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computers / comp.sys.mac.misc / Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models

SubjectAuthor
* [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsYour Name
+- Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsJörg Lorenz
`* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan Browne
 +* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsJoerg Lorenz
 |`* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan Browne
 | +* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsdgb (David)
 | |`* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan Browne
 | | `* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsdgb (David)
 | |  +- Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan Browne
 | |  `* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsYour Name
 | |   `* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsdgb (David)
 | |    +* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsJolly Roger
 | |    |+- Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelspothead
 | |    |`* Desktop & Documents Folders in iCloud Drive. - (was- [NEWS] Apple releases M3 Mdgb (David)
 | |    | `* Re: Desktop & Documents Folders in iCloud Drive. - (was- [NEWS]Jolly Roger
 | |    |  `* Re: Desktop & Documents Folders in iCloud Drive. -dgb (David)
 | |    |   +- Re: Desktop & Documents Folders in iCloud Drive. -Alan
 | |    |   `- Re: Desktop & Documents Folders in iCloud Drive. -Jolly Roger
 | |    `* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsYour Name
 | |     `- Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsdgb (David)
 | +* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan
 | |`* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan Browne
 | | +* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan
 | | |+- Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsJörg Lorenz
 | | |`* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan Browne
 | | | `* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan
 | | |  `* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan Browne
 | | |   +* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan
 | | |   |`* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan Browne
 | | |   | `* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan
 | | |   |  `* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan Browne
 | | |   |   `- Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan
 | | |   `* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsBud Frede
 | | |    `* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan Browne
 | | |     +- Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsBud Frede
 | | |     `* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan
 | | |      `* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan Browne
 | | |       `* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan
 | | |        `* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan Browne
 | | |         `* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan
 | | |          `* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan Browne
 | | |           `- Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan
 | | `* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsJörg Lorenz
 | |  `* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan Browne
 | |   `* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan
 | |    `* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan Browne
 | |     `* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan
 | |      `* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan Browne
 | |       `- Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan
 | `* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsJörg Lorenz
 |  `* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan Browne
 |   `- Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan
 `* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsTyrone
  +* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan Browne
  |+* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan
  ||`* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan Browne
  || `- Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan
  |`- Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsBud Frede
  `- Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsBud Frede

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[NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models

<us5o70$3dllq$1@dont-email.me>

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From: YourN...@YourISP.com (Your Name)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc, comp.sys.mac.system
Subject: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2024 13:15:28 +1300
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 by: Your Name - Tue, 5 Mar 2024 00:15 UTC

New models of a Mac that is rather pointless. It's now even less
differentiated from the MacBook Pro models. Apple should just drop the
"Air" and "Pro" names and have a single "MacBook" product line. :-\

Apple Announces New MacBook Air Models With M3 Chip
<https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/04/apple-announces-m3-macbook-air/>

Apple Quietly Releases New M3 MacBook Air Lineup

<https://www.idropnews.com/news/apple-quietly-releases-new-m3-macbook-air-lineup/209627/>

Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models

<us6dtk$3kie9$1@dont-email.me>

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From: hugyb...@gmx.net (Jörg Lorenz)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system
Subject: Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2024 07:25:56 +0100
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 by: Jörg Lorenz - Tue, 5 Mar 2024 06:25 UTC

Am 05.03.24 um 01:15 schrieb Your Name:
>
> New models of a Mac that is rather pointless. It's now even less
> differentiated from the MacBook Pro models. Apple should just drop the
> "Air" and "Pro" names and have a single "MacBook" product line. :-\

The differentiator has never been the CPU.

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models

<xLFFN.343717$yEgf.162517@fx09.iad>

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From: bitbuc...@blackhole.com (Alan Browne)
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 by: Alan Browne - Tue, 5 Mar 2024 14:12 UTC

On 2024-03-04 19:15, Your Name wrote:
>
> New models of a Mac that is rather pointless. It's now even less
> differentiated from the MacBook Pro models. Apple should just drop the
> "Air" and "Pro" names and have a single "MacBook" product line.  :-\
>
>
>    Apple Announces New MacBook Air Models With M3 Chip
>    <https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/04/apple-announces-m3-macbook-air/>
>
>    Apple Quietly Releases New M3 MacBook Air Lineup
> <https://www.idropnews.com/news/apple-quietly-releases-new-m3-macbook-air-lineup/209627/>

Look at the options and memory (RAM and storage) for the real story.

