd that you can't do
without sd but of course you can purchase all sorts of kludges to do them.

Those ugly kludges are a required necessity for iPhone owners, for example.

Most important, anyone who has the sd card option can still add those ugly
kludges if they really want to add klugdes - but it's an option for them.

These ugly expensive kludges are always a necessity for iPhone owners.
They're an option for Android owners.

That's the difference.

On 11/28/2023 6:49 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

>>> Very useful. The dinky half-baked iPhone can't do anything like that.
>>
>> Because like the haedphone jack, it's a very niche market. Most normal
>> people don't bother, and have never bothered, fiddling about with silly
>> SD cards.
>
> LOL, blanket statement again :-D
>
> I have seen people doing it. Buy a new phone, initialize it, plug the
> old memory card, hey presto, all the photos are transferred instantly.
>
> Phone falls into water and is destroyed. Extract the memory card, dry it
> out well, get all the photos safe.
>
> Take the memory card out, plug into the laptop, instant access to all
> the photos, backup them or whatever. Or plug the card into the TV set.

All good examples of the very many ways an sd card is a useful choice.

The iPhone owners don't have that choice.
So they're always telling us their expensive ugly kludges are better.

But an Android owner can add those very same expensive ugly kludges too.
So there's nothing a phone without the sd does that a phone with it can't.

The difference is that the iPhone owner MUST use the expensive kludges.
The Android owner has the choice of not wasting money on the ugly kludges.

That's the difference.
The Android owner has every option the iPhone owner has, plus many more.

Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>> Because like the haedphone jack, it's a very niche market. Most normal
>> people don't bother, and have never bothered, fiddling about with silly
>> SD cards.
>
> What you both have 'overlooked' is that I was *not* talking about
> "fiddling" with (Micro) SD-cards, but about using *one* as a - large -
> *memory expansion*, i.e. insert *once*, no "fiddling" required.
>
> But, as Carlos mentioned, there are other situations where 'fiddling'
> - i.e. *data exchange between devices* - can be very worthwhile.
>
> That these scenarios are much harder or impossible without a SD-card
> slot, makes the footstamping of the Apple crowd even sillier. Just
> accept that there are differences - *both* 'ways' - and move on. No need
> to get your knickers in a twist.
>
> BTW, why do cameras have a memory-card slot? Can't they just be
> equipped with enough memory, like any other sane device?

You are correct the Apple people make sd all about their work arounds.

But the Android phone with sd can add all the Apple work arounds too.
That shows there's no advantage that not having the sd adds to a phone.

Only disadvantages.

As you stated, what sd adds is UNIQUE CAPABILITY you can't have without it.

Carlos E. R. wrote on Tue, 28 Nov 2023 12:49:55 +0100 :

>> Because like the haedphone jack, it's a very niche market. Most normal
>> people don't bother, and have never bothered, fiddling about with silly
>> SD cards.
>
> LOL, blanket statement again :-D
>
> I have seen people doing it. Buy a new phone, initialize it, plug the
> old memory card, hey presto, all the photos are transferred instantly.
>
> Phone falls into water and is destroyed. Extract the memory card, dry it
> out well, get all the photos safe.
>
> Take the memory card out, plug into the laptop, instant access to all
> the photos, backup them or whatever. Or plug the card into the TV set.

What's this "fiddling about with silly SD cards" that nobody is doing?

In my experience, most people who have the sd card bay add the sd card when
they buy the phone and that's the last time they ever "fiddle" with it.

That very first day they set their camera output to save to that sd card.
That's all the "fiddling" most people do with their Android phone sd cards.

When that card fills up, they usually offload the data onto a computer,
(which doesn't necessitate ever "fiddling" with the SD card at all).

It seems the posters complaining about "fiddling" have never used sd cards.

On 2023-11-28 18:18, Andrew wrote:
> Carlos E. R. wrote on Tue, 28 Nov 2023 12:49:55 +0100 :
>
>>> Because like the haedphone jack, it's a very niche market. Most normal
>>> people don't bother, and have never bothered, fiddling about with silly
>>> SD cards.
>>
>> LOL, blanket statement again :-D
>>
>> I have seen people doing it. Buy a new phone, initialize it, plug the
>> old memory card, hey presto, all the photos are transferred instantly.
>>
>> Phone falls into water and is destroyed. Extract the memory card, dry it
>> out well, get all the photos safe.
>>
>> Take the memory card out, plug into the laptop, instant access to all
>> the photos, backup them or whatever. Or plug the card into the TV set.
>
> What's this "fiddling about with silly SD cards" that nobody is doing?

