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computers / comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action / Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!

SubjectAuthor
* Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!Justisaur
+* Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!Dimensional Traveler
|+* Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!Justisaur
||`- Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!DMP
|`* Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!Mark P. Nelson
| `* Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!Zaghadka
|  `- Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!Dimensional Traveler
+* Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!Zaghadka
|`* Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!Justisaur
| +* Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!rms
| |`* Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!Zaghadka
| | `- Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!Justisaur
| +* Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!Zaghadka
| |`* Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!Ross Ridge
| | `* Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!Justisaur
| |  `* Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!Ross Ridge
| |   +* Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!Justisaur
| |   |`* Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!Zaghadka
| |   | `* Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!Anssi Saari
| |   |  `- Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!Justisaur
| |   +- Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!JAB
| |   `- Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!Justisaur
| `- Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!Ross Ridge
+* Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!Ross Ridge
|`* Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!Justisaur
| `* Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!Ross Ridge
|  `* Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!Justisaur
|   `* Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!Spalls Hurgenson
|    `* Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!Ant
|     `* Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!Spalls Hurgenson
|      `- Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!Zaghadka
+* Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!Ant
|+- Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!Zaghadka
|`* Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!Justisaur
| `- Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!Ant
`- Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!Anssi Saari

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Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!

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Subject: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!
From: justis...@gmail.com (Justisaur)
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 by: Justisaur - Tue, 21 Mar 2023 18:54 UTC

So more of a rant. I started putting together and swapping out the parts
with the new cpu/mb/ram I bought. I'm thinking a lot of my woes are once
again up to the ASUS mb and wonder if I'd gone with the pricier MSI I'd have
been fine.

It wouldn't recognize my boot drive as bootable and wouldn't even try. after a
lot of looking things up I found that CSM is the new Legacy mode, which as
I prefer not to use UEFI I'm still using, so I turned that on, no difference.

I was able to get it to recognize it when I put it on my usb sata adaptor (that
thing's been worth it's weight in gold since I bought it more than 10 years
ago.)

It booted, but extremely slowly, around 20 minutes, and then froze when I
tried to log in. I tried to get it to go to safe mode, what a pain that was
(that's MS's fault.) I eventually had to put my old mb/cpu/mem on a box and
hook it up to the power supply and boot sata on that, and choose to have it
reboot to safe mode, and swap the ps & it back, and it booted up in safe
mode, still very slow, then it said to not remove the USB or data loss could
occur. I couldn't find anything to fix, and sometimes it will just work after
booting to safe mode, so I pulled it and plugged it back into sata, and
nothing again, no bootable devices.

It was pissing me off it'd recognize it as bootable on USB but not off SATA
too as that proved it was capable.

I went down the wrong rabbit hole as what I could find online said I needed
to convert from MBR to GPT (UEFI) to get it to boot and started fiddling with
that, I couldn't find anything that would do it non-destructively, which would
mean there wasn't any point, as I'd be left installing windows from scratch
and lose my data.

I had thought maybe a bios update might help and went through a bunch of
back and forth with the drive contiguously while fiddling with MBR/Raid as it
wouldn't pick up my wifi adaptor in safe mode with networking, and trying to
figure out how to get it to update was difficult. Eventually I found that the
bios has a tool in it to pick up the file off the drive, and updated it. When it
finished It said something about a v... something related to UEFI needing to
be updated. (I can't get into BIOS right now, and finding any complete info
on bios' is woefully inadequate on support/internet.) I figured that might be
related to booting as well, so turned that off, but no.

As I was poking around I noticed that in the new mb bios it showed that the
drive was in raid mode, and found something to convert from raid to ACHI
which is supposed to be more compatible. I found some instructions to do
that, and started following them, but after the first step it said to go in the
bios and change it from raid to ACHI but there was no way to do that on
either bios. After I tried booting from it again it gave me an error that
/Boot/BCD was missing or corrupt. But at least it was trying to boot from
the drive connected to sata on the new mb. However it also gave that error
trying to boot from usb or the old mb, so my install was toast.

I created a recovery USB from my son's computer also on windows 10 21H2.
The repair failed and everything else appeared to be destructive, and it
appeared the recovery USB wouldn't do an in-place install/upgrade. I found
some info on running bootrec, and tried that but it didn't work either.
I at least could access the drive and see all the data was there still, but the
c:\boot folder was missing. Somehow the USBs boot got corrupted while I
did that, so I figured it was time to get the win10 iso and put that on the usb.
After I did that I tried the repair again and this time it rebooted to the SSD,
but now it gave me a blue screen sad face with inaccessible boot device.
After a couple reboots trying to get into safe mode it gave me an orange
screen with red vertical stripes.

I played around with bcdrec and repairs again and nothing. At last I was
able to get it into safe mode though. I saw it popping up saying not to
remove the USB drive or it could corrupt data for windows portable. I
thought that sounded wrong, and it shouldn't be portable, well apparently
just booting up from a usb adaptor makes it go into that permanently, but
there's a reg key to turn it off, so I did, rebooted and it started up fully into
windows with the wifi working!

It is stuck still after at least 30 minutes trying install the asus armory crate
(updater.) The CPU is sitting around 1% and is at around 23 C, which is
considerably better than it was before.

Yes, I probably should've bought an M.2 drive and installed windows anew,
but the thought of the number of hours deactivating and reactivating my
windows license, or worse having to buy an new copy of windows, then
reinstalling everything was just too daunting.

- Justisaur

Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!

