Hi,

Is anyone else seeing problems with message to paranoici.org?

I'm seeing hundreds of them back up in my MTA's outgoing mail queue.

Trace routes to the remote system fail close to the receiving system.

--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

On 2022-02-23 01:44, Grant Taylor wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Is anyone else seeing problems with message to paranoici.org?
>
> I'm seeing hundreds of them back up in my MTA's outgoing mail queue.
>
> Trace routes to the remote system fail close to the receiving system.

Yes, I'm seeing the same at Orange Remailer. I am presently reaching out
to the remop at <remailer-admin@remailer.paranoici.org>

--
SEC3

YAMN Tutorials - https://sec3.net/yamnhelp

On 2022-02-23 09:11, SEC3 wrote:
> Yes, I'm seeing the same at Orange Remailer. I am presently reaching out
> to the remop at <remailer-admin@remailer.paranoici.org>

I didn't think that through, did I? He's not going to see my email!

When this has happened in the past I would contact him through the
Remops listserv. But the listserv is gone now.

'Hope Paranoia admin takes notice of his down server and fixes it soon.

--
SEC3

YAMN Tutorials - https://sec3.net/yamnhelp

On 2/23/22 8:17 AM, SEC3 wrote:
> I didn't think that through, did I? He's not going to see my email!

;-)

Been there. Done that. At least you realized your own goof before
someone pointed it out to you.

> When this has happened in the past I would contact him through the
> Remops listserv. But the listserv is gone now.

Hum.

I thought I received a message from the Remops mailing list recently.
But looking back, it seems like mid November '21 was the last message.

Do we need a replacement?

I see some value in a list of remops.

IMHO such a list should only be open to operators of remailers;
remailer-operators.

I don't know if there is value in a separate list that's open to more
people as users; remailer-users.

--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 8:38:49 PM UTC+1, Grant Taylor wrote:
> On 2/23/22 8:17 AM, SEC3 wrote:
> > I didn't think that through, did I? He's not going to see my email!
> ;-)
>
> Been there. Done that. At least you realized your own goof before
> someone pointed it out to you.
> > When this has happened in the past I would contact him through the
> > Remops listserv. But the listserv is gone now.
> Hum.
>
> I thought I received a message from the Remops mailing list recently.
> But looking back, it seems like mid November '21 was the last message.
>
> Do we need a replacement?
>
> I see some value in a list of remops.
>
> IMHO such a list should only be open to operators of remailers;
> remailer-operators.
>
> I don't know if there is value in a separate list that's open to more
> people as users; remailer-users.

Hi Grant,

that can be archived real-quick in less than five minutes, without paying
a dime.

Regards
Stefan

On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 9:15:33 PM UTC+1, Stefan Claas wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 8:38:49 PM UTC+1, Grant Taylor wrote:
> > On 2/23/22 8:17 AM, SEC3 wrote:
> > > I didn't think that through, did I? He's not going to see my email!
> > ;-)
> >
> > Been there. Done that. At least you realized your own goof before
> > someone pointed it out to you.
> > > When this has happened in the past I would contact him through the
> > > Remops listserv. But the listserv is gone now.
> > Hum.
> >
> > I thought I received a message from the Remops mailing list recently.
> > But looking back, it seems like mid November '21 was the last message.
> >
> > Do we need a replacement?
> >
> > I see some value in a list of remops.
> >
> > IMHO such a list should only be open to operators of remailers;
> > remailer-operators.
> >
> > I don't know if there is value in a separate list that's open to more
> > people as users; remailer-users.
> Hi Grant,
>
> that can be archived real-quick in less than five minutes, without paying
> a dime.

Done. ;-)

(One for Cypherpunks exists as well ...)

