I installed MSDOS first then WP, so now XP controlled the swithcing between
booting MSDOS or booting XP.

When I install Linux, will grub replace the Windows boot loader or include it
as a submenu on grub?

And If I don't like this, how do I put it all on grub?

--
Vasos Panagiotopoulos panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---

I believe most Linux distros will detect the MS-Windows file system
partition(s) and ask if you want to add a grub menu item for the MS-Windows
file system partition(s).

At Sun, 26 Feb 2023 19:59:16 -0000 (UTC) vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com wrote:

>
> I installed MSDOS first then WP, so now XP controlled the swithcing between
> booting MSDOS or booting XP.
>
> When I install Linux, will grub replace the Windows boot loader or include it
> as a submenu on grub?
>
> And If I don't like this, how do I put it all on grub?
>

--
Robert Heller -- Cell: 413-658-7953 GV: 978-633-5364
Deepwoods Software -- Custom Software Services
http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Linux Administration Services
heller@deepsoft.com -- Webhosting Services

On 2/26/23 2:59 PM, vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com wrote:
> I installed MSDOS first then WP, so now XP controlled the swithcing between
> booting MSDOS or booting XP.
>
> When I install Linux, will grub replace the Windows boot loader or include it
> as a submenu on grub?
>
> And If I don't like this, how do I put it all on grub?

GRUB2 replaces the DOS/Win bootloader. It searches the disk(s)
to see what's there are creates its own menu entries.

Problem - if you get too aggressive with Win fixes it may
wipe out GRUB2 and re-install the Win bootloader. M$ is
convinced it owns the compuverse. However there are some
rescue utilities that can re-install GRUB2 afterwards
without you having to install some kind of new Linux.

At Sun, 26 Feb 2023 23:10:56 -0500 "28A.I873" <28A.I873@noabzba.net> wrote:

>
> On 2/26/23 2:59 PM, vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com wrote:
> > I installed MSDOS first then WP, so now XP controlled the swithcing between
> > booting MSDOS or booting XP.
> >
> > When I install Linux, will grub replace the Windows boot loader or include it
> > as a submenu on grub?
> >
> > And If I don't like this, how do I put it all on grub?
>
> GRUB2 replaces the DOS/Win bootloader. It searches the disk(s)
> to see what's there are creates its own menu entries.
>
> Problem - if you get too aggressive with Win fixes it may
> wipe out GRUB2 and re-install the Win bootloader. M$ is
> convinced it owns the compuverse. However there are some
> rescue utilities that can re-install GRUB2 afterwards
> without you having to install some kind of new Linux.
>

Many Linux distros have utilities to create / burn a "rescue/boot" CD --
always a good thing to have. Also, the Linux live/install CD can be used as a
rescue/boot disk.

>

--
Robert Heller -- Cell: 413-658-7953 GV: 978-633-5364
Deepwoods Software -- Custom Software Services
http://www.deepsoft.com/ -- Linux Administration Services
heller@deepsoft.com -- Webhosting Services

On 2/27/23 12:13 AM, Robert Heller wrote:
> At Sun, 26 Feb 2023 23:10:56 -0500 "28A.I873" <28A.I873@noabzba.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> On 2/26/23 2:59 PM, vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com wrote:
>>> I installed MSDOS first then WP, so now XP controlled the swithcing between
>>> booting MSDOS or booting XP.
>>>
>>> When I install Linux, will grub replace the Windows boot loader or include it
>>> as a submenu on grub?
>>>
>>> And If I don't like this, how do I put it all on grub?
>>
>> GRUB2 replaces the DOS/Win bootloader. It searches the disk(s)
>> to see what's there are creates its own menu entries.
>>
>> Problem - if you get too aggressive with Win fixes it may
>> wipe out GRUB2 and re-install the Win bootloader. M$ is
>> convinced it owns the compuverse. However there are some
>> rescue utilities that can re-install GRUB2 afterwards
>> without you having to install some kind of new Linux.
>>
>
> Many Linux distros have utilities to create / burn a "rescue/boot" CD --
> always a good thing to have. Also, the Linux live/install CD can be used as a
> rescue/boot disk.

