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computers / comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action / Re: A fun question posed to OpenAI

SubjectAuthor
* A fun question posed to OpenAIDMP
+* Re: A fun question posed to OpenAISpalls Hurgenson
|+* Re: A fun question posed to OpenAIZaghadka
||+* Re: A fun question posed to OpenAIJustisaur
|||`* Re: A fun question posed to OpenAIJAB
||| `* Re: A fun question posed to OpenAISpalls Hurgenson
|||  +* Re: A fun question posed to OpenAIZaghadka
|||  |+* Re: A fun question posed to OpenAIJustisaur
|||  ||`- Re: A fun question posed to OpenAIZaghadka
|||  |`- Re: A fun question posed to OpenAIAnssi Saari
|||  +- Re: A fun question posed to OpenAIJAB
|||  `* Re: A fun question posed to OpenAIZaghadka
|||   +- Re: A fun question posed to OpenAIWerner P.
|||   `* Re: A fun question posed to OpenAIAnssi Saari
|||    +- Re: A fun question posed to OpenAIZaghadka
|||    `- Re: A fun question posed to OpenAIRoss Ridge
||`- Re: A fun question posed to OpenAIWerner P.
|`- Re: A fun question posed to OpenAIRin Stowleigh
+- Re: A fun question posed to OpenAIZaghadka
+* Re: A fun question posed to OpenAIZaghadka
|`* Re: A fun question posed to OpenAIMike S.
| `- Re: A fun question posed to OpenAIJustisaur
`* Re: A fun question posed to OpenAIJAB
 +- Re: A fun question posed to OpenAIMike S.
 +- Re: A fun question posed to OpenAISpalls Hurgenson
 `* Re: A fun question posed to OpenAIWerner P.
  `* Re: A fun question posed to OpenAIMike S.
   `* Re: A fun question posed to OpenAISpalls Hurgenson
    `* Re: A fun question posed to OpenAIMike S.
     `* Re: A fun question posed to OpenAISpalls Hurgenson
      +* Re: A fun question posed to OpenAIZaghadka
      |`- Re: A fun question posed to OpenAIJAB
      `* Re: A fun question posed to OpenAIMike S.
       `* Re: A fun question posed to OpenAISpalls Hurgenson
        `- Re: A fun question posed to OpenAIMike S.

Pages:12
A fun question posed to OpenAI

<tv7cr8$32qba$1@dont-email.me>

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From: mungem...@nospam.com (DMP)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: A fun question posed to OpenAI
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2023 12:22:00 -0400
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 by: DMP - Sun, 19 Mar 2023 16:22 UTC

What are the best crpg's of all time? The brain answered, my question
was "highly subjective" and was a matter of "personal preference"

But it did answer

Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
Planescape: Torment
Fallout 2
The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
Divinity: Original Sin II
Witcher 3: Wild Hunt
Mass Effect 2
Chrono Trigger
Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire
Ultima VII: The Black Gate

Re: A fun question posed to OpenAI

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NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2023 19:36:18 +0000
From: spallshu...@gmail.com (Spalls Hurgenson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: A fun question posed to OpenAI
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2023 15:36:17 -0400
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 by: Spalls Hurgenson - Sun, 19 Mar 2023 19:36 UTC

On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 12:22:00 -0400, DMP <mungemaid@nospam.com> wrote:

>What are the best crpg's of all time? The brain answered, my question
>was "highly subjective" and was a matter of "personal preference"
>
>But it did answer
>
>Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
>Planescape: Torment
>Fallout 2
>The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
>Divinity: Original Sin II
>Witcher 3: Wild Hunt
>Mass Effect 2
>Chrono Trigger
>Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire
>Ultima VII: The Black Gate

I mean, that's not a very hard question for one of these not-AIs to
answer. A google search would probably give you a similiar result.

Besides, "Gothic 2" isn't in the list. How intelligent can an
artificial intelligence really be if that game isn't at the top of
that list? It's like it's never even PLAYED any of these games but is
just compiling a list of the top games cited by the Internet ;-P

Re: A fun question posed to OpenAI

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From: zagha...@hotmail.com (Zaghadka)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: A fun question posed to OpenAI
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2023 18:24:01 -0500
Organization: E. Nygma & Sons, LLC
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 by: Zaghadka - Sun, 19 Mar 2023 23:24 UTC

On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 12:22:00 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action, DMP
wrote:

>What are the best crpg's of all time? The brain answered, my question
>was "highly subjective" and was a matter of "personal preference"
>
>But it did answer
>
>Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
>Planescape: Torment
>Fallout 2
>The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
>Divinity: Original Sin II
>Witcher 3: Wild Hunt
>Mass Effect 2
>Chrono Trigger
>Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire
>Ultima VII: The Black Gate

Seems to like the number "2." And prefers sequels in general.

At least it didn't pick Witcher 2.

