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computers / alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt / Re: CPU goes very slow half the time

SubjectAuthor
* CPU goes very slow half the timeCommander Kinsey
+- Re: CPU goes very slow half the timeJoel
+* Re: CPU goes very slow half the timeEd Cryer
|`* Re: CPU goes very slow half the timeCommander Kinsey
| `* Re: CPU goes very slow half the timeBill
|  `* Re: CPU goes very slow half the timeCommander Kinsey
|   +* Re: CPU goes very slow half the timePaul
|   |`- Re: CPU goes very slow half the timeCommander Kinsey
|   `* Re: CPU goes very slow half the timeMighty✅ Wannabe✅
|    `- Re: CPU goes very slow half the timeCommander Kinsey
+* Re: CPU goes very slow half the timeFromTheRafters
|`- Re: CPU goes very slow half the timeCommander Kinsey
`* Re: CPU goes very slow half the timeMr. Man-wai Chang
 `- Re: CPU goes very slow half the timeCommander Kinsey

1
CPU goes very slow half the time

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 by: Commander Kinsey - Mon, 23 Jan 2023 12:22 UTC

I have an old Q8400 quad core CPU and often it goes at a fraction of the speed. Rebooting usually makes it go normal speed, for about half a day, then it goes slow again. Novabench scores the CPU at 51 when slow and 381 when fast. The clock is normal, the temperature is normal. Where do I look next? Is it the CPU's fault or the motherboard?

Re: CPU goes very slow half the time

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From: joelcr...@gmail.com (Joel)
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Subject: Re: CPU goes very slow half the time
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 by: Joel - Mon, 23 Jan 2023 12:30 UTC

"Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

>I have an old Q8400 quad core CPU and often it goes at a fraction of the speed. Rebooting usually makes it go normal speed, for about half a day, then it goes slow again. Novabench scores the CPU at 51 when slow and 381 when fast. The clock is normal, the temperature is normal. Where do I look next? Is it the CPU's fault or the motherboard?

Pay for the operating system.

--
Joel Crump

Re: CPU goes very slow half the time

<tqlvb3$3kar5$1@dont-email.me>

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From: ed...@somewhere.in.the.uk (Ed Cryer)
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Subject: Re: CPU goes very slow half the time
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 by: Ed Cryer - Mon, 23 Jan 2023 12:41 UTC

Commander Kinsey wrote:
> I have an old Q8400 quad core CPU and often it goes at a fraction of the
> speed. Rebooting usually makes it go normal speed, for about half a day,
> then it goes slow again. Novabench scores the CPU at 51 when slow and
> 381 when fast. The clock is normal, the temperature is normal. Where do
> I look next? Is it the CPU's fault or the motherboard?

You want to know what's hogging memory. Open Task Manager, Processes
tab, click on CPU to get them listed in size order.

Ed

Re: CPU goes very slow half the time

<op.1y77ungqmvhs6z@ryzen.home>

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 by: Commander Kinsey - Mon, 23 Jan 2023 13:31 UTC

On Mon, 23 Jan 2023 12:41:57 -0000, Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> wrote:

> Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> I have an old Q8400 quad core CPU and often it goes at a fraction of the
>> speed. Rebooting usually makes it go normal speed, for about half a day,
>> then it goes slow again. Novabench scores the CPU at 51 when slow and
>> 381 when fast. The clock is normal, the temperature is normal. Where do
>> I look next? Is it the CPU's fault or the motherboard?
>
> You want to know what's hogging memory. Open Task Manager, Processes
> tab, click on CPU to get them listed in size order.

The memory in use is about 15% of the 8GB (max the board will take). It's nothing to do with memory, the CPU is running slow. It's been suggested on elevenforums it may be a MB voltage regulator problem (or I'm thinking my PSU which is passing it 11.3V), whereas an identical PSU on another machine with a much more powerful CPU is 11.95V.