The low end version of this has 8GB of RAM. Wholly inadequate.
512 GB of SSD. Barely adequate.

16 GB is barely adequate and 24 GB is the most you can get. And
compared to commodity value of memory (even of this level), it's grossly
expensive. Worse for SSD.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models

<us7a3i$3q2nu$1@dont-email.me>

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From: hugyb...@gmx.net (Joerg Lorenz)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system
Subject: Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2024 15:26:58 +0100
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 by: Joerg Lorenz - Tue, 5 Mar 2024 14:26 UTC

On 05.03.24 15:12, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2024-03-04 19:15, Your Name wrote:
>>
>> New models of a Mac that is rather pointless. It's now even less
>> differentiated from the MacBook Pro models. Apple should just drop the
>> "Air" and "Pro" names and have a single "MacBook" product line.  :-\
>>
>>
>>    Apple Announces New MacBook Air Models With M3 Chip
>>    <https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/04/apple-announces-m3-macbook-air/>
>>
>>    Apple Quietly Releases New M3 MacBook Air Lineup
>> <https://www.idropnews.com/news/apple-quietly-releases-new-m3-macbook-air-lineup/209627/>
>
> Look at the options and memory (RAM and storage) for the real story.
>
> The low end version of this has 8GB of RAM. Wholly inadequate.
> 512 GB of SSD. Barely adequate.

Your contribution in this thread: Completely inadequate and no
understanding of the Silicon-Architecture at all.

--
"Manus manum lavat."

Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models

<dRCdneqOvtB9x3r4nZ2dnZfqn_GdnZ2d@supernews.com>

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 by: Tyrone - Tue, 5 Mar 2024 17:48 UTC

On Mar 5, 2024 at 9:12:45 AM EST, "Alan Browne" <bitbucket@blackhole.com>
wrote:

> On 2024-03-04 19:15, Your Name wrote:
>>
>> New models of a Mac that is rather pointless. It's now even less
>> differentiated from the MacBook Pro models. Apple should just drop the
>> "Air" and "Pro" names and have a single "MacBook" product line. :-\
>>
>>
>> Apple Announces New MacBook Air Models With M3 Chip
>> <https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/04/apple-announces-m3-macbook-air/>
>>
>> Apple Quietly Releases New M3 MacBook Air Lineup
>> <https://www.idropnews.com/news/apple-quietly-releases-new-m3-macbook-air-lineup/209627/>
>
> Look at the options and memory (RAM and storage) for the real story.

The "real story" being that the Air is the low end MacBook. Not everyone
needs a $4000 laptop.

> The low end version of this has 8GB of RAM. Wholly inadequate.
> 512 GB of SSD. Barely adequate.

For you perhaps. More than adequate for most people. Again, this is the low
end MacBook.

> 16 GB is barely adequate and 24 GB is the most you can get. And
> compared to commodity value of memory (even of this level), it's grossly
> expensive. Worse for SSD.

Except that Arm Macs don't use commodity anything. The RAM/CPUs/GPUs/NPUs/SSD
are all custom and integrated onto a single chip. So the performance beats
any commodity RAM plugged into slots over here and a commodity SSD plugged
into another slot way over there.

All while using way less power too.

Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models

<cKKFN.35945$hN14.2039@fx17.iad>

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<us7a3i$3q2nu$1@dont-email.me>
From: bitbuc...@blackhole.com (Alan Browne)
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 by: Alan Browne - Tue, 5 Mar 2024 19:52 UTC

On 2024-03-05 09:26, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
> On 05.03.24 15:12, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2024-03-04 19:15, Your Name wrote:
>>>
>>> New models of a Mac that is rather pointless. It's now even less
>>> differentiated from the MacBook Pro models. Apple should just drop the
>>> "Air" and "Pro" names and have a single "MacBook" product line.  :-\
>>>
>>>
>>>    Apple Announces New MacBook Air Models With M3 Chip
>>>    <https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/04/apple-announces-m3-macbook-air/>
>>>
>>>    Apple Quietly Releases New M3 MacBook Air Lineup
>>> <https://www.idropnews.com/news/apple-quietly-releases-new-m3-macbook-air-lineup/209627/>
>>
>> Look at the options and memory (RAM and storage) for the real story.
>>
>> The low end version of this has 8GB of RAM. Wholly inadequate.
>> 512 GB of SSD. Barely adequate.
>
> Your contribution in this thread: Completely inadequate and no
> understanding of the Silicon-Architecture at all.

