The flight-sim group has been dead for ages and I've noticed that a
large number of different type of games are discussed here so I'd like
to ask opinions on the following 2 games:
https://www.gog.com/en/game/european_air_war
https://www.gog.com/en/game/1942_the_pacific_air_war

Just to give some context, I used to play things like Aces of the
Pacific, Aces over Europe, Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe, Their Finest
Hour etc. These are 1990s flight sims but I enjoyed them immensely.

In your opinion, would any of these games (especially considering they
are discounted) be worthwhile based on the types of sims I like?

Cheers

Geoff

On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 18:41:33 +0000, Geoff May
<GeoffMay_do_not_spam_me@nospam.com> wrote:

>The flight-sim group has been dead for ages and I've noticed that a
>large number of different type of games are discussed here so I'd like
>to ask opinions on the following 2 games:
>https://www.gog.com/en/game/european_air_war
>https://www.gog.com/en/game/1942_the_pacific_air_war

>Just to give some context, I used to play things like Aces of the
>Pacific, Aces over Europe, Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe, Their Finest
>Hour etc. These are 1990s flight sims but I enjoyed them immensely.

>In your opinion, would any of these games (especially considering they
>are discounted) be worthwhile based on the types of sims I like?

Mmm. Tough one. Firstly, because there's a significant age difference
between the two games - "1942:PAW" came out in 1994, and "European Air
War" came out in 1998. I know four years doesn't sound like much -
these days it's nothing - but the mid to late '90s were a
transformative era in video-gaming, with processor speeds, RAM and
video capabilities doubling on an almost yearly basis. It's almost
like asking the difference between a game from 2001 and 2021.

So in terms of visuals and features, "EAW" comes out ahead. I know we
all protest that graphics aren't important, but the 320x200 resolution
in "1942" - even if scaled up and smoothed out with a filter - makes
things a lot harder to identify. Is that multi-colored blob over there
a cloud, an enemy plane, an island? By the time there's enough detail
to figure out what it is, your tail may be on fire.

All that added RAM ("1942" needed 4 MB, "EAW" used 32MB) gives the
later game an advantage too. More planes, more details, and a heck of
a lot more accurate flight engine. Not to mention more
customizability.

And that customizability was important, since it could effectively
transform "EAW" from a 'serious' flight sim into a more arcadey
shooter. "1942" was striving for realism (as best it could on a 486/33
and 4MB) but "EAW" let you (if you wanted) practically ignore physics
and just make your enemies go pop-pop-pop in one mission and then
worry about stalls and weight on the next.

"1942" did have a stronger strategic element, with reactive campaigns
that allowed you to order various air-units and even jump between
them. "EAW" was comparatively linear.

Also, a personal bias: I always enjoyed fighting the European theater
more than I did the Pacific war. Messcherschmitts and B-17s were my
favorites, not Zeros vs Hellcats (plus, no need to bother landing on
teeny-tiny moving carriers ;-). So another point in favor of "EAW".

Still, if the goal is to recreate the experience of games like "Aces
of the Pacific" or "Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe", you'll get
closest to that goal with "1942: Pacific Air War", since it's
essentially just a modernization of that trend; it was released at the
tail end of the best part of the era of DOS flight simulators.

But, ultimately, between the two, I remember "European Air War" more
fondly. Maybe it's for the reasons above, maybe it was just timing.
When "1942" came out, there were a number of similar titles already
available featuring WW2 combat. In 1998, a lot more flight sims were
focusing on jet combat, so "EAW" stood out more. But as good as "1942"
was, "EAW" was just the more memorable game to me.

But, like I said, it's a tough call.

(Me? I'd just get both. But that sort of careless attitude is how I
ended up with an unmanageably large video-game library ;-)

On 20/01/2023 20:46, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 18:41:33 +0000, Geoff May
> <GeoffMay_do_not_spam_me@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> [snipped]
>
> (Me? I'd just get both. But that sort of careless attitude is how I
> ended up with an unmanageably large video-game library ;-)

Thank you, very much appreciated.