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

Re: A fun question posed to OpenAI

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From: zagha...@hotmail.com (Zaghadka)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: A fun question posed to OpenAI
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2023 18:25:18 -0500
Organization: E. Nygma & Sons, LLC
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 by: Zaghadka - Sun, 19 Mar 2023 23:25 UTC

On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 15:36:17 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

>On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 12:22:00 -0400, DMP <mungemaid@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>>What are the best crpg's of all time? The brain answered, my question
>>was "highly subjective" and was a matter of "personal preference"
>>
>>But it did answer
>>
>>Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
>>Planescape: Torment
>>Fallout 2
>>The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
>>Divinity: Original Sin II
>>Witcher 3: Wild Hunt
>>Mass Effect 2
>>Chrono Trigger
>>Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire
>>Ultima VII: The Black Gate
>
>
>I mean, that's not a very hard question for one of these not-AIs to
>answer. A google search would probably give you a similiar result.
>
>Besides, "Gothic 2" isn't in the list. How intelligent can an
>artificial intelligence really be if that game isn't at the top of
>that list? It's like it's never even PLAYED any of these games but is
>just compiling a list of the top games cited by the Internet ;-P
>
>
Fallout 2 as opposed to Fallout 3? I have no idea what Internet made that
determination. Certainly not this one.

I would've expected FO4 by what I see on the Intertubes.

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

Re: A fun question posed to OpenAI

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From: zagha...@hotmail.com (Zaghadka)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: A fun question posed to OpenAI
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2023 18:29:24 -0500
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 by: Zaghadka - Sun, 19 Mar 2023 23:29 UTC

On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 12:22:00 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action, DMP
wrote:

>What are the best crpg's of all time? The brain answered, my question
>was "highly subjective" and was a matter of "personal preference"
>
>But it did answer
>
>Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
>Planescape: Torment
>Fallout 2
>The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
>Divinity: Original Sin II
>Witcher 3: Wild Hunt
>Mass Effect 2
>Chrono Trigger
>Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire
>Ultima VII: The Black Gate

Here's what I got from Bing (Chat-GPT):

There are many great CRPGs out there, and it’s hard to pick the best
ones. According to levelskip.com, some of the best CRPGs of all time are:

1. Bard’s Tale (1985)
2. Pool of Radiance (1988)
3. Eye of the Beholder (1990)
4. Ultima VII: The Black Gate (1992)
5. Betrayal at Krondor (1993)
6. Fallout (1997)
7. Might & Magic VI: The Mandate of Heaven (1998)
8. Baldur’s Gate (1998)

Another great CRPG that is often mentioned is Baldur’s Gate II: Shadows
of Amn which is considered one of the greatest CRPGs of all time. Disco
Elysium, Divinity: Original Sin II, Dragon Age: Origins, and Fallout 2
are also some of the best CRPGs ever made.

Someone *really* likes Fallout 2. I thought it was a bug-fest.

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

Re: A fun question posed to OpenAI

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From: rstowle...@x-nospam-x.com (Rin Stowleigh)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: A fun question posed to OpenAI
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2023 20:42:11 -0400
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 by: Rin Stowleigh - Mon, 20 Mar 2023 00:42 UTC

Probably the real news here is that ARTIFICIAL intelligence isn't
close enough to REAL intelligence to distinguish fact from opinion. If
they haven't got that part right yet, the technology is poised to do
WAAAYYY more harm than good.

Re: A fun question posed to OpenAI

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From: now...@nochance.com (JAB)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: A fun question posed to OpenAI
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2023 10:32:44 +0000
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 by: JAB - Mon, 20 Mar 2023 10:32 UTC

On 19/03/2023 16:22, DMP wrote:
> What are the best crpg's of all time? The brain answered, my question
> was "highly subjective" and was a matter of "personal preference"
>
> But it did answer
>
> Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
> Planescape: Torment
> Fallout 2
> The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
> Divinity: Original Sin II
> Witcher 3: Wild Hunt
> Mass Effect 2
> Chrono Trigger
> Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire
> Ultima VII: The Black Gate

If a real person made that list the only one that would stand out as
slightly strange is Chrono Trigger as it doesn't feel like it really
fits with the rest of the list.

Re: A fun question posed to OpenAI

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From: Mik...@nowhere.com (Mike S.)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: A fun question posed to OpenAI
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 by: Mike S. - Mon, 20 Mar 2023 14:17 UTC

On Mon, 20 Mar 2023 10:32:44 +0000, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:

>If a real person made that list the only one that would stand out as
>slightly strange is Chrono Trigger as it doesn't feel like it really
>fits with the rest of the list.

Chronotrigger is considered to be one of the greatest RPGs of all time
but yeah, it still seems like the odd man out in this list.

