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computers / comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action / Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?

SubjectAuthor
* What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?Spalls Hurgenson
+* Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?Justisaur
|`- Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?rms
+- Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?Dimensional Traveler
+- Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?Ant
+* Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?rms
|`- Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?Spalls Hurgenson
+- Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?rms
+* Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?Zaghadka
|`* Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?Spalls Hurgenson
| +- Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?Zaghadka
| `* Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?JAB
|  `* Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?Mike S.
|   `* Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?Zaghadka
|    +- Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?Ross Ridge
|    +- Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?JAB
|    `* Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?Spalls Hurgenson
|     +- Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?Zaghadka
|     `- Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?JAB
+* Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?JAB
|`* Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?rms
| +* Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?JAB
| |+* Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?rms
| ||`- Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?JAB
| |`* Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?Zaghadka
| | `* Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?JAB
| |  +* Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?Spalls Hurgenson
| |  |`- Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?Dimensional Traveler
| |  `* Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?Zaghadka
| |   `- Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?JAB
| `- Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?JAB
+* Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?Anssi Saari
|`- Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?Spalls Hurgenson
+* Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?Xocyll
|+* Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?Zaghadka
||`* Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?Xocyll
|| +* Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?Metal Guru
|| |+- Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?Spalls Hurgenson
|| |+* Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?JAB
|| ||`* Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?Spalls Hurgenson
|| || `- Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?JAB
|| |+* Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?Zaghadka
|| ||+* Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?Justisaur
|| |||+- Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?Xocyll
|| |||`- Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?JAB
|| ||`- Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?JAB
|| |`* Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?Xocyll
|| | `- Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?Zaghadka
|| `- Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?Zaghadka
|`* Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?Mike S.
| `* Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?Justisaur
|  `* Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?Mike S.
|   `- Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?Xocyll
`- Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?Pr. Mandrake

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What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?

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From: spallshu...@gmail.com (Spalls Hurgenson)
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Subject: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?
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 by: Spalls Hurgenson - Wed, 1 Mar 2023 15:53 UTC

There's one good thing to say about February; when it feels like
another month has whipped by incredibly fast, at least with February
you know there's a reason for it; it's so damned short. Where's my
29th, 30th and 31st days, February? You're ripping me off!

Anyway, games.

If I had to pay to write my summaries
---------------------------------------
* Middle Earth - Shadow of Mordor (replay)
* Eastshade (new)

If I /got/ paid to write my summaries
---------------------------------------

* Middle Earth - Shadow of Mordor (replay)
The last time I played "Shadow of Mordor", I gave up a few hours in. I
really regretted doing so because I'm a fan of the Middle Earth
franchise, but I just wasn't having fun with the game. But sometimes
that happens, through no fault of the game. There are times I'm in the
mood for a specific type of game, and if I play something else it
won't satisfy me no matter how good it is. So I regretfully put
"Shadow" away, telling myself that one day I'd return and play it
through to completion like it deserved.

Today was that day. And now I really wish I'd just left it on my list
of unplayed games. "Shadow" isn't a bad game in its particulars; all
of its component parts are satisfactory, if not exceptional in any
way. But taken as a whole, the game lacks that spark, that bit of
verve that makes it memorable or, indeed enjoyable.

"Shadow's" biggest fault is its lack of variety. The combat mechanics
- the core of the game - are fairly well done but lack the depth and
challenge to keep me entertained for very long. This is especially
noticeable in the first half of the game - before you've gained any of
the more exciting fight maneuvers - and the combat is just a
collection of mundane melee against mundane enemies. And while things
do improve later in the game, it never achieves its full potential.

And unfortunately, the other parts of the game just aren't enough to
make up for the combat system's failings. The open-world is too small
and uninteresting; lacking detail and interactivity, it never feels
like a real place. The platforming mechanics are extremely limited and
the controls lack the necessary smoothness for fun parkour. The story
and characters - despite the use of the famous license - feel like
generic fantasy. The graphics are fine - especially with regards to
the character detail (I was oddly impressed by how well the lip-sync
matched the speech) - but, again, never exceed the basic expectations
and the first half of the game features some of the least interesting
visuals.

The game also has some notable flaws; the stealth system is sub-par,
for instance, and the constant respawning of enemies makes the combat
feel pointless. I get what the developers were going for: the goal
was, I suspect, to make it feel as if you were single-handedly
fighting against a massive army whose numbers were so huge that you
could never win through force of arms. However, the actual result was
that the constant fighting became an endless grind and something to be
avoided entirely if possible. Some of the missions were also extremely
scripted, which only gave the entire experience an even more
mechanical feel.

The end result is a game which, thanks to its underdeveloped combat
and small world, feels very repetitive and grindy. I spent roughly
forty hours playing it, and it was always an effort to keep going.
"Surely," I thought, "it must get better eventually!" but no, the game
ended quite unrewardingly. The game could have been a terrific mix of
"Dark Souls" and "Assassins Creed" but lacked the polish and finesse
of either, resulting in a poor copy of both.

* Eastshade (new)

There's a quest in "Elder Scrolls: Oblvion" called 'A Brush With
Death' where - through the power of magic - you enter a painting and
have a adventures on the other side of the canvas. The quest itself is
unremarkable, and the visuals are - in essence - just standard
Oblivion graphics with an oil-painting filter overlaid on top of them,
but I still found it memorable because the saturated colors and
pastoral landscapes were striking in appearance. Playing "Eastshade"
reminds me a lot of that quest.