<tvd3v5$8mqr$1@dont-email.me>

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From: dtra...@sonic.net (Dimensional Traveler)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2023 13:27:19 -0700
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 by: Dimensional Traveler - Tue, 21 Mar 2023 20:27 UTC

On 3/21/2023 11:54 AM, Justisaur wrote:
<large, LARGE, snip for space>
>
> Yes, I probably should've bought an M.2 drive and installed windows anew,
> but the thought of the number of hours deactivating and reactivating my
> windows license, or worse having to buy an new copy of windows, then
> reinstalling everything was just too daunting.
>
Too daunting compared to what you just went thru? What's the non-Jewish
version of "Oy vey!"?

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!

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From: zagha...@hotmail.com (Zaghadka)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!
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 by: Zaghadka - Tue, 21 Mar 2023 20:36 UTC

On Tue, 21 Mar 2023 11:54:47 -0700 (PDT), in
comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action, Justisaur wrote:

> I'm thinking a lot of my woes are once
>again up to the ASUS mb and wonder if I'd gone with the pricier MSI I'd have
>been fine.

I am never buying ASUS again.

My latest build had three strikes on the mainboard, a TUF Z390 Pro
Gaming. The first time the PCI-E lanes went screwy, eventually corrupting
the NVMe disk (whee) and causing video crashes at high frame rates in 2d
games, or just with plain video.

Bad luck then, right? The replacement was DOA.

The replacement replacement worked fine for a month, and then the second
port on the front panel USB3 stopped working right (USB2 only was
reliable). I moved the header over to the secondary and now I have two
working front panel USB3 ports. So bad header, not the case cable. I
suspected as much, but put up with the bad port for a while afraid to
touch the mainboard with as much as a feather.

When their shit failed, ASUS refused to cross ship anything. For the
first replacement I just bought a new mainboard, then returned that one
to Amazon when it was DOA.

So: 1) Serious problem, 2) Dead as a doornail, 3) USB3 glitches. This is
clearly a quality control problem.

This was supplemented by dead stupid, evasive customer service that
couldn't tell me that there was something seriously wrong with the
mainboard, or, more likely, didn't want to. They actually tried to
convince me that I should be getting x8 on the video card on the first
board, due to the presence of an NVMe drive, and like a chump I believed
them. It was a sign of PCI-E lane degradation, and I lost data for their
incompetence (and to some degree mine, I was skeptical).

I can't tell you how many times I had to mount the heat sink. It was
nuts.

It did come with a really pretty I/O backplate though. High quality. :^P

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!

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Subject: Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!
From: justis...@gmail.com (Justisaur)
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 by: Justisaur - Tue, 21 Mar 2023 21:51 UTC

On Tuesday, March 21, 2023 at 1:27:19 PM UTC-7, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> On 3/21/2023 11:54 AM, Justisaur wrote:
> <large, LARGE, snip for space>
> >
> > Yes, I probably should've bought an M.2 drive and installed windows anew,
> > but the thought of the number of hours deactivating and reactivating my
> > windows license, or worse having to buy an new copy of windows, then
> > reinstalling everything was just too daunting.
> >
> Too daunting compared to what you just went thru? What's the non-Jewish
> version of "Oy vey!"?

Considering last time I had to start from scratch it was at least a week.
I'm struggling a bit with drivers, as their updater is still stuck installing,
and all of what I'm finding on fixes for that only applies to their notebooks.

- Justisaur

Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!

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Subject: Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!
From: justis...@gmail.com (Justisaur)
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 by: Justisaur - Tue, 21 Mar 2023 22:14 UTC

On Tuesday, March 21, 2023 at 1:36:32 PM UTC-7, Zaghadka wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Mar 2023 11:54:47 -0700 (PDT), in
> comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action, Justisaur wrote:
>
> > I'm thinking a lot of my woes are once
> >again up to the ASUS mb and wonder if I'd gone with the pricier MSI I'd have
> >been fine.
> I am never buying ASUS again.

Yeah, I've always had problems when I built computers in the past with them,
but I always attributed it to other things. The MSI I got for my last build
was totally problem free (well obvious things in games that can be directly
traced to CPU and/or VC before I replaced that, and windows killing my
wifi when it wanted to reboot for patches.)

> My latest build had three strikes on the mainboard, a TUF Z390 Pro
> Gaming. The first time the PCI-E lanes went screwy, eventually corrupting
> the NVMe disk (whee) and causing video crashes at high frame rates in 2d
> games, or just with plain video.

Ouch.

> Bad luck then, right? The replacement was DOA.

RIP.
> The replacement replacement worked fine for a month, and then the second
> port on the front panel USB3 stopped working right (USB2 only was
> reliable). I moved the header over to the secondary and now I have two
> working front panel USB3 ports. So bad header, not the case cable. I
> suspected as much, but put up with the bad port for a while afraid to
> touch the mainboard with as much as a feather.
>
> When their shit failed, ASUS refused to cross ship anything. For the
> first replacement I just bought a new mainboard, then returned that one
> to Amazon when it was DOA.
>
> So: 1) Serious problem, 2) Dead as a doornail, 3) USB3 glitches. This is
> clearly a quality control problem.

Ugh. I'll cross my fingers with this board nothing else crops up. Seems
to be working fine *now* other than the driver updater not installing. Oh wait,
it just finished... but now it wants me to log into my ASUS account?!?

Ugh. Razer all over again. I hope I don't end up like I did with them, not
able to change my settings because I couldn't create an account and
and them not responding to emails, which was the only way to contact
them. Looks like they want my birth day, month and year! What the hell!
Screw them, I'm giving them a fake one.

>
> This was supplemented by dead stupid, evasive customer service that
> couldn't tell me that there was something seriously wrong with the
> mainboard, or, more likely, didn't want to. They actually tried to
> convince me that I should be getting x8 on the video card on the first
> board, due to the presence of an NVMe drive, and like a chump I believed
> them. It was a sign of PCI-E lane degradation, and I lost data for their
> incompetence (and to some degree mine, I was skeptical).
>
> I can't tell you how many times I had to mount the heat sink. It was
> nuts.

