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computers / comp.sys.dec / FILMGR on RSTS circa 1982?

SubjectAuthor
* FILMGR on RSTS circa 1982?jfoust
+* Re: FILMGR on RSTS circa 1982?Scott Dorsey
|`* Re: FILMGR on RSTS circa 1982?jfoust
| `* Re: FILMGR on RSTS circa 1982?Scott Dorsey
|  `- Re: FILMGR on RSTS circa 1982?jfoust
`* Re: FILMGR on RSTS circa 1982?willhartung
 `* Re: FILMGR on RSTS circa 1982?jfoust
  `- Re: FILMGR on RSTS circa 1982?Bob Eager

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Subject: FILMGR on RSTS circa 1982?
From: jfo...@gmail.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2019 19:51 UTC
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Subject: FILMGR on RSTS circa 1982?
From: jfo...@gmail.com
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I'm trying to decipher some files from a circa 1982 RSTS backup.  One tape contains several *.FLB files.  They're relatively large - a meg or more. 

A note on one of the tapes from an admin to users at the time recommends "Learn how to use FILMGR, which is invoked by DO FILMGR. It keeps storage space down."

Sounds like archiving and maybe compression.  Google is no help.  I looked at DECUS RSTS lists and didn't see it.

The files have a 512 byte header and I have spotted RAD-50 filenames at positions 8, 16, etc.  Sometimes the contents could be binary or maybe run-length compressed, sometimes just raw.

Does anyone remember a program called FILMGR for RSTS/e 7 circa 1982?  Did "FLB" mean "file library"?

- John


Subject: Re: FILMGR on RSTS circa 1982?
From: Scott Dorsey
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
Organization: Former users of Netcom shell (1989-2000)
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2019 21:05 UTC
References: 1
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From: klu...@panix.com (Scott Dorsey)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
Subject: Re: FILMGR on RSTS circa 1982?
Date: 14 Dec 2019 16:05:59 -0500
Organization: Former users of Netcom shell (1989-2000)
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 <jfoust@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm trying to decipher some files from a circa 1982 RSTS backup.  One tape contains several *.FLB files.  They're relatively large - a meg or more. 

They are FMS-11 form library manager files.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


Subject: Re: FILMGR on RSTS circa 1982?
From: jfo...@gmail.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2019 02:55 UTC
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Subject: Re: FILMGR on RSTS circa 1982?
From: jfo...@gmail.com
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On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 3:06:00 PM UTC-6, Scott Dorsey wrote:
<jfoust@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm trying to decipher some files from a circa 1982 RSTS backup.  One tape contains several *.FLB files.  They're relatively large - a meg or more. 

They are FMS-11 form library manager files.

Thank you!  I see the FMS-11 docs say it uses ".FLB" files, but the contents I can see in a hex dump do not confirm that possibility.  The smaller FLB files contain bits of program code and uncompressed text files, making me think the library program didn't bother to compress the last partial block.

FMS-11 also doesn't explain their rather large size.  The RAD-50 filenames I spotted inside are like I24J19.DAT, K82LOG.DAT.  Not the source code I was hoping for - maybe some kind of login/logout logs, or program usage logs.

- John


Subject: Re: FILMGR on RSTS circa 1982?
From: Scott Dorsey
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
Organization: Former users of Netcom shell (1989-2000)
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2019 14:40 UTC
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From: klu...@panix.com (Scott Dorsey)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
Subject: Re: FILMGR on RSTS circa 1982?
Date: 16 Dec 2019 09:40:22 -0500
Organization: Former users of Netcom shell (1989-2000)
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 <jfoust@gmail.com> wrote:
On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 3:06:00 PM UTC-6, Scott Dorsey wrote:
<jfoust@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm trying to decipher some files from a circa 1982 RSTS backup.  One ta=
pe contains several *.FLB files.  They're relatively large - a meg or more.=
=20
=20
They are FMS-11 form library manager files.

Thank you!  I see the FMS-11 docs say it uses ".FLB" files, but the content=
s I can see in a hex dump do not confirm that possibility.  The smaller FLB=
files contain bits of program code and uncompressed text files, making me =
think the library program didn't bother to compress the last partial block.