Since I have an M3 iMac and it uses more memory for the same load of
apps compared to my i7 iMac, my understanding of it exceeds yours on
this - as it does on most subjects.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models

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From: bitbuc...@blackhole.com (Alan Browne)
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 by: Alan Browne - Tue, 5 Mar 2024 20:02 UTC

On 2024-03-05 12:48, Tyrone wrote:
> On Mar 5, 2024 at 9:12:45 AM EST, "Alan Browne" <bitbucket@blackhole.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2024-03-04 19:15, Your Name wrote:
>>>
>>> New models of a Mac that is rather pointless. It's now even less
>>> differentiated from the MacBook Pro models. Apple should just drop the
>>> "Air" and "Pro" names and have a single "MacBook" product line. :-\
>>>
>>>
>>> Apple Announces New MacBook Air Models With M3 Chip
>>> <https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/04/apple-announces-m3-macbook-air/>
>>>
>>> Apple Quietly Releases New M3 MacBook Air Lineup
>>> <https://www.idropnews.com/news/apple-quietly-releases-new-m3-macbook-air-lineup/209627/>
>>
>> Look at the options and memory (RAM and storage) for the real story.
>
> The "real story" being that the Air is the low end MacBook. Not everyone
> needs a $4000 laptop.
>
>> The low end version of this has 8GB of RAM. Wholly inadequate.
>> 512 GB of SSD. Barely adequate.
>
> For you perhaps. More than adequate for most people. Again, this is the low
> end MacBook.
>
>> 16 GB is barely adequate and 24 GB is the most you can get. And
>> compared to commodity value of memory (even of this level), it's grossly
>> expensive. Worse for SSD.
>
> Except that Arm Macs don't use commodity anything. The RAM/CPUs/GPUs/NPUs/SSD
> are all custom and integrated onto a single chip. So the performance beats

The RAM is not integrated onto the chip. It is soldered onto the chip
carrier. It is commodity LPDDR5 memory from a memory supplier. In the
case of my M3 iMac, the supplier is Micron[1].

Indeed some people have changed the RAM on their Apple Silicon Macs by
heating up the RAM carriers and putting in larger RAM of the same kind.
(This requires a lot of skill and the proper solder masks to carry off).

The SSDs are completely separate chip carriers soldered to the motherboard.

RAM performance is better due to it being directly mapped to the various
IO functions, as such many operations need only pass a pointer to a
memory block for output or input rather than shuffle blocks of data
between device and system memory (or v-v). This accounts for a large
amount of performance gain.

However, when I work I always have the same basic list of apps loaded at
all times. With the i7 iMac it uses less memory than the M3 iMac at any
given time (on the order of 2 GB more).

[1] From System Information | Memory:
Memory: 24 GB
Type: LPDDR5
Manufacturer: Micron

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models

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From: dav...@nomail.afraid.org (dgb (David))
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Subject: Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models
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 by: dgb (David) - Tue, 5 Mar 2024 20:42 UTC

On 5 Mar 2024 at 19:52:40 GMT, "Alan Browne" <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

> Since I have an M3 iMac and it uses more memory for the same load of
> apps compared to my i7 iMac, my understanding of it exceeds yours on
> this - as it does on most subjects.

I have 27 inch iMac. I've looked and played with a new M3 iMac in our local
Apple Store.

When you have each one of them there in front of you, regardless of the
technicalities, which screen do you prefer to be sitting in front of? How does
each make you /feel/ please?

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 by: Alan Browne - Tue, 5 Mar 2024 21:17 UTC

On 2024-03-05 15:42, dgb (David) wrote:
> On 5 Mar 2024 at 19:52:40 GMT, "Alan Browne" <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>
>> Since I have an M3 iMac and it uses more memory for the same load of
>> apps compared to my i7 iMac, my understanding of it exceeds yours on
>> this - as it does on most subjects.
>
> I have 27 inch iMac. I've looked and played with a new M3 iMac in our local
> Apple Store.
>
> When you have each one of them there in front of you, regardless of the
> technicalities, which screen do you prefer to be sitting in front of? How does
> each make you /feel/ please?

