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computers / comp.sys.mac.apps / Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol

SubjectAuthor
* Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocolWally J
+* Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocolCarlos E. R.
|+* Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocolAlan Browne
||+* Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocolWally J
|||`* Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocolCarlos E. R.
||| `- Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocolWally J
||`* Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocolJörg Lorenz
|| `* Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocolAlan Browne
||  `* Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocolJörg Lorenz
||   `* Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocolAlan Browne
||    +- Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocolWally J
||    +* Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocolDave Roya
||    |`* Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocolAlan Browne
||    | `- Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocolJörg Lorenz
||    `* Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocolJörg Lorenz
||     `* Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocolCarlos E.R.
||      `- Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocolWally J
|+- Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocolWally J
|`* Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocolJörg Lorenz
| `* Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocolCarlos E. R.
|  +* Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocolAlan Browne
|  |+- Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocolWally J
|  |`* Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocolCarlos E. R.
|  | +- Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocolAlan Browne
|  | `- Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocolWally J
|  +* Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocolJolly Roger
|  |+- Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocolWally J
|  |`* Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocolCarlos E. R.
|  | `- Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocolJolly Roger
|  `* Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocolBernd Froehlich
|   +* Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocolCarlos E. R.
|   |`- Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocolJolly Roger
|   `* Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocolWally J
|    `* Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocolDave Roya
|     +* Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocolCarlos E. R.
|     |`* Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocolDave Roya
|     | `* Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocolCarlos E. R.
|     |  `* Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocolDave Roya
|     |   `- Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocolJörg Lorenz
|     `* Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocolAlan Browne
|      +* Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocolLarry Wolff
|      |`* Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocolBradley
|      | `- Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocolCarlos E. R.
|      `- Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocolCarlos E. R.
`* Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocolJörg Lorenz
 `* Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocolCarlos E. R.
  +- Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocolWally J
  `- Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocolJörg Lorenz

Pages:12
Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol

<ul7c5c$37je5$1@dont-email.me>

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https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=1145&group=comp.sys.mac.apps#1145

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android comp.sys.mac.apps misc.phone.mobile.iphone
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From: dav...@dave123royal.com (Dave Roya)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,comp.sys.mac.apps,misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Subject: Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol
Followup-To: comp.mobile.android,comp.sys.mac.apps,misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2023 16:08:12 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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In-Reply-To: <ul76t3$2s2qi$1@paganini.bofh.team>
 by: Dave Roya - Mon, 11 Dec 2023 16:08 UTC

On 11 Dec 2023 10:38:27 -0400 Wally J wrote:

>I'm trying to understand the problem (as I don't have it in the states).
>
> *The main problem appears to be a carrier-imposed fee on 'sending MMS'*
> *The other problem appears to be iOS uses a primitive messaging system.*
> (Substituted "closed" if you have a visceral dislike to "primitive".)
>
>One part of the problem appears to be...
>1. Android users who are charged those fees can send MMS via RCS for free.
>2. But iOS users can't receive them (it appears).
>3. So in that respect, the problem is on the iOS recipient's side.
>
>Another part of the problem appears to be...
>A. Android users who are charged those fees can send MMS via RCS for free.
>B. But Android users can't receive them unless they use an RCS messenger.
>C. So in that respect, the problem is on the Android recipient's side.
>
>Meanwhile... the third part of the problem appears to be...
>a. iOS users can send "things" (e.g., pictures) via their Internet app
>b. Which is no different than Telegram, Signal, Threema or WhatsApp
>c. The only difference being all iPhones have that proprietary messaging
>
>Is this an accurate summary of the problem set yet?
>

The 'problem', which is shared by (some) users of both Android and iOS, is
....

"A user of a modern smartphone cannot be confident of sending a
feature-rich message (having features equivalent to the GSMA's RCS
Universal Profile) irrespective of both sender's and recipient's make of
phone, both sender and receiver using their phone's _default_ messaging
facility."

<https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Communication_Services>
Note that RCS does not currently include End to End Encryption (e2ee).