Regards
Stefan

On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 9:19:29 PM UTC+1, Stefan Claas wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 9:15:33 PM UTC+1, Stefan Claas wrote:
> > On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 8:38:49 PM UTC+1, Grant Taylor wrote:
> > > On 2/23/22 8:17 AM, SEC3 wrote:
> > > > I didn't think that through, did I? He's not going to see my email!
> > > ;-)
> > >
> > > Been there. Done that. At least you realized your own goof before
> > > someone pointed it out to you.
> > > > When this has happened in the past I would contact him through the
> > > > Remops listserv. But the listserv is gone now.
> > > Hum.
> > >
> > > I thought I received a message from the Remops mailing list recently.
> > > But looking back, it seems like mid November '21 was the last message.
> > >
> > > Do we need a replacement?
> > >
> > > I see some value in a list of remops.
> > >
> > > IMHO such a list should only be open to operators of remailers;
> > > remailer-operators.
> > >
> > > I don't know if there is value in a separate list that's open to more
> > > people as users; remailer-users.
> > Hi Grant,
> >
> > that can be archived real-quick in less than five minutes, without paying
> > a dime.
> Done. ;-)

https://groups.google.com/g/remops/about

Regards
Stefan

On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 9:22:40 PM UTC+1, Stefan Claas wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 9:19:29 PM UTC+1, Stefan Claas wrote:
> > On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 9:15:33 PM UTC+1, Stefan Claas wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, February 23, 2022 at 8:38:49 PM UTC+1, Grant Taylor wrote:
> > > > On 2/23/22 8:17 AM, SEC3 wrote:
> > > > > I didn't think that through, did I? He's not going to see my email!
> > > > ;-)
> > > >
> > > > Been there. Done that. At least you realized your own goof before
> > > > someone pointed it out to you.
> > > > > When this has happened in the past I would contact him through the
> > > > > Remops listserv. But the listserv is gone now.
> > > > Hum.
> > > >
> > > > I thought I received a message from the Remops mailing list recently.
> > > > But looking back, it seems like mid November '21 was the last message.
> > > >
> > > > Do we need a replacement?
> > > >
> > > > I see some value in a list of remops.
> > > >
> > > > IMHO such a list should only be open to operators of remailers;
> > > > remailer-operators.
> > > >
> > > > I don't know if there is value in a separate list that's open to more
> > > > people as users; remailer-users.
> > > Hi Grant,
> > >
> > > that can be archived real-quick in less than five minutes, without paying
> > > a dime.
> > Done. ;-)
> https://groups.google.com/g/remops/about

If people have concerns about a Google Remops Group, I can, if remops
have already modern (r)age at their disposal, create a group key and
it is easy with (r)age to do encrypted group communications. ;-)

Regards
Stefan

On 2022-02-23 10:17, SEC3 wrote:
> On 2022-02-23 09:11, SEC3 wrote:
>> Yes, I'm seeing the same at Orange Remailer. I am presently reaching
>> out to the remop at <remailer-admin@remailer.paranoici.org>
>
> I didn't think that through, did I? He's not going to see my email!

Paranoia Admin did receive my email and replied:

"thanks for your report, it was an issue with the vpn tunnel, now fixed."

--
SEC3

YAMN Tutorials - https://sec3.net/yamnhelp

On 2/23/22 2:32 PM, SEC3 wrote:
> Paranoia Admin did receive my email and replied:
>
> "thanks for your report, it was an issue with the vpn tunnel, now fixed."

*nod*

I noticed that I had about 2k messages queued for Paranoia overnight and
that they had been drained.

So things look good now. :-)

--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

On 2/23/22 1:22 PM, Stefan Claas wrote:
> https://groups.google.com/g/remops/about

*HEAVYsigh*

I would have avoided Google Groups. But if that's what the remailer
community wants to use, then so be it.

- Privacy concerns related to google.
- Maybe it's just me, but I feel like remailers are somewhat like oil
and water with Google's attempts to keep things clean.
- BIG DATA concerns

C'est la vie.

--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

On 2/23/22 1:34 PM, Stefan Claas wrote:
> If people have concerns about a Google Remops Group, I can, if remops
> have already modern (r)age at their disposal, create a group key and
> it is easy with (r)age to do encrypted group communications. ;-)

I know that I'm out of the loop and behind the times, but I have
absolutely no idea what (r)age is in this context. I don't even know if
that's "age" / "rage" (variants of each other?) or if the proper name of
something is "(r)age" including parenthesis.

As such I have absolutely no idea what capabilities it has much less
what platforms it runs on.

--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 16:59:35 -0700, Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> wrote:
>Ste

"HAL was told to lie... by people who find it easy to lie."
--Dr. Chandra(Sivasubramanian Chandrasegaram Pillai/aka Mr.
Langley) in '2010: The Year We Make Contact'(c)1984, MGM

On Wed, 23 Feb 2022 16:57:09 -0700, Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> wrote:
>Ste

Murad Jacob Kevorkian was born to Levon & Satenig Kevorkian
in Pontiac (83W17,42N38) Michigan, on Saturday May 26, 1928.

On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 12:59:19 AM UTC+1, Grant Taylor wrote:
> On 2/23/22 1:34 PM, Stefan Claas wrote:
> > If people have concerns about a Google Remops Group, I can, if remops
> > have already modern (r)age at their disposal, create a group key and
> > it is easy with (r)age to do encrypted group communications. ;-)
> I know that I'm out of the loop and behind the times, but I have
> absolutely no idea what (r)age is in this context. I don't even know if
> that's "age" / "rage" (variants of each other?) or if the proper name of
> something is "(r)age" including parenthesis.
>
> As such I have absolutely no idea what capabilities it has much less
> what platforms it runs on.

To answer both of your replies. I choose Google Groups for the following
reasons:

Remops there can post and discuss issues, new trends etc. without
worring that 3rd parties read their postings and the list can not been
spammed. Remops wishing to join need to contact me with their
remops email address and I can, for example, assign you as moderator.

The reason why I mentioned (r)age is that in case Remops would feel
uncomfortable posting in clear text I can offer a group key so that we
all can encrypt threads there.

Why (r)age? The author of age is a very nice person very very intelligent
when it comes to crypto, He is the security lead for Golang when it comes
to crypto and has for example more followers on Twitter than the GnuPG
project on Twitter. Many InfoSec, Security etc. professionals have already
switched to (r)age in favor of OpenPGP. (r)age is modern and allows already
storing your private key (currently in the case of rage) on a YubiKey and is
easy to use (for group communications). All my friends, for example, switched
already to age.

Regards
Stefan
--
claas.su

On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 10:12:49 AM UTC+1, Stefan Claas wrote:
> On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 12:59:19 AM UTC+1, Grant Taylor wrote:
> > On 2/23/22 1:34 PM, Stefan Claas wrote:
> > > If people have concerns about a Google Remops Group, I can, if remops
> > > have already modern (r)age at their disposal, create a group key and
> > > it is easy with (r)age to do encrypted group communications. ;-)
> > I know that I'm out of the loop and behind the times, but I have
> > absolutely no idea what (r)age is in this context. I don't even know if
> > that's "age" / "rage" (variants of each other?) or if the proper name of
> > something is "(r)age" including parenthesis.
> >
> > As such I have absolutely no idea what capabilities it has much less
> > what platforms it runs on.
> To answer both of your replies. I choose Google Groups for the following
> reasons:
>
> Remops there can post and discuss issues, new trends etc. without
> worring that 3rd parties read their postings and the list can not been
> spammed. Remops wishing to join need to contact me with their
> remops email address and I can, for example, assign you as moderator.

Forgot. You can use your favorite MUA to post/read there and do not
need to join Google Groups via a Web Browser.

Regards
Stefan
--
claas.su

Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> wrote:

> On 2/23/22 1:22 PM, Stefan Claas wrote:
> > https://groups.google.com/g/remops/about
>
> *HEAVYsigh*
>
> I would have avoided Google Groups. But if that's what the remailer
> community wants to use, then so be it.
>
> - Privacy concerns related to google.
> - Maybe it's just me, but I feel like remailers are somewhat like oil
> and water with Google's attempts to keep things clean.
> - BIG DATA concerns

+1, an ill-considered choice. Good luck making privacy activists, who
avoid Google like the plague, create an account there.

On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 23:02:35 +0100 (CET), Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> wrote:
>Ste

"white eyes"

On Friday, February 25, 2022 at 11:02:37 PM UTC+1, Nomen Nescio wrote:
> Grant Taylor <gta...@tnetconsulting.net> wrote:
>
> > On 2/23/22 1:22 PM, Stefan Claas wrote:
> > > https://groups.google.com/g/remops/about
> >
> > *HEAVYsigh*
> >
> > I would have avoided Google Groups. But if that's what the remailer
> > community wants to use, then so be it.
> >
> > - Privacy concerns related to google.
> > - Maybe it's just me, but I feel like remailers are somewhat like oil
> > and water with Google's attempts to keep things clean.
> > - BIG DATA concerns
> +1, an ill-considered choice. Good luck making privacy activists, who
> avoid Google like the plague, create an account there.

Maybe I was not clear enough. In theory I could whitelist Exit Remailers
email addresses and then not only Remops could mail there their postings
but also other people, which I and I guess Grant likes to avoid.

If a Remop would like to join, he simply sends me a request for his remops
email address, same as on the old Remops ML, and then I would whitelist
his email address, so that he can use his favorite MUA to mail his posting
or a reply. Agreed, this would be then only for mature Remops probably,
because they are not anonymous, but that is the case also with other
Mailing Lists, as I have figured out, for example, that this is no longer
possible with the GnuPG Mailing List.

Regards
Stefan
--
claas.su

On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 12:14:47 AM UTC+1, Stefan Claas wrote:
> On Friday, February 25, 2022 at 11:02:37 PM UTC+1, Nomen Nescio wrote:
> > Grant Taylor <gta...@tnetconsulting.net> wrote:
> >
> > > On 2/23/22 1:22 PM, Stefan Claas wrote:
> > > > https://groups.google.com/g/remops/about
> > >
> > > *HEAVYsigh*
> > >
> > > I would have avoided Google Groups. But if that's what the remailer
> > > community wants to use, then so be it.
> > >
> > > - Privacy concerns related to google.
> > > - Maybe it's just me, but I feel like remailers are somewhat like oil
> > > and water with Google's attempts to keep things clean.
> > > - BIG DATA concerns
> > +1, an ill-considered choice. Good luck making privacy activists, who
> > avoid Google like the plague, create an account there.
> Maybe I was not clear enough. In theory I could whitelist Exit Remailers
> email addresses and then not only Remops could mail there their postings
> but also other people, which I and I guess Grant likes to avoid.
>
> If a Remop would like to join, he simply sends me a request for his remops
> email address, same as on the old Remops ML, and then I would whitelist
> his email address, so that he can use his favorite MUA to mail his posting
> or a reply. Agreed, this would be then only for mature Remops probably,
> because they are not anonymous, but that is the case also with other
> Mailing Lists, as I have figured out, for example, that this is no longer
> possible with the GnuPG Mailing List.

If that is still not accepted by Remops, even with a (r)age encryption group
key for all members (for all the same key), then I could create a hidden
Bitmessage chan, with an address an attacker would not figure out and the
address, in case of lost, would be regenerateable via Argon2id. But people,
like sec3 called Bitmessage negatively as Bitmessage hole ...

Well, it was only a voluntarely offer from me and if there is no Remops group,
so it be.

Regards
Stefan
--
claas.su

On 2/25/22 4:14 PM, Stefan Claas wrote:
> Maybe I was not clear enough. In theory I could whitelist Exit Remailers
> email addresses and then not only Remops could mail there their postings
> but also other people, which I and I guess Grant likes to avoid.

I think that running a remailer is a grey hat operation. I think that
Google Groups is (largely) a white hat / public location. As such I
feel like the two don't mix.

I personally avoid using Google if I can reasonably do so, but that's by
personal preference. As it's a preference, I try to not impose it on
anyone else.

> If a Remop would like to join, he simply sends me a request for his remops
> email address, same as on the old Remops ML, and then I would whitelist
> his email address, so that he can use his favorite MUA to mail his posting
> or a reply. Agreed, this would be then only for mature Remops probably,
> because they are not anonymous, but that is the case also with other
> Mailing Lists, as I have figured out, for example, that this is no longer
> possible with the GnuPG Mailing List.

I get the impression that you think I'm opposed to the Web UI / UX. My
primary concern is that I feel like discussing remailers on Google
Groups is about like discussing how to pirate movies in the MPAA's
lobby. If you are doing it on purpose, then that's a display of hutzpah
and so be it. If you're using Google Groups because it's convenient or
easy, well, I question if there isn't a better, less public, place to do it.

--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

On 2/25/22 4:30 PM, Stefan Claas wrote:
> If that is still not accepted by Remops, even with a (r)age encryption group
> key for all members (for all the same key), then I could create a hidden
> Bitmessage chan,

I feel like that's verging on adding complexity for complexity's sake.

> with an address an attacker would not figure out

I don't think that's going to work out like you want. The address,
whatever technology it is, is going to need to be public enough that new
remailer operators can find and use it. As such, an attacker will quite
likely find it the same way. Or what if a remailer operator /is/ the
attacker?

> Well, it was only a voluntarely offer from me and if there is no Remops group,
> so it be.

I was about to offer to host a mailing list. That is if we couldn't get
the list re-established where it was. I don't know mixmin's current
state. Some of it is there, but other parts of it aren't.

My only hesitation is that is that my old Mailman v2 installation is
long in the tooth and doesn't have any ""production mailing lists. As
such, I was considering retiring it. Seeing as how I'm /not/ going to
mess with Mailman v3, I don't currently have anything to offer in it's
place.

--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 12:49:16 AM UTC+1, Grant Taylor wrote:
> On 2/25/22 4:30 PM, Stefan Claas wrote:
> > If that is still not accepted by Remops, even with a (r)age encryption group
> > key for all members (for all the same key), then I could create a hidden
> > Bitmessage chan,

> I feel like that's verging on adding complexity for complexity's sake.
> > with an address an attacker would not figure out

> I don't think that's going to work out like you want. The address,
> whatever technology it is, is going to need to be public enough that new
> remailer operators can find and use it. As such, an attacker will quite
> likely find it the same way. Or what if a remailer operator /is/ the
> attacker?

Well the Bitmessage address from a chan would be a name that consists
of a regeneratable (thanks to Argon2id) 256bit hex string and would be
mailed, upon request, via email, encrypted to a Remops email address.

> > Well, it was only a voluntarely offer from me and if there is no Remops group,
> > so it be.
> I was about to offer to host a mailing list. That is if we couldn't get
> the list re-established where it was. I don't know mixmin's current
> state. Some of it is there, but other parts of it aren't.

I think that would be nice if you do so, because you are a know Remop
here same as Zax.

> My only hesitation is that is that my old Mailman v2 installation is
> long in the tooth and doesn't have any ""production mailing lists. As
> such, I was considering retiring it. Seeing as how I'm /not/ going to
> mess with Mailman v3, I don't currently have anything to offer in it's
> place.

Ah, ok. Understand.

On the other side, I can't loose the feeling that the majority of Remops
are probably no longer or very seldom reading a.p.a-s or in the past
had used Zax's ML.

It would be however nice if with such a new list we could "recruit" new
Remops and also talk about the latest developments and not only
running a YAMN or Mixmaster Remailer.

Regards
Stefan
--
claas.su

On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 16:49:32 -0700, Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> wrote:
>Ste

"Who's the leader of the club
That's made for you and me
M-I-C-K-E-Y M-O-U-S-E
Hey! there, Hi! there, Ho! there
You're as welcome as can be
M-I-C-K-E-Y M-O-U-S-E
Mickey Mouse!
(Donald Duck)
Mickey Mouse!
(Donald Duck)
Forever let us hold our banner
High! High! High! High!
Come along and sing the song
And join the jamboree!
M-I-C-K-E-Y M-O-U-S-E
Mickey Mouse club
Mickey Mouse club
We'll have fun
We'll meet new faces
We'll do things and
We'll go places
All around the world
We're marching
Who's the leader of the club
That's made for you and me
M-I-C-K-E-Y M-O-U-S-E
Hey! there, Hi! there, Ho! there
You're as welcome as can be
M-I-C-K-E-Y M-O-U-S-E
Mickey Mouse!
(Donald Duck)
Mickey Mouse!
(Donald Duck)
Forever let us hold our banner
High! High! High! High!
Come along and sing a song
And join the jamboree!
M-I-C-K-E-Y M-O-U-S-E
(yay Mickey)
(yay Mickey)
(yay Mickey Mouse Club!)"
--music composed by Jimmie Dodd
(c)1955 Walt Disney Productions

Walter Elias Disney was born to Elias Charles & Flora Call-Disney
in a modest two-story wood cottage built by his father in 1892-93
at 1249 Tripp Avenue (87W43:59,41N55:14; now 2156 N Tripp Avenue),
Chicago, IL on Thursday December 5, 1901 at 12:35 AM CST(autobio).

On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 16:44:15 -0700, Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> wrote:
>Ste

James Warren Jones was born to James Thurman & Lynetta Putnam-
Jones on the family farm(84W51:42,40N02:36) in Crete, Randolph
County Indiana on Wednesday 13 May 1931 at 10:00 PM CST(AA/BC).