"Eastshade" itself is more of a walking sim than a combat-heavy
fantasy role-playing game, though. In fact, there is remarkably little
in the way of any sort of challenge whatsoever; the bulk of the
gameplay is extremely simplistic fetch-quests. Many of these utilize
the game's core gimmick: painting requested landscapes for various
clients in exchange for some reward that will allow you to progress
through the story. Sadly, the painting mechanic isn't any more
involved than framing what you want to paint; effectively you're just
hitting the 'screenshot' button and your in-game avatar is calling it
art.

Still, the game does have some very pretty terrain, and a surprisingly
large map to explore. Nothing in the setting is particularly original
- there's very little in the game that will make your jaw drop - but
its fun to explore its little world and help solve the little problems
of its inhabitants.

But that is, unfortunately, also the game's biggest problem;
everything about it feels small. There are no real stakes to your
adventure; your ultimate goal is to draw three specific landscapes in
honor of your mother's last request. None of the side-quests are any
more pressing. The world remains fairly static and your actions have
no effect on its development. This makes the game a pleasant diversion
from more intense games, but after a few calming hours, there's little
that made me want to stay in its world. Quite frankly, its saccharine
characters with their picayune problems started to wear on me; the
game became rather dull as one quest blurred into the next.

The Oblivion sub-quest was memorable largely because it was a break
from the usual, and its developers knew enough not to drag things out
too long. You can't say the same with "Eastshade". As much as I
welcome games that dare to try something new, it long overstayed its
welcome and I struggled to reach the end.

---------------------------------------

Only two games for me this month. Well, it was a short month after
all. And - as evidenced by various posts to this newsgroups - I also
had fun with spreadsheets and computer hardware, which bit deeply into
my 'gaming time'. But I really feel I ought to have gotten through
more than two games, dontcha think?

Well, let's see how you all did, and if you managed any better.
Basically, what I am asking is...

What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?

Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?

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Subject: Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?
From: justis...@gmail.com (Justisaur)
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 by: Justisaur - Wed, 1 Mar 2023 18:26 UTC

On Wednesday, March 1, 2023 at 7:54:15 AM UTC-8, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

> * Middle Earth - Shadow of Mordor (replay)

Decent game, but yeah it's missing something to make it great, and
the respawning is wearing.

> What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?

Short:

(All FromSoft games)
*** Dark Souls Remastered
** Dark Souls 2
**** Elden Ring

Long:

*** Dark Souls Remastered
I mentioned this last month. I did get through the first DLC boss solo, rather
quickly. It amounted to the same thing I did with Four Kings, which was
put on heavy armor and facetank him... with my magic-user. Weird, but
it works. I got stuck trying to get the tail off the DLC dragon, which would've
been much easier with co-op, as you pretty much need someone else so one
of you can get behind the dragon, who quickly turns around. People have
done it solo, but it seems to be beyond me. I'm about 99% sure I could kill
him solo without getting his tail, but getting the tail, no. No one responded
to my requests for help, so I shelved it until next year's event.

** Dark Souls 2.
So I played it a bit earlier this month and got a good distance, but the lack
of players was grating on me, so I left it for "Return to Drangelic" A community
event each year at this time to replay it which started the 27th. It was definitely
far more active in the beginning, but after getting through the first few areas

DS2s issues with being a large sprawling game and co-op began to rear their
ugly heads. The matchmaking unlike the other souls games is tied exclusively
to how much souls (money) you find, not have or spend, but find. With rather
narrow bands meaning beyond the starting areas finding co-op is rather difficult.
It's also about impossible to play with a friend as if either gets slightly more
they fall out of summon able range.

I remember when I first played it there were a lot more players and I had no
problem getting help in areas, or being summoned to help I have found none
of either now even with the event going on.

On the other side of the coin it's generally easier to invade (PVP) both as the
game allows invasions against hollow characters (none of the others do) where
they can't even get help of co-op. The other reason is a mod that allows Elden
Ring style 'over the whole map' invasions, and that mod doesn't get you banned
for some reason. That'd be o.k. if co-op was like that, but co-op is one sign in
one place.

It's also old and unupdated like DS1 remastered. The graphics are bad,
but they're still acceptable to me, it's the controls that really get me as they're
8 way directional, instead of fully directional.

I uninstalled it yesterday after getting a bit frustrated with the whole thing.
(Yeah, equivalent of throwing my controller.) I'm tempted to give it another go
and re-download it, but I really wasn't enjoying myself in the now dead areas.
I could try hitting up one of the venues for requesting help. I had done that
before the event, but there was no response.

I could just keep making new characters and play only the first few areas, but
that seems like it would feel a bit too repetitive. There is a ring that will prevent
you gaining souls and lock you to a range, but it's much later game, so I'd
need someone to drop one for me, which feels like cheating too.

**** Elden ring
Yes I started replaying it after being disappointed with DS2 the first time this month.
I first decided to do a newb-helper character, not leveling up past 11th level nor
upgrading weapons beyond +3, seeing how far I could get and coming back to help in
the new areas.

That was pretty fun, and I did find ways to help kill the tree sentinel (probably the most
powerful enemy in the starting area that really should be left until later) but I made
a mistake by activating summons at Margit & Godrick which I really was fairly ineffective
at as I was severely underpowered for them, and I seem to get preferentially summoned
there rather than the earlier areas. I wish there was a way to deactivate those. I could
start over and not activate those, but I put a lot of time into the character and didn't feel
like repeating that.

I then decided to try to do a 100% run and try a strength-faith hybrid as I'd though it
could be better than either alone. I'm loving that and am about 1/3 of the way through
the game. The str/fai weapons I'd tried on my old cleric were much better a bit later
and let me beat things that I'd had trouble with with just spells or weaker weapons, and
the spells let me defeat things easier that were more difficult with my str only character.
Str made the very early game much easier as at that level spells/weak weapons are
just a bit too hard.