At the moment only SMS messages can be confidently sent and reliably
received.

MMS has been discontinued in many territories:
<https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimedia_Messaging_Service#Decline_and_discontinuation

It is rumoured that Apple will enable RCS in their default message app in
2024 (not replacing iMessage) which is to be welcomed IMO. No doubt people
will continue to use proprietary apps and protocols when they want extra
features - eg e2ee.
--
(Remove numerics from email address)

Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol

<ktormaFikq3U1@mid.individual.net>

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From: jollyro...@pobox.com (Jolly Roger)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.sys.mac.apps
Subject: Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol
Date: 11 Dec 2023 16:28:58 GMT
Organization: People for the Ethical Treatment of Pirates
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 by: Jolly Roger - Mon, 11 Dec 2023 16:28 UTC

On 2023-12-11, Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2023-12-10 18:14, Jolly Roger wrote:
>> On 2023-12-10, Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 2023-12-10 10:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>>> On 09.12.23 22:21, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>>>> On 2023-12-09 21:05, Wally J wrote:
>>>>>> "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not at all.  Apple's system is not a walled garden.  More like an
>>>>>>>> exclusive country club where you get more but can also go
>>>>>>>> anywhere off of the club you want.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The point is that *here* there are only 21% of iPhones, so those
>>>>>>> users have to get out of their walled garden to talk with the
>>>>>>> people, 80% of which are on Android. So, they don't use iMessages.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Carlos brings up the valid points that most of the world is on
>>>>>> Android, and most of the world seems to use WhatsApp (which is the
>>>>>> same as iMessage anyway, in terms of needing to connect to a
>>>>>> middleman mothership server).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But even those on Android in the US have no problem communicating
>>>>>> with iPhone users; it's always mainly the iPhone users who complain
>>>>>> about it.
>>>>>
>>>>> That is not so.
>>>>>
>>>>> Android users have to communicate with iPhone users using third
>>>>> party tools, like WhatsApp, thats not popular in the USA, or ancient
>>>>> protocols like SMS, which lack features. Or use MMS, which in many
>>>>> countries it is expensive, or is being phased out.
>>>>>
>>>>> So yes, we do have problems and we do complain.
>>>>
>>>> I think this is a fair statement. iPhone users do not complain.
>>>
>>> Yes, they do, when they want to communicate with Android users and can
>>> not send photos or multimedia
>>
>> No, they can send photos and multimedia.
>
> Not in Europe, not probably in most of the world. Not using imessages.

People in those countries don't use iMessage in the first place.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol

<ktoro5Fikq3U2@mid.individual.net>

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From: jollyro...@pobox.com (Jolly Roger)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,comp.sys.mac.apps,misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Subject: Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol
Date: 11 Dec 2023 16:29:57 GMT
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 by: Jolly Roger - Mon, 11 Dec 2023 16:29 UTC

On 2023-12-11, Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2023-12-11 09:19, Bernd Froehlich wrote:
>> On 10. Dec 2023 at 13:22:31 CET, ""Carlos E. R."" <robin_listas@es.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, they do, when they want to communicate with Android users and can
>>> not send photos or multimedia, unless they ditch iMessages and switch to
>>> WhatsApp.
>>
>> Sorry, you are missing something:
>>
>> Telegram, Signal, Threema for instance.
>
> Certainly, but we are talking of their native messaging tool that they
> are so happy about, imessages.
>
> As I said, two reasons: in Europe, and probably most of the world except
> NA, MMS which is used to send photos to non Apple users is expensive or
> has been removed, it is not even available.

Which is no big deal since they are already using alternative messaging
apps.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol

<ktp2hkFiqcvU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: robin_li...@es.invalid (Carlos E. R.)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,comp.sys.mac.apps,misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Subject: Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2023 19:25:56 +0100
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 by: Carlos E. R. - Mon, 11 Dec 2023 18:25 UTC

On 2023-12-11 17:08, Dave Royal wrote:
> On 11 Dec 2023 10:38:27 -0400 Wally J wrote:

....

