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computers / news.software.nntp / Re: Alternative to NNTP / Usenet

SubjectAuthor
* Alternative to NNTP / UsenetG.K.
+* Re: Alternative to NNTP / UsenetAioe
|`- Re: Alternative to NNTP / UsenetSeth Hurst
+- Re: Alternative to NNTP / UsenetG.K.
`- Re: Alternative to NNTP / UsenetAndreas Kempe

1
Alternative to NNTP / Usenet

<tft4vj$a96j$1@news.mixmin.net>

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https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=1177&group=news.software.nntp#1177

 copy link   Newsgroups: news.groups news.software.nntp news.admin.peering
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!news.mixmin.net!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: gk...@g.k (G.K.)
Newsgroups: news.groups,news.software.nntp,news.admin.peering
Subject: Alternative to NNTP / Usenet
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 13:05:02 -0500
Organization: Mixmin
Message-ID: <tft4vj$a96j$1@news.mixmin.net>
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logging-data="337107"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@mixmin.net"
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 by: G.K. - Wed, 14 Sep 2022 18:05 UTC

Serious question. Serious and direct answers only, please.

If there were available open source server software for a new protocol
similar to NNTP, with optional moderated and secret hierarchies, and a
built-in mixnet for secret, encrypted hierarchies, which of you would
install and run the server?

The protocol design would use special cryptographic primitives to enable
secret hierarchies without revealing the content of the groups therein.
All peers would route encrypted mix messages by default, unless
specifically disabled by admin. All mix messages would be broken up into
standard-size packets and delay switch routed randomly to obfuscate origin.

Initially I would not be shipping with a specialized client. That would
come later. The initial server would respond to some usenet commands
from newsreaders like Thunderbird, Pan, etc. But those clients would not
be able to use the encrypted mix features.

Client proof-of-work would be used to mitigate spam and flood attack.
Optional signup and authentication would be available for admins who
don't want random anonymous users and the spam headaches.

The protocol would not interoperate with NNTP servers, which would be
totally incompatible with the cryptography and routing architecture.

It would be designed for zero-configuration setup and automatic peering
of public text groups out of the box. Just copy the binary to path, set
a cron or init script to run it, and done. It would automatically sync
with randomly-chosen peers and switch to a new peer every few minutes.

How many people would actually run such server? Would there be a demand
to justify polishing it for production use in the wild?

--

G.K.

Re: Alternative to NNTP / Usenet

<tft9q9$fm8$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=1178&group=news.software.nntp#1178

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From: est...@aioe.org (Aioe)
Newsgroups: news.groups,news.software.nntp,news.admin.peering
Subject: Re: Alternative to NNTP / Usenet
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2022 21:24:55 +0200
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <tft9q9$fm8$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <tft4vj$a96j$1@news.mixmin.net>
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 by: Aioe - Wed, 14 Sep 2022 19:24 UTC

Il 14/09/22 20:05, G.K. ha scritto:
> If there were available open source server software for a new protocol
> similar to NNTP, with optional moderated and secret hierarchies, and a
> built-in mixnet for secret, encrypted hierarchies, which of you would
> install and run the server?

i may consider to run that service not before having seen that program

Re: Alternative to NNTP / Usenet

<tg37kb$1nmj$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=1181&group=news.software.nntp#1181

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From: set...@home.sethhurst.com (Seth Hurst)
Newsgroups: news.groups,news.software.nntp,news.admin.peering
Subject: Re: Alternative to NNTP / Usenet
Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2022 01:24:27 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <tg37kb$1nmj$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <tft4vj$a96j$1@news.mixmin.net> <tft9q9$fm8$1@gioia.aioe.org>
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 by: Seth Hurst - Sat, 17 Sep 2022 01:24 UTC

On Wed, 14 Sep 2022 21:24:55 +0200, Aioe wrote:

> Il 14/09/22 20:05, G.K. ha scritto:
>> If there were available open source server software for a new protocol
>> similar to NNTP, with optional moderated and secret hierarchies, and a
>> built-in mixnet for secret, encrypted hierarchies, which of you would
>> install and run the server?
>
> i may consider to run that service not before having seen that program

Always down for trying new tech but like messages before me would have to
see the server and maybe a demo server to see how it actuly works.

Re: Alternative to NNTP / Usenet

<tg4dr2$ktq$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=1182&group=news.software.nntp#1182

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!K9cNkFNSxcehLnhnqU1j+Q.user.46.165.242.75.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: gk...@g.k (G.K.)
Newsgroups: news.groups,news.software.nntp,news.admin.peering
Subject: Re: Alternative to NNTP / Usenet
Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2022 12:16:40 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID: <tg4dr2$ktq$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <tft4vj$a96j$1@news.mixmin.net>
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 by: G.K. - Sat, 17 Sep 2022 12:16 UTC

Hi Stefan!

> If there were available open source server software for a new protocol
> similar to NNTP, with optional moderated and secret hierarchies,

What's the use of secret hierarchies?

> How many people would actually run such server?

A fraction of the people who run NNTP servers.

> Would there be a demand

No.

Re: Alternative to NNTP / Usenet

<slrnticiir.1nb3.kempe@renge.lysator.liu.se>

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https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=1183&group=news.software.nntp#1183

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From: kem...@lysator.liu.se (Andreas Kempe)
Newsgroups: news.groups,news.software.nntp,news.admin.peering
Subject: Re: Alternative to NNTP / Usenet
Followup-To: news.groups
Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2022 22:29:47 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Lysator ACS
Message-ID: <slrnticiir.1nb3.kempe@renge.lysator.liu.se>
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User-Agent: slrn/1.0.3 (FreeBSD)
 by: Andreas Kempe - Sat, 17 Sep 2022 22:29 UTC

["Followup-To:"-huvud satt till news.groups.]
Den 2022-09-14 skrev G.K. <gk@g.k>:
> Serious question. Serious and direct answers only, please.
>
> If there were available open source server software for a new protocol
> similar to NNTP, with optional moderated and secret hierarchies, and a
> built-in mixnet for secret, encrypted hierarchies, which of you would
> install and run the server?
>
> The protocol design would use special cryptographic primitives to enable
> secret hierarchies without revealing the content of the groups therein.
> All peers would route encrypted mix messages by default, unless
> specifically disabled by admin. All mix messages would be broken up into
> standard-size packets and delay switch routed randomly to obfuscate origin.
>
> Initially I would not be shipping with a specialized client. That would
> come later. The initial server would respond to some usenet commands
> from newsreaders like Thunderbird, Pan, etc. But those clients would not
> be able to use the encrypted mix features.
>
> Client proof-of-work would be used to mitigate spam and flood attack.
> Optional signup and authentication would be available for admins who
> don't want random anonymous users and the spam headaches.
>
> The protocol would not interoperate with NNTP servers, which would be
> totally incompatible with the cryptography and routing architecture.
>
> It would be designed for zero-configuration setup and automatic peering
> of public text groups out of the box. Just copy the binary to path, set
> a cron or init script to run it, and done. It would automatically sync
> with randomly-chosen peers and switch to a new peer every few minutes.
>
> How many people would actually run such server? Would there be a demand
> to justify polishing it for production use in the wild?
>

Except for the part about moderated secret hierarchies, I think what
you describe sounds a lot like FMS, Freenet Message System. It is an
NNTP implementation that uses the distributed Freenet [0] network as a
storage back-end.

You create a pseudonym and introduce it on the network by solving
captchas. Moderation is handled by users rating other users and
publishing trust lists.

[0]: https://freenetproject.org/

1
server_pubkey.txt

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