badgolferman wrote:

> Maybe they can't be refuted, but could you describe why the Android
> models are more secure? Specifically the ones that are in the hands of
> common users because we know you lock yours down rather tightly.
> People who have Facebook, TikTok, etc. can't be secure at all
> regardless of what operating system they use.

Hi badgolferman,

That's an adult question which is perfectly logical for you to ask of me.
What _other_ metric would you like me to compare iOS vs Android security?

A zero-day bug that gives _full_ permission is pretty severe, whether or
not you "think" you locked down the phone rather tightly. You can't.

Whether or not you use Facebook or TikTok, etc., if they _already_ have
full control over your phone, then it doesn't really matter the lock down.

That's why the zero days which give the bad guys _full control_ are so bad.
And yet, Apple isn't even _looking_ for them (based on the evidence).

Apple is only advertising that they are secure.
And yet, iOS has the absolute worst record on zero-day exploits.

Why doesn't Apple advertise that?
My biggest beef with Apple is how much Apple lies to the gullible public.

*Apple is an absolutely despicable company in terms of how much they lie*
(Apple only tells the truth when forced to in court.)

Since you're an adult, I don't have to simplify everything for you like I
have to do with the iKooks who have never read a newspaper in their lives.

In terms of zero-day bugs, Apple never finds any of them, correct?
That's just a fact, right?

Now, in terms of zero-day bugs (that Apple never finds), Google Project
Zero said _half_ of them are the _same_ exploit done again a different way.

Given Apple found _zero_ of the zero-day exploits, and given half of them
are _already_ known to Apple (in terms of methodology), it's clear Apple
isn't even _looking_ for zero-day bugs, right?

Now if you dispute that, I will simply bring up the facts that Apple has,
multiple times, re-released zero-day bugs (yes, you heard that correctly).

The fact that Apple doesn't even put in place checks for bugs they already
fixed, let alone the fact half the zero day exploits are foreseeable, tells
me that Apple isn't even _looking_ for those bugs (which is my key point).

Now... with that background in place (yes, I know it's way too
comprehensive for the iKooks to fathom which is why I don't talk to the
iKooks as if they're adults)... let's look at the zero-days for the iPhone.

Whom do you think has far more zero days year after year: iOS or Android
Which do you think?

Bear in mind unless you've never read a newspaper in your life, you'd know
the answer, so we can assume you already know who has the most zero days.

Hence, in terms of zero-day security, iOS is far less secure than is
Android; however, since you're an adult, we can delve deeper than that.

What _other_ metric would you like me to compare iOS vs Android security?

Andy Burnelli wrote:

>badgolferman wrote:
>
>>Maybe they can't be refuted, but could you describe why the Android
>>models are more secure? Specifically the ones that are in the
>>hands of common users because we know you lock yours down rather
>>tightly. People who have Facebook, TikTok, etc. can't be secure at
>>all regardless of what operating system they use.
>
>Hi badgolferman,
>
>That's an adult question which is perfectly logical for you to ask of
>me. What other metric would you like me to compare iOS vs Android
>security?
>
>A zero-day bug that gives full permission is pretty severe, whether or
>not you "think" you locked down the phone rather tightly. You can't.
>
>Whether or not you use Facebook or TikTok, etc., if they already have
>full control over your phone, then it doesn't really matter the lock
>down.
>
>That's why the zero days which give the bad guys _full control_ are
>so bad. And yet, Apple isn't even looking for them (based on the
>evidence).
>
>Apple is only advertising that they are secure.
>And yet, iOS has the absolute worst record on zero-day exploits.
>
>Why doesn't Apple advertise that?
>My biggest beef with Apple is how much Apple lies to the gullible
>public.
>
>*Apple is an absolutely despicable company in terms of how much they
>lie* (Apple only tells the truth when forced to in court.)
>
>Since you're an adult, I don't have to simplify everything for you
>like I have to do with the iKooks who have never read a newspaper in
>their lives.
>
>In terms of zero-day bugs, Apple never finds any of them, correct?
>That's just a fact, right?
>
>Now, in terms of zero-day bugs (that Apple never finds), Google
>Project Zero said half of them are the same exploit done again a
>different way.
>
>Given Apple found zero of the zero-day exploits, and given half of
>them are already known to Apple (in terms of methodology), it's clear
>Apple isn't even looking for zero-day bugs, right?
>
>Now if you dispute that, I will simply bring up the facts that Apple
>has, multiple times, re-released zero-day bugs (yes, you heard that
>correctly).
>
>The fact that Apple doesn't even put in place checks for bugs they
>already fixed, let alone the fact half the zero day exploits are
>foreseeable, tells me that Apple isn't even looking for those bugs
>(which is my key point).
>
>Now... with that background in place (yes, I know it's way too
>comprehensive for the iKooks to fathom which is why I don't talk to
>the iKooks as if they're adults)... let's look at the zero-days for
>the iPhone.
>
>Whom do you think has far more zero days year after year: iOS or
>Android Which do you think?
>
>Bear in mind unless you've never read a newspaper in your life, you'd
>know the answer, so we can assume you already know who has the most
>zero days.
>
>Hence, in terms of zero-day security, iOS is far less secure than is
>Android; however, since you're an adult, we can delve deeper than
>that.
>
>What other metric would you like me to compare iOS vs Android
>security?