Oh yeah heat sink/fan, well the replacement I got that included the back
plate for my mb was really easy to install, much easier than the intel
one, though a bit more complicated, I'd buy it again.

> It did come with a really pretty I/O backplate though. High quality. :^P

Lol, I don't care about any of that. Though I do have a case with a plastic
viewing panel, mainly because that was the cheapest that had features
and size I wanted. Good thing it's extra wide because that heatsink/fan
tower only leaves about an inch and a half clearance. It's a lot easier to
deal with and prettier being black than my old discolored beige case with
miss-matching front face plates, so I guess I care a little when it doesn't
cost me anything. Technically I could've kept the old case, but I was tired
of getting cut every time I opened it, and wanted one that wasn't made of
razor blades.

You ought to see my car a 2010 Scion, it's starting to look more discolored
and rusty than that old case. I'd buy a new one, but it still works, and cars
(and houses) are heavily inflated right now.

- Justisaur

Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!

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From: rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca (Ross Ridge)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2023 01:23:57 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Ross Ridge - Wed, 22 Mar 2023 01:23 UTC

Justisaur <justisaur@gmail.com> wrote:
>As I was poking around I noticed that in the new mb bios it showed that the
>drive was in raid mode [...]

If on your previous computer you had the SATA interface set to RAID
instead AHCI then this is likely where your problem comes from.
Motherboard RAID is notorius for not being compatible with other
motherboards unless they happen to using compatible RAID firmware
(eg. from the same generation of Intel or AMD chipsets.) Getting an
MSI or other manufacturer's motherboard wouldn't have made a difference.

>Yes, I probably should've bought an M.2 drive and installed windows anew,
>but the thought of the number of hours deactivating and reactivating my
>windows license, or worse having to buy an new copy of windows, then
>reinstalling everything was just too daunting.

This is what I did when I built my new PC recently. I'm not that worried
about reinstalling everything though. Beyond games, I don't have a lot
of stuff installed on my PC, and games are relatively easy to move over.
Older games I can just copy over, extracting their registry keys from
the old system and putting them in the new system. The newer games
are all on Steam, the Epic Game Store or some other service they can
all be easily be redownloaded.

In fact, Steam lets you just copy over the entire Steam install directory
including games, which is something I've done in the past, but this time
I'm just going to install them from scratch. The Steam client has a
brand new feature that lets you download games from other computers on
your network if they're also running Steam and have the game installed,
so it's pretty fast.

Oh, and you can't actually manually deactivate Windows. Windows should
have detected that your hardware changed once you managed to successfuly
boot it on your new PC and automatically deactivated itself. You should
go into the settings (Update & Security -> Activation on Windows 10)
and check your activation status. If it's not activated you'll need to
enter your product key to reactivate it, or sign in with your Microsoft
account if you previously linked your key with your account.

--
l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo] rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca:11068/
db //

Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!

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 by: Ant - Wed, 22 Mar 2023 02:17 UTC

No, hardest game is REAL LIFE! :(

Justisaur <justisaur@gmail.com> wrote:
> So more of a rant. I started putting together and swapping out the parts
> with the new cpu/mb/ram I bought. I'm thinking a lot of my woes are once
> again up to the ASUS mb and wonder if I'd gone with the pricier MSI I'd have
> been fine.

> It wouldn't recognize my boot drive as bootable and wouldn't even try. after a
> lot of looking things up I found that CSM is the new Legacy mode, which as
> I prefer not to use UEFI I'm still using, so I turned that on, no difference.

> I was able to get it to recognize it when I put it on my usb sata adaptor (that
> thing's been worth it's weight in gold since I bought it more than 10 years
> ago.)

> It booted, but extremely slowly, around 20 minutes, and then froze when I
> tried to log in. I tried to get it to go to safe mode, what a pain that was
> (that's MS's fault.) I eventually had to put my old mb/cpu/mem on a box and
> hook it up to the power supply and boot sata on that, and choose to have it
> reboot to safe mode, and swap the ps & it back, and it booted up in safe
> mode, still very slow, then it said to not remove the USB or data loss could
> occur. I couldn't find anything to fix, and sometimes it will just work after
> booting to safe mode, so I pulled it and plugged it back into sata, and
> nothing again, no bootable devices.

> It was pissing me off it'd recognize it as bootable on USB but not off SATA
> too as that proved it was capable.

> I went down the wrong rabbit hole as what I could find online said I needed
> to convert from MBR to GPT (UEFI) to get it to boot and started fiddling with
> that, I couldn't find anything that would do it non-destructively, which would
> mean there wasn't any point, as I'd be left installing windows from scratch
> and lose my data.

> I had thought maybe a bios update might help and went through a bunch of
> back and forth with the drive contiguously while fiddling with MBR/Raid as it
> wouldn't pick up my wifi adaptor in safe mode with networking, and trying to
> figure out how to get it to update was difficult. Eventually I found that the
> bios has a tool in it to pick up the file off the drive, and updated it. When it
> finished It said something about a v... something related to UEFI needing to
> be updated. (I can't get into BIOS right now, and finding any complete info
> on bios' is woefully inadequate on support/internet.) I figured that might be
> related to booting as well, so turned that off, but no.

> As I was poking around I noticed that in the new mb bios it showed that the
> drive was in raid mode, and found something to convert from raid to ACHI
> which is supposed to be more compatible. I found some instructions to do
> that, and started following them, but after the first step it said to go in the
> bios and change it from raid to ACHI but there was no way to do that on
> either bios. After I tried booting from it again it gave me an error that
> /Boot/BCD was missing or corrupt. But at least it was trying to boot from
> the drive connected to sata on the new mb. However it also gave that error
> trying to boot from usb or the old mb, so my install was toast.

> I created a recovery USB from my son's computer also on windows 10 21H2.
> The repair failed and everything else appeared to be destructive, and it
> appeared the recovery USB wouldn't do an in-place install/upgrade. I found
> some info on running bootrec, and tried that but it didn't work either.
> I at least could access the drive and see all the data was there still, but the
> c:\boot folder was missing. Somehow the USBs boot got corrupted while I
> did that, so I figured it was time to get the win10 iso and put that on the usb.
> After I did that I tried the repair again and this time it rebooted to the SSD,
> but now it gave me a blue screen sad face with inaccessible boot device.
> After a couple reboots trying to get into safe mode it gave me an orange
> screen with red vertical stripes.

> I played around with bcdrec and repairs again and nothing. At last I was
> able to get it into safe mode though. I saw it popping up saying not to
> remove the USB drive or it could corrupt data for windows portable. I
> thought that sounded wrong, and it shouldn't be portable, well apparently
> just booting up from a usb adaptor makes it go into that permanently, but
> there's a reg key to turn it off, so I did, rebooted and it started up fully into
> windows with the wifi working!

> It is stuck still after at least 30 minutes trying install the asus armory crate
> (updater.) The CPU is sitting around 1% and is at around 23 C, which is
> considerably better than it was before.

> Yes, I probably should've bought an M.2 drive and installed windows anew,
> but the thought of the number of hours deactivating and reactivating my
> windows license, or worse having to buy an new copy of windows, then
> reinstalling everything was just too daunting.

> - Justisaur

--
"To fear the LORD is to hate evil; I hate pride and arrogance, evil behavior and perverse speech." --Proverbs 8:13. Bad Tuesday due to >2" rain, leaks, slept <5 hrs., poopy (5X) & peey body, colony, humans, etc. again. No COVID-19 shot #6. Laid off from .com employer & started @ SYMC >22 yrs. ago. :/
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org.
/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o o| |
\ _ /
( )

Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!

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From: rsquires...@MOOflashMOO.net (rms)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2023 23:52:35 -0600
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 by: rms - Wed, 22 Mar 2023 05:52 UTC

>to be working fine *now* other than the driver updater not installing. Oh
>wait,
>it just finished... but now it wants me to log into my ASUS account?!?

It's been awhile since I had an asus board, but if you installed some
all-in-one package, I suggest uninstalling it, and getting the individual
drivers from their website. Especially if it includes rgb or overclocking
control, just get rid of that crap.

rms

Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!

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Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2023 07:10:20 -0400
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 by: DMP - Wed, 22 Mar 2023 11:10 UTC

On 3/21/2023 5:51 PM, Justisaur wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 21, 2023 at 1:27:19 PM UTC-7, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>> On 3/21/2023 11:54 AM, Justisaur wrote:
>> <large, LARGE, snip for space>
>>>
>>> Yes, I probably should've bought an M.2 drive and installed windows anew,
>>> but the thought of the number of hours deactivating and reactivating my
>>> windows license, or worse having to buy an new copy of windows, then
>>> reinstalling everything was just too daunting.
>>>
>> Too daunting compared to what you just went thru? What's the non-Jewish
>> version of "Oy vey!"?
>
> Considering last time I had to start from scratch it was at least a week.
> I'm struggling a bit with drivers, as their updater is still stuck installing,
> and all of what I'm finding on fixes for that only applies to their notebooks.
>
> - Justisaur

I did the upgrade thing and had troubles too. I went with MSI though.
Half the issue was stuff that wasn't in the manual. I went from an old
board with legacy BIOS to UEFI, so that was new to me. I also couldn't
tell from the documentation if I needed the TPM module(for Win !!) or it
was onboard. To make sure I called and tech support told me I needed the
module. I bought and installed the module. Turned out, the PC wouldn't
start. Followed up with them only to learn the first guy was wrong. The
only good thing about this is that MSI has a number to call and there
was never much of a wait time.

The fun started when I tried to get Windows to activate...no way no how
was the OS going to cooperate. I had to call explained I was upgrading
board, CPU and memory and tossed the old parts so I could upgrade to
Windows 11. The tech guy was cooperative, but couldn't get Windows
activated. He talked to the next level guy who wouldn't activate Windows
unless I proved I just bought the parts. I had to upload my invoice for
the motherboard to Microsoft and then was able to get Windows activated.

Since then the hardware has been flawless and I do like the MSI
hardware. Dealing with Microsoft was unpleasant altho' the first guy was
decent and did try to help

Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!

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From: zagha...@hotmail.com (Zaghadka)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2023 07:53:18 -0500
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 by: Zaghadka - Wed, 22 Mar 2023 12:53 UTC

On Tue, 21 Mar 2023 15:14:48 -0700 (PDT), in
comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action, Justisaur wrote:

[snip]

>Though I do have a case with a plastic
>viewing panel, mainly because that was the cheapest that had features
>and size I wanted. Good thing it's extra wide because that heatsink/fan
>tower only leaves about an inch and a half clearance. It's a lot easier to
>deal with and prettier being black than my old discolored beige case with
>miss-matching front face plates, so I guess I care a little when it doesn't
>cost me anything. Technically I could've kept the old case, but I was tired
>of getting cut every time I opened it, and wanted one that wasn't made of
>razor blades.

The 30xx and 40xx series cards *require* a newer case thanks to them
being over a foot long. It took me a while to find a 3060 that had a
reasonable length. The 3060 Ti was basically equivalent for GTX functions
and a far sight smaller than my 10.5 inch 1080 GTX that barely fit. The
sacrifice was loudness at max load.