FMS-11 also doesn't explain their rather large size.  The RAD-50 filenames =
I spotted inside are like I24J19.DAT, K82LOG.DAT.  Not the source code I wa=
s hoping for - maybe some kind of login/logout logs, or program usage logs.=

If it's some goofy archive scheme, it's not one I ever heard of, and I would
be a little alarmed if they used such a common file extension for it.  But
if it's some goofy archive scheme, the code for it is almost certainly on
the DECUS tapes.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


Subject: Re: FILMGR on RSTS circa 1982?
From: jfo...@gmail.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2019 17:24 UTC
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Subject: Re: FILMGR on RSTS circa 1982?
From: jfo...@gmail.com
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On Monday, December 16, 2019 at 8:40:24 AM UTC-6, Scott Dorsey wrote:

If it's some goofy archive scheme, it's not one I ever heard of, and I would
be a little alarmed if they used such a common file extension for it.  But
if it's some goofy archive scheme, the code for it is almost certainly on
the DECUS tapes.

Maybe FILMGR was a proprietary tool developed at UW-Madison.  Among the thousands of files on this backup set, I have found some code I'd written back in '82 that burst these FLB archives into their constituent files. 

- John




Subject: Re: FILMGR on RSTS circa 1982?
From: willhart...@gmail.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2020 21:28 UTC
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Subject: Re: FILMGR on RSTS circa 1982?
From: willhart...@gmail.com
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On Saturday, December 14, 2019 at 11:51:47 AM UTC-8, jfo...@gmail.com wrote:
Does anyone remember a program called FILMGR for RSTS/e 7 circa 1982?  Did "FLB" mean "file library"?

Boy, I do remember FILMGR.

At least, I remember something called "FIL", which is how we invoked it.

And it was a simple library program. I do no recall what the files it left behind were. And I don't recall it actually compressing the files. I don't believe so.

Rather, it's gift was simply eliminating (at least reducing) the overhead on individual files. Such as minimum block sizes and such.

In school our accounts were limited to 100 blocks of quota. That's 50K to you and me. Not a whole lot. So, cramming a bunch of small program files (like class assignments) together could save quite a few net blocks in your account.

And I do recall that you could easily delete the actual library file. DAMHIK.

Anyway, our little "elite" clique of RSTS folks used it religiously, it was one of our little secrets. Even the system managers weren't really familiar with it.





Subject: Re: FILMGR on RSTS circa 1982?
From: jfo...@gmail.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2020 19:07 UTC
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Subject: Re: FILMGR on RSTS circa 1982?
From: jfo...@gmail.com
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On Thursday, February 6, 2020 at 3:28:53 PM UTC-6, willh...@gmail.com wrote:
Boy, I do remember FILMGR.

I wrote a little tool in C for Windows to burst FLB files into their constituent files.  It properly extracts them and sets their date and time.

I'd forgotten that I'd written a tool in BASIC to do much the same
thing, back in '82.  I found it among the rest of these files.

The code showed where the RAD-50 filenames were, and where the
offsets were, so it wasn't too hard.  Fortunately there was no
compression in these FLB files.  I'll try to remember to add
the code to one of my web sites in case someone needs this
in the future.

So what was the usefulness of archiving without any compression?
Just logical grouping of a collection of files, short of putting
everything under a separate PPN?

- John


Subject: Re: FILMGR on RSTS circa 1982?
From: Bob Eager
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2020 20:50 UTC
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From: news0...@eager.cx (Bob Eager)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec
Subject: Re: FILMGR on RSTS circa 1982?
Date: 12 Feb 2020 20:50:08 GMT
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On Wed, 12 Feb 2020 11:07:55 -0800, jfoust wrote:

I'd forgotten that I'd written a tool in BASIC to do much the same
thing,
back in '82.  I found it among the rest of these files.

Ha ha! I'm not the only one...

A while ago I needed a program for a one off job on a PC; it had to be in
PC BASIC, for various reasons.

I trawled the net and found a suitable one eventually. It worked
perfectly.

I idly examined the source, which seemed vaguely familiar. Turns out I
wrote it 15 years earlier, but no longer had a copy myself.


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