Not being a security expert, I admit some of this stuff is over my
head. So here are some more questions:

-- why are there zero-day exploits at all?
-- what does Android do that's different than Apple?
-- how would I know if my iPhone is compromised? (zero-day or any-day)

In article <tkjhs2$jrcs$1@dont-email.me>, badgolferman
<REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote:

> -- why are there zero-day exploits at all?

because nothing in this world is perfect. all software has bugs, and
sometimes the bad guys find them first and use them to their advantage.

> -- what does Android do that's different than Apple?

quite a bit. the oses are very different internally.

> -- how would I know if my iPhone is compromised? (zero-day or any-day)

how do you know if your windows pc has been compromised?

sometimes it's easy to tell and sometimes it's not.

nospam wrote:

>> -- how would I know if my iPhone is compromised? (zero-day or
>>any-day)
>
>how do you know if your windows pc has been compromised?
>
>sometimes it's easy to tell and sometimes it's not.

I know when my anti-virus program detects something or my computer is
acting differently. I also know how to disinfect it. There is no such
method of detection or disinfection for the iPhone which is readily
available to me, is there?

In article <tkjj40$jufg$1@dont-email.me>, badgolferman
<REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote:

> >> -- how would I know if my iPhone is compromised? (zero-day or
> >>any-day)
> >
> >how do you know if your windows pc has been compromised?
> >
> >sometimes it's easy to tell and sometimes it's not.
>
>
> I know when my anti-virus program detects something or my computer is
> acting differently. I also know how to disinfect it. There is no such
> method of detection or disinfection for the iPhone which is readily
> available to me, is there?

nope, because it's not needed due to sandboxing.

in fact, apple blocks ios anti-malware apps because they *can't* do
what they claim. in other words, they're fraudulent (and that includes
on other platforms too).

that doesn't mean ios devices are immune, it's just that it's a *lot*
more difficult than on other platforms.

On 2022-11-10 19:02:27 +0000, badgolferman said:

