So, here's an interesting tid-bit from the most recent financial
report* from Activision: PC games are more profitable for the company
than console titles.

This probably won't surprise many here; we all know PC games are a
booming business. But it has been a long-held belief that console
games were where the money really was, and PC games were best used for
rushed half-hearted ports. So it's nice to see some real world numbers
putting this myth to rest.

According to Activision, its console games pulled in a "mere" $639
million USD, compared to the $666 million USD for PC games.
Considering the former number includes sales for PS5, XBox and
Nintendo Switch combined, the numbers show that the PC platform is by
far the most profitable.

That said, the mobile division of Activision out-produced both, raking
in $956 million USD.

(all values are for Jan-March 2023)

Sadly, the report does not break down console sales by individual
platform. It does break down how much of the income is derived from
product sales ($695 million USD) versus microtransactions /
subscriptions / etc. ($1688 million USD), but doesn't split that value
out between PCs, console or mobile. The report does note that
microtransaction/etc. revenue were primarily pushed up by MTX
purchases in Diablo Immortal, CoD:MW2, Overwatch 2, and the
ever-profitable Candy Crush franchise.

So, what does this tell us?

Well, since companies - and especially triple-A video game publishers
- always follow the money, there will be an even bigger focus on PC
games over console as the targeted platform, and a much heavier push
towards microtransactions.** The latter is unfortunate, but I can't
say I'm unhappy about the former.

*
https://investor.activision.com/static-files/6c3d95f2-f8b1-4b73-a2c3-1056f13cd8f8
** it also reiterates why Microsoft is so invested in the merger with
ABK. They don't really care about the "Activision Blizzard" part of
the equation, but they have good reason to want the "King.com"
division to jumpstart their own mobile games.

On Tue, 09 May 2023 11:46:46 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

>Well, since companies - and especially triple-A video game publishers
>- always follow the money, there will be an even bigger focus on PC
>games over console as the targeted platform, and a much heavier push
>towards microtransactions.** The latter is unfortunate, but I can't
>say I'm unhappy about the former.

I suspect it means we'll all be gaming on our phones in 5-10 years.

Graphics card makers are opening new markets and diversifying beyond
gaming applications. Our hobby is getting more expensive as these
applications draw more value out of the technology, justifying greater
market value. Nvidia ain't coming back down because they will not need
price incentives.

But phone gaming is making money hand-over-fist. I think most PC gamers
will resist this revenue model to the point where our market becomes
misleadingly irrelevant by the numbers. The bean-counters will assume
that it's less profitable, rather than consider the culture. "Enough
profit" is never enough. They have to maximize value.

That said, I'm willing to see AAA PC game prices jump to MSRP $90 + $45
full DLC subscription. The current price of PC gaming is that there will
be inflation across the board. GOTY can be $100-120 for all I care.

So I look forward to a world of higher sale prices (because why buy on
day 1?) and more (and higher quality) indie gaming. Which is fine because
indie was where it all started, and huge, widely abused dev teams are not
necessarily good news for quality games.

PC gaming is not dead, but the tea leaves read higher prices to me.
Which, honestly, given the nature of the platform (high initial outlay,
over double that of consoles) should easily be absorbed. We have
disposable income, and I'm fine if game makers come for that. I don't
think I'll ever need more than an xx60 Nvidia card going forward. I look
forward to it.

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

On Tue, 09 May 2023 11:09:38 -0500, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>I suspect it means we'll all be gaming on our phones in 5-10 years.

Speak for yourself.

It's not that I disagree with the potential of the hardware on phones.
The amount of processing power these hand-held devices are packing is
simply amazing (honestly, they've impressed me for years). Especially
since few modern games really take full advantage of the superior
hardware on PCs anyway; visuals have been more than 'good enough' for
games for over a decade, and paying a premium for ray-tracing or
whatever really isn't worth it when baked-in lighting techniques look
almost as nice.

But I can't see phone-gaming taking off simply because staring at a
tiny screen using uncomfortable controls is a vastly inferior
experience to what a big screen and a mouse/keyboard can offer.