So good move on the new case. You will thank yourself later.

As for heat sink tales, I have a i9 9900K sitting in there that basically
required an enormous Noctua DH-15 cooler, so mounting the heatsink was
non-trivial (water cooling scared me, as I didn't understand the case fan
load, but was a better way to go). In retrospect, I should have gone with
an i7. But due to mobo spacing, heat sink removal is necessary to get at
the NVMe drive and the RAM. Even the graphics card release lever requires
a screwdriver to reach, and forget getting all the mobo mounting screws
in. You'd have to mount the sink with the mobo in the case, which is
possible due to really good Noctua design, but still very difficult. The
entire ATX mobo form factor is becoming inadequate with the huge
components these days.

I want much larger mainboards and lots of space to work with should I do
another build. The newer cases accomodate -- no more drive cages -- but
ATX mobos still do not. It is very long in the tooth.

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!

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 by: Zaghadka - Wed, 22 Mar 2023 12:55 UTC

On Tue, 21 Mar 2023 23:52:35 -0600, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action, rms
wrote:

>>to be working fine *now* other than the driver updater not installing. Oh
>>wait,
>>it just finished... but now it wants me to log into my ASUS account?!?
>
> It's been awhile since I had an asus board, but if you installed some
>all-in-one package, I suggest uninstalling it, and getting the individual
>drivers from their website. Especially if it includes rgb or overclocking
>control, just get rid of that crap.
>
Yeah. I turned off Q-Install (or whatever that junkware is called now).
There was a well hidden UEFI BIOS setting, otherwise the mainboard would
directly install stuff to my root directories on every boot. Took me
forever to figure out how to get it off of my machine.

At least mine didn't require an account!

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!

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Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
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 by: Zaghadka - Wed, 22 Mar 2023 13:04 UTC

On Wed, 22 Mar 2023 02:17:58 +0000, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action, Ant
wrote:

>No, hardest game is REAL LIFE! :(
>
Computer building is REAL LIFE and becoming not a very pleasant
experience in the much vaunted, if poorly updated, game.

I mean how f-ing old is ATX at this point, 1995? At least we now have
modular power supplies as a stopgap, but those are also still ATX form
factor too.

Most of the physical build pain these days, for me, comes from a nearly
three decade old form factor specification that was never intended to
accomodate things like 4 slot graphics cards, or rather, *needs* 4 slot
graphics cards because, fuuu, it's from 1995.

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!

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Subject: Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!
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 by: Anssi Saari - Wed, 22 Mar 2023 12:31 UTC

Justisaur <justisaur@gmail.com> writes:

> So more of a rant. I started putting together and swapping out the parts
> with the new cpu/mb/ram I bought. I'm thinking a lot of my woes are once
> again up to the ASUS mb and wonder if I'd gone with the pricier MSI I'd have
> been fine.

I've had good luck with recent Asrock and MSI boards but I have a sample
size of one of each in recent years. The MSI was a from scratch install
too so no history, just some data from my previous "stuff" file server.

The current Asrock has an odd problem, basically mouse and keyboard are
unusable in Memtest86 Pro. Good thing there's a batch mode, I can just
tell it what tests to run and for how many times and it'll do that and
save the results and shut down. Also in the Grub bootloader keyboard is
almost unusable if CSM is off, key presses are ignored or duplicated or
keys get stuck. Loads of fun trying to navigate a menu.

Curiously, Asrock actually says to not turn CSM off. No biggie, I can
have UEFI boot whether it's off or on.

My previous motherboard was actually from Asus, a Maximus VII
Hero Z97. Bought used with a Haswell-refresh CPU to replace my broken
Ivy Bridge motherboard. It worked great, even considering the seller had
just wrapped the thing in bubble wrap, no anti-static bag...

Sorry I can't really help, I have no idea what caused your problems.

> I went down the wrong rabbit hole as what I could find online said I needed
> to convert from MBR to GPT (UEFI) to get it to boot and started fiddling with
> that, I couldn't find anything that would do it non-destructively, which would
> mean there wasn't any point, as I'd be left installing windows from scratch
> and lose my data.

I definitely wanted to do this, going to GPT was just a little
complicated with three OSes installed. Surprisingly it went without a
hitch but it turned out my Windows 10 installation was already broken
before the conversion and unsalvageable. Specific problem was,
uninstalling any device driver would just hang and plugging an old
Windows 10 installation to different hardware wants to uninstall a whole
bunch of drivers.

Let alone, you can imagine what happens the first time Windows decides
it'll remove a driver at next reboot in that situation. I guess someone
with more knowledge of Windows might be able to fix that but I sure
couldn't.

> Yes, I probably should've bought an M.2 drive and installed windows anew,
> but the thought of the number of hours deactivating and reactivating my
> windows license, or worse having to buy an new copy of windows, then
> reinstalling everything was just too daunting.

True but I feel once a decade is doable. Then again, my Windows desktop
is pretty much for gaming only so there isn't that much to "install
everything". It's Firefox, Steam, Epic, GoG Galaxy. Some little bits and
bobs, mouse, GPU drivers, other stuff I use for comfort and remote
access. Well, those do add up but don't need to be installed all at
once. My games were installed on a separate drive and those storefronts
can be told outright or otherwise convinced where the games are and that
they don't need reinstalling.

My Windows 10 that broke actually started out as a Windows 7
system. Which may have even been upgraded from XP but I'm not sure,
can't remember that far back.

Reactivation in almost completely new hardware was accepted without
complaint. Odd, that, but it's Microsoft.

Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!

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From: markpnel...@sbcglobal.net (Mark P. Nelson)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2023 16:23:28 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Mark P. Nelson - Wed, 22 Mar 2023 16:23 UTC

Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote in news:tvd3v5$8mqr$1@dont-
email.me:

> Too daunting compared to what you just went thru? What's the non-Jewish
> version of "Oy vey!"?

Ay, Caramba!

--
Clotho, Lachesis, Atropos -- the only sysadmins that matter

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From: zagha...@hotmail.com (Zaghadka)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2023 12:23:01 -0500
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 by: Zaghadka - Wed, 22 Mar 2023 17:23 UTC

On Wed, 22 Mar 2023 16:23:28 -0000 (UTC), in
comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action, Mark P. Nelson wrote:

>Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote in news:tvd3v5$8mqr$1@dont-
>email.me:
>
>> Too daunting compared to what you just went thru? What's the non-Jewish
>> version of "Oy vey!"?
>
>Ay, Caramba!

"Oof da!"

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!

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From: rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca (Ross Ridge)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2023 19:36:55 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Ross Ridge - Wed, 22 Mar 2023 19:36 UTC

Justisaur <justisaur@gmail.com> wrote:
>Lol, I don't care about any of that. Though I do have a case with a plastic
>viewing panel, mainly because that was the cheapest that had features
>and size I wanted.

Plastic? Usually transparent side panels are made from tempered glass.
In my case I paid extra for a case with a solid panel. I don't want
to see inside my case, there's no RGB LED crap in there, and I'd be
consantly afraid I'd break the glass.

>It's a lot easier to deal with and prettier being black than my old
>discolored beige case with miss-matching front face plates, so I guess
>I care a little when it doesn't cost me anything.

I never understood why people liked beige cases, the shades of beige never
matched up even when new. My previous PC is in a nice piano black case,
my new one is more of matte black.

Though when I was putting my new PC together I kinda wished I got a
white case. Even with good lighting where I was working everything being
black on black made things hard to see. The inside of the case is black,
the motherboard is an almost black shade of grey and all of the cables are
black. If it had only cost $10 more I probably would've gotten a white
case just to have something different, but while I putting everything
together I was thinking it would've been worth paying a fair bit more.

>Technically I could've kept the old case, but I was tired
>of getting cut every time I opened it, and wanted one that wasn't made of
>razor blades.

Yah, blood sacrifices being no longer necessary are a great thing about
modern case design.

--
l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo] rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca:11068/
db //

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Subject: Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!
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 by: Justisaur - Wed, 22 Mar 2023 20:06 UTC

On Tuesday, March 21, 2023 at 6:23:59 PM UTC-7, Ross Ridge wrote:
> Justisaur <just...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >As I was poking around I noticed that in the new mb bios it showed that the
> >drive was in raid mode [...]
>
> If on your previous computer you had the SATA interface set to RAID
> instead AHCI then this is likely where your problem comes from.
> Motherboard RAID is notorius for not being compatible with other
> motherboards unless they happen to using compatible RAID firmware
> (eg. from the same generation of Intel or AMD chipsets.) Getting an
> MSI or other manufacturer's motherboard wouldn't have made a difference.

So I was looking through the bios again, and what I had turned off (which
there was no troubleshooting steps I found about on the internet for not
recognizing boot devices, but the blurb after the bios was flashed about it
made me suspicious) was VMD. I'd never heard of it before, and it's related
to intel Optane memory which apparently was a flop. And it reads all the
disks as raid disks, which is why my disks were showing up raid, and had
nothing to do with the settings to turn it off as the drives were never set up
raid.

All my drives are now not showing up raid after turning it off, even though
I didn't do anything to the other two that weren't boot devices. So I probably
got my timeline a bit mixed up.

Now why the hell that would be turned on by default including for Sata devices
and not just M.2 (which is apparently what Optane is, and shouldn't be Sata)
and buried deep in the advanced, advanced, menus under "SA" is beyond me.

> Oh, and you can't actually manually deactivate Windows. Windows should
> have detected that your hardware changed once you managed to successfuly
> boot it on your new PC and automatically deactivated itself. You should
> go into the settings (Update & Security -> Activation on Windows 10)
> and check your activation status. If it's not activated you'll need to
> enter your product key to reactivate it, or sign in with your Microsoft
> account if you previously linked your key with your account.

It just showed up with "activate windows" so I guess it did deactivate, I don't
really care, but it is a bit annoying having the watermark over the bottom
right of the screen, so I'll go about trying to get it reactivated.

- Justisaur

Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!

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From: rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca (Ross Ridge)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!
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 by: Ross Ridge - Wed, 22 Mar 2023 20:35 UTC

Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I want much larger mainboards and lots of space to work with should I do
>another build. The newer cases accomodate -- no more drive cages -- but
>ATX mobos still do not. It is very long in the tooth.

If anything, a new motherboard form factor that replaces ATX would
likely only be smaller. For most people, you can get everything you
want in a Micro-ATX motherboard, the only thing you give up are less
PCI-Express slots, but its rare for anyone to have anything ther than
graphics card installed.

There is a bigger form factor than ATX, Extented-ATX, but E-ATX
motherboards are mostly insane $1000+ boards that use their size in
part to justify their ridiculous prices. They don't move their main
PCI-Express or DRAM slots any farther from the CPU because they want
them as close as possible to the CPU to make layout easier. For the
DRAM slots in particular, this very likely a necessitiy, and they can't
be moved any farther from the CPU.

There have been been a couple of recent innovations though that may
help with your next PC build. One is modular power supplies with the
connectors on the side rather than the back. This makes it a lot easier
to attach power cables to the power supply after its been installed in
the case, but doesn't work with every case. The other is motherboards
that have all the connectors on the back. This requires a case designed
for this, and I'm not sure if it catch on, but it does potentially make
cable management a lot easier.