I did find a very good 100% guide, it has you start as a quality (str/dex) and respec
to int with a side of dex, but it goes through everything much better than using the
fextralife walkthrough. It's got full info on what to level up and even what equipment
to use on each boss. It's not been hard to just use str/fai instead, but it requires a
bit more experimentation (which I like anyway.) It has full videos, and it has text.
I've mostly followed the text and only had to look at the videos a couple times:

https://www.wow-pro.com/elden-ring-100-walkthrough-ultimate-guide/

Since I left that for my DS2 play, I'm considering just going back to that instead.

There's still Witcher III, once again too many choices, not enough time.

- Justisaur

Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?

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 by: Dimensional Traveler - Wed, 1 Mar 2023 21:13 UTC

On 3/1/2023 7:53 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>
> What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?
>
Some more Stardew Valley but mostly this long, sometimes really boring
open world thing called "Reality". I can't remember how long I've had
it, feels like my entire life somethings and I'm still completely
clueless on what the victory conditions are.

;)

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?

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 by: Ant - Wed, 1 Mar 2023 21:25 UTC

I posted what I played earlier since I didn't want to wait for the new
month thread like Book of Demons (still running its free weekend in the
background since I got too busy!).

Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:

> There's one good thing to say about February; when it feels like
> another month has whipped by incredibly fast, at least with February
> you know there's a reason for it; it's so damned short. Where's my
> 29th, 30th and 31st days, February? You're ripping me off!

> Anyway, games.
....
--
"As far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us." --Psalm 103:12. Marching on with more updated apps, rain, coldness, passing & waking up early (e.g., 10 PM-5 AM), life, etc. on hump cold & windy day. This is not the way.
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org.
/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o o| |
\ _ /
( )

Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?

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 by: rms - Wed, 1 Mar 2023 22:46 UTC

>What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?

The Witcher 3
This title has consumed me since starting. I've delayed finishing off the
main campaign to start the Blood & Wine and Hearts of Stone DLC, and just
last night completed Blood & Wine, and will complete Hearts of Stone within
a couple days. This is not beelining through the required quests only,
either, but doing every single quest available and visiting every single '?'
on the maps (and enjoying Gwent!) -- that's how much this gameworld and the
production quality has captured me. I'd run out of superlatives trying to
describe the experience, and the DX12 version runs great and looks
beautiful. I had some intermittent CTDs when first starting, but a few
small OS tweaks and disabling overlays ended those entirely. Certainly
among the best games ever for me.

Dead Space (remake)
I got EA Play Pro subscription to play this, but Witcher 3 taking all my
time will likely mean keeping that subscription for another month :) I've
gotten through a few levels and am enjoying it.

rms

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 by: rms - Wed, 1 Mar 2023 23:25 UTC

>* Eastshade (new)
>There's a quest in "Elder Scrolls: Oblvion" called 'A Brush With
>Death' where - through the power of magic - you enter a painting and
>have a adventures on the other side of the canvas.

Witcher 3 Heart of Stone DLC also has a similar-sounding quest -- no
doubt inspired by Oblivion's -- where you go through a painting, and the
visuals assume a vangogh-ish look, pretty cool!

rms

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 by: rms - Wed, 1 Mar 2023 23:31 UTC

>** Dark Souls 2.

I'd begun this a few months back, and was making slow but steady progress
(by my lights, anyway) and then silently dropped it for no good reason.
I'll have to continue on for sure

rms

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 by: Zaghadka - Thu, 2 Mar 2023 05:18 UTC

On Wed, 01 Mar 2023 10:53:58 -0500, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

>Well, let's see how you all did, and if you managed any better.
>Basically, what I am asking is...
>
>What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?
>

Return to Monkey Island

I never got used to the artwork (yuk), but eventually went nose blind to
the stink. I completed the whole thing in 17 hrs, though there was some
backtracking due to mishaps with the autosave when trying to look up
trivia answers or get an achievement. I probably finished in 15.

I didn't do a completionist run. I got a nice chunk of trivia questions
right and just over half of the achievements. You can bang your head
against the wall with replays and some kind of extended writer's cut
which apparently has more blather and worse pacing.

Most of the puzzles were pretty easy. Few were so easy as to be
unsatisfying, but mostly I'd solve them in bursts when I got stumped,
after walking away for a bit. Even in hard mode, it's a moderate level of
puzzles.

The humor and writing is spot-on Monkey Island. If you liked the other
games' wit, with the exception of Escape, you'll enjoy this. If you liked
the humor in Escape, may god have mercy on your soul.

There was one puzzle (that I think was part of hard mode) in Chapter One
that was pretty darned annoying. Just really left you twisting in the
wind with a solution that "kinda" makes sense, if you thought to
backtrack to the location that you thought you had no need to go back to.
I hope that doesn't spoil anything. I think it was essentially vague.

There is one end-game puzzle where they somehow managed to do a pixel
hunt puzzle in a game with a highlight objects key. Totally annoying. I
just used the built-in hints system for that one and boy was I glad I
did. I was pretty galled that they decided this sort of puzzle was a good
idea in a modern graphic adventure game. They were never a good idea.

So, completed. Needed one hint sequence. Glad I used it because the
puzzle was not fun or particularly clever, as pixel hunting is.

Spoiler alert
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..
..

The ending is as totally disappointing as LeChuck's Revenge, or as good,
if you like that sort of non-sequitir thing. Don't expect any satisfying
resolution of the WTF ending of MI2.