Hard to answer.

The resolution quality of the M3 iMac is to the point where pixels
cannot be resolved with the naked eye. It is magnificently crisp and
contrast perfect at the default setting of 2240 x 1260. All fonts look
perfectly smooth. Very easy on the eyes.

It is usable at 2560 x 1440, but only if the screen is pretty close (at
least with my eyes - I don't need glasses to read, but this rez on the
24" iMac is just a little too tight (unless I would increase font sizes
which would be pretty much a return to the other resolution)). This is
likely more a personal thing so YMMV.

4480 x 2520 is not usable, really. Again one could blow up the font
sizes for reading - but not much point to it. Perhaps in some graphics
usages and workflow this would be a useful resolution.

I would have preferred 27". On the i7 iMac 27", 2560x1440 and it's very
nice. Lean in and you can see pixels. Lean in mind you. It's a very
nice display on that old 2012 iMac (not Retina). For all non-video
work, the 2012 iMac suited my needs just fine.

Still a killer processor. But.

When editing/rendering 1080p video of any length, it is too tedious.
Such on the M3 iMac is a whiz. (Though I still wish it was a higher
spec in number of cores). As a benchmark, it is almost 3x faster to
Handbrake a video on the M3 v. the i7 iMac (2012).

At some point I will gut the 27" of everything but the power supply and
display panel and add an adaptor to turn it into an HDMI or DisplayPort
display.

So in the end one makes adjustments to "real estate" on the screen,
sizing of App windows, what goes to the side display (which I've changed
to a Samsung 27" that I normally use for home lab use (Rasp Pi
development). It's so wide, that I only use the right 60% of it when
using this iMac M3).

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models

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From: nuh...@nope.com (Alan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system
Subject: Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models
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 by: Alan - Tue, 5 Mar 2024 21:50 UTC

On 2024-03-05 11:52, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2024-03-05 09:26, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>> On 05.03.24 15:12, Alan Browne wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-04 19:15, Your Name wrote:
>>>>
>>>> New models of a Mac that is rather pointless. It's now even less
>>>> differentiated from the MacBook Pro models. Apple should just drop the
>>>> "Air" and "Pro" names and have a single "MacBook" product line.  :-\
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      Apple Announces New MacBook Air Models With M3 Chip
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/04/apple-announces-m3-macbook-air/>
>>>>
>>>>      Apple Quietly Releases New M3 MacBook Air Lineup
>>>> <https://www.idropnews.com/news/apple-quietly-releases-new-m3-macbook-air-lineup/209627/>
>>>
>>> Look at the options and memory (RAM and storage) for the real story.
>>>
>>> The low end version of this has 8GB of RAM.  Wholly inadequate.
>>> 512 GB of SSD.  Barely adequate.
>>
>> Your contribution in this thread: Completely inadequate and no
>> understanding of the Silicon-Architecture at all.
>
> Since I have an M3 iMac and it uses more memory for the same load of
> apps compared to my i7 iMac, my understanding of it exceeds yours on
> this - as it does on most subjects.
>

Post the screenshots.

Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models

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Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system
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 by: Alan - Tue, 5 Mar 2024 21:51 UTC

