> But on the software side? Look, the obscenely large (for 1999)
> hard-drive still has 60GB free, and I gotta use it all SOMEHOW.

Maybe the 90's FMV titles, like Black Dahlia etc?

rms

On Tue, 28 Mar 2023 14:38:16 +0300, Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> wrote:

>I can't think of much. The big games from late 90s for me are probably
>SS2 and Deus Ex.

I'm trying to avoid the 'big name' games largely because, due to their
status, most of them have been updated to run smoothly on modern
hardware; thus, there's no need to put them on the dedicated Win9x PC.

>I remember Red Alert mostly because I installed Windows 95 when I hit
>the infamous Red Alert's DOS version installer bug. I guess you've
>covered RTS games and moving them into Windows hardly made a difference
>from playing them in DOS.

I was never a fan of the Red Alert games; I always preferred the main
series. "Command & Conquer 2" was one of the first games installed on
the win98 computer. I loved its map art!

>Battlezone from 1998 comes to mind as a slightly less known game, a kind
>of RTS/FPS hybrid. It did use 3D acceleration for graphics too as I
>recall, I remember some pretty smoke effects.

Ooh, that's a good one. I need to dig out the CD for that game.

>Heavy Gear II? It even had a short mission where you were in free fall
>with your gear. That was a somewhat unusual bit in an otherwise fairly
>dull FPS.

That's another good suggestion; alas, one I had already thought of. I
had to decide between "Heavy Gear" and "Heavy Gear II"; eventually I
decided on the former, simply because it runs better on the hardware.
While HG2 was /mechanically/ a better game (better visuals, better
controls), and it had some memorable missions (the aforementioned
space missions) its gameplay wasn't as exciting, largely because it
nerfed the enemies. In the HG universe, the 'gears' (the giant robots)
fit realistically between infanty and proper armored units like tanks,
and the first game respected this. But in the second game, gears
became overpowered and tanks extremely squishy. This not only removed
a lot of the challenge, but much of the game's versimilitude.

Side note: another classic Activision game of the era is "Interstate
76", but I couldn't get that game to run; it crashed whenever I
started a mission. Still, I did get to see the awesome intro.

>What else, NOLF maybe? I remember one newish feature there was that it
>showed stats of where you had hit your enemies as in head/torso/limb
>shots. It lead to me trying for headshots in System Shock 2 even though
>it was completely pointless there. I doubt it was the first game to do
>that though. Well, the 60s secret agent vibe wasn't that common at the
>time as I recall. But you probably have NOLF there already?

NOLF is /very/ tempting but, having been released in 2002, I think it
would be a poor fit for the hardware. The game would probably run but
- with only a 300MHz CPU and a Voodoo 3, I'd likely have to compromise
on visual quality and, let's face it, 3D FPS games of that era were no
lookers to begin with.

Anyway, while I loved the setting the gameplay always left me cold (to
get maximum enjoyment, you'd have to slowly sneak through the level
and then freeze in one place for five minutes everytime an NPC started
talking to hear his humorous comments).

Still, I could try other Monolith games; "SHOGO" and "Blood II" are
the most obvious (since the share the same engine), but personally I
never found either of them that enjoyable. But perhaps "Rage of Mages"
or "Septera Core". So a good - if indirect - recommendation; thank you
;-)

Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> writes:

>>What else, NOLF maybe? I remember one newish feature there was that it
>>showed stats of where you had hit your enemies as in head/torso/limb
>>shots. It lead to me trying for headshots in System Shock 2 even though
>>it was completely pointless there. I doubt it was the first game to do
>>that though. Well, the 60s secret agent vibe wasn't that common at the
>>time as I recall. But you probably have NOLF there already?
>
> NOLF is /very/ tempting but, having been released in 2002, I think it
> would be a poor fit for the hardware. The game would probably run but
> - with only a 300MHz CPU and a Voodoo 3, I'd likely have to compromise
> on visual quality and, let's face it, 3D FPS games of that era were no
> lookers to begin with.

I sure don't remember exactly when NOLF came out but Wikipedia says the
Windows release was in late 2000 so it's in the window. NOLF2 was 2002.

> Anyway, while I loved the setting the gameplay always left me cold (to
> get maximum enjoyment, you'd have to slowly sneak through the level
> and then freeze in one place for five minutes everytime an NPC started
> talking to hear his humorous comments).

True. OTOH, it played decently as an FPS even if you didn't hear all the
comments or random chats. Although I remember one guard finding another
dead and calling me out to clean up the mess. That was pretty funny so
maybe I lost some of the enjoyment.

On Tue, 28 Mar 2023 08:58:49 -0600, "rms"
<rsquiresMOO@MOOflashMOO.net> wrote:

>> But on the software side? Look, the obscenely large (for 1999)
>> hard-drive still has 60GB free, and I gotta use it all SOMEHOW.
>
> Maybe the 90's FMV titles, like Black Dahlia etc?

Oooh, I hadn't heard of that one.
(checks games collection)
Or, apparently I did (since I have it, because OF COURSE I do!) but
I've no memory of it. But /exactly/ the sort of thing I want; Win9x,
acceptable quality, and relatively unknown (even to me! ;-)

Good tip, thanks!