Re: CPU goes very slow half the time

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 by: Bill - Mon, 23 Jan 2023 18:15 UTC

On 1/23/2023 8:31 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Jan 2023 12:41:57 -0000, Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>> I have an old Q8400 quad core CPU and often it goes at a fraction of the
>>> speed. Rebooting usually makes it go normal speed, for about half a day,
>>> then it goes slow again. Novabench scores the CPU at 51 when slow and
>>> 381 when fast. The clock is normal, the temperature is normal. Where do
>>> I look next? Is it the CPU's fault or the motherboard?
>>
>> You want to know what's hogging memory. Open Task Manager, Processes
>> tab, click on CPU to get them listed in size order.
>
> The memory in use is about 15% of the 8GB (max the board will take).
> It's nothing to do with memory, the CPU is running slow.  It's been
> suggested on elevenforums it may be a MB voltage regulator problem (or
> I'm thinking my PSU which is passing it 11.3V), whereas an identical PSU
> on another machine with a much more powerful CPU is 11.95V.

Does a simple Windows "restart" fix the problem, or does it require a
shutdown first? If the latter, that may hint at a hardware problem, as
you described. I really don't have much expertise in diagnosing issues
like this, but it would be interesting and relatively non-invasive to
try a different power supply.

Re: CPU goes very slow half the time

<op.1y8mjgpymvhs6z@ryzen.home>

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 by: Commander Kinsey - Mon, 23 Jan 2023 18:48 UTC

On Mon, 23 Jan 2023 18:15:11 -0000, Bill <nonegiven@att.net> wrote:

> On 1/23/2023 8:31 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> On Mon, 23 Jan 2023 12:41:57 -0000, Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>> I have an old Q8400 quad core CPU and often it goes at a fraction of the
>>>> speed. Rebooting usually makes it go normal speed, for about half a day,
>>>> then it goes slow again. Novabench scores the CPU at 51 when slow and
>>>> 381 when fast. The clock is normal, the temperature is normal. Where do
>>>> I look next? Is it the CPU's fault or the motherboard?
>>>
>>> You want to know what's hogging memory. Open Task Manager, Processes
>>> tab, click on CPU to get them listed in size order.
>>
>> The memory in use is about 15% of the 8GB (max the board will take).
>> It's nothing to do with memory, the CPU is running slow. It's been
>> suggested on elevenforums it may be a MB voltage regulator problem (or
>> I'm thinking my PSU which is passing it 11.3V), whereas an identical PSU
>> on another machine with a much more powerful CPU is 11.95V.
>
> Does a simple Windows "restart" fix the problem, or does it require a
> shutdown first?

I was just restarting to fix it, but that has stopped sorting it now.

> If the latter, that may hint at a hardware problem, as
> you described. I really don't have much expertise in diagnosing issues
> like this, but it would be interesting and relatively non-invasive to
> try a different power supply.

I shall do the power supply first, since I have loads of the exact same model, and the ones running more powerful systems are producing a voltage way closer to 12V. After that I guess the VRM or the caps on the board need to be investigated, or just buy another board on Ebay for a tenner!

Re: CPU goes very slow half the time

<tqmrg9$3p3pu$1@dont-email.me>

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From: FTR...@nomail.afraid.org (FromTheRafters)
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 by: FromTheRafters - Mon, 23 Jan 2023 20:42 UTC

on 1/23/2023, Commander Kinsey supposed :
> I have an old Q8400 quad core CPU and often it goes at a fraction of the
> speed. Rebooting usually makes it go normal speed, for about half a day, then
> it goes slow again. Novabench scores the CPU at 51 when slow and 381 when
> fast. The clock is normal, the temperature is normal. Where do I look next?

Do you have an oscilloscope? Do you have coolant spray?

> Is it the CPU's fault or the motherboard?

It depends upon further information. I'm thinking thermally triggered
noise elsewhere since you say the CPU temperature and clock seem okay.

