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computers / comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action / Re: CPU/MB/Mem Upgrade Time

SubjectAuthor
* CPU/MB/Mem Upgrade TimeJustisaur
+* Re: CPU/MB/Mem Upgrade TimeRoss Ridge
|+* Re: CPU/MB/Mem Upgrade Timerms
||+- Re: CPU/MB/Mem Upgrade TimeJustisaur
||`- Re: CPU/MB/Mem Upgrade TimeJAB
|`* Re: CPU/MB/Mem Upgrade TimeJustisaur
| `- Re: CPU/MB/Mem Upgrade TimeRoss Ridge
+* Re: CPU/MB/Mem Upgrade Timerms
|`- Re: CPU/MB/Mem Upgrade TimeJustisaur
`* Re: CPU/MB/Mem Upgrade TimeSpalls Hurgenson
 +- Re: CPU/MB/Mem Upgrade Timerms
 `* Re: CPU/MB/Mem Upgrade TimeJustisaur
  `* Re: CPU/MB/Mem Upgrade TimeSpalls Hurgenson
   `- Re: CPU/MB/Mem Upgrade TimeJustisaur

1
CPU/MB/Mem Upgrade Time

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Subject: CPU/MB/Mem Upgrade Time
From: justis...@gmail.com (Justisaur)
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 by: Justisaur - Sat, 4 Mar 2023 19:57 UTC

Wow the prices seem really high right now, but I've been getting back into Elden Ring and it's still struggling. I've been running it WSXGA+
1680×1050 windowed which works, but I'd rather go fullscreen. My CPU/MB is going on 6 years and it, as usual, was more middle of the road at the time, and is way below recommended stats, and it's pegged at 100% the whole time, so I'm assuming that's the cause. Also my son's computer's been freezing still at least a few times a week, so I'd waterfall my current ones down to him.

What I've come up with is $450 from Newegg.

CPU: i5-13400F
MB: ASUS Prime H770-PLUS D4
RAM: 32GB DDR4 3200

https://www.newegg.com/intel-core-i5-13400f-core-i5-13th-gen/p/N82E16819118431?Item=N82E16819118431

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813119629?Item=N82E16813119629

https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232091?Item=N82E16820232091

I'm hoping if I get them all from Newegg they'll put them together for me, I've always had trouble with the fans. I know people here have suggested going for a 3rd party fan, but supposedly the fan that comes with the CPU is decent, and I'd rather not tack more $ on top if it's not necessary.

I'm going with the board partially because it has the PCI x4 which my video card is. I'd rather go with an MSI, but they boards for that CPU they have doesn't have the PCI x4 support, only PCI x5

DDR 4 3200 ram as the CPU doesn't support 5x nor higher than 3200.

Any other spots I should look for deals, or where they'll put the cpu/mb/ram together (or where they don't but still similar price with a good fan,) or anything wrong anyone sees with this setup?

- Justisaur

Re: CPU/MB/Mem Upgrade Time

<tu0e1v$12pa8$1@dont-email.me>

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From: rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca (Ross Ridge)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: CPU/MB/Mem Upgrade Time
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2023 21:43:27 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Ross Ridge - Sat, 4 Mar 2023 21:43 UTC

Justisaur <justisaur@gmail.com> wrote:
>I'm going with the board partially because it has the PCI x4 which my
>video card is. I'd rather go with an MSI, but they boards for that CPU
>they have doesn't have the PCI x4 support, only PCI x5

You seem mean it only supports the older PCI Express 4.0 standard instead
of the newer PCI Express 5.0 standard. There's no reason at all not to
get a motherboard that supports PCIe 5.0 as it's backwards compatible
and you may be able benefit from it in the future. The x# notation in
relation to PCIe ports refers to something else, the number of lanes a
given slot supports. The PCIe version number determines how fast each
lane can go, multiply that speed by the number of lanes to get the total
bandwith the slot or card is capable of.

The PCIe slot closest to the CPU on the ASUS Prime H770-PLUS D4
motherboard is a actually PCIe 5.0 x16 slot and this is the slot you
should put your video card in. It doesn't matter if your video card only
supports PCIe 4.0, or 3.0, 2.0, or 1.0 for that matter. It doesn't matter
if it's a x16, x8, or even a x4 lane card. For the best performance you
always want to put graphics cards in the x16 slot closest to the CPU,
because this slot is connected directly to the CPU. The other slots
are routed through a seperate chip, and this just slows things down.

(Somewhat confusing the other x16 slots, the really long ones, normally
only have 4 or 1 lanes connected, so that's another reason you don't
want to use them.)