On Wed, 29 Mar 2023 12:45:30 +0300, Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> wrote:
>Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> writes:

>>
>> NOLF is /very/ tempting but, having been released in 2002, I think it
>> would be a poor fit for the hardware. The game would probably run but
>> - with only a 300MHz CPU and a Voodoo 3, I'd likely have to compromise
>> on visual quality and, let's face it, 3D FPS games of that era were no
>> lookers to begin with.
>
>I sure don't remember exactly when NOLF came out but Wikipedia says the
>Windows release was in late 2000 so it's in the window. NOLF2 was 2002.

hmm, I have it listed as 2002, but looking at mobygames it's Nov 9
2000. I'll correct my records. ;-)

Still, even a game from 2000 pushes it on the hardware. A 300MHz
Pentium II wasn't really competitive by then, and - as much as I live
my Voodoo card - it was behind the curve even when it was released.
It's great for games released before it hit the market, but it
struggles with stuff afterwards.

And that's fine. Like I said, I have an XP box already for more
'modern' games (2000-2010) so I'm not complaining. I just don't see
them as optimal on the Win9x PC. Maybe I'll put NOLF, NOLF2 (and poor
old forgotten Contract JACK) on that XP computer. They're due a
re-visit.

>> Anyway, while I loved the setting the gameplay always left me cold (to
>> get maximum enjoyment, you'd have to slowly sneak through the level
>> and then freeze in one place for five minutes everytime an NPC started
>> talking to hear his humorous comments).
>
>True. OTOH, it played decently as an FPS even if you didn't hear all the
>comments or random chats. Although I remember one guard finding another
>dead and calling me out to clean up the mess. That was pretty funny so
>maybe I lost some of the enjoyment.

The gameplay itself was... moderately fun. It wasn't ground-breaking,
but it had enough novelty here and there to be entertaining. But it
also had a bunch of annoying forced-stealth sections (I recall at
least one mission that instantly failed if you were seen) and,
compared to the polish of modern FPS games, its 90s-era gameplay can
be really hard to enjoy. This was back when a game wasn't considered
'good' unless it had really huge levels, and took you 30 hours to
finish, so there was a lot of filler.

So as a shooter, it was just okay. It only transcended its peers when
you soaked in the setting, which required a lot of patient listening
to random dialogues, and endlessly searching for all the hidden notes
and clues, which dragged out the already langorous gameplay.

Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> writes:

> Still, even a game from 2000 pushes it on the hardware. A 300MHz
> Pentium II wasn't really competitive by then, and - as much as I live
> my Voodoo card - it was behind the curve even when it was released.
> It's great for games released before it hit the market, but it
> struggles with stuff afterwards.

Come to think of it, I probably had an 800 MHz AMD Duron at the time so
I can see the point. Probably with a whiny TNT2 Ultra.

> And that's fine. Like I said, I have an XP box already for more
> 'modern' games (2000-2010) so I'm not complaining. I just don't see
> them as optimal on the Win9x PC. Maybe I'll put NOLF, NOLF2 (and poor
> old forgotten Contract JACK) on that XP computer. They're due a
> re-visit.

Was Contract JACK any good? I never heard of it before just reading the
NOLF Wikipedia page. I didn't like NOLF2 that much either to be honest.

On Thu, 30 Mar 2023 15:17:56 +0300, Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> wrote:

>Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Still, even a game from 2000 pushes it on the hardware. A 300MHz
>> Pentium II wasn't really competitive by then, and - as much as I live
>> my Voodoo card - it was behind the curve even when it was released.
>> It's great for games released before it hit the market, but it
>> struggles with stuff afterwards.
>
>Come to think of it, I probably had an 800 MHz AMD Duron at the time so
>I can see the point. Probably with a whiny TNT2 Ultra.

Yeah, the Win98 PC struggles with Quake II at 800x600; it's definitely
hitting its limits with anything released post 1999. But, like I said,
I'm okay with that. Older games run fine, and I love seeing that 3DFX
logo flash on the screen when it switches to 3D mode. ;-)

>Was Contract JACK any good? I never heard of it before just reading the
>NOLF Wikipedia page. I didn't like NOLF2 that much either to be honest.

It gots a bad reputation and worse reviews, but as I recall it wasn't
that terrible a shooter. Its gameplay and maps were fairly average for
the time; about on par with other B-list games. But it lacked all the
character and humor of its predecessors; it was pretty much a generic
FPS game with a replacable hero fighting off uninteresting enemies.

As I've stated earlier, I never got much enjoyment from the gameplay
of the earlier NOLF games, and it was the uniqueness of the setting
and characters of those games that made them memorable. The actual
mechanics were average. "Contract JACK" takes that already mediocre
gameplay, strips away all the interesting bits, and shoves it into an
unexciting story.

If you don't care about the setting and just want to run around
shooting stuff, 2000s style, then "Contract JACK" is acceptable, I
suppose. But it's definitely a step down from the NOLF games.