Oh sure, but maybe we'll just use the phone to render stuff and plug
it into a dock to get the bigscreen / better controls experience?
Sure, that's possible but even then I think discrete PCs have the
advantage... if only because they have more ports and more options.
More varied display options, more storage, etc. just make for a more
useful machine.

And PCs really aren't that expensive anymore. In fact, many phones
have surpassed PCs in price. I have an old Dell Inspiron 3668 from
2020 (one of my luckier curbside finds), and even though it's a boring
office desktop, I'm amazed at how well it runs games. Sure, it's gonna
chug on the newer titles, but for games four or five years old? It's
more than capable (well, sure, I'll have to crank down the visuals a
bit, but still). And it's more than powerful enough if all I want to
use it for is to stream games from a subscription service. And this
thing went for about $400USD new. My phone cost more than that and
it's not half as capable.

Sure, there are idiots who will pay multi-thousands of dollars for a
top-of-the-line PC

(Is somebody talking about me? My ears are burning!)

but that's not a necessary part of gaming anymore. You can get a quite
capable gaming rig for less than $800, or even less if you're willing
to make some sacrifices.

(PCs last longer than phones too, so the savings add up.)

Now, mobile gaming is going to continue to be huge, sure, but that's
because the profits from microtransactions are so immense. But I don't
think it's going to replace discrete PCs anytime soon, anymore than
consoles will. PCs will coexist with mobile for a long time.

(Now, if you were to say that maybe mobile devices would replace
consoles? There we might come to some agreement.)

On Tue, 09 May 2023 12:55:00 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

>On Tue, 09 May 2023 11:09:38 -0500, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>I suspect it means we'll all be gaming on our phones in 5-10 years.
>
>Speak for yourself.
>
>It's not that I disagree with the potential of the hardware on phones.
>The amount of processing power these hand-held devices are packing is
>simply amazing (honestly, they've impressed me for years). Especially
>since few modern games really take full advantage of the superior
>hardware on PCs anyway; visuals have been more than 'good enough' for
>games for over a decade, and paying a premium for ray-tracing or
>whatever really isn't worth it when baked-in lighting techniques look
>almost as nice.
>
>But I can't see phone-gaming taking off simply because staring at a
>tiny screen using uncomfortable controls is a vastly inferior
>experience to what a big screen and a mouse/keyboard can offer.

My suspicion was based on the listed revenues, not that I would want to
play the sorts of games I play on PC with my phone. Not that I play much
of anything on my phone - a few wordplay games - and definitely not
action games.

Luckily, I am a (somewhat lesser) packrat than you, so as long as I own a
PC, I will have games to play.

But will there be any major PC gaming development investments in ten
years? I don't know. Certainly not at today's artificially low prices.
Companies go where the money is. The experience of harnessing the power
of a PC may be seen as "less" profitable, which for today's entertainment
industry may as well be "un"profitable. So I predict companies won't want
to fund enormous devteams in 5-10 years.

Help us indie scene, you're our only hope.

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

On 10/05/2023 01:01, Zaghadka wrote:
> But will there be any major PC gaming development investments in ten
> years? I don't know. Certainly not at today's artificially low prices.
> Companies go where the money is. The experience of harnessing the power
> of a PC may be seen as "less" profitable, which for today's entertainment
> industry may as well be "un"profitable. So I predict companies won't want
> to fund enormous devteams in 5-10 years.

With the current overall state of high budget games on PC's I can't say
it would bother me much if they did disappear and games moved to a lower
average budget.

My bigger concern is if companies try to replicate the mobile scene (MTX
everywhere) on the PC.