On 2024-03-05 12:02, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2024-03-05 12:48, Tyrone wrote:
>> On Mar 5, 2024 at 9:12:45 AM EST, "Alan Browne" <bitbucket@blackhole.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2024-03-04 19:15, Your Name wrote:
>>>>
>>>> New models of a Mac that is rather pointless. It's now even less
>>>> differentiated from the MacBook Pro models. Apple should just drop the
>>>> "Air" and "Pro" names and have a single "MacBook" product line.  :-\
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>      Apple Announces New MacBook Air Models With M3 Chip
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/04/apple-announces-m3-macbook-air/>
>>>>
>>>>      Apple Quietly Releases New M3 MacBook Air Lineup
>>>> <https://www.idropnews.com/news/apple-quietly-releases-new-m3-macbook-air-lineup/209627/>
>>>
>>> Look at the options and memory (RAM and storage) for the real story.
>>
>> The "real story" being that the Air is the low end MacBook.  Not everyone
>> needs a $4000 laptop.
>>
>>> The low end version of this has 8GB of RAM.  Wholly inadequate.
>>> 512 GB of SSD.  Barely adequate.
>>
>> For you perhaps. More than adequate for most people. Again, this is
>> the low
>> end MacBook.
>>
>>> 16 GB is barely adequate and 24 GB is the most you can get.  And
>>> compared to commodity value of memory (even of this level), it's grossly
>>> expensive.  Worse for SSD.
>>
>> Except that Arm Macs don't use commodity anything. The
>> RAM/CPUs/GPUs/NPUs/SSD
>> are all custom and integrated onto a single chip.  So the performance
>> beats
>
> The RAM is not integrated onto the chip.  It is soldered onto the chip
> carrier.  It is commodity LPDDR5 memory from a memory supplier.  In the
> case of my M3 iMac, the supplier is Micron[1].
>
> Indeed some people have changed the RAM on their Apple Silicon Macs by
> heating up the RAM carriers and putting in larger RAM of the same kind.
> (This requires a lot of skill and the proper solder masks to carry off).
>
> The SSDs are completely separate chip carriers soldered to the motherboard.
>
> RAM performance is better due to it being directly mapped to the various
> IO functions, as such many operations need only pass a pointer to a
> memory block for output or input rather than shuffle blocks of data
> between device and system memory (or v-v).  This accounts for a large
> amount of performance gain.
>
> However, when I work I always have the same basic list of apps loaded at
> all times.  With the i7 iMac it uses less memory than the M3 iMac at any
> given time (on the order of 2 GB more).
>
> [1] From System Information | Memory:
>   Memory:    24 GB
>   Type:    LPDDR5
>   Manufacturer:    Micron
>

1. Do they have the same amount of RAM?

2. Do they run the same version of macOS?

Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models

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Subject: Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models
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 by: dgb (David) - Tue, 5 Mar 2024 22:07 UTC

On 5 Mar 2024 at 21:17:11 GMT, "Alan Browne" <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

> On 2024-03-05 15:42, dgb (David) wrote:
>> On 5 Mar 2024 at 19:52:40 GMT, "Alan Browne" <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Since I have an M3 iMac and it uses more memory for the same load of
>>> apps compared to my i7 iMac, my understanding of it exceeds yours on
>>> this - as it does on most subjects.
>>
>> I have 27 inch iMac. I've looked and played with a new M3 iMac in our local
>> Apple Store.
>>
>> When you have each one of them there in front of you, regardless of the
>> technicalities, which screen do you prefer to be sitting in front of? How does
>> each make you /feel/ please?
>
> Hard to answer.
>
> The resolution quality of the M3 iMac is to the point where pixels
> cannot be resolved with the naked eye. It is magnificently crisp and
> contrast perfect at the default setting of 2240 x 1260. All fonts look
> perfectly smooth. Very easy on the eyes.
>
> It is usable at 2560 x 1440, but only if the screen is pretty close (at
> least with my eyes - I don't need glasses to read, but this rez on the
> 24" iMac is just a little too tight (unless I would increase font sizes
> which would be pretty much a return to the other resolution)). This is
> likely more a personal thing so YMMV.
>
> 4480 x 2520 is not usable, really. Again one could blow up the font
> sizes for reading - but not much point to it. Perhaps in some graphics
> usages and workflow this would be a useful resolution.
>
> I would have preferred 27". On the i7 iMac 27", 2560x1440 and it's very
> nice. Lean in and you can see pixels. Lean in mind you. It's a very
> nice display on that old 2012 iMac (not Retina). For all non-video
> work, the 2012 iMac suited my needs just fine.
>
> Still a killer processor. But.
>
> When editing/rendering 1080p video of any length, it is too tedious.
> Such on the M3 iMac is a whiz. (Though I still wish it was a higher
> spec in number of cores). As a benchmark, it is almost 3x faster to
> Handbrake a video on the M3 v. the i7 iMac (2012).
>
> At some point I will gut the 27" of everything but the power supply and
> display panel and add an adaptor to turn it into an HDMI or DisplayPort
> display.
>
> So in the end one makes adjustments to "real estate" on the screen,
> sizing of App windows, what goes to the side display (which I've changed
> to a Samsung 27" that I normally use for home lab use (Rasp Pi
> development). It's so wide, that I only use the right 60% of it when
> using this iMac M3).

Thank you so much for all the interesting detail, Alan.