Re: CPU goes very slow half the time

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From: nos...@needed.invalid (Paul)
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Subject: Re: CPU goes very slow half the time
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 by: Paul - Mon, 23 Jan 2023 20:48 UTC

On 1/23/2023 1:48 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Jan 2023 18:15:11 -0000, Bill <nonegiven@att.net> wrote:
>
>> On 1/23/2023 8:31 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>> On Mon, 23 Jan 2023 12:41:57 -0000, Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>> I have an old Q8400 quad core CPU and often it goes at a fraction of the
>>>>> speed. Rebooting usually makes it go normal speed, for about half a day,
>>>>> then it goes slow again. Novabench scores the CPU at 51 when slow and
>>>>> 381 when fast. The clock is normal, the temperature is normal. Where do
>>>>> I look next? Is it the CPU's fault or the motherboard?
>>>>
>>>> You want to know what's hogging memory. Open Task Manager, Processes
>>>> tab, click on CPU to get them listed in size order.
>>>
>>> The memory in use is about 15% of the 8GB (max the board will take).
>>> It's nothing to do with memory, the CPU is running slow.  It's been
>>> suggested on elevenforums it may be a MB voltage regulator problem (or
>>> I'm thinking my PSU which is passing it 11.3V), whereas an identical PSU
>>> on another machine with a much more powerful CPU is 11.95V.
>>
>> Does a simple Windows "restart" fix the problem, or does it require a
>> shutdown first?
>
> I was just restarting to fix it, but that has stopped sorting it now.
>
>> If the latter, that may hint at a hardware problem, as
>> you described.  I really don't have much expertise in diagnosing issues
>> like this, but it would be interesting and relatively non-invasive to
>> try a different power supply.
>
> I shall do the power supply first, since I have loads of the exact same model, and the ones running more powerful systems are producing a voltage way closer to 12V.  After that I guess the VRM or the caps on the board need to be investigated, or just buy another board on Ebay for a tenner!

This sounds like an L1/L2/L3 cache issue.

A cache not being turned on, can have a large impact on performance.

No, it's not a power supply issue. There is no "linear relationship"
between ATX12V1/12V2 and CPU speed as such. The VCore regulator
hides all the "variation" in ATX12V, so that the CPU cannot see it.
VCore is a regulator. A constant value comes out, even if the input
varies by a bit.

CPUs are temperature sensitive. They throttle (inject NOPs) in
the event they get too hot, and the do-nothing instructions
allow more opportunities for the CPU to cool off.

Throttle Temp - start injecting NOPs

THERMTRIP - total shutdown on overtemperature, 20C above throttle point

RMClock (no longer under development), had a graph for throttling.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/2388/6

While it is fine to use CPU temperature and CoreTemp for this
information, I prefer readouts showing frequency, to close the
loop on the problem.

https://www.addictivetips.com/windows-tips/check-cpu-throttling-windows-10/

Paul

Re: CPU goes very slow half the time

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 by: Mighty✅ Wannabe✅ - Mon, 23 Jan 2023 23:35 UTC

Commander Kinsey wrote on 1/23/2023 1:48 PM:
> On Mon, 23 Jan 2023 18:15:11 -0000, Bill <nonegiven@att.net> wrote:
>
>> On 1/23/2023 8:31 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>> On Mon, 23 Jan 2023 12:41:57 -0000, Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>> I have an old Q8400 quad core CPU and often it goes at a fraction
>>>>> of the
>>>>> speed. Rebooting usually makes it go normal speed, for about half
>>>>> a day,
>>>>> then it goes slow again. Novabench scores the CPU at 51 when slow and
>>>>> 381 when fast. The clock is normal, the temperature is normal.
>>>>> Where do
>>>>> I look next? Is it the CPU's fault or the motherboard?
>>>>
>>>> You want to know what's hogging memory. Open Task Manager, Processes
>>>> tab, click on CPU to get them listed in size order.
>>>
>>> The memory in use is about 15% of the 8GB (max the board will take).
>>> It's nothing to do with memory, the CPU is running slow.  It's been
>>> suggested on elevenforums it may be a MB voltage regulator problem (or
>>> I'm thinking my PSU which is passing it 11.3V), whereas an identical
>>> PSU
>>> on another machine with a much more powerful CPU is 11.95V.
>>
>> Does a simple Windows "restart" fix the problem, or does it require a
>> shutdown first?
>
> I was just restarting to fix it, but that has stopped sorting it now.
>
>> If the latter, that may hint at a hardware problem, as
>> you described.  I really don't have much expertise in diagnosing issues
>> like this, but it would be interesting and relatively non-invasive to
>> try a different power supply.
>
> I shall do the power supply first, since I have loads of the exact
> same model, and the ones running more powerful systems are producing a
> voltage way closer to 12V.  After that I guess the VRM or the caps on
> the board need to be investigated, or just buy another board on Ebay
> for a tenner!