On 5/13/2023 3:39 AM, JAB wrote:
> On 10/05/2023 01:01, Zaghadka wrote:
>> But will there be any major PC gaming development investments in ten
>> years? I don't know. Certainly not at today's artificially low prices.
>> Companies go where the money is. The experience of harnessing the power
>> of a PC may be seen as "less" profitable, which for today's entertainment
>> industry may as well be "un"profitable. So I predict companies won't want
>> to fund enormous devteams in 5-10 years.
>
> With the current overall state of high budget games on PC's I can't say
> it would bother me much if they did disappear and games moved to a lower
> average budget.
>
> My bigger concern is if companies try to replicate the mobile scene (MTX
> everywhere) on the PC.

They already are.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

On 13/05/2023 16:09, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> On 5/13/2023 3:39 AM, JAB wrote:
>> On 10/05/2023 01:01, Zaghadka wrote:
>>> But will there be any major PC gaming development investments in ten
>>> years? I don't know. Certainly not at today's artificially low prices.
>>> Companies go where the money is. The experience of harnessing the power
>>> of a PC may be seen as "less" profitable, which for today's
>>> entertainment
>>> industry may as well be "un"profitable. So I predict companies won't
>>> want
>>> to fund enormous devteams in 5-10 years.
>>
>> With the current overall state of high budget games on PC's I can't
>> say it would bother me much if they did disappear and games moved to a
>> lower average budget.
>>
>> My bigger concern is if companies try to replicate the mobile scene
>> (MTX everywhere) on the PC.
>
> They already are.
>

Unfortunately yes but not on the scale of the mobile gamespace.
Hopefully PC gamers are overall prepared to hurl money for any old game
that was knocked up in a couple of months!

On Sun, 14 May 2023 11:32:01 +0100, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:

>On 13/05/2023 16:09, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>> On 5/13/2023 3:39 AM, JAB wrote:
>>> On 10/05/2023 01:01, Zaghadka wrote:
>>>> But will there be any major PC gaming development investments in ten
>>>> years? I don't know. Certainly not at today's artificially low prices.
>>>> Companies go where the money is. The experience of harnessing the power
>>>> of a PC may be seen as "less" profitable, which for today's
>>>> entertainment
>>>> industry may as well be "un"profitable. So I predict companies won't
>>>> want
>>>> to fund enormous devteams in 5-10 years.
>>>
>>> With the current overall state of high budget games on PC's I can't
>>> say it would bother me much if they did disappear and games moved to a
>>> lower average budget.
>>>
>>> My bigger concern is if companies try to replicate the mobile scene
>>> (MTX everywhere) on the PC.
>>
>> They already are.
>>
>
>Unfortunately yes but not on the scale of the mobile gamespace.
>Hopefully PC gamers are overall prepared to hurl money for any old game
>that was knocked up in a couple of months!

(I assume you meant "PC gamers AREN'T prepared to hurl money" ;-)

I don't think PC gaming is going to disappear anymore than PCs will.
So long as the platform survives - and its utility over mobile devices
is too strong for it to ever disappear - people will make games for
it.

On the other hand, mobile gaming will undoubtedly continue to be the
more profitable division, and some of the tactics used in the mobile
gaming sphere will - sadly - bleed over into PC (and console) gaming.
But I don't think it ever will take over quite in the same way. With
PC gaming, you're cocooned in your den and focus on the game. Mobile
gaming, on the other hand, is designed around quick interactions; five
minutes here, fifteen minutes there; after all, it is gaming on the
go, and you're surrounded by distractions. Thus, any interruption has
more of an impact, and so you'll be more open to methods to bypass
them.

A five minute cooldown on a PC is annoying, but when you're playing
for an hour or two, it's bearable. But if you only have ten minutes to
spare for your mobile game, that's half your session wasted. Thus,
people are far more likely to break out the credit card.