> Andy Burnelli wrote:
>
>> badgolferman wrote:
>>
>>> Maybe they can't be refuted, but could you describe why the Android
>>> models are more secure? Specifically the ones that are in the
>>> hands of common users because we know you lock yours down rather
>>> tightly. People who have Facebook, TikTok, etc. can't be secure at
>>> all regardless of what operating system they use.
>>
>> Hi badgolferman,
>>
>> That's an adult question which is perfectly logical for you to ask of
>> me. What other metric would you like me to compare iOS vs Android
>> security?
>>
>> A zero-day bug that gives full permission is pretty severe, whether or
>> not you "think" you locked down the phone rather tightly. You can't.
>>
>> Whether or not you use Facebook or TikTok, etc., if they already have
>> full control over your phone, then it doesn't really matter the lock
>> down.
>>
>> That's why the zero days which give the bad guys _full control_ are
>> so bad. And yet, Apple isn't even looking for them (based on the
>> evidence).
>>
>> Apple is only advertising that they are secure.
>> And yet, iOS has the absolute worst record on zero-day exploits.
>>
>> Why doesn't Apple advertise that?
>> My biggest beef with Apple is how much Apple lies to the gullible
>> public.
>>
>> *Apple is an absolutely despicable company in terms of how much they
>> lie* (Apple only tells the truth when forced to in court.)
>>
>> Since you're an adult, I don't have to simplify everything for you
>> like I have to do with the iKooks who have never read a newspaper in
>> their lives.
>>
>> In terms of zero-day bugs, Apple never finds any of them, correct?
>> That's just a fact, right?
>>
>> Now, in terms of zero-day bugs (that Apple never finds), Google
>> Project Zero said half of them are the same exploit done again a
>> different way.
>>
>> Given Apple found zero of the zero-day exploits, and given half of
>> them are already known to Apple (in terms of methodology), it's clear
>> Apple isn't even looking for zero-day bugs, right?
>>
>> Now if you dispute that, I will simply bring up the facts that Apple
>> has, multiple times, re-released zero-day bugs (yes, you heard that
>> correctly).
>>
>> The fact that Apple doesn't even put in place checks for bugs they
>> already fixed, let alone the fact half the zero day exploits are
>> foreseeable, tells me that Apple isn't even looking for those bugs
>> (which is my key point).
>>
>> Now... with that background in place (yes, I know it's way too
>> comprehensive for the iKooks to fathom which is why I don't talk to
>> the iKooks as if they're adults)... let's look at the zero-days for
>> the iPhone.
>>
>> Whom do you think has far more zero days year after year: iOS or
>> Android Which do you think?
>>
>> Bear in mind unless you've never read a newspaper in your life, you'd
>> know the answer, so we can assume you already know who has the most
>> zero days.
>>
>> Hence, in terms of zero-day security, iOS is far less secure than is
>> Android; however, since you're an adult, we can delve deeper than
>> that.
>>
>> What other metric would you like me to compare iOS vs Android
>> security?
>
>
> Not being a security expert, I admit some of this stuff is over my
> head. So here are some more questions:
>
> -- why are there zero-day exploits at all?
> -- what does Android do that's different than Apple?
> -- how would I know if my iPhone is compromised? (zero-day or any-day)

Please just ignore that moronic anti-Apple know-nothing troll "Andy
Burnelli" (and numerous sock puppets). The idiot posts nothing but
complete and utter bullshit.