None of that would help with a big giant heat sink blocking everything,
but you can usally get by with a more normal sized tower cooler, even on
on top-end CPUs. If not there's always AIO (all-in-one) water coolers,
they just have a small "puck" that sits on top of the CPU.

--
l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo] rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca:11068/
db //

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Subject: Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!
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 by: Justisaur - Wed, 22 Mar 2023 20:35 UTC

On Wednesday, March 22, 2023 at 5:55:25 AM UTC-7, Zaghadka wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Mar 2023 23:52:35 -0600, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action, rms
> wrote:
> >>to be working fine *now* other than the driver updater not installing. Oh
> >>wait,
> >>it just finished... but now it wants me to log into my ASUS account?!?
> >
> > It's been awhile since I had an asus board, but if you installed some
> >all-in-one package, I suggest uninstalling it, and getting the individual
> >drivers from their website. Especially if it includes rgb or overclocking
> >control, just get rid of that crap.
> >
> Yeah. I turned off Q-Install (or whatever that junkware is called now).
> There was a well hidden UEFI BIOS setting, otherwise the mainboard would
> directly install stuff to my root directories on every boot. Took me
> forever to figure out how to get it off of my machine.
>
> At least mine didn't require an account!

I installed all the things available on the website, but there was still something
(just the name of the board, so I'm not sure what it does?) It looks like the
available packages are older from the website than through "Armour Crate"

I got used to the convenience of the MSI software letting me know when
bios and other updates were available so thought the ASUS one would be
similar, but it's hung a lot, it looks like it's finally fully installed and updated
itself. So off to install those newer packages.

- Justisaur

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Subject: Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!
From: justis...@gmail.com (Justisaur)
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 by: Justisaur - Wed, 22 Mar 2023 20:53 UTC

On Wednesday, March 22, 2023 at 1:35:03 PM UTC-7, Ross Ridge wrote:
> Zaghadka <zagh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >I want much larger mainboards and lots of space to work with should I do
> >another build. The newer cases accomodate -- no more drive cages -- but
> >ATX mobos still do not. It is very long in the tooth.
> If anything, a new motherboard form factor that replaces ATX would
> likely only be smaller. For most people, you can get everything you
> want in a Micro-ATX motherboard, the only thing you give up are less
> PCI-Express slots, but its rare for anyone to have anything ther than
> graphics card installed.

I didn't even realize it until I was replacing it, but the MSI MB I had was
a micro, it was very much smaller than the ATX. I remember when I was
installing it years ago I was wondering where all the slots were, but ended
up just using USB versions of whatever I needed. I have a usb wifi device
that looks like it's just an antenna, the silicon that does the work is
built into it. I have a USB DVD drive around somewhere, but I can't
remember the last time I used it, other than that it worked better than
all the previous internal cd/dvd drives I'd had. I would've liked more
USB ports on the back, I seem to use a lot, and have had nothing but
trouble with USB hubs. I've got just barely enough with this board at
least. I do have 3 on the front, but I could never get one of them to work..

It looks like I've got a couple spare PCI slots and a couple PCI-E ones
but I don't know what I'd put in there.

>
> There is a bigger form factor than ATX, Extented-ATX, but E-ATX
> motherboards are mostly insane $1000+ boards that use their size in
> part to justify their ridiculous prices. They don't move their main
> PCI-Express or DRAM slots any farther from the CPU because they want
> them as close as possible to the CPU to make layout easier. For the
> DRAM slots in particular, this very likely a necessitiy, and they can't
> be moved any farther from the CPU.

The micro actually felt far more stable, less flex when installing it than
the new one. The case was still big, and it handled my new video card,
which is smaller than my last one too, it only uses the one PCI slot,
vs the old one which used two.

> There have been been a couple of recent innovations though that may
> help with your next PC build. One is modular power supplies with the
> connectors on the side rather than the back. This makes it a lot easier
> to attach power cables to the power supply after its been installed in
> the case, but doesn't work with every case. The other is motherboards
> that have all the connectors on the back. This requires a case designed
> for this, and I'm not sure if it catch on, but it does potentially make
> cable management a lot easier.

That reminds me to complain about the backplate. Still a badly fitting
aluminum can strength pos that takes a good deal of fiddling to get
in there. Admittedly the last few were even more trouble, but it's
basically the same. Of course I tend to go cheap with MB, so maybe
more expensive ones have better backplates?
>
> None of that would help with a big giant heat sink blocking everything,
> but you can usally get by with a more normal sized tower cooler, even on
> on top-end CPUs. If not there's always AIO (all-in-one) water coolers,
> they just have a small "puck" that sits on top of the CPU.

A couple of the videos I watched when I was investigating coolers, the
dual towers outperformed the AIO water coolers at a considerably lower
price.

- Justisaur

Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!

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Subject: Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!
From: justis...@gmail.com (Justisaur)
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 by: Justisaur - Wed, 22 Mar 2023 21:01 UTC

On Tuesday, March 21, 2023 at 7:18:04 PM UTC-7, Ant wrote:
> No, hardest game is REAL LIFE! :(

You got me there...

But it's just a sim, there's no win condition. Damn player likes to
throw diseases and disasters and unbalanced starting conditions.
;)

- Justisaur

Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!

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From: dtra...@sonic.net (Dimensional Traveler)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2023 14:08:04 -0700
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 by: Dimensional Traveler - Wed, 22 Mar 2023 21:08 UTC

On 3/22/2023 10:23 AM, Zaghadka wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Mar 2023 16:23:28 -0000 (UTC), in
> comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action, Mark P. Nelson wrote:
>
>> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote in news:tvd3v5$8mqr$1@dont-
>> email.me:
>>
>>> Too daunting compared to what you just went thru? What's the non-Jewish
>>> version of "Oy vey!"?
>>
>> Ay, Caramba!
>
> "Oof da!"
>
"Oy Caramba da!"