>
> The 'problem', which is shared by (some) users of both Android and iOS, is
> ...
>
> "A user of a modern smartphone cannot be confident of sending a
> feature-rich message (having features equivalent to the GSMA's RCS
> Universal Profile) irrespective of both sender's and recipient's make of
> phone, both sender and receiver using their phone's _default_ messaging
> facility."
>
> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Communication_Services>
> Note that RCS does not currently include End to End Encryption (e2ee).

It does if you use the Google Messages App.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol

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 by: Alan Browne - Mon, 11 Dec 2023 18:29 UTC

On 2023-12-11 11:08, Dave Royal wrote:

> "A user of a modern smartphone cannot be confident of sending a
> feature-rich message (having features equivalent to the GSMA's RCS
> Universal Profile) irrespective of both sender's and recipient's make of
> phone, both sender and receiver using their phone's _default_ messaging
> facility."

Which is a sad argument. There are other means to move large files if
one avenue doesn't work. E-mail, text a link to a repository (Dropbox),
e-mail a link to ... etc.

> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Communication_Services>
> Note that RCS does not currently include End to End Encryption (e2ee).
>
> At the moment only SMS messages can be confidently sent and reliably
> received.
>
> MMS has been discontinued in many territories:
> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimedia_Messaging_Service#Decline_and_discontinuation

6 countries. Oooooooohhhh the horror.

> It is rumoured that Apple will enable RCS in their default message app in

No rumour. Apple have said they will.

> 2024 (not replacing iMessage) which is to be welcomed IMO. No doubt people
> will continue to use proprietary apps and protocols when they want extra
> features - eg e2ee.

It does E2E already in some instances. But Apple is seeking a
non-3rd-party solution to E2E in RCS.

https://www.techradar.com/phones/iphone/breaking-apple-will-support-rcs-in-2024

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol

<ul7mpo$39fdl$1@dont-email.me>

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From: dav...@dave123royal.com (Dave Roya)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,comp.sys.mac.apps,misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Subject: Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol
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In-Reply-To: <ktp2hkFiqcvU1@mid.individual.net>
 by: Dave Roya - Mon, 11 Dec 2023 19:09 UTC

On 11 Dec 2023 19:25:56 +0100 Carlos E. R. wrote:
>On 2023-12-11 17:08, Dave Royal wrote:
>> On 11 Dec 2023 10:38:27 -0400 Wally J wrote:
>
>...
>
>>
>> The 'problem', which is shared by (some) users of both Android and iOS, is
>> ...
>>
>> "A user of a modern smartphone cannot be confident of sending a
>> feature-rich message (having features equivalent to the GSMA's RCS
>> Universal Profile) irrespective of both sender's and recipient's make of
>> phone, both sender and receiver using their phone's _default_ messaging
>> facility."
>>
>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Communication_Services>
>> Note that RCS does not currently include End to End Encryption (e2ee).
>
>It does if you use the Google Messages App.

GSMA's RCS Universal Profile does not.
--
(Remove numerics from email address)

Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol

<ul7n8e$17nd1$1@novabbs.org>

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From: larrywo...@larrywolff.net (Larry Wolff)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,comp.sys.mac.apps,misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Subject: Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2023 14:17:34 -0500
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 by: Larry Wolff - Mon, 11 Dec 2023 19:17 UTC

On Mon, 11 Dec 2023 13:29:51 -0500, Alan Browne wrote:

>> "A user of a modern smartphone cannot be confident of sending a
>> feature-rich message (having features equivalent to the GSMA's RCS
>> Universal Profile) irrespective of both sender's and recipient's make of
>> phone, both sender and receiver using their phone's _default_ messaging
>> facility."
>
> Which is a sad argument. There are other means to move large files if
> one avenue doesn't work. E-mail, text a link to a repository (Dropbox),
> e-mail a link to ... etc.

Nobody said anything about "large files" - as most MMS is group messages &
individual photos and short videos (which are the larger of those files).