Plus, there's a much wider variety of games and developers on PC,
largely because of how much easier it is to get games out to players.
Google and Apple gatekeep their respective platforms (yes, there are
ways to bypass, but more people don't bother), and demand a cut of the
proceeds. But an Indie can pop their game up on their website (or any
of a dozen storefronts) and rake in the cash much easier. This
incentivizes competition, making truly heinous monetizations schemes
less likely

(but sadly not impossible: see "Diablo Immortal)

On 14/05/2023 15:25, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> On Sun, 14 May 2023 11:32:01 +0100, JAB <noway@nochance.com> wrote:
>
>> On 13/05/2023 16:09, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>>> On 5/13/2023 3:39 AM, JAB wrote:
>>>> On 10/05/2023 01:01, Zaghadka wrote:
>>>>> But will there be any major PC gaming development investments in ten
>>>>> years? I don't know. Certainly not at today's artificially low prices.
>>>>> Companies go where the money is. The experience of harnessing the power
>>>>> of a PC may be seen as "less" profitable, which for today's
>>>>> entertainment
>>>>> industry may as well be "un"profitable. So I predict companies won't
>>>>> want
>>>>> to fund enormous devteams in 5-10 years.
>>>>
>>>> With the current overall state of high budget games on PC's I can't
>>>> say it would bother me much if they did disappear and games moved to a
>>>> lower average budget.
>>>>
>>>> My bigger concern is if companies try to replicate the mobile scene
>>>> (MTX everywhere) on the PC.
>>>
>>> They already are.
>>>
>>
>> Unfortunately yes but not on the scale of the mobile gamespace.
>> Hopefully PC gamers are overall prepared to hurl money for any old game
>> that was knocked up in a couple of months!
>
> (I assume you meant "PC gamers AREN'T prepared to hurl money" ;-)
>
> I don't think PC gaming is going to disappear anymore than PCs will.
> So long as the platform survives - and its utility over mobile devices
> is too strong for it to ever disappear - people will make games for
> it.
>
> On the other hand, mobile gaming will undoubtedly continue to be the
> more profitable division, and some of the tactics used in the mobile
> gaming sphere will - sadly - bleed over into PC (and console) gaming.
> But I don't think it ever will take over quite in the same way. With
> PC gaming, you're cocooned in your den and focus on the game. Mobile
> gaming, on the other hand, is designed around quick interactions; five
> minutes here, fifteen minutes there; after all, it is gaming on the
> go, and you're surrounded by distractions. Thus, any interruption has
> more of an impact, and so you'll be more open to methods to bypass
> them.
> > A five minute cooldown on a PC is annoying, but when you're playing
> for an hour or two, it's bearable. But if you only have ten minutes to
> spare for your mobile game, that's half your session wasted. Thus,
> people are far more likely to break out the credit card.
>
> Plus, there's a much wider variety of games and developers on PC,
> largely because of how much easier it is to get games out to players.
> Google and Apple gatekeep their respective platforms (yes, there are
> ways to bypass, but more people don't bother), and demand a cut of the
> proceeds. But an Indie can pop their game up on their website (or any
> of a dozen storefronts) and rake in the cash much easier. This
> incentivizes competition, making truly heinous monetizations schemes
> less likely
>
> (but sadly not impossible: see "Diablo Immortal)
>

Do I think the PC will become as bad as the mobile space, probably not
but predictions for the future are notoriously hard to make although the
good thing is if you happen to be completely wrong then everyone has
forgotten about it and if you happen to be right then you can claim
you're a visionary guru!

What I worry about is the type of games that you see on mobile will
start crowding out other games (this has already happened to an extent
with triple-A titles) especially if dev's with small budgets start
thinking I can put very little effort into making the game a 'good'
experience but instead just slap MTX in it and watch the money rolling
in. A good example is, can't remember the name, a game that took Vampire
Survivors, jazzed up the graphics and then added MTX. Someone did some
estimates of how much money they made and it runs into the millions. My
hope, and expectation really, is that there will still be enough dev's
out there who make games that they want to play.

Where I agree is that currently PC games are generally just different to
mobile games in the way you play them so there's quite a hurdle to get
over that and also the impression I get it that there's also lot of PC
gamers who are very much against excessive MTX.

As a finally thought, part of my dislike of your average mobile games
does come from it's actually a nice platform for a certain type of
games, choose your own text adventures come to mind. Who wants to
develop one of those though?