I was considering taking them both but didn't want to end up with games
I will never play. Based on what you wrote, it sounds like the sort of
things I like.

Cheers

Geoff

On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 18:41:33 +0000, Geoff May
<GeoffMay_do_not_spam_me@nospam.com> wrote:

>The flight-sim group has been dead for ages and I've noticed that a
>large number of different type of games are discussed here so I'd like
>to ask opinions on the following 2 games:
>https://www.gog.com/en/game/european_air_war
>https://www.gog.com/en/game/1942_the_pacific_air_war
>
>Just to give some context, I used to play things like Aces of the
>Pacific, Aces over Europe, Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe, Their Finest
>Hour etc. These are 1990s flight sims but I enjoyed them immensely.
>
>In your opinion, would any of these games (especially considering they
>are discounted) be worthwhile based on the types of sims I like?
>
>Cheers
>
>Geoff

*--

I just bought the first one. 2nd one graphics way too dated.

Thanks!

I was a big part of the flight sim newsgroup when it was hopping back
in the day!

Have you tried any of the IL-2 series?

I have most of them but haven't flown them in a while.

-pw

On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 21:17:53 +0000, Geoff May
<GeoffMay_do_not_spam_me@nospam.com> wrote:

>On 20/01/2023 20:46, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>> On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 18:41:33 +0000, Geoff May
>> <GeoffMay_do_not_spam_me@nospam.com> wrote:
>>
>>> [snipped]
>>
>> (Me? I'd just get both. But that sort of careless attitude is how I
>> ended up with an unmanageably large video-game library ;-)
>
>Thank you, very much appreciated.
>
>I was considering taking them both but didn't want to end up with games
>I will never play. Based on what you wrote, it sounds like the sort of
>things I like.
>
>Cheers
>
>Geoff
>

*-

That is being part of the club here. Own plenty of games that never
get played.

Are you new here Geoff :-) lol! Only kidding. I know you are not.

-pw

On 21/01/2023 03:48, PW wrote:
> [snipped]
>
> Have you tried any of the IL-2 series?

I haven't but I have been thinking about it. I watched a YouTube of
someone flying an Arado 234 and was quite impressed.

> I have most of them but haven't flown them in a while.
>
> -pw

Cheers

Geoff

On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 20:48:59 -0700, PW
<iamnotusingonewithAgent@notinuse.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 18:41:33 +0000, Geoff May
><GeoffMay_do_not_spam_me@nospam.com> wrote:

>Have you tried any of the IL-2 series?

"IL-2" was highly regarded on its release, but it failed to grab me.
But this, I think, was because - by that time - I had pretty much
moved on from flight-sims in general, and piston-powered flight-sims
in specific (I prefer jets, partly because they GO FAST and partly
because electronic HUDs are easier to read than a bunch of analog
gauges but mostly because they tend to have better visibility out the
cockpit ;-).

"IL-2" felt like 'just another' WW2 sim - prettier graphics,
obviously; an interesting premise, sure; a more sophisticated flight
model, natch - but still just an evolution of the genre. And having
played"Aces Over Europe" or "European Air War" or any of the others
already mentioned in this thread* - I wasn't all that excited about
"IL-2".

TL;DR: Fine game, but bad timing.

* Oh, and the Microsoft Combat Flight Sim games! Remember those?

On 1/21/2023 7:52 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>
> * Oh, and the Microsoft Combat Flight Sim games! Remember those?
>
No.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

On Sat, 21 Jan 2023 09:18:36 -0800, Dimensional Traveler
<dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:

>On 1/21/2023 7:52 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>>
>> * Oh, and the Microsoft Combat Flight Sim games! Remember those?

You missed out, then; they were fun games. Not great games, nor
particularly innovative, but still, they were capable sims with a good
amount of polish. Even if they did seem a sort of knee-jerk reaction
to years of people saying, "Microsoft Flight Sim would be fun if only
I could shoot down other planes!" ;-)

But they also were sort of the last hurrah for Microsoft games on PC
before they focused on XBox. Oh, there were a number of other
Microsoft published games after that - some of them quite good - but
the releases became more sporadic. Even "Combat Flight Simulator 3"
wasn't written in-house. The games pretty much marked the end of
Microsoft as a games developer.

I tried getting MSCFS1 running on modern hardware a few years back; it
didn't go smoothly. Even after I got it installed and running, I never
got the joystick to work.

On 1/22/2023 8:03 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Jan 2023 09:18:36 -0800, Dimensional Traveler
> <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>
>> On 1/21/2023 7:52 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>>>
>>> * Oh, and the Microsoft Combat Flight Sim games! Remember those?
>
> You missed out, then; they were fun games. Not great games, nor
> particularly innovative, but still, they were capable sims with a good
> amount of polish. Even if they did seem a sort of knee-jerk reaction
> to years of people saying, "Microsoft Flight Sim would be fun if only
> I could shoot down other planes!" ;-)
>
> But they also were sort of the last hurrah for Microsoft games on PC
> before they focused on XBox. Oh, there were a number of other
> Microsoft published games after that - some of them quite good - but
> the releases became more sporadic. Even "Combat Flight Simulator 3"
> wasn't written in-house. The games pretty much marked the end of
> Microsoft as a games developer.
>
> I tried getting MSCFS1 running on modern hardware a few years back; it
> didn't go smoothly. Even after I got it installed and running, I never
> got the joystick to work.
>
The only flight sims I remember playing were the first two Wing
Commander games. :P

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

On Sat, 21 Jan 2023 10:52:52 -0500, Spalls Hurgenson
<spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 20:48:59 -0700, PW
><iamnotusingonewithAgent@notinuse.com> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 18:41:33 +0000, Geoff May
>><GeoffMay_do_not_spam_me@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>>Have you tried any of the IL-2 series?
>
>"IL-2" was highly regarded on its release, but it failed to grab me.
>But this, I think, was because - by that time - I had pretty much
>moved on from flight-sims in general, and piston-powered flight-sims
>in specific (I prefer jets, partly because they GO FAST and partly
>because electronic HUDs are easier to read than a bunch of analog
>gauges but mostly because they tend to have better visibility out the
>cockpit ;-).
>
>"IL-2" felt like 'just another' WW2 sim - prettier graphics,
>obviously; an interesting premise, sure; a more sophisticated flight
>model, natch - but still just an evolution of the genre. And having
>played"Aces Over Europe" or "European Air War" or any of the others
>already mentioned in this thread* - I wasn't all that excited about
>"IL-2".
>
>TL;DR: Fine game, but bad timing.
>
>
>
>
>* Oh, and the Microsoft Combat Flight Sim games! Remember those?

*--

Hornet Korea is my all time favorite.

On 27/01/2023 04:43, PW wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Jan 2023 10:52:52 -0500, Spalls Hurgenson
> <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 20:48:59 -0700, PW
>> <iamnotusingonewithAgent@notinuse.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 18:41:33 +0000, Geoff May
>>> <GeoffMay_do_not_spam_me@nospam.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Have you tried any of the IL-2 series?
>>
>> "IL-2" was highly regarded on its release, but it failed to grab me.
>> But this, I think, was because - by that time - I had pretty much
>> moved on from flight-sims in general, and piston-powered flight-sims
>> in specific (I prefer jets, partly because they GO FAST and partly
>> because electronic HUDs are easier to read than a bunch of analog
>> gauges but mostly because they tend to have better visibility out the
>> cockpit ;-).
>>
>> "IL-2" felt like 'just another' WW2 sim - prettier graphics,
>> obviously; an interesting premise, sure; a more sophisticated flight
>> model, natch - but still just an evolution of the genre. And having
>> played"Aces Over Europe" or "European Air War" or any of the others
>> already mentioned in this thread* - I wasn't all that excited about
>> "IL-2".
>>
>> TL;DR: Fine game, but bad timing.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> * Oh, and the Microsoft Combat Flight Sim games! Remember those?
>
> *--
>
> Hornet Korea is my all time favorite.

I've never played CFS but I have played Fighter Pilot, Tomahawk (both
Speccky 48k), Gunship, F-16 Falcon (both Atari ST) and lastly on the PC
Longbow 2.

F-16 Falcon I found went a bit overboard on the realism part, well for
my skill level, as it's not fun flying a mission only to crash trying to
land, yet again. Longbow 2 was I think a good game but unfortunately by
the time I played it my gaming tastes had moved on.

|I do occasionally think maybe I should give a flight simulator another
go but that's just the nostalgia part of my brain speaking to me.

On Thu, 26 Jan 2023 21:43:00 -0700, PW
<iamnotusingonewithAgent@notinuse.com> wrote:

>
>Hornet Korea is my all time favorite.

I've not heard of that one (and that's an odd sensation ;-).
Presumably it's in reference to FA-18 Korea (since 'Hornet' is the nom
de guerre for the FA-18). Was the game actually sold in some markets
as 'Hornet Korea'? Moby isn't giving any hints.

I was never the biggest fans of Empire's flight-sims, although I know
some of them - like "Dawn Patrol" - are considered cult classics.
Technically they were often ahead of the curve (many of their games
sported SVGA visuals while the likes of "Aces Over Europe" were still
mucking about at 320x200 VGA) but the gameplay and interfaces always
felt sub-par.

I remember them as having just not enough meat to the games and the
most arcane controls. I tried them and then always quickly fled back
to Microprose/Spectrum or Sierra or LucasArts or even Origin. Empire
Interactive's flight sims just weren't my thing, so it's no surprise
"FA-18 Korea" (or whatever it was called in Montana ;-) skipped my
notice.

On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 10:26:15 +0000, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:

>On 27/01/2023 04:43, PW wrote:
>> On Sat, 21 Jan 2023 10:52:52 -0500, Spalls Hurgenson
>> <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 20:48:59 -0700, PW
>>> <iamnotusingonewithAgent@notinuse.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 18:41:33 +0000, Geoff May
>>>> <GeoffMay_do_not_spam_me@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Have you tried any of the IL-2 series?
>>>
>>> "IL-2" was highly regarded on its release, but it failed to grab me.
>>> But this, I think, was because - by that time - I had pretty much
>>> moved on from flight-sims in general, and piston-powered flight-sims
>>> in specific (I prefer jets, partly because they GO FAST and partly
>>> because electronic HUDs are easier to read than a bunch of analog
>>> gauges but mostly because they tend to have better visibility out the
>>> cockpit ;-).
>>>
>>> "IL-2" felt like 'just another' WW2 sim - prettier graphics,
>>> obviously; an interesting premise, sure; a more sophisticated flight
>>> model, natch - but still just an evolution of the genre. And having
>>> played"Aces Over Europe" or "European Air War" or any of the others
>>> already mentioned in this thread* - I wasn't all that excited about
>>> "IL-2".
>>>
>>> TL;DR: Fine game, but bad timing.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> * Oh, and the Microsoft Combat Flight Sim games! Remember those?
>>
>> *--
>>
>> Hornet Korea is my all time favorite.
>
>I've never played CFS but I have played Fighter Pilot, Tomahawk (both
>Speccky 48k), Gunship, F-16 Falcon (both Atari ST) and lastly on the PC
>Longbow 2.
>
>F-16 Falcon I found went a bit overboard on the realism part, well for
>my skill level, as it's not fun flying a mission only to crash trying to
>land, yet again. Longbow 2 was I think a good game but unfortunately by
>the time I played it my gaming tastes had moved on.
>
>|I do occasionally think maybe I should give a flight simulator another
>go but that's just the nostalgia part of my brain speaking to me.

**---

There was a WW2 one or series that I used to play all of the time back
then too. Can't remember the name.

-pw

On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 10:36:57 -0500, Spalls Hurgenson
<spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 26 Jan 2023 21:43:00 -0700, PW
><iamnotusingonewithAgent@notinuse.com> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Hornet Korea is my all time favorite.
>
>I've not heard of that one (and that's an odd sensation ;-).
>Presumably it's in reference to FA-18 Korea (since 'Hornet' is the nom
>de guerre for the FA-18). Was the game actually sold in some markets
>as 'Hornet Korea'? Moby isn't giving any hints.
>
>I was never the biggest fans of Empire's flight-sims, although I know
>some of them - like "Dawn Patrol" - are considered cult classics.
>Technically they were often ahead of the curve (many of their games
>sported SVGA visuals while the likes of "Aces Over Europe" were still
>mucking about at 320x200 VGA) but the gameplay and interfaces always
>felt sub-par.
>
>I remember them as having just not enough meat to the games and the
>most arcane controls. I tried them and then always quickly fled back
>to Microprose/Spectrum or Sierra or LucasArts or even Origin. Empire
>Interactive's flight sims just weren't my thing, so it's no surprise
>"FA-18 Korea" (or whatever it was called in Montana ;-) skipped my
>notice.
>
>
*---

Do I dare download it from this site:
https://www.myabandonware.com/game/f-a-18-korea-a55

I think not

-pw

On Sat, 04 Feb 2023 20:24:41 -0700, PW
<iamnotusingonewithAgent@notinuse.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 27 Jan 2023 10:36:57 -0500, Spalls Hurgenson
><spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 26 Jan 2023 21:43:00 -0700, PW
>><iamnotusingonewithAgent@notinuse.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Hornet Korea is my all time favorite.
>>
>>I've not heard of that one (and that's an odd sensation ;-).
>>Presumably it's in reference to FA-18 Korea (since 'Hornet' is the nom
>>de guerre for the FA-18). Was the game actually sold in some markets
>>as 'Hornet Korea'? Moby isn't giving any hints.
>>
>>I was never the biggest fans of Empire's flight-sims, although I know
>>some of them - like "Dawn Patrol" - are considered cult classics.
>>Technically they were often ahead of the curve (many of their games
>>sported SVGA visuals while the likes of "Aces Over Europe" were still
>>mucking about at 320x200 VGA) but the gameplay and interfaces always
>>felt sub-par.
>>
>>I remember them as having just not enough meat to the games and the
>>most arcane controls. I tried them and then always quickly fled back
>>to Microprose/Spectrum or Sierra or LucasArts or even Origin. Empire
>>Interactive's flight sims just weren't my thing, so it's no surprise
>>"FA-18 Korea" (or whatever it was called in Montana ;-) skipped my
>>notice.
>>
>>
>*---
>
>Do I dare download it from this site:
>https://www.myabandonware.com/game/f-a-18-korea-a55
>
>I think not
>
>-pw

*---

Nevermind. That's not the one. Maybe I got the name wrong.

Used to also play SU-27 Flanker. Terrible graphics but great realism.
"Papa Doc's Pink Flamingo!"

Not for planes but instead sub's - Uboat is a good one that is still
listed as early access but is pretty much a complete game now and it
does have continued support.

On Sat, 04 Feb 2023 20:22:47 -0700, PW
<iamnotusingonewithAgent@notinuse.com> wrote:
>
>There was a WW2 one or series that I used to play all of the time back
>then too. Can't remember the name.

Well, that narrows it down. Not like WW2 flight sims were a rare
breed. ;-)

Still, you mentioned a 'series' of games in that genre, so maybe we
can narrow it down:

(list is more or less chronological, but since the games all span a
range of years it does skitter about some ;-)

- LucasArt's "Battlehawks 1942" (1988) and "Their Finest Hour: Battle
of Britain" weren't technically a 'series' but sometimes get lumped
together (along with "Secret Weapons", mentioned later).

- The "Aces" ("Aces Over the Pacific" in 1992, "Aces Over Europe" in
1993 from the early 90s by Sierra.

- The "B-17 Flying Fortress" games from Microprose, the first released
in '93 and the second 8 years later.

- The "Secret Weapons" games by LucasArts - "Secret Weapons of the
Luftwaffe" in 1991 and "Secret Weapons Over Normandy" in 2003.
Although the later barely qualified as a sim. ;-)

- The aforementioned "Combat Flight Simulator" (three games) from
Microsoft in the late 90s (1998, 2000 and 2002 respectively)

- EA's "Janes" series had a couple of WW2-focused games: "WWII
Fighters" came out in 1998 and "Attack Squadron" released in 2002.

- And, of course, the reversed "IL-2" games, which technically were
not a series but received so many add-ons and expansions ("Cliffs of
Dover", "1946", "Great Battles", and more), that it might as well be.

On Sat, 04 Feb 2023 20:26:20 -0700, PW
<iamnotusingonewithAgent@notinuse.com> wrote:

>Used to also play SU-27 Flanker. Terrible graphics but great realism.
>"Papa Doc's Pink Flamingo!"

Ah, the classic SSI sim. Actually not that bad looking for a game of
its era; it didn't have any textured polygons but did pretty well with
gouraud shading, which had the added advantage of not bogging down the
processor. Its flight model was fairly respectable too. It was up
there with DI sims like "Hind" or "FA-18E Super Hornet" as one of the
premium modern flight sims available for PC.

(although by that time I was slowly starting mytransition towards more
arcadey experiences like "Comanche" or "Strike Commander". I still
played the hard-core sims but - unwillingly - was finding myself
having more fun with the less realistic games. ;-)

I remember being somewhat surprised at the game though, largely
because it came from SSI. While that company had created some
fascinating sims in its past, by 1995 it was mostly a strategy and
role-playing games publisher, and I never expected such a modern and
realistic game from them.

On Sun, 5 Feb 2023 11:39:53 +0000, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:

>Not for planes but instead sub's - Uboat is a good one that is still
>listed as early access but is pretty much a complete game now and it
>does have continued support.

Wow, that's a genre I've almost forgotten about. Which is odd because
the first 'real' sim I ever played was Microprose's 1995 "Silent
Service". And years later, "Silent Hunter" engaged me for weeks upon
weeks.

But after that, the genre seemed to fade away. Oh, there were some
notables - "Jane's 688i Hunter Killer" - but most of them focused more
on modern subs, which never engrossed me in the same way (too much
sound analysis, not enough strategy. Plus, I like looking out of the
periscope too much).

There has been - apparently - something of a rebirth in the genre
recently ("Wolfpack", "Crashdive", the aforementioned "Uboat") but
I've not tried any of them. Despite how fascinating I found the games
years ago, I can't seem to muster much enthusiasm for them today. And
if I do, it's not like "Silent Hunter" isn't on my hard-drive waiting
for me...

On 2/5/2023 12:03 PM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

> - LucasArt's "Battlehawks 1942" (1988) and "Their Finest Hour: Battle
> - The "Aces" ("Aces Over the Pacific" in 1992, "Aces Over Europe" in
> - The "B-17 Flying Fortress" games from Microprose, the first released
> - The "Secret Weapons" games by LucasArts - "Secret Weapons of the
> - The aforementioned "Combat Flight Simulator" (three games) from
> - EA's "Janes" series had a couple of WW2-focused games: "WWII
> Fighters" came out in 1998 and "Attack Squadron" released in 2002.

This is a long shot but you guys seem to know quite a bit aboutflight
games so I'll just have to ask and hope for a miracle..
I realize it's a tough one, the game wasn't part of a series that I'm
aware of and probably developed by a small company. I've been trying to
find the name of this game for almost 2 decades without success.

I got it for my disabled uncle who absolutely adored it back then (mid
to late 2000's). It was an incredibly short and easy arcade WWII combat
flight PC game, and must have come out somewhere between 2000 and 2010
(can't narrow it down further that that, sorry).

Here's what I remember: I'm 99% sure there were only 12 short missions
in total, lasting 15 to 20 minutes or so each one. The controls were
incredibly simple (I want to say mouse only but not sure) and in the
last mission (the 12th) you had to single handedly stop a barrage of
V2's flying towards London. There was no airplane choice, I think you
always had a Mustang but also not sure about that. We ran the game on a
IBM Thinkpad T20 and the graphics looked amazing for the time, it had a
very well optimized engine.

Also remember the tutorial (first) mission where you had to land the
plane somewhere, maybe an island, and take off again. In the following
one you had to destroy ships docked in a bay and some that were out at sea.

It had an incredibly non descriptive name (like 'Fighters of WW2' or
some such) which makes the process of finding it even more difficult.

Hopefully this will ring a bell with one of you guys, this is driving us
crazy.

On 05/02/2023 17:24, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Feb 2023 11:39:53 +0000, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:
>
>> Not for planes but instead sub's - Uboat is a good one that is still
>> listed as early access but is pretty much a complete game now and it
>> does have continued support.
>
> Wow, that's a genre I've almost forgotten about. Which is odd because
> the first 'real' sim I ever played was Microprose's 1995 "Silent
> Service". And years later, "Silent Hunter" engaged me for weeks upon
> weeks.
>
> But after that, the genre seemed to fade away. Oh, there were some
> notables - "Jane's 688i Hunter Killer" - but most of them focused more
> on modern subs, which never engrossed me in the same way (too much
> sound analysis, not enough strategy. Plus, I like looking out of the
> periscope too much).
>
> There has been - apparently - something of a rebirth in the genre
> recently ("Wolfpack", "Crashdive", the aforementioned "Uboat") but
> I've not tried any of them. Despite how fascinating I found the games
> years ago, I can't seem to muster much enthusiasm for them today. And
> if I do, it's not like "Silent Hunter" isn't on my hard-drive waiting
> for me...
>

It wasn't my first real sim (that honour goes to Fighter Pilot on the
Speecky 48k) but my first sub sim was Slient Service on the Atari ST.
Then there was a big gap before playing Silent Hunter III on the PC. I
very much loved that game and even at one point played in the more
realistic mode where you have to do the manual programming of the
torpedo course. I did then ditch that idea as it was just too much
effort and I'm the captain so I've got a man who does that for me.

The later games in the series, well the less said about them the better.
I do have IV but it was a bit of a mess and wasn't helped by the fact
that the Pacific ToW just isn't something that interests me.

On Tue, 7 Feb 2023 03:16:55 -0500, Metal Guru
<MetalGuru@NiceTrySpammer.com> wrote:

>On 2/5/2023 12:03 PM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>
>> - LucasArt's "Battlehawks 1942" (1988) and "Their Finest Hour: Battle
>> - The "Aces" ("Aces Over the Pacific" in 1992, "Aces Over Europe" in
>> - The "B-17 Flying Fortress" games from Microprose, the first released
>> - The "Secret Weapons" games by LucasArts - "Secret Weapons of the
>> - The aforementioned "Combat Flight Simulator" (three games) from
>> - EA's "Janes" series had a couple of WW2-focused games: "WWII
>> Fighters" came out in 1998 and "Attack Squadron" released in 2002.

>This is a long shot but you guys seem to know quite a bit aboutflight
>games so I'll just have to ask and hope for a miracle..
>I realize it's a tough one, the game wasn't part of a series that I'm
>aware of and probably developed by a small company. I've been trying to
>find the name of this game for almost 2 decades without success.
>
>I got it for my disabled uncle who absolutely adored it back then (mid
>to late 2000's). It was an incredibly short and easy arcade WWII combat
>flight PC game, and must have come out somewhere between 2000 and 2010
>(can't narrow it down further that that, sorry).
>
>Here's what I remember: I'm 99% sure there were only 12 short missions
>in total, lasting 15 to 20 minutes or so each one. The controls were
>incredibly simple (I want to say mouse only but not sure) and in the
>last mission (the 12th) you had to single handedly stop a barrage of
>V2's flying towards London. There was no airplane choice, I think you
>always had a Mustang but also not sure about that. We ran the game on a
>IBM Thinkpad T20 and the graphics looked amazing for the time, it had a
>very well optimized engine.

>Also remember the tutorial (first) mission where you had to land the
>plane somewhere, maybe an island, and take off again. In the following
>one you had to destroy ships docked in a bay and some that were out at sea.

>It had an incredibly non descriptive name (like 'Fighters of WW2' or
>some such) which makes the process of finding it even more difficult.

My first inclination is that it was "Secret Weapons Over Normandy",
mostly because of the 'stop a barrage of V12s' seems exactly the sort
of over-the-top mission it excelled in. It was an unsophisticated
flight sim, could be played with mouse (I think), and was fairly
short. However, it did allow plane selection (albeit only from a
pre-selected list) and (some quick research indicates) it's first
mission threw your directly into combat defending the D-Day invasion
fleet. And, of course, being a LucasArts game means its not 'low
budget'.

Second suspicion is maybe one of the 'Warbirds' games? Except those
were online games and I've no recollection if they could be played
with just a mouse (plus, they're a bit older than the time-frame
specified; "Warbirds" came out in '98, it's sequel in '99 and
"Warbirds III" in 2002. Honestly, I only have limited recollection of
the games.

Hmmm... maybe "Blazing Angels"? That was another arcade-sim, so
probably quite capable of being played with just a mouse (my memory is
weak in this area since that's almost never a method I used even if it
were available). But like most games, it was quick to action (e.g.,
you were shooting bad-guys in the first level) , and some quick
research indicates it had 20 missions. On the other hand, no plane
selection. Similarly, "Heroes Over Europe"; arcade action so easy
controls but the your thrust into it from the start.

On 2/7/2023 12:24 PM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> On Tue, 7 Feb 2023 03:16:55 -0500, Metal Guru
> <MetalGuru@NiceTrySpammer.com> wrote:
>>> Here's what I remember: I'm 99% sure there were only 12 short missions
>> in total, lasting 15 to 20 minutes or so each one. The controls were
>> incredibly simple (I want to say mouse only but not sure) and in the
>> last mission (the 12th) you had to single handedly stop a barrage of
>> V2's flying towards London. There was no airplane choice, I think you
>> always had a Mustang but also not sure about that. We ran the game on a
>> IBM Thinkpad T20 and the graphics looked amazing for the time, it had a
>> very well optimized engine.
>
> My first inclination is that it was "Secret Weapons Over Normandy",
> Second suspicion is maybe one of the 'Warbirds' games?
> Hmmm... maybe "Blazing Angels"? That was another arcade-sim
> Similarly, "Heroes Over Europe"; arcade action so easy
> controls but the your thrust into it from the start.

Thank you so much for that, Spalls. I had already checked gameplay
footage of every single one of these games and "Blazing Angels" looked
very close except for the UI and mission briefings so yeah, it didn't
take me very long to realize that wasn't it either.

But then I had an epiphany: what if I googled arcade flight sims with 12
missions/campaigns/levels since that was the only thing about the game I
still remembered vividly for some reason? I can't remember which key
words got me this result but google eventually came up with:

https://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/history-channel-battle-of-britain-world-war-ii-1940

BAM! There's my little devil, I'm *almost* certain :) I haven't been
able to check gameplay or screenies yet because google chokes with those
search terms (told ya it was a very generic name) but there is an
abandonware site that has it for download so I'll be checking it out
later tonight (can't find it for sale anywhere, either).

The ironic part is that it's basically an offline, stripped down version
of one of the games you suggested - Warbirds.

http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/the-history-channels-battle-of-britain/494321p1.html

Thanks again for your help, if this is indeed the same game my uncle is
going to be a very happy camper this weekend :)

On 09/02/2023 06:09, Metal Guru wrote:
> But then I had an epiphany: what if I googled arcade flight sims with 12
> missions/campaigns/levels since that was the only thing about the game I
> still remembered vividly for some reason? I can't remember which key
> words got me this result but google eventually came up with:
>
> https://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/history-channel-battle-of-britain-world-war-ii-1940
>
> BAM! There's my little devil, I'm *almost* certain 😄 I haven't been
> able to check gameplay or screenies yet because google chokes with those
> search terms (told ya it was a very generic name) but there is an
> abandonware site that has it for download so I'll be checking it out
> later tonight (can't find it for sale anywhere, either).

Well I hope it's the right one but I'm not sure a flight sim is off to a
good start when they put the wrong version of a Spitfire on the box art!