Don't confuse this with DDR4 and DDR5 memory, whcih are indeed
incompatible, and use completely different interfaces from PCI Express.
There is also no such thing as 5x memory, it's just called DDR5 for short.

>I'm hoping if I get them all from Newegg they'll put them together for
>me,

They won't. They might not even be shipped together. Look for a local
store if you want this kind of service, but don't expect it for free.

>I've always had trouble with the fans. I know people here have
>suggested going for a 3rd party fan, but supposedly the fan that comes
>with the CPU is decent, and I'd rather not tack more $ on top if it's
>not necessary.

I've heard conflicting reports on how good the stock CPU coolers Intel
is shipping in its boxed CPU are supposed to be. At best though they
seem to be OK'ish, good enough most of the time, but heavy loads might
cause CPU throttling. It's something you can upgrade later though if
it becomes a problem.

>Any other spots I should look for deals, or where they'll put the
>cpu/mb/ram together (or where they don't but still similar price with a
>good fan,) or anything wrong anyone sees with this setup?

One thing you may not be aware of is that the Intel i5-13400F, like
many other 12th and 13th generation Alder Lake and Raptor Lake CPUs,
has a hybrid architecture. This means it has both fast performance CPU
cores and slow efficient CPU cores. The i5-13400F in particular has 6
performance cores and 4 efficiency cores.

To make the best use of this hybrid architecture you need to be running
Windows 11. It has a smart scheduler that will put tasks that need high
performance on the performance cores, while using the efficiency cores
for less demanding tasks. Windows 10 and earlier will treat these cores
as being identical, and this will hurt performance. Windows 11 is a free
upgrade if you have Windows 10 or 7, so it shouldn't cost you anything,
but not everyone is a fan of the latest version of Windows. If you want
to use an older version of Windows you should disable the efficiency
cores, or get a CPU without them like the i5-12400F or something from AMD.

Finally you may want to consider getting an NVMe SSD drive. They're a lot
faster than SATA SSD drives, and plug into directly into an M.2 slot on
the motherboard. (This is another case where you want to use the slot
closest to the CPU, as this M.2 is also connected directly the CPU.)
SSD prices have come down a lot recently, so you can get a decent 1TB
NVMe drive for US $60 (eg. the WD_BLACK SN770).

--
l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo] rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca:11068/
db //

Re: CPU/MB/Mem Upgrade Time

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From: rsquires...@MOOflashMOO.net (rms)
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Subject: Re: CPU/MB/Mem Upgrade Time
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2023 16:28:23 -0700
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 by: rms - Sat, 4 Mar 2023 23:28 UTC

Any chance you are near a Microcenter? They have some great deals
going.....
https://www.microcenter.com/site/content/bundle-and-save.aspx

rms

Re: CPU/MB/Mem Upgrade Time

<tu0kte$13hti$1@dont-email.me>

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Subject: Re: CPU/MB/Mem Upgrade Time
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 by: rms - Sat, 4 Mar 2023 23:40 UTC

Lots of great advice from Ross Ridge! It's definitely worth your time to
educate yourself on the jargon used with newer PC builds. You might also
use a site like https://pcpartpicker.com/ which has many sample builds for
different price ranges. Don't be too quick to make a purchase, and don't be
scared of putting things together yourself, it can be very satisfying!

rms

Re: CPU/MB/Mem Upgrade Time

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Subject: Re: CPU/MB/Mem Upgrade Time
From: justis...@gmail.com (Justisaur)
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 by: Justisaur - Sun, 5 Mar 2023 03:15 UTC

On Saturday, March 4, 2023 at 3:40:32 PM UTC-8, rms wrote:
> Lots of great advice from Ross Ridge! It's definitely worth your time to
> educate yourself on the jargon used with newer PC builds. You might also
> use a site like https://pcpartpicker.com/ which has many sample builds for
> different price ranges. Don't be too quick to make a purchase, and don't be
> scared of putting things together yourself, it can be very satisfying!
>
> rms

I've always done so in the past, heck I used to work at a local mom & pop
computer store where we sold and put computers together... around 30
years ago.

I've just had some issues with the intel fans the last several times. the springs
and plastic spike things were horrendous to work with. I assume people who
do it regularly get good at doing it. I suppose I should look up an install video
for that model and see if it looks like something I want to do. If not I can buy
a good 3rd party one if it's less than having someone else do it.