Mostly ... but a regular distro will have you
just run "update-grub" and then you'll have a
menu that also contains the disto on the stick,
likely seeing it as your "main" distro.

Easy enough to fix once you CAN boot to yer favorite
on on the HDD of course, but it's a two-step process
usually. Had to do something like this a few months
ago for a Win+Lin box. My 'ideal' is several Linux
distros on the HDD and NO Winders :-)

Groovy hepcat vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com was jivin' in
comp.os.linux.misc on Mon, 27 Feb 2023 06:59 am. It's a cool scene! Dig
it.

> I installed MSDOS first then WP, so now XP controlled the swithcing

I don't know what WP is. Is that a typo? Did you mean XP?

> between booting MSDOS or booting XP.
>
> When I install Linux, will grub replace the Windows boot loader or
> include it as a submenu on grub?

It will not touch your DOS/Losedows boot loader, which resides in that
system's partition. Grub is a multi-stage boot loader. Its first stage
can be installed to either the MBR (master boot record - the first
sector of the drive) or to a partition. In either case (unless you
install it in your DOS partition) it will not interfere with the
original boot loader.
Actually, even DOS and its derivatives use a two stage boot loader,
but the first stage is really just a stub, only loading in the real
boot loader. This first stage stub resides in the MBR. It just
determines the "active" partition from the partition table (also in the
MBR) then loads and runs the real boot loader from the first sector of
this partition.
Anyhow, while grub is installing, it will usually detect other
installed systems and create entries for them in the boot menu. Under
some circumstances this will not be done. But it is possible to
configure it yourself.
Assuming you're installing any reasonably recent Linux, and you'll be
using grub 2, the procedure is as follows:

1) open /etc/grub.d/40_custom with a text editor,

2) add an entry for the system, such as (changing the "set root="
parameters to suit your setup, of course):

menuentry 'Microstuffed Losedows XP' {
insmod part_msdos
insmod ntfs
set root='hd0,msdos1'
chainloader +1
}

3) save and close the file, and finally,

4) run update-grub (as root).

> And If I don't like this, how do I put it all on grub?

That depends on how you've set up DOS & XP. I'm not so familiar with
running both of those from the same drive and sharing a bootloader, so
I will not comment on that. But it might be possible to add an entry
for both of those using the procedure outlined above.

--

----- Dig the NEW and IMPROVED news sig!! -----

-------------- Shaggy was here! ---------------
Ain't I'm a dawg!!

For what it's worth Linpus won't install from USB with ventoy,
so the problem may be broader that I thought

--
Vasos Panagiotopoulos panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---

On 2023-03-17, vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com wrote:

> For what it's worth Linpus won't install from USB with ventoy,
> so the problem may be broader that I thought

Any message? How far does it get?

(And how far are the different systems you are trying from USB and
optical media getting in the boot/install process?)

What is the disk controller on the machine you are having these troubles
with?

--
Nuno Silva

On 2023-02-27 05:10, 28A.I873 wrote:
> On 2/26/23 2:59 PM, vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com wrote:
>> I installed  MSDOS first then WP, so now XP controlled the swithcing
>> between
>> booting MSDOS or booting XP.
>>
>> When I install Linux, will grub replace the Windows boot loader or
>> include it
>> as a submenu on grub?
>>
>> And If I don't like this, how do I put it all on grub?
>
>   GRUB2 replaces the DOS/Win bootloader. It searches the disk(s)
>   to see what's there are creates its own menu entries.

Maybe, maybe not. Depends how you install it.

It is XP, which means traditional partitions, not GPT.

You can leave in the MBR Grub or a Generic Boot Record. The later will
look at what partition is marked bootable (which can be either the
Windows partitition or the partition that contains Grub), and boot it.
You just change the mark with a proper partitioner software, and the
system that has the boot control changes.

The problem is, that Windows will bail out when doing major upgrade. In
my words of 2016 (with Windows 10):

«When Windows (I boot it about once a month) tries to do certain updates
(not others) it says that the update failed to be applied for some
obscure reason (no, they are unable to figure it out in their help
sites). I figured long ago that this is because it does not see
partition #1 as bootable. Ie, that Windows is not in control of the boot
process.»

Or, you can use "altmbr.bin" from syslinux.

In short (as done with openSUSE):

+++·····················
echo -e -n '\004' > x ### should create x as a 1 byte binary 4
cat /usr/share/syslinux/altmbr.bin x > altmbr.4

That creates the file "altmbr.4" which is based on the syslinux
"altmbr.bin" generic boot code. It will always boot partition 4,
regardless of the active flag.

So now install that in the MBR, and set the active flag for partition
1 (to keep windows happy). And you will still boot with the grub menu.
·····················++-

This method works very well with Windows, which does not overwrite it,
even with major updates. At most, it can replace the MBR with another
one. No problem, you use any linux rescue usb to replace it again with
your altmbr.4 or altmbr.3 or altmbr.2 (wherever your Linux partition is).

>
>   Problem - if you get too aggressive with Win fixes it may
>   wipe out GRUB2 and re-install the Win bootloader. M$ is
>   convinced it owns the compuverse. However there are some
>   rescue utilities that can re-install GRUB2 afterwards
>   without you having to install some kind of new Linux.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2023-03-18 10:36, Nuno Silva wrote:
> On 2023-03-17, vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com wrote:
>
>> For what it's worth Linpus won't install from USB with ventoy,
>> so the problem may be broader that I thought
>
> Any message? How far does it get?
>
> (And how far are the different systems you are trying from USB and
> optical media getting in the boot/install process?)
>
> What is the disk controller on the machine you are having these troubles
> with?
>

If there are no free partitions or disk space, some installers offer to
shrink windows, but I think not all. They may expect the user to make
that free space first with some other tool.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2023-03-19, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

> If there are no free partitions or disk space, some installers offer to
> shrink windows, but I think not all. They may expect the user to make
> that free space first with some other tool.

Windows places a Master File Table (MFT) smack in the middle of
the partition. The MFT is not movable, so the most you can shrink
the Windows partition is to half its size. However, PerfectDisk
(https://www.raxco.com) can move the MFT to the middle of a partition
that you've shrunk, immediately after re-booting.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | You can't save the earth
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | unless you're willing to
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | make other people sacrifice.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Dogbert the green consultant

On 3/20/23 08:16, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2023-03-19, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>> If there are no free partitions or disk space, some installers offer to
>> shrink windows, but I think not all. They may expect the user to make
>> that free space first with some other tool.
>
> Windows places a Master File Table (MFT) smack in the middle of
> the partition. The MFT is not movable, so the most you can shrink
> the Windows partition is to half its size. However, PerfectDisk
> (https://www.raxco.com) can move the MFT to the middle of a partition
> that you've shrunk, immediately after re-booting.
>
Oh you can shrink the partition further by reducing the space reserved
for the swap directories. Use the Windows tools to do that
and to create space for Linux.

bliss - When in doubt, tell the truth. (Mark Twain)

--
bliss dash SF 4 ever at dslextreme dot com

On 2023-03-20 16:16, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2023-03-19, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>> If there are no free partitions or disk space, some installers offer to
>> shrink windows, but I think not all. They may expect the user to make
>> that free space first with some other tool.
>
> Windows places a Master File Table (MFT) smack in the middle of
> the partition. The MFT is not movable, so the most you can shrink
> the Windows partition is to half its size. However, PerfectDisk
> (https://www.raxco.com) can move the MFT to the middle of a partition
> that you've shrunk, immediately after re-booting.
>

I meant:

If there are no free partitions or disk space, some installers offer to
shrink Windows, but I think not all installers do so. They may expect
the user to make that free space first with some other tool.

I did not meant shrink the entire partition.

--
Cheers, Carlos.