Have you checked Task Manager --> Performances  to see if the CPU is
running at the rated speed? Is it busy accessing the disk to swap page
files? Is it busy accessing the internet to send your data to the cloud
storage, One Drive, Google Drive, some hacker in Russia?

Re: CPU goes very slow half the time

<op.10c204ximvhs6z@ryzen.home>

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Subject: Re: CPU goes very slow half the time
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 by: Commander Kinsey - Tue, 14 Feb 2023 15:08 UTC

On Mon, 23 Jan 2023 23:35:23 -0000, Mighty✅ Wannabe✅ <.> wrote:

> Commander Kinsey wrote on 1/23/2023 1:48 PM:
>> On Mon, 23 Jan 2023 18:15:11 -0000, Bill <nonegiven@att.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/23/2023 8:31 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 23 Jan 2023 12:41:57 -0000, Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>> I have an old Q8400 quad core CPU and often it goes at a fraction
>>>>>> of the
>>>>>> speed. Rebooting usually makes it go normal speed, for about half
>>>>>> a day,
>>>>>> then it goes slow again. Novabench scores the CPU at 51 when slow and
>>>>>> 381 when fast. The clock is normal, the temperature is normal.
>>>>>> Where do
>>>>>> I look next? Is it the CPU's fault or the motherboard?
>>>>>
>>>>> You want to know what's hogging memory. Open Task Manager, Processes
>>>>> tab, click on CPU to get them listed in size order.
>>>>
>>>> The memory in use is about 15% of the 8GB (max the board will take)..
>>>> It's nothing to do with memory, the CPU is running slow. It's been
>>>> suggested on elevenforums it may be a MB voltage regulator problem (or
>>>> I'm thinking my PSU which is passing it 11.3V), whereas an identical
>>>> PSU
>>>> on another machine with a much more powerful CPU is 11.95V.
>>>
>>> Does a simple Windows "restart" fix the problem, or does it require a
>>> shutdown first?
>>
>> I was just restarting to fix it, but that has stopped sorting it now.
>>
>>> If the latter, that may hint at a hardware problem, as
>>> you described. I really don't have much expertise in diagnosing issues
>>> like this, but it would be interesting and relatively non-invasive to
>>> try a different power supply.
>>
>> I shall do the power supply first, since I have loads of the exact
>> same model, and the ones running more powerful systems are producing a
>> voltage way closer to 12V. After that I guess the VRM or the caps on
>> the board need to be investigated, or just buy another board on Ebay
>> for a tenner!
>
> Have you checked Task Manager --> Performances to see if the CPU is
> running at the rated speed?

It's about 5% slower than the base clock when using all 4 cores (there's no HT on that CPU). But the processing is taking 15 times longer than it used to.

> Is it busy accessing the disk to swap page files?

No.

> Is it busy accessing the internet to send your data to the cloud
> storage, One Drive, Google Drive, some hacker in Russia?

No.