My own is a 2017 iMac with a Retina display and I really don't want to change
it.
However, I'm using macOS Ventura 13.6.4 and cannot move on to Sonoma.
I'm living in the hope that Apple may one day provide another 27 inch desktop
computer before this one dies! I'm also using an old 24 inch iMac to run Linux
Mint and it does this quite well.
I'm impressed with your intention to repurpose your old iMac!
Good for you! :-)

(ACW added for info to others)

--
David

Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models

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 by: Alan Browne - Tue, 5 Mar 2024 22:48 UTC

On 2024-03-05 16:51, Alan wrote:
> On 2024-03-05 12:02, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2024-03-05 12:48, Tyrone wrote:
>>> On Mar 5, 2024 at 9:12:45 AM EST, "Alan Browne"
>>> <bitbucket@blackhole.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2024-03-04 19:15, Your Name wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> New models of a Mac that is rather pointless. It's now even less
>>>>> differentiated from the MacBook Pro models. Apple should just drop the
>>>>> "Air" and "Pro" names and have a single "MacBook" product line.  :-\
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>      Apple Announces New MacBook Air Models With M3 Chip
>>>>> <https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/04/apple-announces-m3-macbook-air/>
>>>>>
>>>>>      Apple Quietly Releases New M3 MacBook Air Lineup
>>>>> <https://www.idropnews.com/news/apple-quietly-releases-new-m3-macbook-air-lineup/209627/>
>>>>
>>>> Look at the options and memory (RAM and storage) for the real story.
>>>
>>> The "real story" being that the Air is the low end MacBook.  Not
>>> everyone
>>> needs a $4000 laptop.
>>>
>>>> The low end version of this has 8GB of RAM.  Wholly inadequate.
>>>> 512 GB of SSD.  Barely adequate.
>>>
>>> For you perhaps. More than adequate for most people. Again, this is
>>> the low
>>> end MacBook.
>>>
>>>> 16 GB is barely adequate and 24 GB is the most you can get.  And
>>>> compared to commodity value of memory (even of this level), it's
>>>> grossly
>>>> expensive.  Worse for SSD.
>>>
>>> Except that Arm Macs don't use commodity anything. The
>>> RAM/CPUs/GPUs/NPUs/SSD
>>> are all custom and integrated onto a single chip.  So the performance
>>> beats
>>
>> The RAM is not integrated onto the chip.  It is soldered onto the chip
>> carrier.  It is commodity LPDDR5 memory from a memory supplier.  In
>> the case of my M3 iMac, the supplier is Micron[1].
>>
>> Indeed some people have changed the RAM on their Apple Silicon Macs by
>> heating up the RAM carriers and putting in larger RAM of the same
>> kind. (This requires a lot of skill and the proper solder masks to
>> carry off).
>>
>> The SSDs are completely separate chip carriers soldered to the
>> motherboard.
>>
>> RAM performance is better due to it being directly mapped to the
>> various IO functions, as such many operations need only pass a pointer
>> to a memory block for output or input rather than shuffle blocks of
>> data between device and system memory (or v-v).  This accounts for a
>> large amount of performance gain.
>>
>> However, when I work I always have the same basic list of apps loaded
>> at all times.  With the i7 iMac it uses less memory than the M3 iMac
>> at any given time (on the order of 2 GB more).
>>
>> [1] From System Information | Memory:
>>    Memory:    24 GB
>>    Type:    LPDDR5
>>    Manufacturer:    Micron
>>
>
> 1. Do they have the same amount of RAM?

Yep. 24GB.
>
> 2. Do they run the same version of macOS?

Nope. The i7 is a few versions back. Can't go further. I see where
you're going with that but it would not account for 1 .. 2 GB of RAM.

That said, the claim with Apple Silicon was that you didn't need near as
much memory. That is BS.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models

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From: bitbuc...@blackhole.com (Alan Browne)
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 by: Alan Browne - Tue, 5 Mar 2024 23:08 UTC

On 2024-03-05 17:07, dgb (David) wrote:
> On 5 Mar 2024 at 21:17:11 GMT, "Alan Browne" <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2024-03-05 15:42, dgb (David) wrote:
>>> On 5 Mar 2024 at 19:52:40 GMT, "Alan Browne" <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Since I have an M3 iMac and it uses more memory for the same load of
>>>> apps compared to my i7 iMac, my understanding of it exceeds yours on
>>>> this - as it does on most subjects.
>>>
>>> I have 27 inch iMac. I've looked and played with a new M3 iMac in our local
>>> Apple Store.
>>>
>>> When you have each one of them there in front of you, regardless of the
>>> technicalities, which screen do you prefer to be sitting in front of? How does
>>> each make you /feel/ please?
>>
>> Hard to answer.
>>
>> The resolution quality of the M3 iMac is to the point where pixels
>> cannot be resolved with the naked eye. It is magnificently crisp and
>> contrast perfect at the default setting of 2240 x 1260. All fonts look
>> perfectly smooth. Very easy on the eyes.
>>
>> It is usable at 2560 x 1440, but only if the screen is pretty close (at
>> least with my eyes - I don't need glasses to read, but this rez on the
>> 24" iMac is just a little too tight (unless I would increase font sizes
>> which would be pretty much a return to the other resolution)). This is
>> likely more a personal thing so YMMV.
>>
>> 4480 x 2520 is not usable, really. Again one could blow up the font
>> sizes for reading - but not much point to it. Perhaps in some graphics
>> usages and workflow this would be a useful resolution.
>>
>> I would have preferred 27". On the i7 iMac 27", 2560x1440 and it's very
>> nice. Lean in and you can see pixels. Lean in mind you. It's a very
>> nice display on that old 2012 iMac (not Retina). For all non-video
>> work, the 2012 iMac suited my needs just fine.
>>
>> Still a killer processor. But.
>>
>> When editing/rendering 1080p video of any length, it is too tedious.
>> Such on the M3 iMac is a whiz. (Though I still wish it was a higher
>> spec in number of cores). As a benchmark, it is almost 3x faster to
>> Handbrake a video on the M3 v. the i7 iMac (2012).
>>
>> At some point I will gut the 27" of everything but the power supply and
>> display panel and add an adaptor to turn it into an HDMI or DisplayPort
>> display.
>>
>> So in the end one makes adjustments to "real estate" on the screen,
>> sizing of App windows, what goes to the side display (which I've changed
>> to a Samsung 27" that I normally use for home lab use (Rasp Pi
>> development). It's so wide, that I only use the right 60% of it when
>> using this iMac M3).
>
> Thank you so much for all the interesting detail, Alan.

Hope it helps you.

>
> My own is a 2017 iMac with a Retina display and I really don't want to change
> it.

I'd consider that to be a pretty good rig.

There are ways to load up to date OS' on older machines such as:
https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/

(I'm not sure if that is the best way - do YOUR research before diving
in. More importantly do a full backup first!).

> However, I'm using macOS Ventura 13.6.4 and cannot move on to Sonoma.
> I'm living in the hope that Apple may one day provide another 27 inch desktop
> computer before this one dies! I'm also using an old 24 inch iMac to run Linux
> Mint and it does this quite well.

I'm out of Linux projects at present. OTOH, I can't get Ubuntu to run
properly on the M3 under Fusion. (It works - but I can't drag files
into or out of it. Will need to network it instead).

My Pi project can be cross-compiled on the i7 or M3, so don't need Linux
much.

> I'm impressed with your intention to repurpose your old iMac!
> Good for you! :-)

It's a nice display! And maybe someone will want the motherboard and
RAM from the iMac. (I doubt it...).

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models

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 by: Alan Browne - Tue, 5 Mar 2024 23:22 UTC

On 2024-03-05 16:50, Alan wrote:
> On 2024-03-05 11:52, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2024-03-05 09:26, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>> On 05.03.24 15:12, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>> On 2024-03-04 19:15, Your Name wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> New models of a Mac that is rather pointless. It's now even less
>>>>> differentiated from the MacBook Pro models. Apple should just drop the
>>>>> "Air" and "Pro" names and have a single "MacBook" product line.  :-\
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>      Apple Announces New MacBook Air Models With M3 Chip
>>>>> <https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/04/apple-announces-m3-macbook-air/>
>>>>>
>>>>>      Apple Quietly Releases New M3 MacBook Air Lineup
>>>>> <https://www.idropnews.com/news/apple-quietly-releases-new-m3-macbook-air-lineup/209627/>
>>>>
>>>> Look at the options and memory (RAM and storage) for the real story.
>>>>
>>>> The low end version of this has 8GB of RAM.  Wholly inadequate.
>>>> 512 GB of SSD.  Barely adequate.
>>>
>>> Your contribution in this thread: Completely inadequate and no
>>> understanding of the Silicon-Architecture at all.
>>
>> Since I have an M3 iMac and it uses more memory for the same load of
>> apps compared to my i7 iMac, my understanding of it exceeds yours on
>> this - as it does on most subjects.
>>
>
> Post the screenshots.