>
>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Communication_Services>
>> Note that RCS does not currently include End to End Encryption (e2ee).
>>
>> At the moment only SMS messages can be confidently sent and reliably
>> received.
>>
>> MMS has been discontinued in many territories:
>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimedia_Messaging_Service#Decline_and_discontinuation
>
> 6 countries. Oooooooohhhh the horror.

Countries that have discontinued MMS include:
India (BSNL; from 1 November 2015),
Philippines (SunCel, SmartCommunications, TNT; from 28 September 2018),
Singapore (Singtel, M1, Starhub; from 16 November 2021),
Kazakhstan (Kcell; from 6 May 2022),
Switzerland (Swisscom, Salt Mobile; from 10 January 2023),
Germany (Vodafone; from 17 January 2023).

>> It is rumoured that Apple will enable RCS in their default message app in
>
> No rumour. Apple have said they will.

Apple will include RCS late in 2024 which is probably a September release.

>> 2024 (not replacing iMessage) which is to be welcomed IMO. No doubt people
>> will continue to use proprietary apps and protocols when they want extra
>> features - eg e2ee.
>
> It does E2E already in some instances. But Apple is seeking a
> non-3rd-party solution to E2E in RCS.
> https://www.techradar.com/phones/iphone/breaking-apple-will-support-rcs-in-2024

Isn't all the Apple e2e nullified when people back up to the icloud because
apple stores all your encryption keys in the clear when you use the icloud?

> Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.

You should fix the "your" as you copied it but didn't read it first.

Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol

<ul7o9v$39nl0$1@dont-email.me>

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From: brad...@nospam.com (Bradley)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,comp.sys.mac.apps,misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Subject: Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2023 14:35:28 -0500
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 by: Bradley - Mon, 11 Dec 2023 19:35 UTC

On 12/11/2023 2:17 PM, Larry Wolff wrote:
> Countries that have discontinued MMS include:
> India (BSNL; from 1 November 2015),
> Philippines (SunCel, SmartCommunications, TNT; from 28 September 2018),
> Singapore (Singtel, M1, Starhub; from 16 November 2021),
> Kazakhstan (Kcell; from 6 May 2022),
> Switzerland (Swisscom, Salt Mobile; from 10 January 2023),
> Germany (Vodafone; from 17 January 2023).

The only country that might matter in that short list is Germany.
Anyone know if Germany supports RCS now that it's the world standard?

Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol

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From: robin_li...@es.invalid (Carlos E. R.)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,comp.sys.mac.apps,misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Subject: Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol
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 by: Carlos E. R. - Mon, 11 Dec 2023 22:51 UTC

On 2023-12-11 20:09, Dave Royal wrote:
> On 11 Dec 2023 19:25:56 +0100 Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> On 2023-12-11 17:08, Dave Royal wrote:
>>> On 11 Dec 2023 10:38:27 -0400 Wally J wrote:
>>
>> ...
>>
>>>
>>> The 'problem', which is shared by (some) users of both Android and iOS, is
>>> ...
>>>
>>> "A user of a modern smartphone cannot be confident of sending a
>>> feature-rich message (having features equivalent to the GSMA's RCS
>>> Universal Profile) irrespective of both sender's and recipient's make of
>>> phone, both sender and receiver using their phone's _default_ messaging
>>> facility."
>>>
>>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Communication_Services>
>>> Note that RCS does not currently include End to End Encryption (e2ee).
>>
>> It does if you use the Google Messages App.
>
> GSMA's RCS Universal Profile does not.

Is anybody providing that in the real world?

Samsung switched to the Google version.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol

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From: robin_li...@es.invalid (Carlos E. R.)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,comp.sys.mac.apps,misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Subject: Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol
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In-Reply-To: <ul7o9v$39nl0$1@dont-email.me>
 by: Carlos E. R. - Mon, 11 Dec 2023 22:55 UTC

On 2023-12-11 20:35, Bradley wrote:
> On 12/11/2023 2:17 PM, Larry Wolff wrote:
>> Countries that have discontinued MMS include: India (BSNL; from 1
>> November 2015), Philippines (SunCel, SmartCommunications, TNT; from 28
>> September 2018), Singapore (Singtel, M1, Starhub; from 16 November 2021),
>> Kazakhstan (Kcell; from 6 May 2022),
>> Switzerland (Swisscom, Salt Mobile; from 10 January 2023), Germany
>> (Vodafone; from 17 January 2023).
>
> The only country that might matter in that short list is Germany.