- Justisaur

Re: CPU/MB/Mem Upgrade Time

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 by: JAB - Sun, 5 Mar 2023 11:42 UTC

On 04/03/2023 23:40, rms wrote:
> Lots of great advice from Ross Ridge!  It's definitely worth your time
> to educate yourself on the jargon used with newer PC builds.  You might
> also use a site like https://pcpartpicker.com/  which has many sample
> builds for different price ranges.  Don't be too quick to make a
> purchase, and don't be scared of putting things together yourself, it
> can be very satisfying!
>

That's what I've done previously but for my last upgrade I did a hybrid
of buy the CPU+RAM+MB pre-built and tested and then fit it myself.

Re: CPU/MB/Mem Upgrade Time

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Subject: Re: CPU/MB/Mem Upgrade Time
From: justis...@gmail.com (Justisaur)
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 by: Justisaur - Sun, 5 Mar 2023 16:27 UTC

On Saturday, March 4, 2023 at 3:28:28 PM UTC-8, rms wrote:
> Any chance you are near a Microcenter? They have some great deals
> going.....
> https://www.microcenter.com/site/content/bundle-and-save.aspx
>

Closest is a 7 hour drive. We used to have two Fry's - though they
generally had the worst computer parts, I don't know if they were
reselling failed/returned parts as new or what, but I had far
worse luck there than ordering online. There's a few Best buys
around, but they always seem to be out of whatever I want. There's
some local mom and pops, but I haven't had much luck with them
since the one I worked at closed decades ago.

- Justisaur

Re: CPU/MB/Mem Upgrade Time

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Subject: Re: CPU/MB/Mem Upgrade Time
From: justis...@gmail.com (Justisaur)
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 by: Justisaur - Sun, 5 Mar 2023 17:14 UTC

On Saturday, March 4, 2023 at 1:43:30 PM UTC-8, Ross Ridge wrote:
....
> If you want
> to use an older version of Windows you should disable the efficiency
> cores, or get a CPU without them like the i5-12400F or something from AMD..

I was mulling this over last night, I looked into the AMD, and it looks like
they're still a bit more expensive for what you get, and the ones
I was looking at required a more expensive board and the more expensive
DDR5 ram.

The i5-12400F looks like a really good deal though, Newegg has them for
$158 (higher on Amazon) so that's $51 less. Also uses the
same MB/Ram so I don't have to go digging through those again.

I also see the i3-12100F which is going for $80 on Newegg, so that's
$72 I could save, that's still way above recommended specs for both
Elden Ring and Assassin's Creed: Valhalla which are the two games
I've been having trouble with. Though another 5% less st performance
for ER, and 25% less for mt AC:V. It also seems weird to me to be
spending that much more for the MB than the CPU too.

I looked up the fan installation and the stock fan still has those weird
plastic spike toggle locks which I've hated every time, so I'll have to
look around to see if there's good 3rd party heatsink/fans that install
easier, if anyone has any recommendations there.

- Justisaur

Re: CPU/MB/Mem Upgrade Time

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From: rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca (Ross Ridge)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: CPU/MB/Mem Upgrade Time
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2023 18:40:25 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Ross Ridge - Sun, 5 Mar 2023 18:40 UTC

Justisaur <justisaur@gmail.com> wrote:
>I was mulling this over last night, I looked into the AMD, and it looks like
>they're still a bit more expensive for what you get, and the ones
>I was looking at required a more expensive board and the more expensive
>DDR5 ram.

Yah, the AM5 platform doesn't offer great value because of the more
expensive motherboards and DDR5 RAM. AMD recently launched a bunch of
motherboard/CPU/RAM bundles that are ment to address that, but I don't
know that actually affects things. AMD AM5 CPUs currently come bundled
with Star Wars Jedi: Survivor, so I suppose they could be a good deal
if you were planning on buying that game anyways.

>The i5-12400F looks like a really good deal though, Newegg has them for
>$158 (higher on Amazon) so that's $51 less. Also uses the
>same MB/Ram so I don't have to go digging through those again.

You might also be able to save money by getting a 600 series motherboard
instead of 700 series one. They're compatible with the same CPUs, but
might need a BIOS update to work with 13th generation (13xxx) processors.
Many of them have a way of flashing the BIOS without having a CPU or
RAM installed, just the 24-pin power connector attached.

You could also get a B660 or B760 motherboard and probably save some
money over the H770 one you were thinking about getting.

>I looked up the fan installation and the stock fan still has those weird
>plastic spike toggle locks which I've hated every time, so I'll have to
>look around to see if there's good 3rd party heatsink/fans that install
>easier, if anyone has any recommendations there.

Most third party "tower coolers" don't use those plastic pins, but
how easy they are to install depends a lot on the particular product.
I'd recommend reading the installation manuals before buying anything.

I bought a DeepCool AG400 recently to replace the stock cooler on my
current PC, after I, uh, broke the pins when replacing it after cleaning
the heat sink. I haven't got around to installing yet, so far the
stock cooler is managing to stay in place with just one working pin,
and fixing what wasn't broken is what got me in this mess.

I'm also planning on using the same cooler with the new computer I'm
building. Supposedly the AG400 is good enough to cool an i9-13900K in
most workloads, so should be more than good enough to cool whatever mid
range CPU I end up getting. One nice thing about this cooler is that
you can install it with the fan already attached. Most tower coolers
require that you put the fan on after attaching the heat sink to the
motherboard because the fan blocks the screws you need to tighten.
It's also relatively cheap, only $25.

--
l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo] rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca:11068/
db //

Re: CPU/MB/Mem Upgrade Time

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From: spallshu...@gmail.com (Spalls Hurgenson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: CPU/MB/Mem Upgrade Time
Date: Sun, 05 Mar 2023 14:16:54 -0500
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 by: Spalls Hurgenson - Sun, 5 Mar 2023 19:16 UTC

On Sat, 4 Mar 2023 11:57:15 -0800 (PST), Justisaur
<justisaur@gmail.com> wrote:

>Wow the prices seem really high right now, but I've been getting back into Elden Ring and it's still struggling. I've been running it WSXGA+
>1680×1050 windowed which works, but I'd rather go fullscreen. My CPU/MB is going on 6 years and it, as usual, was more middle of the road at the time, and is way below recommended stats, and it's pegged at 100% the whole time, so I'm assuming that's the cause. Also my son's computer's been freezing still at least a few times a week, so I'd waterfall my current ones down to him.
>
>What I've come up with is $450 from Newegg.

I'd be wary buying from NewEgg. Although they have a slick website,
with good range of merchandise and decent prices... they also have a
reputation for reselling returned goods as 'brand new', and have been
known to ship broken merchandise intended to be sent back to OEM for
refurbishment to the customers instead. Essentially, everything in
stock is all on the same shelf and when you order, they just grab the
nearest item.

Which isn't to say they are unique in this (cough cough Amazon cough)
but NewEgg seems particularly malicious in it.

Love their website, though. They have so much useful info on every
item that it's become the first place I check whenever I need to
identify a piece of old hardware I find. ;-)

Re: CPU/MB/Mem Upgrade Time

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Subject: Re: CPU/MB/Mem Upgrade Time
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 by: rms - Sun, 5 Mar 2023 22:32 UTC

>Love their website, though. They have so much useful info on every
>item that it's become the first place I check whenever I need to
>identify a piece of old hardware I find. ;-)

yeah, it's the same with me and book reviews on Amazon, it's the first
place I look. That seems horribly wrong.

rms

Re: CPU/MB/Mem Upgrade Time

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Subject: Re: CPU/MB/Mem Upgrade Time
From: justis...@gmail.com (Justisaur)
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 by: Justisaur - Mon, 6 Mar 2023 15:39 UTC

On Sunday, March 5, 2023 at 11:17:08 AM UTC-8, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Mar 2023 11:57:15 -0800 (PST), Justisaur
> <just...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Wow the prices seem really high right now, but I've been getting back into Elden Ring and it's still struggling. I've been running it WSXGA+
> >1680×1050 windowed which works, but I'd rather go fullscreen. My CPU/MB is going on 6 years and it, as usual, was more middle of the road at the time, and is way below recommended stats, and it's pegged at 100% the whole time, so I'm assuming that's the cause. Also my son's computer's been freezing still at least a few times a week, so I'd waterfall my current ones down to him.
> >
> >What I've come up with is $450 from Newegg.
> I'd be wary buying from NewEgg. Although they have a slick website,
> with good range of merchandise and decent prices... they also have a
> reputation for reselling returned goods as 'brand new', and have been
> known to ship broken merchandise intended to be sent back to OEM for
> refurbishment to the customers instead. Essentially, everything in
> stock is all on the same shelf and when you order, they just grab the
> nearest item.

Hmm... I just noticed the prices on a couple things I quoted are from 3rd
party sellers, which I didn't even know Newegg did. Oh and one of those
CPUs was 'open box'. I haven't had any issues with anything I've bought
from Amazon, and between my wife and I we've bought a lot. I got my last
couple upgrades from Newegg without issue as well. And on the other
hand I had issues with almost all the computer parts I bought locally
from Fry's before I stopped buying computer parts from them.

I'm not buying any computer parts 'open box' especially a cpu.

So where you do buy parts if local isn't an option and Newegg and
Amazon are both suspect? (Local Bestbuy is about it, but as I
said they seem to always be out of whatever I want, even if I
order online with shipping.)

