novaBBS - alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt - Dell Optiplex 7010 Power Supply?

On 1/6/2023 12:11 PM, Davej wrote:
> My continuously running pc that I use for my cameras has croaked. There was a power outage and so I powered it down before the UPS battery died -- but it now has a problem. Apparently the power supply or the motherboard is sick. If I plug it in I can hear a faint "chirping" sound from the speaker on the motherboard, however pressing the normal power button does nothing. If I press the little button on the back of the power supply this also does nothing, but if I disconnect the power supply from the motherboard then the little button on the power supply will light the associated green LED. According to online Dell information this may mean the power supply is okay.
>
> I've removed all memory, disks and cards and changed the coin-cell battery but see the same result.
>
> Could the power supply still be bad? Should I check voltages on it?
>
> If I replace the motherboard will my Win10 install be invalid?
>
> Thanks.
>

https://www.dell.com/support/kbdoc/en-ca/000125179/how-to-run-a-power-supply-unit-self-test-on-a-dell-desktop-or-all-in-one-computer

The BIST button on the back, is Built In Self Test.

Pressing the button, does a self test and is supposed to cause the
fan to spin.

The self-test will be dependent (at a minimum) on +5VSB
being available. The power supply has two major power blocks.
+5VSB is on its own little circuit, and comes on first.
It is a supervisory voltage, and other operations in the
machine, rely on it being present. The front ON button
won't work, unless +5VSB is present.

On a Dell, there is no mains toggle power switch on the back.
The Dell uses a relay to connect mains to the major blocks.

If you hear a chirp, that can mean the main portion of the
supply came on for 35 milliseconds, then went off. This happens
if the main supply is overloaded (something shorted on the main
power cable).

But, that response can also arise, if the power supply is "weak".

For example, my very first ATX, it is still "alive" in a sense.
But if you draw more current from +12V, than a few hundred
milliamps to run a cooling fan, that causes the voltage on
+12V to drop to zero. It is really weak. Even though if it is
completely unloaded, it will pass a multimeter test (show
+3.3V, +5V, +12V and so on).

This is one reason, I have some resistive loads to test an
ATX supply. The resistive loads draw about 100 watts. I have
a fan to blow over the power resistors, during the test.
My original ATX supply would fail the test, if I tested it
that way. The resistors draw a little power from every rail,
sort of a proportional load. I don't just draw 100W from
+12V, and leave zero load on the others. (Some power supply
testers only load one rail, which is better than nothing.)

*******

It could be that something on the motherboard has failed.

You can test with a regular ATX supply.

For a couple of years, Dell uses non-standard main 20 pin
connectors. This caused issues if you got a spare from
the computer store. You would instead buy a PC Power and Cooling
"Dell" supply, with the bodge Dell wiring pattern on it. You can
also rewire the main connector. But in any case, the machines
we have now, are well past that era. Anything with a
BIST button and green LED, is past that era and is "normal wiring".

If you were to buy a regular supply, it would have a mains
switch on the back. It isn't likely to use the relay internally
to turn it on. A supply specifically meant as a Dell Optiplex replacement,
will have the relay. Sometimes the cutout on the motherboard
casing for the ATX supply, doesn't have room for the switch.
If fitting a regular ATX, you would eyeball the machine casing
for fitment issues.

*******

The Windows 10 situation is complicated.

If you change motherboards, the NIC MAC will be changed. The
hardware hash calculated will change. The Windows 10 "Free Upgrade"
license (from Windows 7 SP1 say), it is recorded on the Microsoft
server via the hash value.

An example of fixing this (or attempting to) would be:

1) Clone original Win7 SP1 onto a spare drive.
The original Win7 would be Royalty OEM Win7 Pro for Dell.
This is SLIC activated for Windows 7.

2) Install Windows 10 over top of the OS that booted in (1).
Microsoft will think a new Optiplex has just received the
"Free Upgrade". A hardware hash for the new motherboard will
now be recorded on the Microsoft server.

3) Shut down. Remove the spare drive. Plug in your real Windows 10 drive.
It should now activate (Microsoft will think you did a second OS install).

slmgr /dlv # Dialog box will appear, should say license is activated

Now, if the Optiplex 7010 came from JoySystems after the era for
legal usage of Windows 7 Refurbisher had passed, JoySystems was
forced to install Windows 10 Refurbisher. The OS will have a real
license key in it (which is not how the Free Upgrade works). You would
need to recover that key, and use a SLUI command to try to activate
the OS (with that new hardware hash that the replacement motherboard
is coughing up). The SLIC table, I don't know if that is enough,
plus the Dell string in the BIOS, to get Microsoft to do the right thing.

There are all sorts of potential details like this.

if the machine used an MSA, there is a claim that (somehow),
activating a repaired machine may be easier. Whether this
takes a phone call or whatever, I don't really know. If
you had not used an MSA (Microsoft Account) with the machine,
then the claim is that it is harder for them to associate
the old and the new hardware config. Which does not make a lot
of sense. I have not read a proposal of how such a conversation
would go. The Microsoft Tech Support have the ability to
issue one-time activation strings, for situations like this.
But they don't always give these out.

Your machine is likely a refurb, so you probably don't have a
Royalty OEM Win7 Pro for Dell sitting on a hard drive. I don't
have that for my Optiplex 780 refurb. All I've got is a license key I
wrote down somewhere, and the Refurbisher install DVD. The Refurbisher
kit from Microsoft does not include a COA, which is why you have to
write down the key, just in case. Microsoft stopped including a
hologram DVD with the refurbisher kits, at least five years ago.
I got my Optiplex from a Chinese store down town, and I think
the owner did the refurb himself. Because he has a cabinet full
of refurbisher DVDs tossed in. And I insisted he give me one of
those, or "no deal". He didn't have a problem with that. These
were from when the refurbisher kits still included media. The media
in fact, is nothing special. It is more or less OEM system installer media.

The machine came with a tiny bit of malware on it, as the machine
had been sitting in the shop window, and someone had installed
an Asian movie player program on it, to play something while the
machine sat in the window of the shop. Using my hologram DVD, I
reinstalled (after saving off the refurbisher key). That
refurbisher key could also be used, with a SLUI command,
to activate a Windows 10 again.

Since the system installer OEM that is the refurbisher edition,
is only "intended for one machine", it may refuse to activate.
And that's where the MSA might factor in, if you actually end up
talking to a human on the phone.

The situation is just as messy, as every other thing involving Windows... :-/
There are lots of possible outcomes. Running Windows 10 without
activation, is not the end of the world, it still runs, just
the Personalization dialogs won't accept changes.

With a refurb, just don't lose the key stored in C: . Possibly
Nirsoft Produkey could get it for you (and print it out proper).
Or the Registry editor on Kaspersky Rescue CD (linux based).
The key is lightly encoded in its registry key, and is not
just stored as twenty five letters. The encoding method is known,
and was recorded in a USENET WinXP group posting, long ago.

Summary: Try a spare ATX supply, and see if the front button
works. If the CMOS battery is dead, that sometimes will
"stop" a PC, but only a small percentage of motherboard
designs have that flaw in their design (SuperIO feature).
Trying a new motherboard, is last ditch material.

Paul

On Friday, January 6, 2023 at 1:15:58 PM UTC-6, Paul wrote:
> On 1/6/2023 12:11 PM, Davej wrote:
> > My continuously running pc that I use for my cameras has croaked. There was a power outage and so I powered it down before the UPS battery died -- but it now has a problem. Apparently the power supply or the motherboard is sick. If I plug it in I can hear a faint "chirping" sound from the speaker on the motherboard, however pressing the normal power button does nothing.. If I press the little button on the back of the power supply this also does nothing, but if I disconnect the power supply from the motherboard then the little button on the power supply will light the associated green LED. According to online Dell information this may mean the power supply is okay..
> >
> > I've removed all memory, disks and cards and changed the coin-cell battery but see the same result.
> >
> > Could the power supply still be bad? Should I check voltages on it?
> >
> > If I replace the motherboard will my Win10 install be invalid?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> https://www.dell.com/support/kbdoc/en-ca/000125179/how-to-run-a-power-supply-unit-self-test-on-a-dell-desktop-or-all-in-one-computer
>
> The BIST button on the back, is Built In Self Test.
>
> Pressing the button, does a self test and is supposed to cause the
> fan to spin.
>
> The self-test will be dependent (at a minimum) on +5VSB
> being available. The power supply has two major power blocks.
> +5VSB is on its own little circuit, and comes on first.
> It is a supervisory voltage, and other operations in the
> machine, rely on it being present. The front ON button
> won't work, unless +5VSB is present.
>
> On a Dell, there is no mains toggle power switch on the back.
> The Dell uses a relay to connect mains to the major blocks.
>
> If you hear a chirp, that can mean the main portion of the
> supply came on for 35 milliseconds, then went off. This happens
> if the main supply is overloaded (something shorted on the main
> power cable).
>
> But, that response can also arise, if the power supply is "weak".
>
> For example, my very first ATX, it is still "alive" in a sense.
> But if you draw more current from +12V, than a few hundred
> milliamps to run a cooling fan, that causes the voltage on
> +12V to drop to zero. It is really weak. Even though if it is
> completely unloaded, it will pass a multimeter test (show
> +3.3V, +5V, +12V and so on).
>
> This is one reason, I have some resistive loads to test an
> ATX supply. The resistive loads draw about 100 watts. I have
> a fan to blow over the power resistors, during the test.
> My original ATX supply would fail the test, if I tested it
> that way. The resistors draw a little power from every rail,
> sort of a proportional load. I don't just draw 100W from
> +12V, and leave zero load on the others. (Some power supply
> testers only load one rail, which is better than nothing.)
>
> *******
>
> It could be that something on the motherboard has failed.
>
> You can test with a regular ATX supply.
>
> For a couple of years, Dell uses non-standard main 20 pin
> connectors. This caused issues if you got a spare from
> the computer store. You would instead buy a PC Power and Cooling
> "Dell" supply, with the bodge Dell wiring pattern on it. You can
> also rewire the main connector. But in any case, the machines
> we have now, are well past that era. Anything with a
> BIST button and green LED, is past that era and is "normal wiring".
>
> If you were to buy a regular supply, it would have a mains
> switch on the back. It isn't likely to use the relay internally
> to turn it on. A supply specifically meant as a Dell Optiplex replacement,
> will have the relay. Sometimes the cutout on the motherboard
> casing for the ATX supply, doesn't have room for the switch.
> If fitting a regular ATX, you would eyeball the machine casing
> for fitment issues.
>
> *******
>
> The Windows 10 situation is complicated.
>
> If you change motherboards, the NIC MAC will be changed. The
> hardware hash calculated will change. The Windows 10 "Free Upgrade"
> license (from Windows 7 SP1 say), it is recorded on the Microsoft
> server via the hash value.
>
> An example of fixing this (or attempting to) would be:
>
> 1) Clone original Win7 SP1 onto a spare drive.
> The original Win7 would be Royalty OEM Win7 Pro for Dell.
> This is SLIC activated for Windows 7.
>
> 2) Install Windows 10 over top of the OS that booted in (1).
> Microsoft will think a new Optiplex has just received the
> "Free Upgrade". A hardware hash for the new motherboard will
> now be recorded on the Microsoft server.
>
> 3) Shut down. Remove the spare drive. Plug in your real Windows 10 drive.
> It should now activate (Microsoft will think you did a second OS install)..
>
> slmgr /dlv # Dialog box will appear, should say license is activated
>
> Now, if the Optiplex 7010 came from JoySystems after the era for
> legal usage of Windows 7 Refurbisher had passed, JoySystems was
> forced to install Windows 10 Refurbisher. The OS will have a real
> license key in it (which is not how the Free Upgrade works). You would
> need to recover that key, and use a SLUI command to try to activate
> the OS (with that new hardware hash that the replacement motherboard
> is coughing up). The SLIC table, I don't know if that is enough,
> plus the Dell string in the BIOS, to get Microsoft to do the right thing.
>
> There are all sorts of potential details like this.
>
> if the machine used an MSA, there is a claim that (somehow),
> activating a repaired machine may be easier. Whether this
> takes a phone call or whatever, I don't really know. If
> you had not used an MSA (Microsoft Account) with the machine,
> then the claim is that it is harder for them to associate
> the old and the new hardware config. Which does not make a lot
> of sense. I have not read a proposal of how such a conversation
> would go. The Microsoft Tech Support have the ability to
> issue one-time activation strings, for situations like this.
> But they don't always give these out.
>
> Your machine is likely a refurb, so you probably don't have a
> Royalty OEM Win7 Pro for Dell sitting on a hard drive. I don't
> have that for my Optiplex 780 refurb. All I've got is a license key I
> wrote down somewhere, and the Refurbisher install DVD. The Refurbisher
> kit from Microsoft does not include a COA, which is why you have to
> write down the key, just in case. Microsoft stopped including a
> hologram DVD with the refurbisher kits, at least five years ago.
> I got my Optiplex from a Chinese store down town, and I think
> the owner did the refurb himself. Because he has a cabinet full
> of refurbisher DVDs tossed in. And I insisted he give me one of
> those, or "no deal". He didn't have a problem with that. These
> were from when the refurbisher kits still included media. The media
> in fact, is nothing special. It is more or less OEM system installer media.
>
> The machine came with a tiny bit of malware on it, as the machine
> had been sitting in the shop window, and someone had installed
> an Asian movie player program on it, to play something while the
> machine sat in the window of the shop. Using my hologram DVD, I
> reinstalled (after saving off the refurbisher key). That
> refurbisher key could also be used, with a SLUI command,
> to activate a Windows 10 again.
>
> Since the system installer OEM that is the refurbisher edition,
> is only "intended for one machine", it may refuse to activate.
> And that's where the MSA might factor in, if you actually end up
> talking to a human on the phone.
>
> The situation is just as messy, as every other thing involving Windows... :-/
> There are lots of possible outcomes. Running Windows 10 without
> activation, is not the end of the world, it still runs, just
> the Personalization dialogs won't accept changes.
>
> With a refurb, just don't lose the key stored in C: . Possibly
> Nirsoft Produkey could get it for you (and print it out proper).
> Or the Registry editor on Kaspersky Rescue CD (linux based).
> The key is lightly encoded in its registry key, and is not
> just stored as twenty five letters. The encoding method is known,
> and was recorded in a USENET WinXP group posting, long ago.
>
> Summary: Try a spare ATX supply, and see if the front button
> works. If the CMOS battery is dead, that sometimes will
> "stop" a PC, but only a small percentage of motherboard
> designs have that flaw in their design (SuperIO feature).
> Trying a new motherboard, is last ditch material.
>
> Paul

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Subject	Author
Dell Optiplex 7010 Power Supply?	Davej
Re: Dell Optiplex 7010 Power Supply?	Paul
Re: Dell Optiplex 7010 Power Supply?	Davej

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