And Switzerland, but they love to drop "ancient" things, like TV over
the air.

> Anyone know if Germany supports RCS now that it's the world standard?

AFAIK, yes, of course.

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol

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From: robin_li...@es.invalid (Carlos E. R.)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,comp.sys.mac.apps,misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Subject: Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol
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 by: Carlos E. R. - Mon, 11 Dec 2023 22:57 UTC

On 2023-12-11 19:29, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2023-12-11 11:08, Dave Royal wrote:
>
>> "A user of a modern smartphone cannot be confident of sending a
>> feature-rich message (having features equivalent to the GSMA's RCS
>> Universal Profile) irrespective of both sender's and recipient's make of
>> phone, both sender and receiver using their phone's _default_ messaging
>> facility."
>
> Which is a sad argument.  There are other means to move large files if
> one avenue doesn't work.  E-mail, text a link to a repository (Dropbox),
> e-mail a link to ... etc.
>
>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Communication_Services>
>> Note that RCS does not currently include End to End Encryption (e2ee).
>>
>> At the moment only SMS messages can be confidently sent and reliably
>> received.
>>
>> MMS has been discontinued in many territories:
>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimedia_Messaging_Service#Decline_and_discontinuation
>
> 6 countries.   Oooooooohhhh the horror.
>
>> It is rumoured that Apple will enable RCS in their default message app in
>
> No rumour.  Apple have said they will.
>
>> 2024 (not replacing iMessage) which is to be welcomed IMO. No doubt
>> people
>> will continue to use proprietary apps and protocols when they want extra
>> features - eg e2ee.
>
> It does E2E already in some instances.  But Apple is seeking a
> non-3rd-party solution to E2E in RCS.
>
> https://www.techradar.com/phones/iphone/breaking-apple-will-support-rcs-in-2024

I'd guess Apple is seeking a Non-Google solution to E2E in RCS. They are
too late for that. :-D

--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.

Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol

<ul95i8$3jdq5$1@dont-email.me>

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From: dav...@dave123royal.com (Dave Roya)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,comp.sys.mac.apps,misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Subject: Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol
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In-Reply-To: <ktpi3rFm6jnU1@mid.individual.net>
 by: Dave Roya - Tue, 12 Dec 2023 08:27 UTC

On 11 Dec 2023 23:51:39 +0100 Carlos E. R. wrote:
>On 2023-12-11 20:09, Dave Royal wrote:
>> On 11 Dec 2023 19:25:56 +0100 Carlos E. R. wrote:
>>> On 2023-12-11 17:08, Dave Royal wrote:
>>>> On 11 Dec 2023 10:38:27 -0400 Wally J wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> The 'problem', which is shared by (some) users of both Android and iOS, is
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> "A user of a modern smartphone cannot be confident of sending a
>>>> feature-rich message (having features equivalent to the GSMA's RCS
>>>> Universal Profile) irrespective of both sender's and recipient's make of
>>>> phone, both sender and receiver using their phone's _default_ messaging
>>>> facility."
>>>>
>>>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Communication_Services>
>>>> Note that RCS does not currently include End to End Encryption (e2ee).
>>>
>>> It does if you use the Google Messages App.
>>
>> GSMA's RCS Universal Profile does not.
>
>Is anybody providing that in the real world?
>
>Samsung switched to the Google version.

The GSMA RCS UP* is a set of standards for a set of features. Google's RCS
implementation is not an /alternative/ to the UP, it is (IIUC) in
compliance with the UP and provides features on top, such as e2ee.