On 2022-11-10 11:02, badgolferman wrote:
> Andy Burnelli wrote:
>
>> badgolferman wrote:
>>
>>> Maybe they can't be refuted, but could you describe why the Android
>>> models are more secure? Specifically the ones that are in the
>>> hands of common users because we know you lock yours down rather
>>> tightly. People who have Facebook, TikTok, etc. can't be secure at
>>> all regardless of what operating system they use.
>>
>> Hi badgolferman,
>>
>> That's an adult question which is perfectly logical for you to ask of
>> me. What other metric would you like me to compare iOS vs Android
>> security?
>>
>> A zero-day bug that gives full permission is pretty severe, whether or
>> not you "think" you locked down the phone rather tightly. You can't.
>>
>> Whether or not you use Facebook or TikTok, etc., if they already have
>> full control over your phone, then it doesn't really matter the lock
>> down.
>>
>> That's why the zero days which give the bad guys _full control_ are
>> so bad. And yet, Apple isn't even looking for them (based on the
>> evidence).
>>
>> Apple is only advertising that they are secure.
>> And yet, iOS has the absolute worst record on zero-day exploits.
>>
>> Why doesn't Apple advertise that?
>> My biggest beef with Apple is how much Apple lies to the gullible
>> public.
>>
>> *Apple is an absolutely despicable company in terms of how much they
>> lie* (Apple only tells the truth when forced to in court.)
>>
>> Since you're an adult, I don't have to simplify everything for you
>> like I have to do with the iKooks who have never read a newspaper in
>> their lives.
>>
>> In terms of zero-day bugs, Apple never finds any of them, correct?
>> That's just a fact, right?
>>
>> Now, in terms of zero-day bugs (that Apple never finds), Google
>> Project Zero said half of them are the same exploit done again a
>> different way.
>>
>> Given Apple found zero of the zero-day exploits, and given half of
>> them are already known to Apple (in terms of methodology), it's clear
>> Apple isn't even looking for zero-day bugs, right?
>>
>> Now if you dispute that, I will simply bring up the facts that Apple
>> has, multiple times, re-released zero-day bugs (yes, you heard that
>> correctly).
>>
>> The fact that Apple doesn't even put in place checks for bugs they
>> already fixed, let alone the fact half the zero day exploits are
>> foreseeable, tells me that Apple isn't even looking for those bugs
>> (which is my key point).
>>
>> Now... with that background in place (yes, I know it's way too
>> comprehensive for the iKooks to fathom which is why I don't talk to
>> the iKooks as if they're adults)... let's look at the zero-days for
>> the iPhone.
>>
>> Whom do you think has far more zero days year after year: iOS or
>> Android Which do you think?
>>
>> Bear in mind unless you've never read a newspaper in your life, you'd
>> know the answer, so we can assume you already know who has the most
>> zero days.
>>
>> Hence, in terms of zero-day security, iOS is far less secure than is
>> Android; however, since you're an adult, we can delve deeper than
>> that.
>>
>> What other metric would you like me to compare iOS vs Android
>> security?
>
>
> Not being a security expert, I admit some of this stuff is over my
> head. So here are some more questions:
>
> -- why are there zero-day exploits at all?

Because no software is free of bugs.

> -- what does Android do that's different than Apple?

Nothing.

> -- how would I know if my iPhone is compromised? (zero-day or any-day)

Read? Google?

On 2022-11-10 19:23:44 +0000, badgolferman said:

> nospam wrote:
>
>>> -- how would I know if my iPhone is compromised? (zero-day or
>>> any-day)
>>
>> how do you know if your windows pc has been compromised?
>>
>> sometimes it's easy to tell and sometimes it's not.
>
>
> I know when my anti-virus program detects something or my computer is
> acting differently. I also know how to disinfect it.

There is a ton of Windoze malware (and Android malware) that doesn't
show any visible symptoms nor is detected, let alone removed, by any
anti-malware apps ... who are always two steps behind the malware
makers anyway.

> There is no such method of detection or disinfection for the iPhone
> which is readily available to me, is there?

Just do a search on the app store and you'll find a load of anti-virus
apps, privacy blockers, etc. from all the usual names like Macafee,
Norton, etc.

The reality is that you do not need any of them since despite all the
claims (mostly by anti-malware makers and know-nothing trolls), nobody
in the real world has ever had a problem unless doing something stupid
like visitin porn sites and using pirate / jailbreak apps.

In article <tkjksh$71m$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Your Name
<YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

>
> Just do a search on the app store and you'll find a load of anti-virus
> apps, privacy blockers, etc. from all the usual names like Macafee,
> Norton, etc.

no you won't, since anti-malware apps are not allowed.

content blockers are entirely different, and on ios, they're designed
so that pwning is virtually impossible (nothing is 100% perfect).

> The reality is that you do not need any of them since despite all the
> claims (mostly by anti-malware makers and know-nothing trolls), nobody
> in the real world has ever had a problem unless doing something stupid
> like visitin porn sites and using pirate / jailbreak apps.

this is false.

badgolferman wrote:

> Not being a security expert, I admit some of this stuff is over my
> head. So here are some more questions:

Hi badgoloferman,

EDIT: Surprisingly, nospam's response to this post was accurate.
(It's not by accident that I've said he's the smartest of the ignorant
iKooks where, in that response, nospam didn't try to bullshit you.)

Thank you for responding to this thread like an adult would react.
Your questions are perfectly valid and to be expected as an adult.

It's my opinion that you don't need to be a "security expert" to read
what's in the news which is to simply observe the well-known facts.