- Justisaur

Re: CPU/MB/Mem Upgrade Time

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 by: Spalls Hurgenson - Mon, 6 Mar 2023 16:33 UTC

On Mon, 6 Mar 2023 07:39:34 -0800 (PST), Justisaur
<justisaur@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, March 5, 2023 at 11:17:08?AM UTC-8, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>> On Sat, 4 Mar 2023 11:57:15 -0800 (PST), Justisaur
>> <just...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Wow the prices seem really high right now, but I've been getting back into Elden Ring and it's still struggling. I've been running it WSXGA+
>> >1680×1050 windowed which works, but I'd rather go fullscreen. My CPU/MB is going on 6 years and it, as usual, was more middle of the road at the time, and is way below recommended stats, and it's pegged at 100% the whole time, so I'm assuming that's the cause. Also my son's computer's been freezing still at least a few times a week, so I'd waterfall my current ones down to him.
>> >
>> >What I've come up with is $450 from Newegg.
>> I'd be wary buying from NewEgg. Although they have a slick website,
>> with good range of merchandise and decent prices... they also have a
>> reputation for reselling returned goods as 'brand new', and have been
>> known to ship broken merchandise intended to be sent back to OEM for
>> refurbishment to the customers instead. Essentially, everything in
>> stock is all on the same shelf and when you order, they just grab the
>> nearest item.
>
>Hmm... I just noticed the prices on a couple things I quoted are from 3rd
>party sellers, which I didn't even know Newegg did. Oh and one of those
>CPUs was 'open box'. I haven't had any issues with anything I've bought
>from Amazon, and between my wife and I we've bought a lot. I got my last
>couple upgrades from Newegg without issue as well. And on the other
>hand I had issues with almost all the computer parts I bought locally
>from Fry's before I stopped buying computer parts from them.

>I'm not buying any computer parts 'open box' especially a cpu.

Open-box isn't necessarily a bad thing, assuming a) it's made clear
what you are getting, b) the price is significantly reduced, c)
there's been some attempt to assure the product being resold is still
fit for use, and d) there's a fair return policy if the parts are
defective.

NewEgg has been caught skimping on a) and c), often isn't very good at
b) and works hard against d). There have been reports of their
shipping items obviously intended to be sent back to the manufacturer
for refurb (complete with paperwork informing the OEM of the problem)
being sent to a customer instead. And then trying to blame the
customer when the broken hardware didn't work.

Of course, according to NewEgg it was all "an error" probably done by
some poor schmoe in warehousing, but since there have been multiple
reports of the issue, they don't seem to care enough to fix the error.

(side note: I haven't been following up on this story, which broke
about six months ago. It is quite possible that NewEgg has taken steps
to fix things... but I wouldn't bet on it. The company has /always/
been sort of sleazy and lazy).

>So where you do buy parts if local isn't an option and Newegg and
>Amazon are both suspect? (Local Bestbuy is about it, but as I
>said they seem to always be out of whatever I want, even if I
>order online with shipping.)

That is the problem, isn't it?

Direct from manufacturer is often the best bet, but a) it requires
them to do sales directly to customers themselves (not really an
option with Intel or AMD) and b) it usually means higher prices.

Myself - as much as I hate myself for it - I tend to go with Amazon,
just because returns are so easy. Yes, there's no guarantee the part
will work or isn't counterfeit,

(although these days counterfeits are becoming so prevalent that even
brick-n-mortar retail stores are getting confused. Hell, if it's a
low-stock item, they just might buy it from Amazon themselves just to
have a few in inventory)

but being able to ship something back with virtually no hassle means a
lot of the pain of getting sent a knock-off / broken product is
minimized.

The best you can do is try to avoid the skeeviest resellers.
Personally, I'd be happy if storefronts like Amazon and NewEgg and the
rest got rid of third-party resellers entirely, or at least there
being regulations that force them to accept liability for all products
sold through their services. Until then, it's very much caveat emptor.

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 by: Justisaur - Tue, 14 Mar 2023 22:50 UTC

On Friday, March 10, 2023 at 8:23:32 AM UTC-8, Justisaur wrote:

> I went a bit cheap on the fan, A Thermalright Assassin tower for $20
> but in videos it looked easier to install than anything I looked at except
> the Noctua which was a minimum of $50 for a similar tower.

I got everything, but the fan was missing the LGA 1700 backplate, so
I can't actually install it, trying to return it and get another. It had 2 of
the LGA 115x/1200 backplates instead :(

- Justisaur

1
server_pubkey.txt

rocksolid light 0.9.7
clearnet tor