*I keep giving it that long name because 'RCS' could refer to that set of
standards, Google's implementation based on those, or somebody else's
service called RCS.
--
(Remove numerics from email address)

Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol

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From: hugyb...@gmx.net (Jörg Lorenz)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,comp.sys.mac.apps,misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Subject: Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol
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 by: Jörg Lorenz - Tue, 12 Dec 2023 09:13 UTC

On 12.12.23 09:27, Dave Royal wrote:
> On 11 Dec 2023 23:51:39 +0100 Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> Samsung switched to the Google version.
>
> The GSMA RCS UP* is a set of standards for a set of features. Google's RCS
> implementation is not an /alternative/ to the UP, it is (IIUC) in
> compliance with the UP and provides features on top, such as e2ee.

Right. And this encryption is proprietary and is not accepted by Apple.
Meaning that RCS will be introduced but kept outside iMsg.

> *I keep giving it that long name because 'RCS' could refer to that set of
> standards, Google's implementation based on those, or somebody else's
> service called RCS.

Google-RCS will fail inevitably: It has no unique selling proposition
compared to other messengers which exist already for roughly a decade.

--
"Roma locuta, causa finita." (Augustinus)

Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol

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From: hugyb...@gmx.net (Jörg Lorenz)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.sys.mac.apps
Subject: Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2023 10:17:57 +0100
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 by: Jörg Lorenz - Tue, 12 Dec 2023 09:17 UTC

On 10.12.23 13:24, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> It is relevant for me, who don't live in the USA.

We are discussing markets not you.

>>> But even those on Android in the US have no problem communicating with
>>> iPhone users; it's always mainly the iPhone users who complain about it.
>>
>> Even more bullshit. Apple devices have their own software and systems.
>> Android not. That is the reason why Google tries to spread such an
>> inferior chat tool like RCS. The American market is the driving force
>> idiot. And stop try to spread FUD and lies.
>
> Bullshit. :-P

*LOL*. Are you still using Hangouts, Dear?

--
"Roma locuta, causa finita." (Augustinus)

Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol

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From: hugyb...@gmx.net (Jörg Lorenz)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.sys.mac.apps
Subject: Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol
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 by: Jörg Lorenz - Wed, 13 Dec 2023 12:16 UTC

On 10.12.23 14:26, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2023-12-10 04:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> In advanced markets MMS does not exist anymore.
>
> You mean in overpriced telecoms markets like Europe. MMS is still very
> relevant when out of WiFi range and using the cellco for basic chat with
> images and video and not using a 3rd party app.

*ROTFLSTC*
The price level in underdeveloped markets like the US are almost double
what they are in Europe or Asia.

--
"Roma locuta, causa finita." (Augustinus)

Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol

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 by: Alan Browne - Wed, 13 Dec 2023 13:58 UTC

On 2023-12-13 07:16, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> On 10.12.23 14:26, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2023-12-10 04:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>> In advanced markets MMS does not exist anymore.
>>
>> You mean in overpriced telecoms markets like Europe. MMS is still very
>> relevant when out of WiFi range and using the cellco for basic chat with
>> images and video and not using a 3rd party app.
>
> *ROTFLSTC*
> The price level in underdeveloped markets like the US are almost double
> what they are in Europe or Asia.

Then why do they charge so much for MMS in Europe? Have to make up for
the cheap plans?

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol

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Subject: Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol
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 by: Wally J - Wed, 13 Dec 2023 15:11 UTC

Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote

>> The price level in underdeveloped markets like the US are almost double
>> what they are in Europe or Asia.
>
> Then why do they charge so much for MMS in Europe? Have to make up for
> the cheap plans?

I don't see anything from Joerg but I do see Alan Brown's posts where I pay
about $25 a month per line for unlimited everything in the USA on T-Mobile.
<https://i.postimg.cc/L6dFGXVd/tmopromo03.jpg> $100 for 6 lines + $16 fees
Note: Two of those lines are free for life, but Apple bricked one iPad.

How much does unlimited everything typically cost in Europe & in the UK?