Re: CPU goes very slow half the time

<op.10c23cjmmvhs6z@ryzen.home>

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Subject: Re: CPU goes very slow half the time
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 by: Commander Kinsey - Tue, 14 Feb 2023 15:10 UTC

On Mon, 23 Jan 2023 20:48:28 -0000, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

> On 1/23/2023 1:48 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> On Mon, 23 Jan 2023 18:15:11 -0000, Bill <nonegiven@att.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/23/2023 8:31 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 23 Jan 2023 12:41:57 -0000, Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Commander Kinsey wrote:
>>>>>> I have an old Q8400 quad core CPU and often it goes at a fraction of the
>>>>>> speed. Rebooting usually makes it go normal speed, for about half a day,
>>>>>> then it goes slow again. Novabench scores the CPU at 51 when slow and
>>>>>> 381 when fast. The clock is normal, the temperature is normal. Where do
>>>>>> I look next? Is it the CPU's fault or the motherboard?
>>>>>
>>>>> You want to know what's hogging memory. Open Task Manager, Processes
>>>>> tab, click on CPU to get them listed in size order.
>>>>
>>>> The memory in use is about 15% of the 8GB (max the board will take).
>>>> It's nothing to do with memory, the CPU is running slow. It's been
>>>> suggested on elevenforums it may be a MB voltage regulator problem (or
>>>> I'm thinking my PSU which is passing it 11.3V), whereas an identical PSU
>>>> on another machine with a much more powerful CPU is 11.95V.
>>>
>>> Does a simple Windows "restart" fix the problem, or does it require a
>>> shutdown first?
>>
>> I was just restarting to fix it, but that has stopped sorting it now.
>>
>>> If the latter, that may hint at a hardware problem, as
>>> you described. I really don't have much expertise in diagnosing issues
>>> like this, but it would be interesting and relatively non-invasive to
>>> try a different power supply.
>>
>> I shall do the power supply first, since I have loads of the exact same model, and the ones running more powerful systems are producing a voltage way closer to 12V. After that I guess the VRM or the caps on the board need to be investigated, or just buy another board on Ebay for a tenner!
>
> This sounds like an L1/L2/L3 cache issue.
>
> A cache not being turned on, can have a large impact on performance.

How would I check that?

Re: CPU goes very slow half the time

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 by: Commander Kinsey - Tue, 14 Feb 2023 15:10 UTC

On Mon, 23 Jan 2023 20:42:46 -0000, FromTheRafters <FTR@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:

> on 1/23/2023, Commander Kinsey supposed :
>> I have an old Q8400 quad core CPU and often it goes at a fraction of the
>> speed. Rebooting usually makes it go normal speed, for about half a day, then
>> it goes slow again. Novabench scores the CPU at 51 when slow and 381 when
>> fast. The clock is normal, the temperature is normal. Where do I look next?
>
> Do you have an oscilloscope? Do you have coolant spray?

Yes to both.

>> Is it the CPU's fault or the motherboard?
>
> It depends upon further information. I'm thinking thermally triggered
> noise elsewhere since you say the CPU temperature and clock seem okay.

It used to do it once warmed up, now it does it at any temperature.

Re: CPU goes very slow half the time

<tsj3up$2uk5n$1@toylet.eternal-september.org>

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 by: Mr. Man-wai Chang - Wed, 15 Feb 2023 17:14 UTC

On 23/1/2023 8:22 pm, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> I have an old Q8400 quad core CPU and often it goes at a fraction of the speed. Rebooting usually makes it go normal speed, for about half a day, then it goes slow again. Novabench scores the CPU at 51 when slow and 381 when fast. The clock is normal, the temperature is normal. Where do I look next? Is it the CPU's fault or the motherboard?

Use Task Manager to find process with high CPU usage?

Re: CPU goes very slow half the time

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 by: Commander Kinsey - Thu, 23 Feb 2023 04:30 UTC

On Wed, 15 Feb 2023 17:14:57 -0000, Mr. Man-wai Chang <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 23/1/2023 8:22 pm, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> I have an old Q8400 quad core CPU and often it goes at a fraction of the speed. Rebooting usually makes it go normal speed, for about half a day, then it goes slow again. Novabench scores the CPU at 51 when slow and 381 when fast. The clock is normal, the temperature is normal. Where do I look next? Is it the CPU's fault or the motherboard?
>
> Use Task Manager to find process with high CPU usage?

It says there isn't much.

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