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

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 by: JAB - Thu, 2 Mar 2023 16:09 UTC

Another slow one for me but I have actually played some games.

Fight Fantasy Classics - City of Thieves and House of Hell
----------------------------------------------------------

This are both on the iPad which is a format that I find they are better
suited to than the PC and they are also cheaper. This are basically
faithful digital versions of the books so if you liked them then you'll
like these. I find they are also great for when you're out and about and
have 20mins or so to spare. Oh and yes you can choose to 'cheat' to your
hearts content, just like the books, if you want to.

Broken Lines
------------

One from the Steam sale as I needed something to make a change of pace
from reading on a screen. Think XCOM in an alternate WWII setting which
seems to include some sort of occult type elements. I've not played it
that long but so far it's enjoyable although sometimes the controls can
feel a bit clunky. Worth a look if you fancy some turn based tactical
combat with RPG-lite elements.

Books
-----

To fill up more of the page, I've read Thud by Terry Pratchett which I
found enjoyable although it's not quite as laugh-at-loud as I've found
some of his other books. I'm now half way through The Difference Engine
by William Gibson and Bruce Sterling. Another good book especially if
your a Steampunk fan. Probably my only criticism is that sometimes the
writing style can feel a bit heavy going but I think that's more to do
with what I'm used to.

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 by: Spalls Hurgenson - Thu, 2 Mar 2023 16:10 UTC

On Wed, 1 Mar 2023 15:46:23 -0700, "rms" <rsquiresMOO@MOOflashMOO.net>
wrote:

>>What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?
>
> The Witcher 3
>This title has consumed me since starting. I've delayed finishing off the
>main campaign to start the Blood & Wine and Hearts of Stone DLC, and just
>last night completed Blood & Wine, and will complete Hearts of Stone within
>a couple days.

Yup, that's pretty much the Witcher 3 experience.

The DLC are some of the best I've played too. I think I enjoyed the
mechanics/story of "Hearts of Stone" more, but the sheer beauty of
Toussaint - the setting of the DLC - is hard to beat. It's actually
sort of disappointing going back to the grimy northlands of the main
quest.

There is one disadvantage to doing the DLC first though: you end up so
overpowered that the main-quest finale becomes ridiculously easy. So
if that matters to you, maybe hold off until later.

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 by: Spalls Hurgenson - Thu, 2 Mar 2023 16:55 UTC

On Wed, 01 Mar 2023 23:18:15 -0600, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>Return to Monkey Island

>I never got used to the artwork (yuk), but eventually went nose blind to
>the stink. I completed the whole thing in 17 hrs, though there was some
>backtracking due to mishaps with the autosave when trying to look up
>trivia answers or get an achievement. I probably finished in 15.

On the one hand, I have to admire Ron Gilbert and his team for making
the game /they/ wanted to make rather than listening to the naysayers.
With so many games being carbon-copy clones of earlier titles, having
the integrity to stick to an art style you want despite all the
criticisim is refreshing.

But on the other hand, both as a consumer and from a business
perspective, you have to wonder, what the fuck were they thinking?
It's such an UGLY game. Being a Monkey Island fan, I might have bought
the game full-price (unlikely, but still possible given the
franchise's history), except for that art. As it stands, if I ever
acquire the game, it will either be because it's offered for free or
at a very steep discount. And then I might not even play it, despite
everything I've heard about its gameplay. It's just that much of an
eyesore.

>
>There was one puzzle (that I think was part of hard mode) in Chapter One
>that was pretty darned annoying. Just really left you twisting in the
>wind with a solution that "kinda" makes sense, if you thought to
>backtrack to the location that you thought you had no need to go back to.
>I hope that doesn't spoil anything. I think it was essentially vague.

If you were any more vague, you'd be a conservative party member
trying to describe their party's goals. ;-)

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 by: rms - Thu, 2 Mar 2023 23:04 UTC

>Books
> -- Thud by Terry Pratchett which I
> The Difference Engine

Nice! I've been on a PKDick run lately, and have finished
In Milton Lumky Territory
Martian Time-Slip
The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldrich
in the last few months. Just starting Ubik now

rms

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 by: Zaghadka - Fri, 3 Mar 2023 05:37 UTC

On Thu, 02 Mar 2023 11:55:44 -0500, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

>On Wed, 01 Mar 2023 23:18:15 -0600, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>There was one puzzle (that I think was part of hard mode) in Chapter One
>>that was pretty darned annoying. Just really left you twisting in the
>>wind with a solution that "kinda" makes sense, if you thought to
>>backtrack to the location that you thought you had no need to go back to.
>>I hope that doesn't spoil anything. I think it was essentially vague.
>
>If you were any more vague, you'd be a conservative party member
>trying to describe their party's goals. ;-)
>
As a member of the Conservative party I just go on and on never letting
anyone get a word in edgewise until I start foaming at the mouth and
falling over backwards (*clunk*)

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?

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From: now...@nochance.com (JAB)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?
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 by: JAB - Fri, 3 Mar 2023 08:59 UTC

On 02/03/2023 23:04, rms wrote:
>> Books
>> -- Thud by Terry Pratchett which I  The Difference Engine
>
>   Nice!  I've been on a PKDick run lately, and have finished
> In Milton Lumky Territory
> Martian Time-Slip
> The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldrich
> in the last few months.  Just starting Ubik now
>

I have read a few short stories by Phillip K. Dick in some of the sci-fi
anthologies I have but I'm buggered if I can remember any of the names.

He is on my list though of I must read one of their novels and yesterday
I was looking at A Scanner Darkly from my now favourite second hand
online bookshop. The downside is you have to avoid the temptation to get
another book before you've nearly finished the one you are currently
reading.

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 by: JAB - Fri, 3 Mar 2023 09:04 UTC

On 02/03/2023 16:55, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> On the one hand, I have to admire Ron Gilbert and his team for making
> the game/they/ wanted to make rather than listening to the naysayers.
> With so many games being carbon-copy clones of earlier titles, having
> the integrity to stick to an art style you want despite all the
> criticisim is refreshing.

I can understand why some people didn't like the art style (personally I
rather like the look of it) but it did feel like it brought out some of
the worst in the oh no the sky is falling in crowd that seems quite
common among gamers.

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From: as...@sci.fi (Anssi Saari)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?
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 by: Anssi Saari - Fri, 3 Mar 2023 12:26 UTC

Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> writes:

> * Middle Earth - Shadow of Mordor (replay)

> The story and characters - despite the use of the famous license -
> feel like generic fantasy.

This! I remember there was gameplay trailer which showed you (Talion)
mind-controlling some orc (Ratbag) and then later he stabbed some boss
orc in the back and took maybe a third of its health bar. Unfortunately
I don't remember that experience from the game so I'm not sure if it was
even in there. Would've been cool and there certainly was a lot of mind
controlling the orcs but somehow it was all meh.

Then there was the whole "nemesis" system which in the end just meant if
you didn't manage to decapitate boss orcs when fighting them then they'd
show up later with maybe some extra scars and somewhat meaner. And
there was no good way to make sure a dead orc was actually dead. And for
some reason this was a thing to some reviewers? I don't get it.

In addition I find that I don't remember much about the plot, such as it
was. I remember the baffling intro and Gollum had a few cameos. There
was some collecting, including some memory shards maybe and finding out
your other half was actually Celebrimbor. Not that I knew back then the
significance of that character in Tolkien's world.

Anyways, I looked up the plot in Wikipedia but most of it felt fairly
unfamiliar even though I'm pretty sure I finished the game. So
definitely not memorable.

Oh and my favorite, a skill bush with skills where it was always so hard
to figure out which skill might actually be useful and which were just
useless filler.

> Only two games for me this month. Well, it was a short month after
> all. And - as evidenced by various posts to this newsgroups - I also
> had fun with spreadsheets and computer hardware, which bit deeply into
> my 'gaming time'. But I really feel I ought to have gotten through
> more than two games, dontcha think?

Must be the first time ever I played more games than you! Then again,
maybe you can add your spreadsheet app to the list of games?-)

> What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?

* Dishonored: Death of the Outsider

I started this, I haven't really played the series, only the original a
little but I lost interest. I guess the story was a little cliched. In
this one it's at least clear what you're doing. Not a mission from God,
your goal is to kill a god aka the titular Outsider.

Finished the first level but it seemed to be mostly an intro and a
tutorial. But I had fun, sneaking around the guards and stealing
everything and getting caught and in the end I killed everyone. Or
some of them were killed by others peoples raiding the place. Seemed
like the guards I had choked out earlier had the best deal, they were
just unconscious through it all.

The game didn't seem that clear on who would attack me on sight and who
wouldn't. Anyways, this felt a little like my old fave Deus Ex. I'll try
to continue.

* Crusader: No Remorse

Fun for a while, I played through four levels. But there are 15 levels
total, I'm not sure I'm willing to grind on. It's just as clunky as I
remember and it's super annoying how the level specific music restarts
from beginning if you pop into the main menu. The comic book brutality
doesn't seem quite as amusing as it was back in 1995.

* GTA III

Yes, I'm now a sucker who went and paid for the shoddy "definitive
edition" of the early 3D GTA games. At least it was half off so I
figured I'll give it a try and refund if it sucks. Well, it took all
of five minutes of game play to decide it's fun so I kept it. It feels
pretty much as I recall, except there's an in game map and navigation
help. And it autosaves at mission start! Otherwise difficulty seems
just as hard and unforgiving as ever. Or sometimes the missions are
really easy. Go kill those guys? Run them over, done.

Gunplay really isn't that good. For sure it wasn't good in the
original either and it's been so long, I'm not sure if it's better or
worse. I remember on PS2 the auto aim was pretty annoying, always
targeting the guy who wasn't shooting at you but at least when you
locked on, you got hits. In this modern version it feels like it's
easy to miss at close range and on foot you can get mobbed pretty
easily and melee is super bad.

But it's so much fun to just speed through the city! The driving model
is hardly realistic or maybe the roads are just sticky but it's fun!
You can just throw the cars around like crazy and recover from almost
any slide. Well, not when going really fast in a sports car or in the
rain but those are the exceptions.

Yes, some character models in the cinematics look weird. Right at the
start, you get a first job from "Luigi" and he looks pretty odd. No
impact on game play though so I wasn't bothered.

I'm maybe halfway through GTA3 now, I think I'll finish this for
sure. The good thing about GTA3 is that it's small, easy, short
missions. I don't know if I'll bother with Vice City or San Andreas
but as far as I'm concerned, this was a great retro experience.

Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?

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Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?
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 by: Mike S. - Fri, 3 Mar 2023 14:03 UTC

On Fri, 3 Mar 2023 09:04:05 +0000, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:

>I can understand why some people didn't like the art style (personally I
>rather like the look of it) but it did feel like it brought out some of
>the worst in the oh no the sky is falling in crowd that seems quite
>common among gamers.

This is the only post about this Monkey Island game in this thread
that I agree with.

For me personally, the third game in the series looks far worse then
this one. I hate the way Guybrush looks in Monkey Island 3.

Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?

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From: rsquires...@MOOflashMOO.net (rms)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?
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 by: rms - Fri, 3 Mar 2023 15:43 UTC

> I was looking at A Scanner Darkly from my now favourite second hand book
> shop
Link to shop? A Scanner Darkly is a great book, and surprisingly also a
great movie. Woody Harrelson & RDJ are magnificent, & Keanu perfectly cast.

rms

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Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
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 by: Zaghadka - Fri, 3 Mar 2023 18:28 UTC

On Fri, 03 Mar 2023 09:03:33 -0500, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action, Mike
S. wrote:

>On Fri, 3 Mar 2023 09:04:05 +0000, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:
>
>>I can understand why some people didn't like the art style (personally I
>>rather like the look of it) but it did feel like it brought out some of
>>the worst in the oh no the sky is falling in crowd that seems quite
>>common among gamers.
>
>This is the only post about this Monkey Island game in this thread
>that I agree with.
>
>For me personally, the third game in the series looks far worse then
>this one. I hate the way Guybrush looks in Monkey Island 3.

See? And I loved the artwork in Curse. Absolutely ate it up.

Long, semi-rant follows...

Really, for the "the sky is falling" crowd, it's a credible Monkey Island
game, Gilbert still has it, and they can just get over the artwork.
Gilbert et al. went with a solid choice and stuck to it. Everyone should
be fine with that. The comments should reasonably be limited to "meh,
don't like it."

Social media, and the need for YouTube clicks, has done a lot to amp up
the extreme posts. That's why I quit that stuff and still come here. I
don't think I've seen the word "travesty" or "DESTROYS" (as in: "Rihanna
aboslutely DESTROYS her critics") ever come up here, except perhaps
ironically.

I mean the closest thing to it is Spalls and NFTs, and we all know he's
just taking the piss.

The newest generations are not. Hell, the older generations are severely
affected. But the young folk think that's the way you talk because they
learned it on YouTube and social media from middle school. It doesn't
even register with my daughters how over-the-top YouTubers are these days
(and how self-assured they are in their expertise simply because they can
use Google). Me? I can't listen to Nostalgia Critic for more than a few
minutes at a time. It's like they all use the same deliberately grating
voice I refer to as "YouTuber voice."

But I'm an old fart and I'm sure they'll figure out how to deal with the
fact that they're all basically shouting at each other when they
disagree. Hopefully, it won't lead to the collapse of democracy. Which is
a shame, because I really like these kids, and they've got a lot going
for them if they can learn to stop trampling on each other's opinions.

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

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Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
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 by: Zaghadka - Fri, 3 Mar 2023 18:29 UTC

On Fri, 3 Mar 2023 08:59:39 +0000, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action, JAB
wrote:

>On 02/03/2023 23:04, rms wrote:
>>> Books
>>> -- Thud by Terry Pratchett which I  The Difference Engine
>>
>>   Nice!  I've been on a PKDick run lately, and have finished
>> In Milton Lumky Territory
>> Martian Time-Slip
>> The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldrich
>> in the last few months.  Just starting Ubik now
>>
>
>I have read a few short stories by Phillip K. Dick in some of the sci-fi
>anthologies I have but I'm buggered if I can remember any of the names.
>
>He is on my list though of I must read one of their novels and yesterday
> I was looking at A Scanner Darkly from my now favourite second hand
>online bookshop. The downside is you have to avoid the temptation to get
>another book before you've nearly finished the one you are currently
>reading.

Hmm. I seem to have that problem with games. You?

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

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From: rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca (Ross Ridge)
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Subject: Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?
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 by: Ross Ridge - Fri, 3 Mar 2023 20:45 UTC

Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Social media, and the need for YouTube clicks, has done a lot to amp up
>the extreme posts. That's why I quit that stuff and still come here. I
>don't think I've seen the word "travesty" or "DESTROYS" (as in: "Rihanna
>aboslutely DESTROYS her critics") ever come up here, except perhaps
>ironically.

My problem is with the more regular media, who will see an angry Reddit
thread about something and turn it into "players up in arms" or "fans
are mad as hell". Sure maybe some people are genuinely angry, but even
in that thread most will be at worst just disappointed. And that's
just what one group of players on Reddit think, not necessarily a
representive sample. Sometimes there's even another group of Reddit
users that think differently.

And, it's pretty much only Reddit and maybe Steam reviews media sites use
to gauge player reactions. Most discusions social media are hidden where
they can't easily be found, like comments in Twitch or YouTube video,
or completely inaccessible to outsiders like on Facebook. Reddit has
become the Internet forum of record pretty much by default.

>The newest generations are not. Hell, the older generations are severely
>affected. But the young folk think that's the way you talk because they
>learned it on YouTube and social media from middle school. It doesn't
>even register with my daughters how over-the-top YouTubers are these days
>(and how self-assured they are in their expertise simply because they can
>use Google).

People crave certainty, so it's easy to just stop at the first authoritive
sounding voice and accept what they say as fact. For a lot of things
that don't matter, like what video game or shoes to buy, that's fine.
Of course, to a young kid trying to fit in, things like that can matter a
lot, so even then they may learn that they need to more skeptical about
what they see on the Internet.

>Me? I can't listen to Nostalgia Critic for more than a few
>minutes at a time. It's like they all use the same deliberately grating
>voice I refer to as "YouTuber voice."

I don't watch YouTube, so I'm not sure what you're talking about.
I can't get past the preview images where some guy looking constipated
points at the subject of the video.

--
l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo] rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca:11068/
db //

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From: spallshu...@gmail.com (Spalls Hurgenson)
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Subject: Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?
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 by: Spalls Hurgenson - Fri, 3 Mar 2023 20:52 UTC

On Fri, 03 Mar 2023 14:26:58 +0200, Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> wrote:

>Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> * Middle Earth - Shadow of Mordor (replay)

>This! I remember there was gameplay trailer which showed you (Talion)
>mind-controlling some orc (Ratbag) and then later he stabbed some boss
>orc in the back and took maybe a third of its health bar. Unfortunately
>I don't remember that experience from the game so I'm not sure if it was
>even in there. Would've been cool and there certainly was a lot of mind
>controlling the orcs but somehow it was all meh.

All done in a cut-scene, btw. The whole 'Ratbag' subplot was extremely
disappointing and led nowhere (ROT13 spoilers: ur qvrf unysjnl guebhtu
gur tnzr). And you don't get any similar influence with any other
orcs.

>Then there was the whole "nemesis" system which in the end just meant if
>you didn't manage to decapitate boss orcs when fighting them then they'd
>show up later with maybe some extra scars and somewhat meaner. And
>there was no good way to make sure a dead orc was actually dead. And for
>some reason this was a thing to some reviewers? I don't get it.

Yeah, the Nemesis stuff was overhyped in the media and underdone in
its gameplay. Every now and again an orc would introduce himself,
"Remember me? I'm back for revenge!" Except, no, I don't remember you,
Mr. Orc. You're just one of the dozens upon dozens of minor orc-bosses
I've slain. You were an interchangable mini-boss the first time I
killed you, and you aren't any more memorable now.

But that was the biggest problem with the game; enemies just respawned
but otherwise were fairly identical. Oh sure, some had 'phobias' and
others had resistances, but it was rarely worth the bother to take
advantage of either, especially since most of the time I stumbled
across these mini-bosses somewhat randomly. Had the bosses had more
influence on the gameworld and plot, then maybe the nemesis system
might have been a notable mechanic, but as implemented it was mostly
just a random boss reusing the name of some guy I'd already killed and
forgotten about already.

>In addition I find that I don't remember much about the plot, such as it
>was. I remember the baffling intro and Gollum had a few cameos. There
>was some collecting, including some memory shards maybe and finding out
>your other half was actually Celebrimbor. Not that I knew back then the
>significance of that character in Tolkien's world.

Gollum was thrown in there for marketing reasons. He really doesn't
have any influence on the overall story and disappears entirely after
the halfway mark.

The game felt large disconnect from the Middle Earth franchise; aside
from the reuse of some familiar names it could have been any generic
fantasy world. Gollum was added, I think, to make the connection more
visible, but it wasn't done in any meaningful way.

>* Dishonored: Death of the Outsider

>I started this, I haven't really played the series, only the original a
>little but I lost interest. I guess the story was a little cliched. In
>this one it's at least clear what you're doing. Not a mission from God,
>your goal is to kill a god aka the titular Outsider.

I've always wanted to give this one a try, except I never really
enjoyed playing the Dishonored series. But I do want to know how the
Outsider - the 'god' of the series - bites it (and what the
consequences of that death would be). The backstory of that game was
always far more interesting to me than its characters or mechanics.

>* Crusader: No Remorse
>Fun for a while, I played through four levels. But there are 15 levels
>total, I'm not sure I'm willing to grind on. It's just as clunky as I
>remember and it's super annoying how the level specific music restarts
>from beginning if you pop into the main menu. The comic book brutality
>doesn't seem quite as amusing as it was back in 1995.

Having just replayed it the other month, I'd recommend giving it up. I
don't want to dismiss the game entirely, but it doesn't really get any
better the longer you play it. It's just... more. Keep at it until you
stop having fun, then move on.

>* GTA III
>
>Yes, I'm now a sucker who went and paid for the shoddy "definitive
>edition" of the early 3D GTA games. At least it was half off so I
>figured I'll give it a try and refund if it sucks. Well, it took all
>of five minutes of game play to decide it's fun so I kept it. It feels
>pretty much as I recall, except there's an in game map and navigation
>help.

The GTA3 games had such mixed gameplay; some missions were
extraordinarily good, others were aggravating in their difficulty or
repetitiveness. And the controls were always workable at best (but
don't get me started on the model airplane controls in Vice City or
San Andreas!), never feeling entirely intuitive or smooth.

>But it's so much fun to just speed through the city! The driving model
>is hardly realistic or maybe the roads are just sticky but it's fun!
>You can just throw the cars around like crazy and recover from almost
>any slide. Well, not when going really fast in a sports car or in the
>rain but those are the exceptions.

GTA3/VC/SA's biggest draws were always its giant worlds, and how much
fun it was just to roam about. The driving controls could be a bit
iffy but snaking through the city to evade the cops? Always fun.

>Yes, some character models in the cinematics look weird. Right at the
>start, you get a first job from "Luigi" and he looks pretty odd. No
>impact on game play though so I wasn't bothered.

The remaster got a lot of criticism, and well deserved too, because
despite it supposedly being a remaster (and priced accordingly) it
didn't really improve the base game. That said, if you don't expect
anything more from the remaster than that it's the original games
reworked to run on modern hardware, it's an okay way to (re)experience
the GTA3 games.

But, owning the originals already (and even having the old-school
hardware to run them on natively) it was a hard sell trying to
convince me to re-purchase the games again. The remasters weren't
really offering me anything new or of value, so I was happy just to
stick with the versions I already owned.

>I'm maybe halfway through GTA3 now, I think I'll finish this for
>sure. The good thing about GTA3 is that it's small, easy, short
>missions. I don't know if I'll bother with Vice City or San Andreas
>but as far as I'm concerned, this was a great retro experience.

Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?

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From: now...@nochance.com (JAB)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2023 10:38:50 +0000
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 by: JAB - Sat, 4 Mar 2023 10:38 UTC

On 03/03/2023 15:43, rms wrote:
>
>>  I was looking at A Scanner Darkly from my now favourite second hand
>> book shop
>   Link to shop?  A Scanner Darkly is a great book, and surprisingly
> also a great movie.  Woody Harrelson & RDJ are magnificent, & Keanu
> perfectly cast.
>

It's World of Books (now branded as the more catchy WoB) and I believe
the have operations in both the UK and US. I've found them pretty good
in terms of selection and price (The Difference Engine in hardback was
only £5.99 with free P&P) and out of the ten or so books I've got from
them only one of them has been in a condition that was bordering on I'm
not sure I'd have bought it if I'd know what I was getting. The majority
though, although obviously not like as new where still more this hasn't
been well read. It also means that as the also do new books I can stop
giving so much money to Bezos.

A Scanner Darkly now goes on the list. Oh and is it just me that can't
watch John Wick without thinking is that really the guy out of Bill &
Ted. Party on dude!

www.wob.com

Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?

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Subject: Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?
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 by: JAB - Sat, 4 Mar 2023 10:43 UTC

On 03/03/2023 18:29, Zaghadka wrote:
> On Fri, 3 Mar 2023 08:59:39 +0000, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action, JAB
> wrote:
>> He is on my list though of I must read one of their novels and yesterday
>> I was looking at A Scanner Darkly from my now favourite second hand
>> online bookshop. The downside is you have to avoid the temptation to get
>> another book before you've nearly finished the one you are currently
>> reading.
>
> Hmm. I seem to have that problem with games. You?
>

I made a conscious decision, I think a year ago, to try and get out of
my habit of stop buying a game just because it's cheap, play things in
my back catalogue and also don't flit between games but instead just
play one for a decent amount of time. So far it's worked pretty well.

Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?

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Subject: Re: What Have You Been Playing... IN FEBRUARY 2023?
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 by: JAB - Sat, 4 Mar 2023 11:37 UTC

On 03/03/2023 18:28, Zaghadka wrote:
> On Fri, 03 Mar 2023 09:03:33 -0500, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action, Mike
> S. wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 3 Mar 2023 09:04:05 +0000, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I can understand why some people didn't like the art style (personally I
>>> rather like the look of it) but it did feel like it brought out some of
>>> the worst in the oh no the sky is falling in crowd that seems quite
>>> common among gamers.
>>
>> This is the only post about this Monkey Island game in this thread
>> that I agree with.
>>
>> For me personally, the third game in the series looks far worse then
>> this one. I hate the way Guybrush looks in Monkey Island 3.
>
> See? And I loved the artwork in Curse. Absolutely ate it up.
>
> Long, semi-rant follows...
>
> Really, for the "the sky is falling" crowd, it's a credible Monkey Island
> game, Gilbert still has it, and they can just get over the artwork.
> Gilbert et al. went with a solid choice and stuck to it. Everyone should
> be fine with that. The comments should reasonably be limited to "meh,
> don't like it."
>
> Social media, and the need for YouTube clicks, has done a lot to amp up
> the extreme posts. That's why I quit that stuff and still come here. I
> don't think I've seen the word "travesty" or "DESTROYS" (as in: "Rihanna
> aboslutely DESTROYS her critics") ever come up here, except perhaps
> ironically.
>
> I mean the closest thing to it is Spalls and NFTs, and we all know he's
> just taking the piss.
>

I can't remember who said it but it was something alone the lines of one
of the reasons for click-bait titles is very often it's something that
the original creator didn't add and if you want your channel to be seen
then you'll almost forced to do it as everyone else does.

As a slight aside I did watch a video about How Warhammer 40k is
Destroying My Channel. The creator did say the title was part of the
main point that he wants to cover other systems but it's the videos with
40k in the title that give the large viewing figures. I hadn't, for some
reason, really thought of it like that.

> The newest generations are not. Hell, the older generations are severely
> affected. But the young folk think that's the way you talk because they
> learned it on YouTube and social media from middle school. It doesn't
> even register with my daughters how over-the-top YouTubers are these days
> (and how self-assured they are in their expertise simply because they can
> use Google). Me? I can't listen to Nostalgia Critic for more than a few
> minutes at a time. It's like they all use the same deliberately grating
> voice I refer to as "YouTuber voice."
>
> But I'm an old fart and I'm sure they'll figure out how to deal with the
> fact that they're all basically shouting at each other when they
> disagree. Hopefully, it won't lead to the collapse of democracy. Which is
> a shame, because I really like these kids, and they've got a lot going
> for them if they can learn to stop trampling on each other's opinions.
>

Very much agree, a lot of YT personalities seem only to have that
position not because of the information they give but instead how they
act. For the TV example I give you Big Brother. I remember when it first
came out as it was very much normal(ish) people living in a house. Over
the years it morphed into if you want to keep the viewing figures up
then you have to get more and more outrageous combined with the people
being pick to appear was very much based around will this person be car
crash TV, willing or not, as they want to be a reality star.

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