Re: A fun question posed to OpenAI

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Subject: Re: A fun question posed to OpenAI
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 by: Mike S. - Mon, 20 Mar 2023 14:20 UTC

On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 18:29:24 -0500, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>Here's what I got from Bing (Chat-GPT):
>
>There are many great CRPGs out there, and it’s hard to pick the best
>ones. According to levelskip.com, some of the best CRPGs of all time are:
>
>1. Bard’s Tale (1985)
>2. Pool of Radiance (1988)
>3. Eye of the Beholder (1990)
>4. Ultima VII: The Black Gate (1992)
>5. Betrayal at Krondor (1993)
>6. Fallout (1997)
>7. Might & Magic VI: The Mandate of Heaven (1998)
>8. Baldur’s Gate (1998)

I like this list a lot more then the first one.

>Someone *really* likes Fallout 2. I thought it was a bug-fest.

Maybe it has been fixed since you played it. If not by the developer,
then perhaps by gamers themselves over the years.

Re: A fun question posed to OpenAI

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Subject: Re: A fun question posed to OpenAI
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 by: Spalls Hurgenson - Mon, 20 Mar 2023 15:00 UTC

On Mon, 20 Mar 2023 10:32:44 +0000, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:
>On 19/03/2023 16:22, DMP wrote:

>> What are the best crpg's of all time? The brain answered, my question
>> was "highly subjective" and was a matter of "personal preference"
>> But it did answer

>> Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
>> Planescape: Torment
>> Fallout 2
>> The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
>> Divinity: Original Sin II
>> Witcher 3: Wild Hunt
>> Mass Effect 2
>> Chrono Trigger
>> Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire
>> Ultima VII: The Black Gate

>If a real person made that list the only one that would stand out as
>slightly strange is Chrono Trigger as it doesn't feel like it really
>fits with the rest of the list.

Well, it is the only one that never released on PC.
(Well, okay, it's on PC now but as an emulated game). All the rest
were PC only or received native ports.

It's not a bad list for 'best PC RPGs' (barring the unforgivable
absence of the Gothic games ;-) but it includes console RPGs? Then I'm
surprised it doesn't have Final Fantasy VII on there. Personally, I
was never a fan of JRPGs (and if I had to play one, I'll stick with
Anachronox, thank-you-very-much ;-) but FF7 is generally considered
one of the better ones.

Re: A fun question posed to OpenAI

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Subject: Re: A fun question posed to OpenAI
From: justis...@gmail.com (Justisaur)
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 by: Justisaur - Mon, 20 Mar 2023 17:09 UTC

On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 4:25:21 PM UTC-7, Zaghadka wrote:
> On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 15:36:17 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
> Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>
> >On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 12:22:00 -0400, DMP <mung...@nospam.com> wrote:
> >
> >>What are the best crpg's of all time? The brain answered, my question
> >>was "highly subjective" and was a matter of "personal preference"
> >>
> >>But it did answer
> >>
> >>Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
> >>Planescape: Torment
> >>Fallout 2
> >>The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
> >>Divinity: Original Sin II
> >>Witcher 3: Wild Hunt
> >>Mass Effect 2
> >>Chrono Trigger
> >>Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire
> >>Ultima VII: The Black Gate
> >
> >
> >I mean, that's not a very hard question for one of these not-AIs to
> >answer. A google search would probably give you a similiar result.
> >
> >Besides, "Gothic 2" isn't in the list. How intelligent can an
> >artificial intelligence really be if that game isn't at the top of
> >that list? It's like it's never even PLAYED any of these games but is
> >just compiling a list of the top games cited by the Internet ;-P
> >
> >
> Fallout 2 as opposed to Fallout 3? I have no idea what Internet made that
> determination. Certainly not this one.
>
> I would've expected FO4 by what I see on the Intertubes.

We must travel different tubes, FO4 is fairly reviled from what I see.
FONV always seems to be the golden child.

I'd certainly place FO2 highest.

- Justisaur

Re: A fun question posed to OpenAI

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Subject: Re: A fun question posed to OpenAI
From: justis...@gmail.com (Justisaur)
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 by: Justisaur - Mon, 20 Mar 2023 17:12 UTC

On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 7:20:30 AM UTC-7, Mike S. wrote:
> On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 18:29:24 -0500, Zaghadka <zagh...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> >Here's what I got from Bing (Chat-GPT):
> >
> >There are many great CRPGs out there, and it’s hard to pick the best
> >ones. According to levelskip.com, some of the best CRPGs of all time are:
> >
> >1. Bard’s Tale (1985)
> >2. Pool of Radiance (1988)
> >3. Eye of the Beholder (1990)
> >4. Ultima VII: The Black Gate (1992)
> >5. Betrayal at Krondor (1993)
> >6. Fallout (1997)
> >7. Might & Magic VI: The Mandate of Heaven (1998)
> >8. Baldur’s Gate (1998)
> I like this list a lot more then the first one.
> >Someone *really* likes Fallout 2. I thought it was a bug-fest.
> Maybe it has been fixed since you played it. If not by the developer,
> then perhaps by gamers themselves over the years.

Fan patches fixed it and then some.

I'm sad V:tM:B hasn't been mentioned. Of course that's a nearly
unplayable bugfest without Werner's patch too.

- Justisaur

Re: A fun question posed to OpenAI

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Subject: Re: A fun question posed to OpenAI
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 by: JAB - Tue, 21 Mar 2023 08:22 UTC

On 20/03/2023 17:09, Justisaur wrote:
> On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 4:25:21 PM UTC-7, Zaghadka wrote:
>> On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 15:36:17 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
>> Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 12:22:00 -0400, DMP <mung...@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> What are the best crpg's of all time? The brain answered, my question
>>>> was "highly subjective" and was a matter of "personal preference"
>>>>
>>>> But it did answer
>>>>
>>>> Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
>>>> Planescape: Torment
>>>> Fallout 2
>>>> The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
>>>> Divinity: Original Sin II
>>>> Witcher 3: Wild Hunt
>>>> Mass Effect 2
>>>> Chrono Trigger
>>>> Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire
>>>> Ultima VII: The Black Gate
>>>
>>>
>>> I mean, that's not a very hard question for one of these not-AIs to
>>> answer. A google search would probably give you a similiar result.
>>>
>>> Besides, "Gothic 2" isn't in the list. How intelligent can an
>>> artificial intelligence really be if that game isn't at the top of
>>> that list? It's like it's never even PLAYED any of these games but is
>>> just compiling a list of the top games cited by the Internet ;-P
>>>
>>>
>> Fallout 2 as opposed to Fallout 3? I have no idea what Internet made that
>> determination. Certainly not this one.
>>
>> I would've expected FO4 by what I see on the Intertubes.
>
> We must travel different tubes, FO4 is fairly reviled from what I see.
> FONV always seems to be the golden child.
>
> I'd certainly place FO2 highest.
>

I tend to agree about NV being the one that I normal see as put forward
as the best in the series. FO:4, what a waste of money that was for me.
Yes there was a large open world to explore but it just felt that most
of it lacked interest compared to FO:3/NV. The less said about the base
building part the better. What's that got to do with a FO game besides
adding filler?

Re: A fun question posed to OpenAI

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Subject: Re: A fun question posed to OpenAI
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2023 11:35:37 -0400
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 by: Spalls Hurgenson - Tue, 21 Mar 2023 15:35 UTC

On Tue, 21 Mar 2023 08:22:07 +0000, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:

>On 20/03/2023 17:09, Justisaur wrote:
>> On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 4:25:21?PM UTC-7, Zaghadka wrote:
>>> On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 15:36:17 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
>>> Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 12:22:00 -0400, DMP <mung...@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> What are the best crpg's of all time? The brain answered, my question
>>>>> was "highly subjective" and was a matter of "personal preference"
>>>>>
>>>>> But it did answer
>>>>>
>>>>> Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
>>>>> Planescape: Torment
>>>>> Fallout 2
>>>>> The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
>>>>> Divinity: Original Sin II
>>>>> Witcher 3: Wild Hunt
>>>>> Mass Effect 2
>>>>> Chrono Trigger
>>>>> Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire
>>>>> Ultima VII: The Black Gate
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I mean, that's not a very hard question for one of these not-AIs to
>>>> answer. A google search would probably give you a similiar result.
>>>>
>>>> Besides, "Gothic 2" isn't in the list. How intelligent can an
>>>> artificial intelligence really be if that game isn't at the top of
>>>> that list? It's like it's never even PLAYED any of these games but is
>>>> just compiling a list of the top games cited by the Internet ;-P
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Fallout 2 as opposed to Fallout 3? I have no idea what Internet made that
>>> determination. Certainly not this one.
>>>
>>> I would've expected FO4 by what I see on the Intertubes.
>>
>> We must travel different tubes, FO4 is fairly reviled from what I see.
>> FONV always seems to be the golden child.
>>
>> I'd certainly place FO2 highest.
>>
>
>I tend to agree about NV being the one that I normal see as put forward
>as the best in the series. FO:4, what a waste of money that was for me.
>Yes there was a large open world to explore but it just felt that most
>of it lacked interest compared to FO:3/NV. The less said about the base
>building part the better. What's that got to do with a FO game besides
>adding filler?

Don't forget the crafting! Ooh, and those ever-so-fun repetitive
procedural missions to defend the base from raiders!

But, for me at least, those were just annoyances on an already sub-par
game. There was so much more about "Fallout 4" that I found annoying;
it's uninteresting characters, its dull landscapes, its clunky engine,
its unexciting missions. There was no novelty to the game; there was
nothing that made it stand out. It felt tired. And after so many
games, it's no surprise; the whole post-nuclear 1950s-themed schtick
was getting really old, and the setting's fiction was becoming
increasingly creaky as more and more complexities were bolted onto it.
The game took no risks, and demanded none from the player.

Re: A fun question posed to OpenAI

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 by: Zaghadka - Tue, 21 Mar 2023 20:20 UTC

On Tue, 21 Mar 2023 11:35:37 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

>On Tue, 21 Mar 2023 08:22:07 +0000, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:
>
>>On 20/03/2023 17:09, Justisaur wrote:
>>> On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 4:25:21?PM UTC-7, Zaghadka wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 15:36:17 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
>>>> Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 12:22:00 -0400, DMP <mung...@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> What are the best crpg's of all time? The brain answered, my question
>>>>>> was "highly subjective" and was a matter of "personal preference"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But it did answer
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
>>>>>> Planescape: Torment
>>>>>> Fallout 2
>>>>>> The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
>>>>>> Divinity: Original Sin II
>>>>>> Witcher 3: Wild Hunt
>>>>>> Mass Effect 2
>>>>>> Chrono Trigger
>>>>>> Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire
>>>>>> Ultima VII: The Black Gate
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I mean, that's not a very hard question for one of these not-AIs to
>>>>> answer. A google search would probably give you a similiar result.
>>>>>
>>>>> Besides, "Gothic 2" isn't in the list. How intelligent can an
>>>>> artificial intelligence really be if that game isn't at the top of
>>>>> that list? It's like it's never even PLAYED any of these games but is
>>>>> just compiling a list of the top games cited by the Internet ;-P
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Fallout 2 as opposed to Fallout 3? I have no idea what Internet made that
>>>> determination. Certainly not this one.
>>>>
>>>> I would've expected FO4 by what I see on the Intertubes.
>>>
>>> We must travel different tubes, FO4 is fairly reviled from what I see.
>>> FONV always seems to be the golden child.
>>>
>>> I'd certainly place FO2 highest.
>>>
>>
>>I tend to agree about NV being the one that I normal see as put forward
>>as the best in the series. FO:4, what a waste of money that was for me.
>>Yes there was a large open world to explore but it just felt that most
>>of it lacked interest compared to FO:3/NV. The less said about the base
>>building part the better. What's that got to do with a FO game besides
>>adding filler?
>
>Don't forget the crafting! Ooh, and those ever-so-fun repetitive
>procedural missions to defend the base from raiders!
>
Easily avoided by literally never talking to Preston Garvey again after
you get the power armor. Weapon mods are another thing entirely.

Or by just saying "Sucks to be you! I'm over here on Far Harbor."

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

Re: A fun question posed to OpenAI

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Subject: Re: A fun question posed to OpenAI
From: justis...@gmail.com (Justisaur)
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 by: Justisaur - Tue, 21 Mar 2023 22:22 UTC

On Tuesday, March 21, 2023 at 1:21:00 PM UTC-7, Zaghadka wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Mar 2023 11:35:37 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
> Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>
> >On Tue, 21 Mar 2023 08:22:07 +0000, JAB <no...@nochance.com> wrote:
> >
> >>On 20/03/2023 17:09, Justisaur wrote:
> >>> On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 4:25:21?PM UTC-7, Zaghadka wrote:
> >>>> On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 15:36:17 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
> >>>> Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 12:22:00 -0400, DMP <mung...@nospam.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> What are the best crpg's of all time? The brain answered, my question
> >>>>>> was "highly subjective" and was a matter of "personal preference"
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> But it did answer
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
> >>>>>> Planescape: Torment
> >>>>>> Fallout 2
> >>>>>> The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
> >>>>>> Divinity: Original Sin II
> >>>>>> Witcher 3: Wild Hunt
> >>>>>> Mass Effect 2
> >>>>>> Chrono Trigger
> >>>>>> Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire
> >>>>>> Ultima VII: The Black Gate
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I mean, that's not a very hard question for one of these not-AIs to
> >>>>> answer. A google search would probably give you a similiar result.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Besides, "Gothic 2" isn't in the list. How intelligent can an
> >>>>> artificial intelligence really be if that game isn't at the top of
> >>>>> that list? It's like it's never even PLAYED any of these games but is
> >>>>> just compiling a list of the top games cited by the Internet ;-P
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> Fallout 2 as opposed to Fallout 3? I have no idea what Internet made that
> >>>> determination. Certainly not this one.
> >>>>
> >>>> I would've expected FO4 by what I see on the Intertubes.
> >>>
> >>> We must travel different tubes, FO4 is fairly reviled from what I see..
> >>> FONV always seems to be the golden child.
> >>>
> >>> I'd certainly place FO2 highest.
> >>>
> >>
> >>I tend to agree about NV being the one that I normal see as put forward
> >>as the best in the series. FO:4, what a waste of money that was for me.
> >>Yes there was a large open world to explore but it just felt that most
> >>of it lacked interest compared to FO:3/NV. The less said about the base
> >>building part the better. What's that got to do with a FO game besides
> >>adding filler?
> >
> >Don't forget the crafting! Ooh, and those ever-so-fun repetitive
> >procedural missions to defend the base from raiders!
> >
> Easily avoided by literally never talking to Preston Garvey again after
> you get the power armor. Weapon mods are another thing entirely.
>
> Or by just saying "Sucks to be you! I'm over here on Far Harbor."

I think your base still gets attacked though doesn't it? Of course
you don't even actually have to build a base. I did for the purified
water, and then I set up a slew of defenses for my water empire.
After the first time it successfully defended a super-mutant attack
it seemed like it never got attacked again though.

- Justisaur

Re: A fun question posed to OpenAI

<tvel2r$j432$1@dont-email.me>

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From: now...@nochance.com (JAB)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: A fun question posed to OpenAI
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2023 10:25:28 +0000
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 by: JAB - Wed, 22 Mar 2023 10:25 UTC

On 21/03/2023 15:35, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Mar 2023 08:22:07 +0000, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:
>
>> On 20/03/2023 17:09, Justisaur wrote:
>>> On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 4:25:21?PM UTC-7, Zaghadka wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 15:36:17 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
>>>> Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 12:22:00 -0400, DMP <mung...@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> What are the best crpg's of all time? The brain answered, my question
>>>>>> was "highly subjective" and was a matter of "personal preference"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But it did answer
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
>>>>>> Planescape: Torment
>>>>>> Fallout 2
>>>>>> The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
>>>>>> Divinity: Original Sin II
>>>>>> Witcher 3: Wild Hunt
>>>>>> Mass Effect 2
>>>>>> Chrono Trigger
>>>>>> Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire
>>>>>> Ultima VII: The Black Gate
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I mean, that's not a very hard question for one of these not-AIs to
>>>>> answer. A google search would probably give you a similiar result.
>>>>>
>>>>> Besides, "Gothic 2" isn't in the list. How intelligent can an
>>>>> artificial intelligence really be if that game isn't at the top of
>>>>> that list? It's like it's never even PLAYED any of these games but is
>>>>> just compiling a list of the top games cited by the Internet ;-P
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Fallout 2 as opposed to Fallout 3? I have no idea what Internet made that
>>>> determination. Certainly not this one.
>>>>
>>>> I would've expected FO4 by what I see on the Intertubes.
>>>
>>> We must travel different tubes, FO4 is fairly reviled from what I see.
>>> FONV always seems to be the golden child.
>>>
>>> I'd certainly place FO2 highest.
>>>
>>
>> I tend to agree about NV being the one that I normal see as put forward
>> as the best in the series. FO:4, what a waste of money that was for me.
>> Yes there was a large open world to explore but it just felt that most
>> of it lacked interest compared to FO:3/NV. The less said about the base
>> building part the better. What's that got to do with a FO game besides
>> adding filler?
>
> Don't forget the crafting! Ooh, and those ever-so-fun repetitive
> procedural missions to defend the base from raiders!
>
> But, for me at least, those were just annoyances on an already sub-par
> game. There was so much more about "Fallout 4" that I found annoying;
> it's uninteresting characters, its dull landscapes, its clunky engine,
> its unexciting missions. There was no novelty to the game; there was
> nothing that made it stand out. It felt tired. And after so many
> games, it's no surprise; the whole post-nuclear 1950s-themed schtick
> was getting really old, and the setting's fiction was becoming
> increasingly creaky as more and more complexities were bolted onto it.
> The game took no risks, and demanded none from the player.
>

When of the worse aspects I found was when doing some missions for a
faction and I assumed that they would be a linked plot line but oh no,
just go to this place kill everyone and return. All those little stories
you found in the previous two games just didn't seem to be there.

Re: A fun question posed to OpenAI

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From: zagha...@hotmail.com (Zaghadka)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: A fun question posed to OpenAI
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2023 07:20:26 -0500
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 by: Zaghadka - Wed, 22 Mar 2023 12:20 UTC

On Tue, 21 Mar 2023 15:22:43 -0700 (PDT), in
comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action, Justisaur wrote:

>On Tuesday, March 21, 2023 at 1:21:00?PM UTC-7, Zaghadka wrote:
>> On Tue, 21 Mar 2023 11:35:37 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
>> Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>>
>> >On Tue, 21 Mar 2023 08:22:07 +0000, JAB <no...@nochance.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >>On 20/03/2023 17:09, Justisaur wrote:
>> >>> On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 4:25:21?PM UTC-7, Zaghadka wrote:
>> >>>> On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 15:36:17 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
>> >>>> Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> On Sun, 19 Mar 2023 12:22:00 -0400, DMP <mung...@nospam.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> What are the best crpg's of all time? The brain answered, my question
>> >>>>>> was "highly subjective" and was a matter of "personal preference"
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> But it did answer
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
>> >>>>>> Planescape: Torment
>> >>>>>> Fallout 2
>> >>>>>> The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
>> >>>>>> Divinity: Original Sin II
>> >>>>>> Witcher 3: Wild Hunt
>> >>>>>> Mass Effect 2
>> >>>>>> Chrono Trigger
>> >>>>>> Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire
>> >>>>>> Ultima VII: The Black Gate
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I mean, that's not a very hard question for one of these not-AIs to
>> >>>>> answer. A google search would probably give you a similiar result.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Besides, "Gothic 2" isn't in the list. How intelligent can an
>> >>>>> artificial intelligence really be if that game isn't at the top of
>> >>>>> that list? It's like it's never even PLAYED any of these games but is
>> >>>>> just compiling a list of the top games cited by the Internet ;-P
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>> Fallout 2 as opposed to Fallout 3? I have no idea what Internet made that
>> >>>> determination. Certainly not this one.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I would've expected FO4 by what I see on the Intertubes.
>> >>>
>> >>> We must travel different tubes, FO4 is fairly reviled from what I see.
>> >>> FONV always seems to be the golden child.
>> >>>
>> >>> I'd certainly place FO2 highest.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>I tend to agree about NV being the one that I normal see as put forward
>> >>as the best in the series. FO:4, what a waste of money that was for me.
>> >>Yes there was a large open world to explore but it just felt that most
>> >>of it lacked interest compared to FO:3/NV. The less said about the base
>> >>building part the better. What's that got to do with a FO game besides
>> >>adding filler?
>> >
>> >Don't forget the crafting! Ooh, and those ever-so-fun repetitive
>> >procedural missions to defend the base from raiders!
>> >
>> Easily avoided by literally never talking to Preston Garvey again after
>> you get the power armor. Weapon mods are another thing entirely.
>>
>> Or by just saying "Sucks to be you! I'm over here on Far Harbor."
>
>I think your base still gets attacked though doesn't it? Of course
>you don't even actually have to build a base. I did for the purified
>water, and then I set up a slew of defenses for my water empire.
>After the first time it successfully defended a super-mutant attack
>it seemed like it never got attacked again though.
>
Yeah, it still gets attacked. By the time I was in Far Harbor, I had a
large enough horde of consumables to last a lifetime. So I learned to
ignore rather than be annoyed.

But restart and never talk to Preston is the way to go, AFAIC. There are
workbenches in and around your house in Fenway Park for weapon/power
armor mods.

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

Re: A fun question posed to OpenAI

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From: zagha...@hotmail.com (Zaghadka)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: A fun question posed to OpenAI
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2023 07:38:47 -0500
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 by: Zaghadka - Wed, 22 Mar 2023 12:38 UTC

On Tue, 21 Mar 2023 11:35:37 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

>its unexciting missions. There was no novelty to the game; there was
>nothing that made it stand out.

FO4! I got absolutely hooked on the MILA Radiant quest line (Tinker Tom).
Where your quest radar shows you exactly where it is but leaves you a
spatial reasoning puzzle (some quite difficult) to figure out how to get
there. My fav was getting up to a transit train soaring above the area.
The initial "how the f__ do I get up there?" shock was precious.

Liberty Prime was also completely awesome in FO4, and I enjoyed the
factions. It also helped tremendously that I grew up near the Boston
area. Maybe that was most of its appeal as far as setting.

YMMV, but I enjoyed it more than FO:NV and got more hours out of it, and
am still working through the DLC off-and-on to this day.

I still don't understand the fuss over FO:NV. Talk about bland landscapes
and a very underwhelming Vegas, imo.

I also accidentally slaughtered all of Caesar's camp, including Caesar,
which kind of broke the ending since I had elminated that faction, but
still had to face his underlings (the accident was that I didn't realize
I was leveling Caesar's entire home base until I walked up to actual
f-ing Caesar). If you're going to design open-world, anyone can be killed
gameplay, maybe adjust the consequences, eh? I had done something that
should have taken the entire faction out of play, and its presence in the
end game made the "kill anyone you like" feature feel false to me. Kind
of the way The Walking Dead wasn't as cool after you pulled back the very
linear curtain.

The FO:NV karma death squads were also too frequently spawned and
extremely annoying and always much harder to fight than any of the
planned quest combats.

Other people thought that was all about rp, freedom, and world-building,
but the only satisfying thing I found about it was the epilogues, which
freakishly told me consequences of quests I had failed and cities I had
ruined just because I talked off-hand to one guy while exploring.
Overall, this did not match my open world explorer play style. You had to
play a progress based, quest driven strategy to get satisfaction from it.

At least it mostly wasn't on rails? Mostly.

This impressed people who were fans of the original (FO, FO2), imo. They
are vocal, but younger people like FO4 a lot. That's the corner of the
Intertubes I followed.

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

Re: A fun question posed to OpenAI

<tvf10e$l5pq$1@dont-email.me>

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From: wer...@gmx.at (Werner P.)
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Subject: Re: A fun question posed to OpenAI
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2023 14:49:02 +0100
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 by: Werner P. - Wed, 22 Mar 2023 13:49 UTC

Am 20.03.23 um 00:25 schrieb Zaghadka:
>>
> Fallout 2 as opposed to Fallout 3? I have no idea what Internet made that
> determination. Certainly not this one.
>
> I would've expected FO4 by what I see on the Intertubes.

I would rate FO2 higher than FO3!
Is FO4 even an RPG anymore I have skipped it for many reasons one being
that it had more shooter elements and RTS elements!

Re: A fun question posed to OpenAI

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Subject: Re: A fun question posed to OpenAI
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2023 14:51:05 +0100
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 by: Werner P. - Wed, 22 Mar 2023 13:51 UTC

Am 22.03.23 um 13:38 schrieb Zaghadka:
> This impressed people who were fans of the original (FO, FO2), imo. They
> are vocal, but younger people like FO4 a lot. That's the corner of the
> Intertubes I followed.
FO2 was so special due to the over the top humor, thats lacking entirely
in the newer games.
It was basically a post apocalyptic Monti Python!

Re: A fun question posed to OpenAI

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From: wer...@gmx.at (Werner P.)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: A fun question posed to OpenAI
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2023 14:52:44 +0100
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 by: Werner P. - Wed, 22 Mar 2023 13:52 UTC

Am 20.03.23 um 11:32 schrieb JAB:
>
> If a real person made that list the only one that would stand out as
> slightly strange is Chrono Trigger as it doesn't feel like it really
> fits with the rest of the list.
Chrono Trigger is the Ultima 7 of the JRPG crowd, it stands out being a
JRPG but it is highly regarded as one of the best if not the best JRGPs
(which I personally doubt, there is a ton of nostalgia into that, the
same goes for Ultima 7 while it was a huge milestone did not age that
well due to its broken combat system)

Re: A fun question posed to OpenAI

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From: as...@sci.fi (Anssi Saari)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: A fun question posed to OpenAI
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2023 15:47:50 +0200
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 by: Anssi Saari - Wed, 22 Mar 2023 13:47 UTC

Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> writes:

> I also accidentally slaughtered all of Caesar's camp, including Caesar,
> which kind of broke the ending since I had elminated that faction, but
> still had to face his underlings (the accident was that I didn't realize
> I was leveling Caesar's entire home base until I walked up to actual
> f-ing Caesar).

Well, one playthrough I intentionally walked up to Caesar and popped his
head off. Then left. Yes, annoying his empire didn't collapse right then
and there but realistically, what empire would?

> The FO:NV karma death squads were also too frequently spawned and
> extremely annoying and always much harder to fight than any of the
> planned quest combats.

I actually liked those. Good source of antivenom and XP, as I
recall. And they pretty much stopped coming when you were using fast
travel mostly.

In one playthrough I made an enemy of the Legion in the first encounter,
by wiping out their murder squad in the whatsit village.

Hardly roleplaying that everyone in the Legion magically knew I did that
with no one left alive. But it was the same thing in FO4. I remember
wiping out the Railroad leaders. To make it easier, I started with the
heavy and murdered her in her sleep since I had that ability (Mister
Sandman). No witnesses but suddenly they all hated me because they
magically sensed a change in alignment or whatever.

Re: A fun question posed to OpenAI

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From: as...@sci.fi (Anssi Saari)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: A fun question posed to OpenAI
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2023 15:56:53 +0200
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 by: Anssi Saari - Wed, 22 Mar 2023 13:56 UTC

Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> writes:

>>Don't forget the crafting! Ooh, and those ever-so-fun repetitive
>>procedural missions to defend the base from raiders!
>>

> Easily avoided by literally never talking to Preston Garvey again after
> you get the power armor. Weapon mods are another thing entirely.

That really fixed Fallout 4 for me. Or I think I walked with the
Minutemen over to Sanctuary and then went off to set up shop in the Red
Rocket station nearby.

I enjoyed planning my character and I liked improving my weapons and
armor although I ended up hoarding the power cells and ran around in
conventional armor for most of the game.

A little luck with the legendaries got me a bot-busting plasma
pistol. With a sneak attack bonus I could do massive damage on bots with
a stealth attack and pretty good in normal combat too. Came handy a few
times.

Exploring the world and side quests were decent but the writing for the
main story was just disappointing. Again.

Re: A fun question posed to OpenAI

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From: zagha...@hotmail.com (Zaghadka)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: A fun question posed to OpenAI
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2023 09:45:30 -0500
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 by: Zaghadka - Wed, 22 Mar 2023 14:45 UTC

On Wed, 22 Mar 2023 15:47:50 +0200, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
Anssi Saari wrote:

>I actually liked those. Good source of antivenom and XP, as I
>recall. And they pretty much stopped coming when you were using fast
>travel mostly.

Yeah, see? I was an explorer and they spawned *a lot*. So not as much
fast travel for me.

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

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