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From: dav...@dave123royal.com (Dave Roya)
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Subject: Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol
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 by: Dave Roya - Wed, 13 Dec 2023 15:26 UTC

On 13 Dec 2023 08:58:11 -0500 Alan Browne wrote:
>On 2023-12-13 07:16, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> On 10.12.23 14:26, Alan Browne wrote:
>>> On 2023-12-10 04:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>>> In advanced markets MMS does not exist anymore.
>>>
>>> You mean in overpriced telecoms markets like Europe. MMS is still very
>>> relevant when out of WiFi range and using the cellco for basic chat with
>>> images and video and not using a 3rd party app.
>>
>> *ROTFLSTC*
>> The price level in underdeveloped markets like the US are almost double
>> what they are in Europe or Asia.
>
>Then why do they charge so much for MMS in Europe? Have to make up for
>the cheap plans?

Here in the UK there is keen competition on price, wide network coverage,
and it's easy to swap mobile supplier and port your phone number. The
standard competitive offering these days is a SIM-only rolling monthly
contract with unlimited voice calls and SMSs and varying amounts of data:
typicaly £10/month upwards but can be half that for small amounts of
data. To my knowledge MMSs are always extra - a quick google suggests
£0.5 per MMS is typical. Few people use them so there's no incentive to
include them and every incentive to charge a lot for them.

I think the unpopularity of MMSs is historical, predating smartphones and
the rise of mobile data. Kids sent huge numbers of SMSs, and we adults
used them quite a lot, so operators offered ever higher numbers of them
'free'. MMS never caught on - probably because the experience on a tiny
display was so poor. With smartphones the number of SMSs has declined
drastically, so they're free.

Soon after smartphones appeared, there was WhatsApp! Everybody - apart
from all-iPhone families - had WA and knew that, for sharing photos and
videos, that's what you used. (This was back in the days of Android 4.)

I can't speak knowledgeably about 'Europe' as a whole but for countries
I've had SIMs for, it seemed the same.
--
(Remove numerics from email address)

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 by: Alan Browne - Wed, 13 Dec 2023 19:17 UTC

On 2023-12-13 10:26, Dave Royal wrote:
> On 13 Dec 2023 08:58:11 -0500 Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2023-12-13 07:16, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>> On 10.12.23 14:26, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>> On 2023-12-10 04:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>>>> In advanced markets MMS does not exist anymore.
>>>>
>>>> You mean in overpriced telecoms markets like Europe. MMS is still very
>>>> relevant when out of WiFi range and using the cellco for basic chat with
>>>> images and video and not using a 3rd party app.
>>>
>>> *ROTFLSTC*
>>> The price level in underdeveloped markets like the US are almost double
>>> what they are in Europe or Asia.
>>
>> Then why do they charge so much for MMS in Europe? Have to make up for
>> the cheap plans?
>
> Here in the UK there is keen competition on price, wide network coverage,
> and it's easy to swap mobile supplier and port your phone number. The
> standard competitive offering these days is a SIM-only rolling monthly
> contract with unlimited voice calls and SMSs and varying amounts of data:
> typicaly £10/month upwards but can be half that for small amounts of

Amazing. Here (Canada) an unlimited contract with a paltry 3 - 5 GB of
data is on the order of $40+tax/month. This would be a bring-your-own
phone annual deal. Actually I'm contract free at the moment. So they
bill me monthly. I can walk at any moment and take my number with me.
They're always "upselling" (more data for a small increase in fee).

> data. To my knowledge MMSs are always extra - a quick google suggests
> £0.5 per MMS is typical. Few people use them so there's no incentive to
> include them and every incentive to charge a lot for them.

No extra charge here for larger files (videos, etc.).

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol

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From: hugyb...@gmx.net (Jörg Lorenz)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.sys.mac.apps
Subject: Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol
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 by: Jörg Lorenz - Thu, 14 Dec 2023 07:08 UTC

Am 13.12.23 um 14:58 schrieb Alan Browne:
> On 2023-12-13 07:16, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> On 10.12.23 14:26, Alan Browne wrote:
>>> On 2023-12-10 04:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>>> In advanced markets MMS does not exist anymore.
>>>
>>> You mean in overpriced telecoms markets like Europe. MMS is still very
>>> relevant when out of WiFi range and using the cellco for basic chat with
>>> images and video and not using a 3rd party app.
>>
>> *ROTFLSTC*
>> The price level in underdeveloped markets like the US are almost double
>> what they are in Europe or Asia.
>
> Then why do they charge so much for MMS in Europe? Have to make up for
> the cheap plans?