FACT: *The Apple smartphones have the _most_ zero-day holes.*
FACT: Clearly Apple isn't finding them (maybe not even _looking_ for them)!
FACT: Only iOS 16 can be expected to be fully patched (even if they did).

Those are facts, right?
It's up to us, as adults, to _interpret_ those facts.

Notice I speak with you differently than I do with the uneducated iKooks.
Not only are they ignorant of all facts, they dispute them to the death.

Only a fool disputes facts.
An adult bases his belief system on the known facts.

If there's any factual statement you want me to cite, just let me know as
you know I am credible (but all of this was previously cited on this ng).

> -- why are there zero-day exploits at all?

As Project Zero has reported many times, Apple coding is horrific.
If you don't believe me, I can reference what we've cited many times.

Worse, as also cited, Apple code is so horrific that much of it doesn't
even work (Apple doesn't even _look_ for unexercised unused code in iOS)!

Worse, as has been cited in the past, Apple doesn't even put in place any
remedial actions each time someone else finds their zero-day iOS holes.

*It's no wonder iOS is the most insecure smartphone operating system*

> -- what does Android do that's different than Apple?

That's a good question indeed.
The Android operating system development process is _completely_ different.

There's almost nothing in common between how Android & iOS are developed.

> -- how would I know if my iPhone is compromised? (zero-day or any-day)

Given iOS is the most insecure smartphone operating system, and given the
rate is a new zero-day is added by Apple every month for years on end, and
given as many as three to six zero-days are exploited at a time, you can
pretty much assume you're extremely vulnerable on iOS at this very moment.

Which brings me to the factual summary which is in the title:
*No smartphone is less secure than an Apple smartphone*

Note that's not what irks me about Apple's duplicity since iOS was never
meant to be secure; what irks me are Apple's bold lies to the contrary.

Apple only tells the truth in court.

PS: Notice in the responses how _afraid_ of facts "Your Name" was, and yet,
how rational nospam was in his response (which was mildly shocking to me).

We _can_ talk like adults... if...
a. If the iKooks (like Your Name) refrain from their mindless trolling, and
b. If the iKooks (like nospam) don't defend everything Apple to the death.

As for your quite valid question of what Android does differently, nospam
was wholly correct that there's almost nothing in common in their
development environments so the simple answer is _everything_ is different.

But the complex answer is something I will try to ask on the Android
newsgroups which is why is Android less vulnerable to zero-day exploits.
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information
which, in this case, is to have an adult conversation about zero-day bugs.

Your Name wrote:

> There is a ton of Windoze malware (and Android malware) that doesn't
> show any visible symptoms nor is detected, let alone removed, by any
> anti-malware apps ... who are always two steps behind the malware
> makers anyway.

Hi nospam,

It's obvious from the ignorant iKook Your Name's desperate attempt to
deflect the topic off of Apple's smartphone insecurity to that of
Microsoft's operating system that the iKook is _afraid_ of the topic.

Why is it that the iKooks are so mind numbingly _afraid_ of Apple's flaws?
A security discussion on its own merits should be a civil conversation.

nospam wrote:

> In article <tkjksh$71m$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Your Name
> <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Just do a search on the app store and you'll find a load of anti-virus
>> apps, privacy blockers, etc. from all the usual names like Macafee,
>> Norton, etc.
>
> no you won't, since anti-malware apps are not allowed.

On that topic of anti-malware apps for iOS, and while I don't use
anti-malware programs on my smartphones and iPads, certainly they are
advertised to exist for iOS, aren't they? (albeit, mostly shills)

*Best antiviruses for iPhone �V our detailed list*
<https://cybernews.com/best-antivirus-software/antivirus-for-iphone/>

*Best iPhone antivirus apps in 2022: top iOS security protection*
<https://www.techradar.com/best/best-iphone-antivirus-app>

*The best antivirus apps for the iPhone*
<https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/best-antivirus-for-iphone/>

> content blockers are entirely different, and on ios, they're designed
> so that pwning is virtually impossible (nothing is 100% perfect).