Blank statement again, that I know first hand is false; thus the rest of
your post doesn't have validity.

Nobody is doing? Really?

>
> In my experience, most people who have the sd card bay add the sd card when
> they buy the phone and that's the last time they ever "fiddle" with it.
>
> That very first day they set their camera output to save to that sd card.
> That's all the "fiddling" most people do with their Android phone sd cards.
>
> When that card fills up, they usually offload the data onto a computer,
> (which doesn't necessitate ever "fiddling" with the SD card at all).
>
> It seems the posters complaining about "fiddling" have never used sd cards.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 2023-11-28 16:22, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Your Name <YourName@yourisp.com> wrote:
>> On 2023-11-28 00:06:52 +0000, Larry Wolff said:
>>> On 11/27/2023 1:41 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, it's nice to have the option of - *large* - memory expansion,
>>>> instead of getting stuck with a too small (storage) phone.
>>>
>>> As you said, it's nice is you can fill up any inexpensive 512GB card with
>>> photos & video & then pop in another card & fill up another 512GB.
>>>
>>> And another. And another. And another after that.
>>>
>>> But it's also portable.
>>>
>>> What no phone can do without the sd card is pop it out of one phone and put
>>> it in another phone and have all the data be available to the other phone.
>>>
>>> Very useful. The dinky half-baked iPhone can't do anything like that.
>>
>> Because like the haedphone jack, it's a very niche market. Most normal
>> people don't bother, and have never bothered, fiddling about with silly
>> SD cards.
>
> What you both have 'overlooked' is that I was *not* talking about
> "fiddling" with (Micro) SD-cards, but about using *one* as a - large -
> *memory expansion*, i.e. insert *once*, no "fiddling" required.
>
> But, as Carlos mentioned, there are other situations where 'fiddling'
> - i.e. *data exchange between devices* - can be very worthwhile.
>
> That these scenarios are much harder or impossible without a SD-card
> slot, makes the footstamping of the Apple crowd even sillier. Just
> accept that there are differences - *both* 'ways' - and move on. No need
> to get your knickers in a twist.
>
> BTW, why do cameras have a memory-card slot? Can't they just be
> equipped with enough memory, like any other sane device?

:-)

Cheaper not to — for the manufacturer :-P

The buyer can buy different sizes of cards, and different speeds. Is he
going to do video? Is he going to do burst photography? He needs a
faster card, which is more expensive.

Is he going on a long trip? He may need several cards.

Is he shooting an event? He may need several cards during the event (and
several batteries).

Is he shooting an event? He might swap cards periodically so that an
assistant moves the photos to a computer to have them accessible in near
real time.

Oh, and the card can survive being immersed in water; the camera not.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 2023-11-28 16:46, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 11/27/23 9:54 PM, Your Name wrote:
>> On 2023-11-28 03:32:23 +0000, The Real Bev said:
>>> On 11/27/23 7:08 PM, Your Name wrote:
>>>> On 2023-11-28 00:00:27 +0000, Larry Wolff said:
>>>>> On this Mon, 27 Nov 2023 08:18:45 -0500, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Take data expansion.  This means there is unused volume inside
>>>>>> from the
>>>>>> start.  Better to reclaim that (more battery) and sell it with
>>>>>> more SSD
>>>>>> from the start.  Less parts, more reliable.  Seal the phone - better
>>>>>> water resistance.
>>>>>
>>>>> Your reasoning is absurd because you don't even know what an sd
>>>>> card does.
>>>>> And you are making up excuses about "water resistance" because it's
>>>>> absurd.
>>>>>
>>>>> How are you going to get portable memory with your dinky broken
>>>>> iPhone?
>>>>
>>>> It's pretty easy to plug many external drives of various types into an
>>>> iPhone these days, which also makes it far easier to transfer files to
>>>> other devices than using a fiddly SD card since most computers don't
>>>> have SD readers built-in either.
>>>
>>> I use wifi.  USB card readers are common and not all that expensive.
>>> I used one for the card in my Canon camera back in the dark ages.
>>
>> You can of course buy an extra adapter, but that kind of misses the
>> point.
>>
>> They're not really "common". Out of all the various people and small
>> businesses I help out, over the last 30+ years, *none* of them have
>> ever used an SD card or card reader, not even on their cameras (other
>> than the original it may have come with). :-)
>
> I bought my first digital camera in 1999.  People had them years
> previously.  How did they transfer files if not by a separate card
> reader?  Computers did not commonly have card slots and cameras did not
> have wifi/USB capability. At least mine didn't.

My first proper digital camera I got around 2010. Before that, I kept
using my film camera, I thought digital was low quality (low pixel
count) or prohibitively expensive.

I had some mobile phones with a camera of sorts before that year. These
had no memory card; instead, each phone came with a special cable and
required special software to copy the photos and other things (phone
book, SMS list) to the computer. The cables were USB on their computer side.

One phone took an unintended swim in the Mediterranean with me, and did
not survive. Some photos were lost. Another phone simply died, and some
photos were lost. No memory card.

I don't remember if they all came with the cable or I had to purchase
some separately.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 2023-11-27 18:27, Peter wrote:
> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>> Show me where I made such a claim.
>
> You're making claims a car without the trunk is as good as one with it.

No one has made that claim.

Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2023-11-28 16:22, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> > Your Name <YourName@yourisp.com> wrote:
> >> On 2023-11-28 00:06:52 +0000, Larry Wolff said:
> >>> On 11/27/2023 1:41 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Anyway, it's nice to have the option of - *large* - memory expansion,
> >>>> instead of getting stuck with a too small (storage) phone.
> >>>
> >>> As you said, it's nice is you can fill up any inexpensive 512GB card with
> >>> photos & video & then pop in another card & fill up another 512GB.
> >>>
> >>> And another. And another. And another after that.
> >>>
> >>> But it's also portable.
> >>>
> >>> What no phone can do without the sd card is pop it out of one phone and put
> >>> it in another phone and have all the data be available to the other phone.
> >>>
> >>> Very useful. The dinky half-baked iPhone can't do anything like that.
> >>
> >> Because like the haedphone jack, it's a very niche market. Most normal
> >> people don't bother, and have never bothered, fiddling about with silly
> >> SD cards.
> >
> > What you both have 'overlooked' is that I was *not* talking about
> > "fiddling" with (Micro) SD-cards, but about using *one* as a - large -
> > *memory expansion*, i.e. insert *once*, no "fiddling" required.
> >
> > But, as Carlos mentioned, there are other situations where 'fiddling'
> > - i.e. *data exchange between devices* - can be very worthwhile.
> >
> > That these scenarios are much harder or impossible without a SD-card
> > slot, makes the footstamping of the Apple crowd even sillier. Just
> > accept that there are differences - *both* 'ways' - and move on. No need
> > to get your knickers in a twist.
> >
> > BTW, why do cameras have a memory-card slot? Can't they just be
> > equipped with enough memory, like any other sane device?
>
> :-)
>
> Cheaper not to ? for the manufacturer :-P

Haven't you been paying to the Newsgroups header!? Money is no object
and the more of it goes to the manufacturer, the better, big profit is
good and all that jazz.

> The buyer can buy different sizes of cards, and different speeds. Is he
> going to do video? Is he going to do burst photography? He needs a
> faster card, which is more expensive.

Nonsense! Just make the internal storage big and fast enough,
'problem' solved. And what's with the "more expensive" bit? It's only
money, get over it!

> Is he going on a long trip? He may need several cards.

Nope. See above.

> Is he shooting an event? He may need several cards during the event (and
> several batteries).

Nope. See above. And he should have a big enough battery to start
with! Sheesh!

> Is he shooting an event? He might swap cards periodically so that an
> assistant moves the photos to a computer to have them accessible in near
> real time.

Doesn't the crap device have Wi-Fi (or a cable) to shoot and transfer
at the same time?

> Oh, and the card can survive being immersed in water; the camera not.

It's a camera, not a life-vest. Learn to know the difference!

Anyway, the data is already in the cloud, 'problem' solved.

"Yes dear, I'll take another one of the nice pink pills now."

On 2023-11-28 19:31, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2023-11-28 16:22, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>>> Your Name <YourName@yourisp.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2023-11-28 00:06:52 +0000, Larry Wolff said:
>>>>> On 11/27/2023 1:41 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway, it's nice to have the option of - *large* - memory expansion,
>>>>>> instead of getting stuck with a too small (storage) phone.
>>>>>
>>>>> As you said, it's nice is you can fill up any inexpensive 512GB card with
>>>>> photos & video & then pop in another card & fill up another 512GB.
>>>>>
>>>>> And another. And another. And another after that.
>>>>>
>>>>> But it's also portable.
>>>>>
>>>>> What no phone can do without the sd card is pop it out of one phone and put
>>>>> it in another phone and have all the data be available to the other phone.
>>>>>
>>>>> Very useful. The dinky half-baked iPhone can't do anything like that.
>>>>
>>>> Because like the haedphone jack, it's a very niche market. Most normal
>>>> people don't bother, and have never bothered, fiddling about with silly
>>>> SD cards.
>>>
>>> What you both have 'overlooked' is that I was *not* talking about
>>> "fiddling" with (Micro) SD-cards, but about using *one* as a - large -
>>> *memory expansion*, i.e. insert *once*, no "fiddling" required.
>>>
>>> But, as Carlos mentioned, there are other situations where 'fiddling'
>>> - i.e. *data exchange between devices* - can be very worthwhile.
>>>
>>> That these scenarios are much harder or impossible without a SD-card
>>> slot, makes the footstamping of the Apple crowd even sillier. Just
>>> accept that there are differences - *both* 'ways' - and move on. No need
>>> to get your knickers in a twist.
>>>
>>> BTW, why do cameras have a memory-card slot? Can't they just be
>>> equipped with enough memory, like any other sane device?
>>
>> :-)
>>
>> Cheaper not to ? for the manufacturer :-P
>
> Haven't you been paying to the Newsgroups header!? Money is no object
> and the more of it goes to the manufacturer, the better, big profit is
> good and all that jazz.

No, the cameras are designed to be as cheap as feasible, there is a lot
of competition. As long as you don't go for Apple cameras, which I don't
know if they exist :-p

Then, the (exclusive) accessories are very expensive, specially if only
the brand makes them.

This has always been so.

>
>> The buyer can buy different sizes of cards, and different speeds. Is he
>> going to do video? Is he going to do burst photography? He needs a
>> faster card, which is more expensive.
>
> Nonsense! Just make the internal storage big and fast enough,
> 'problem' solved. And what's with the "more expensive" bit? It's only
> money, get over it!

And way more expensive. It is crucial to get the user to buy an
affordable camera first, and then sell him expensive accesories.

>
>> Is he going on a long trip? He may need several cards.
>
> Nope. See above.

Nope. See above.

>
>> Is he shooting an event? He may need several cards during the event (and
>> several batteries).
>
> Nope. See above. And he should have a big enough battery to start
> with! Sheesh!

Nope. See above.

And no battery lasts an eight hour session. Far less.

>
>> Is he shooting an event? He might swap cards periodically so that an
>> assistant moves the photos to a computer to have them accessible in near
>> real time.
>
> Doesn't the crap device have Wi-Fi (or a cable) to shoot and transfer
> at the same time?

Sure. More battery usage and even more expensive camera, if you want to
download photos at real time speed.

BTDT.

>
>> Oh, and the card can survive being immersed in water; the camera not.
>
> It's a camera, not a life-vest. Learn to know the difference!

Cameras do not stand even rain.

>
> Anyway, the data is already in the cloud, 'problem' solved.

It is not.

>
> "Yes dear, I'll take another one of the nice pink pills now."

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

On 2023-11-27 21:08, Larry Wolff wrote:
> On 11/27/2023 9:12 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
>
>>> Your reasoning is absurd because you don't even know what an sd card does.
>>
>> Given I have nearly a dozen within reach right here right now, that is
>> quite the claim.
>
> All your arguments reek of you not understanding what you make absurd
> excuses for not having on that dinky cheap dollar-store iPhone of yours.

Hardly cheap. Great materials, long lasting. This iPhone is 4 years
old and looking to go to at least 6.

SO just decided she would keep her iPhone 7 for another year.

>
> You don't even know that sd works as portable storage, so it's absurd your
> claim that the only reason for an sd card is to augment internal storage.

I use SD cards for a variety of things including: photography, video
(incl. drones). Embedded computer software development, bootstrap,
storage (and data transport).

But. Not to "augment internal storage" of anything.

> Although it does also augment the internal storage.
> Your dinky dollar-store cheap plastic iPhone can't do any of that.

It's mostly metal and glass, actually. You need to get out more.

>
>>> And you are making up excuses about "water resistance" because it's absurd.
>>
>> And of course any device that has a "port" or is conveniently opened is
>> at higher risk of water damage. iPhones on the other hand have great
>> water resistance and have been demonstrated to exceed their spec for
>> time and depth by multiples.
>
> Phones with ports have fine water resistance.

Phones w/o: better. Mechanics. It's a thing.

Apple: << These models have a rating of IP68 under IEC standard 60529
(maximum depth of 4 meters up to 30 minutes):

iPhone 11 Pro
iPhone 11 Pro Max >>

And later models have 6 m ratings from Apple.

Yet someone out there did a test to over 10 metres for over an hour and
their iPhone 11 Pro came out fine (speakers sounded wonky for a few
days...).

>
> You're just making absurd excuses because you don't have the aux port
> in that cheap dinky plastic dollar-store iPhone of yours.

Don't need to want it. Hardly would make excuses about it. You're too
cute.

>
>>> How are you going to get portable memory with your dinky broken iPhone?
>>
>> It is my portable memory. I often encrypted volumes of data at work to
>> bring home for storage using my iPhone as the data carrier. Quite fast
>> and convenient esp. using the AirDrop feature on both ends of the
>> transaction.
>
> See. You don't even understand the slightest of what portable memory means.
>
> Nor do you understand that you can capture 512GB of media and then do it
> again, and again, and again (all day, every day) using those sd cards.

No need for it. Photography might go 2 GB on a big day, and drone
photography 15 - 30 GB of video.

>
> you can't do anything like that in your cheap plastic dinky iPhone.
> Every excuse you made is absurd because you don't understand any of this.

You're so funny Arlen. Broken record pathetic funny.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

On 2023-11-28 10:22, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Your Name <YourName@yourisp.com> wrote:
>> On 2023-11-28 00:06:52 +0000, Larry Wolff said:
>>> On 11/27/2023 1:41 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, it's nice to have the option of - *large* - memory expansion,
>>>> instead of getting stuck with a too small (storage) phone.
>>>
>>> As you said, it's nice is you can fill up any inexpensive 512GB card with
>>> photos & video & then pop in another card & fill up another 512GB.
>>>
>>> And another. And another. And another after that.
>>>
>>> But it's also portable.
>>>
>>> What no phone can do without the sd card is pop it out of one phone and put
>>> it in another phone and have all the data be available to the other phone.
>>>
>>> Very useful. The dinky half-baked iPhone can't do anything like that.
>>
>> Because like the haedphone jack, it's a very niche market. Most normal
>> people don't bother, and have never bothered, fiddling about with silly
>> SD cards.
>
> What you both have 'overlooked' is that I was *not* talking about
> "fiddling" with (Micro) SD-cards, but about using *one* as a - large -
> *memory expansion*, i.e. insert *once*, no "fiddling" required.
>
> But, as Carlos mentioned, there are other situations where 'fiddling'
> - i.e. *data exchange between devices* - can be very worthwhile.
>
> That these scenarios are much harder or impossible without a SD-card
> slot, makes the footstamping of the Apple crowd even sillier. Just
> accept that there are differences - *both* 'ways' - and move on. No need
> to get your knickers in a twist.

We're not in a twist at all. It's fanatic Arlen (who I really should
just ignore) who goes bananas over iPhone "kooks").

He needs professional help and we need to ignore trolls.

> BTW, why do cameras have a memory-card slot? Can't they just be
> equipped with enough memory, like any other sane device?

When I'm shooting I usually carry 2 - 3 cards plus the 2 cards in the
camera. Full frame fills cards fast when shooting raw. I can often
"make do" with the 2 cards but sometimes I overflow into one or 2 more.

On travel (personal), I also bring a card reader and backup those cards
to the laptop.

The drone cards fill fast - but then the batteries last 25 - 30 minutes
(practically - flights are about 20 minutes), so a single SD per drone
per outing is enough (usually). 3 batts per drone - change between
flights of course.

But of course none of these things are smartphones.

And they don't have FM receivers.

And the aux jacks they have have nothing to do with audio.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote

>> Anyway, the data is already in the cloud, 'problem' solved.
>
> It is not.

Hi Carlos,
I'm not sure you responded to Franks rather humorous jokes as if you knew
they were jokes. They were all pretty funny. Sarcastically so.

The Apple iKooks pay through the nose for everything, and then in the very
end they croon that they get a tiny but of some of that money back in what
they call 'resale value' (which doesn't take into account full costs.

The iKooks are _desperate_ for that so-called 'resale value' after all.

On 2023-11-28 21:34, Wally J wrote:
> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
>
>>> Anyway, the data is already in the cloud, 'problem' solved.
>>
>> It is not.
>
> Hi Carlos,
> I'm not sure you responded to Franks rather humorous jokes as if you knew
> they were jokes. They were all pretty funny. Sarcastically so.

We were not talking of Apples, but cameras, full bodied cameras. You can
not put into the cloud the big sized photos a camera generates during a
session, in real time.

So memory cards are needed on cameras, and more than one. You can not
use internal memory for this purpose.

I don't see any joke here.

>
> The Apple iKooks pay through the nose for everything, and then in the very
> end they croon that they get a tiny but of some of that money back in what
> they call 'resale value' (which doesn't take into account full costs.
>
> The iKooks are _desperate_ for that so-called 'resale value' after all.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.