There are no MMS anymore in Europe. At least in the majority of the
markets. The quality and reliability of MMS is so inferior, that nobody
used them anymore for years. Hence most providers stopped the serivce.

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol

<ule9s6$19fcl$2@dont-email.me>

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: hugyb...@gmx.net (Jörg Lorenz)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.sys.mac.apps
Subject: Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2023 08:12:06 +0100
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 by: Jörg Lorenz - Thu, 14 Dec 2023 07:12 UTC

Am 13.12.23 um 20:17 schrieb Alan Browne:
> Amazing. Here (Canada) an unlimited contract with a paltry 3 - 5 GB of
> data is on the order of $40+tax/month. This would be a bring-your-own
> phone annual deal.

My Wingo Business costs me $50/month everything flat golablly inculding
the US and Canada. Unlimited data roaming everywhere. To put that into
perspective: Switzerland is rather a high price country for
communication services.

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol

<74nu4kx4v9.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>

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From: robin_li...@es.invalid (Carlos E.R.)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.sys.mac.apps
Subject: Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2023 20:47:51 +0100
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 by: Carlos E.R. - Fri, 15 Dec 2023 19:47 UTC

On 2023-12-14 08:08, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 13.12.23 um 14:58 schrieb Alan Browne:
>> On 2023-12-13 07:16, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>> On 10.12.23 14:26, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>> On 2023-12-10 04:38, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>>>> In advanced markets MMS does not exist anymore.
>>>>
>>>> You mean in overpriced telecoms markets like Europe.  MMS is still very
>>>> relevant when out of WiFi range and using the cellco for basic chat
>>>> with
>>>> images and video and not using a 3rd party app.
>>>
>>> *ROTFLSTC*
>>> The price level in underdeveloped markets like the US are almost double
>>> what they are in Europe or Asia.
>>
>> Then why do they charge so much for MMS in Europe?  Have to make up for
>> the cheap plans?
>
> There are no MMS anymore in Europe. At least in the majority of the
> markets. The quality and reliability of MMS is so inferior, that nobody
> used them anymore for years. Hence most providers stopped the serivce.

I just tested, and MMS is available in Movistar (Spain).

To test, I disabled RCS in phone #2. Then in phone #1 I tried to send a
message. It changed the display note to "SMS". I typed "Aa" then a big
smiley. Instantly, it said MMS. I did not hit send, it costs money.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol

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From: walterjo...@invalid.nospam (Wally J)
Newsgroups: comp.mobile.android,misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.sys.mac.apps
Subject: Re: Beeper Mini: Latest Android app to emulate iMessage protocol
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 by: Wally J - Thu, 21 Dec 2023 02:12 UTC

"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote

> I just tested, and MMS is available in Movistar (Spain).
>
> To test, I disabled RCS in phone #2. Then in phone #1 I tried to send a
> message. It changed the display note to "SMS". I typed "Aa" then a big
> smiley. Instantly, it said MMS. I did not hit send, it costs money.

Thanks for running that test for the team, Carlos, as everyone pitches in
to provide the tribal knowledge of these combined Usenet newsgroups.

Here in the states, most of us (not all though) have unlimited free MMS so
we don't need RCS to send MMS via the Internet data on the phone plan.

Hence, we don't see as much value to RCS as you do - where the iPhone users
seem to complain a lot about bubble color which is another thing most of us
don't care about (as on Android, all users look the same to us, AFAICT).

Hence, for those few who are affected by MMS charges, it's good that you
ran those tests as we can't run them given we don't have the same issues.
--
Usenet is a wonderful way to meet smart people on both sides of the Pond.

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