Wait, that doesn't sound right....

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!

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From: rri...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca (Ross Ridge)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action
Subject: Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2023 21:21:43 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Ross Ridge - Wed, 22 Mar 2023 21:21 UTC

Justisaur <justisaur@gmail.com> wrote:
>So I was looking through the bios again, and what I had turned off (which
>there was no troubleshooting steps I found about on the internet for not
>recognizing boot devices, but the blurb after the bios was flashed about it
>made me suspicious) was VMD. I'd never heard of it before, and it's related
>to intel Optane memory which apparently was a flop. And it reads all the
>disks as raid disks, which is why my disks were showing up raid, and had
>nothing to do with the settings to turn it off as the drives were never set up
>raid.

Intel's VMD covers a lot of things and in this case it does't have
anything to do with Optane memory. What it's used for in consumer
deskop motherboards is a feature called Virtual RAID on the CPU (VROC).
This is the new way doing motherboard RAID, the old way could be called
"Fake RAID in Software" by comparision.

With the old way, software in the BIOS implemented RAID during the boot
process, and then when Windows booted up it would use a special RAID
driver to access the disks. When installing Windows you'd have provide an
"F6 disk", originally on a floppy disk, but these days more likely on a
USB drive, so Windows could access the RAID disks and install itself.
(It was called an F6 disk because you needed to press F6 at certain
point in the installion for Windows to prompt you to read the disk.)

With the new way, the CPU is somehow pretending to be a RAID hardware
controller. This doesn't really change much, it still requires that
you provide an F6 disk for the VMD/VROC driver for Windows to install.
Having VMD enabled and not having the F6 disk is probably why you couldn't
install Windows at first. Using the USB-to-SATA adapter solved this
problem because VROC only works with NVMe and SATA drives connected
directly to the motherboard.

But yes, having VMD enabled by default was a poor choice by Asus.
Most people aren't going to want to use RAID, whether they're using NVMe
or SATA drives.

(I was just looking the F6 disk files included with Intel's RAID drivers,
and despite being contained in a directory named "f6vmdflpy-x64" they're
about 3.5MB in size so wouldn't actually fit on a floppy disk.)

>It just showed up with "activate windows" so I guess it did deactivate, I don't
>really care, but it is a bit annoying having the watermark over the bottom
>right of the screen, so I'll go about trying to get it reactivated.

Hopefully you'll have an easier time than DMP did. If you have a retail
product key it should go easier, as you're allowed to move your licence
from PC to PC as much as you wish. OEM licences are for a specific PC,
so you may have to convince Microsoft that its still the same PC, if
only in a Ship of Theseus sense.

Supposedly linking your product key to a Microsoft account before you
upgrade also can make the process more smooth, but this sounds like
something Microsoft would say just to get more people to use Microsoft
accounts on Windows.

--
l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo] rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca:11068/
db //

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Subject: Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!
From: justis...@gmail.com (Justisaur)
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 by: Justisaur - Wed, 22 Mar 2023 23:01 UTC

On Wednesday, March 22, 2023 at 2:21:45 PM UTC-7, Ross Ridge wrote:
> Justisaur <just...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >It just showed up with "activate windows" so I guess it did deactivate, I don't
> >really care, but it is a bit annoying having the watermark over the bottom
> >right of the screen, so I'll go about trying to get it reactivated.
> Hopefully you'll have an easier time than DMP did. If you have a retail
> product key it should go easier, as you're allowed to move your licence
> from PC to PC as much as you wish. OEM licences are for a specific PC,
> so you may have to convince Microsoft that its still the same PC, if
> only in a Ship of Theseus sense.
>
> Supposedly linking your product key to a Microsoft account before you
> upgrade also can make the process more smooth, but this sounds like
> something Microsoft would say just to get more people to use Microsoft
> accounts on Windows.

Easier than I thought. I have Windows 8 Pro I bought through a home
program at a previous employer. I could've sworn I had a new key
when I upgraded to 10, I looked all over for it, couldn't find it, and
finally tried my Win8 pro key, which it just took and activated without
any hassle.

Maybe that was some previous edition, I still have the CDs
and keys for 95, 98, XP as well as a few old versions of office in the same
drawer. I got rid of my 3.1 floppies when I moved a couple years ago,
I think there were floppies missing anyway and there were something
like 23 of them which takes up a lot of space.

I should probably look into getting a license for my son, he's had
the 'Activate Windows' ever since I put together his computer, but
it always seems to be exorbitantly expensive unless you get it OEM
which as you mention are only good for that manufactured PC.
It looks like MS isn't selling it online anymore, but it was $199
for pro 2 months ago. I just checked and you can get keys for
like $4?!? I question the validity/legality though.

- Justisaur

Re: Hardest game ever - upgrading hardware!

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 by: Ant - Thu, 23 Mar 2023 00:13 UTC

Justisaur <justisaur@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 21, 2023 at 7:18:04???PM UTC-7, Ant wrote:
> > No, hardest game is REAL LIFE! :(

> You got me there...

> But it's just a sim, there's no win condition. Damn player likes to
> throw diseases and disasters and unbalanced starting conditions.
> ;)

Also, it's SO grindy!
--
"God is our refuge and strength, an ever-present help in trouble. Therefore we will not fear, though the earth give way and the mountains fall into the heart of the sea." --Psalm 46:1-2. :) BDs 2 Thule, Andrew Lloyd Webber, & William Shatner. Denied COVID-19 shots #6 4 da colony.
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org.
/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
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