On that note of iOS content blockers, here's one for iOS:
*Malwarebytes - Phone Security - Block Robocalls & Filter Texts*
<https://apps.apple.com/us/app/malwarebytes-phone-security/id1327105431>

While I'm pretty sure nospam has read a newspaper in the past few years, so
he's well aware of this fact, I'm pretty sure Your Name hasn't read a
newspaper in his entire life (figuratively speaking), so it's important
that there is a greater variety of "utilities" on Android than on iOS.

*Malwarebytes Mobile Security*
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.malwarebytes.antimalware>
"The Malwarebytes free antivirus app offers top spyware detection
and virus protection."

>> The reality is that you do not need any of them since despite all the
>> claims (mostly by anti-malware makers and know-nothing trolls), nobody
>> in the real world has ever had a problem unless doing something stupid
>> like visitin porn sites and using pirate / jailbreak apps.
>
> this is false.

Once again, nospam is being reasonable when he points out that virtually
everything the ignorant uneducated Your Name iKook said, was incorrect.

One has to wonder how people that incredibly ignorant can survive in this
world, but then again, Apple seems to love people like this Your Name is.

In return, this ignorant YourName iKooks loves Apple (it's a fair trade).

However, the value of this thread isn't anything that the ignorant iKooks
can possibly impart - but the value is what _adults_ can teach each other.

If the summary in the Subject line is in any way false, then discuss that:
*No smartphone is less secure than an Apple smartphone*

It's what _adults_ do when they converse amongst intellectual equals.
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information
which, in this case, is to agree with nospam that Your Name is mistaken.

In article <tkkqk7$9tb$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Andy Burnelli
<spam@nospam.com> wrote:

> Your Name wrote:
>
> > There is a ton of Windoze malware (and Android malware) that doesn't
> > show any visible symptoms nor is detected, let alone removed, by any
> > anti-malware apps ... who are always two steps behind the malware
> > makers anyway.
>
> Hi nospam,
>

fix your scripts, trollboy

> On that topic of anti-malware apps for iOS, and while I don't use
> anti-malware programs on my smartphones and iPads, certainly they are
> advertised to exist for iOS, aren't they? (albeit, mostly shills)
>
> *Best antiviruses for iPhone ?V our detailed list*
> <https://cybernews.com/best-antivirus-software/antivirus-for-iphone/>
>
> *Best iPhone antivirus apps in 2022: top iOS security protection*
> <https://www.techradar.com/best/best-iphone-antivirus-app>
>
> *The best antivirus apps for the iPhone*
> <https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/best-antivirus-for-iphone/>

those familiar with ios (i.e., not you) can easily see that the various
so called anti-virus apps listed in those links don't do anything about
viruses and even tout features that are part of ios itself.

simply doing a search on keywords without understanding what it is your
searching for only exposes your ignorance.

among what's listed are apps that check for insecure wifi networks (ios
does that already), malicious websites and if the device is jailbroken
(as if the user doesn't know that, since they would had to have taken
steps to jailbreak it). there may also be a vpn, which is definitely
not 'anti-virus'.

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> simply doing a search on keywords without understanding what it is your
> searching for only exposes your ignorance.

Indeed. Troll boy does this all the time. The links he posts prove he is
wrong. Clearly, he never reads the links he posts.

From one of the links troll boy posted:

“Do I need antivirus software for my iPhone?

Unless you jailbreak your iPhone, you do not need specific antivirus
software to protect it from malware. That’s because the iOS platform
sandboxes apps inside a user partition that prohibits access to your
iPhone’s operating system. This prevents apps from changing other apps,
files, or processes. Viruses can’t infect iOS devices because they are
powerless to act on an iOS device.”

The VERY FIRST LINE of another link:

“If you own an iPhone or iPad, you might know that iOS is one of the most
secure mainstream operating systems on the market, rivaled only by Linux.”

Troll boy is such a fool.

On 2022-11-11, Andy Burnelli <spam@nospam.com> wrote:
> Your Name wrote:
>
>> There is a ton of Windoze malware (and Android malware) that doesn't
>> show any visible symptoms nor is detected, let alone removed, by any
>> anti-malware apps ... who are always two steps behind the malware
>> makers anyway.
>
> Hi nospam,

LOL... Arlen is such an idiot. : D

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR