On 2023-04-03 12:57, Pancho wrote:
> On 03/04/2023 02:40, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 2023-04-02 23:34, Pancho wrote:
>>> On 4/1/23 23:06, Fritz Wuehler wrote:
>>>> Pancho <Pancho.Jo...@Proton.Me> [P]:
>>>> P> The problem with android VoIP softphones is that they tend to
>>>> P> deregister. So the ring isn't reliable.
>>>>
>>>> You just don't get it, do you? Calling a device by its (LAN) IP has
>>>> no need for registration. Try it some time and see how it goes.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, that is a good point. But difficult to test, reliably. VoIP
>>> already works, most of the time.
>>>
>>> Also, I don't know if my IP address does change regularly. Obviously,
>>> it does when the phone moves between my wlan and the mobile/cell
>>> network,
>>
>> You forget we are talking of LAN alone.
>
> No, I understand that, but I have 10 years experience of Android VoIP
> softphones being unreliable. I'm not sure why they are unreliable, just
> a history of mild interest, and consequent prejudice.
>
> Someone can say my issues are due to changing external IP, that it won't
> happen in a LAN environment, and they may be right, but I don't have
> evidence of that.
>
> Suggesting one potential failure mechanism does not exclude other
> mechanisms. You haven't excluded the possibility that aggressive power
> saving requirements, and consequent sleep states, cause the problem.
>
> If someone could point to real life experience of an Andorid VoIP
> clients working reliably on a LAN, with direct IP calls, or probably
> more tractably via a LAN base PBX such as Asterisk, I would be more
> convinced.

Have you tried to setup a phone VoIP client without a registrar, on the
LAN? It is a different beast altogether.

Yes, of course it can fail, that is not the point.

And I am not going to use for my use case, but that is not the point either.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Pancho <Pancho.Jo...@proton.me> [P]:
P> If someone could point to real life experience of an Andorid
P> VoIP client working reliably on a LAN, with direct IP calls,
P> or probably more tractably via a LAN base PBX such as Asterisk,
P> I would be more convinced.

You probably missed the following paragraph in one of my
previous messages upthread:

I have been using a similar technique (ie. calling a VoIP device
by IP, which actually is the remote end of a point-to-point VPN)
for ages. This type of communication doesn't need (or leak) anything
from (or to) the internet at large.

In case it matters (it shouldn't), the VoIP client used is 'linphone'.

On 03/04/2023 19:30, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2023-04-03 12:57, Pancho wrote:
>> On 03/04/2023 02:40, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>> On 2023-04-02 23:34, Pancho wrote:
>>>> On 4/1/23 23:06, Fritz Wuehler wrote:
>>>>> Pancho <Pancho.Jo...@Proton.Me> [P]:
>>>>> P> The problem with android VoIP softphones is that they tend to
>>>>> P> deregister. So the ring isn't reliable.
>>>>>
>>>>> You just don't get it, do you? Calling a device by its (LAN) IP has
>>>>> no need for registration. Try it some time and see how it goes.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes, that is a good point. But difficult to test, reliably. VoIP
>>>> already works, most of the time.
>>>>
>>>> Also, I don't know if my IP address does change regularly.
>>>> Obviously, it does when the phone moves between my wlan and the
>>>> mobile/cell network,
>>>
>>> You forget we are talking of LAN alone.
>>
>> No, I understand that, but I have 10 years experience of Android VoIP
>> softphones being unreliable. I'm not sure why they are unreliable,
>> just a history of mild interest, and consequent prejudice.
>>
>> Someone can say my issues are due to changing external IP, that it
>> won't happen in a LAN environment, and they may be right, but I don't
>> have evidence of that.
>>
>> Suggesting one potential failure mechanism does not exclude other
>> mechanisms. You haven't excluded the possibility that aggressive power
>> saving requirements, and consequent sleep states, cause the problem.
>>
>> If someone could point to real life experience of an Andorid VoIP
>> clients working reliably on a LAN, with direct IP calls, or probably
>> more tractably via a LAN base PBX such as Asterisk, I would be more
>> convinced.
>
>
> Have you tried to setup a phone VoIP client without a registrar, on the
> LAN? It is a different beast altogether.
>

In what way is it a different beast? In fact, my home phone works by
default without a registrar. I explicitly, have to block random
connection attempts, if I don't want to get woken up in the middle of
the night. I don't see whether the initial Sip Invite comes from the WAN
or LAN makes much difference, my SIP port is forwarded/exposed to the WAN.

> Yes, of course it can fail, that is not the point.
>

What is the point? Someone was suggesting using an Android VoIP client
for notifications. I made the observation that android VoIP clients were
crap. My primary suspicion is that this is because of power saving.

Aggressive power saving would still apply if a SIP invite originated
from the LAN.

Quote
---
Due to recent changes on the iOS and Android operating systems, incoming
calls on Zoiper no longer work reliably in background under any set of
conditions used up until now.

On iOS this is due to the deprecation of VoIP sockets, while recent
Android powered phones restrict how often apps can wake up while in
background.
---

Cite:
<https://www.zoiper.com/en/support/home/article/205/Zoiper%20Push%20Proxy>

> And I am not going to use for my use case, but that is not the point
> either.
>
>

What is the point?

On 03/04/2023 20:07, Fritz Wuehler wrote:
> Pancho <Pancho.Jo...@proton.me> [P]:
> P> If someone could point to real life experience of an Andorid
> P> VoIP client working reliably on a LAN, with direct IP calls,
> P> or probably more tractably via a LAN base PBX such as Asterisk,
> P> I would be more convinced.
>
> You probably missed the following paragraph in one of my
> previous messages upthread:
>
> I have been using a similar technique (ie. calling a VoIP device
> by IP, which actually is the remote end of a point-to-point VPN)
> for ages. This type of communication doesn't need (or leak) anything
> from (or to) the internet at large.
>
> In case it matters (it shouldn't), the VoIP client used is 'linphone'.
>

No, I saw that, but as I was discussing behaviour of power saving on
Android, the pertinent information would be if that was running on an
Android mobile phone?

Again, we see linphone, uses a specific push notification mechanism,
Google FCM, to get around Android VoIP limitations.

<https://firebase.google.com/docs/cloud-messaging>