Go buy an Apple Silicon Mac and find out for yourself.

Or look up the numerous articles online that discuss the same thing.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models

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From: nuh...@nope.com (Alan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system
Subject: Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models
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 by: Alan - Wed, 6 Mar 2024 00:17 UTC

On 2024-03-05 15:22, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2024-03-05 16:50, Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-03-05 11:52, Alan Browne wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-05 09:26, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>>> On 05.03.24 15:12, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-03-04 19:15, Your Name wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> New models of a Mac that is rather pointless. It's now even less
>>>>>> differentiated from the MacBook Pro models. Apple should just drop
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> "Air" and "Pro" names and have a single "MacBook" product line.  :-\
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      Apple Announces New MacBook Air Models With M3 Chip
>>>>>> <https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/04/apple-announces-m3-macbook-air/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      Apple Quietly Releases New M3 MacBook Air Lineup
>>>>>> <https://www.idropnews.com/news/apple-quietly-releases-new-m3-macbook-air-lineup/209627/>
>>>>>
>>>>> Look at the options and memory (RAM and storage) for the real story.
>>>>>
>>>>> The low end version of this has 8GB of RAM.  Wholly inadequate.
>>>>> 512 GB of SSD.  Barely adequate.
>>>>
>>>> Your contribution in this thread: Completely inadequate and no
>>>> understanding of the Silicon-Architecture at all.
>>>
>>> Since I have an M3 iMac and it uses more memory for the same load of
>>> apps compared to my i7 iMac, my understanding of it exceeds yours on
>>> this - as it does on most subjects.
>>>
>>
>> Post the screenshots.
>
> Go buy an Apple Silicon Mac and find out for yourself.
>
> Or look up the numerous articles online that discuss the same thing.
>

Sorry, but given how easy it would be to post screenshots and you
punking out on doing so...

....I'll take what you've claimed with a (large) grain of salt.

:-)

Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models

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 by: Alan - Wed, 6 Mar 2024 00:18 UTC

On 2024-03-05 14:48, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2024-03-05 16:51, Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-03-05 12:02, Alan Browne wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-05 12:48, Tyrone wrote:
>>>> On Mar 5, 2024 at 9:12:45 AM EST, "Alan Browne"
>>>> <bitbucket@blackhole.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2024-03-04 19:15, Your Name wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> New models of a Mac that is rather pointless. It's now even less
>>>>>> differentiated from the MacBook Pro models. Apple should just drop
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> "Air" and "Pro" names and have a single "MacBook" product line.  :-\
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      Apple Announces New MacBook Air Models With M3 Chip
>>>>>> <https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/04/apple-announces-m3-macbook-air/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      Apple Quietly Releases New M3 MacBook Air Lineup
>>>>>> <https://www.idropnews.com/news/apple-quietly-releases-new-m3-macbook-air-lineup/209627/>
>>>>>
>>>>> Look at the options and memory (RAM and storage) for the real story.
>>>>
>>>> The "real story" being that the Air is the low end MacBook.  Not
>>>> everyone
>>>> needs a $4000 laptop.
>>>>
>>>>> The low end version of this has 8GB of RAM.  Wholly inadequate.
>>>>> 512 GB of SSD.  Barely adequate.
>>>>
>>>> For you perhaps. More than adequate for most people. Again, this is
>>>> the low
>>>> end MacBook.
>>>>
>>>>> 16 GB is barely adequate and 24 GB is the most you can get.  And
>>>>> compared to commodity value of memory (even of this level), it's
>>>>> grossly
>>>>> expensive.  Worse for SSD.
>>>>
>>>> Except that Arm Macs don't use commodity anything. The
>>>> RAM/CPUs/GPUs/NPUs/SSD
>>>> are all custom and integrated onto a single chip.  So the
>>>> performance beats
>>>
>>> The RAM is not integrated onto the chip.  It is soldered onto the
>>> chip carrier.  It is commodity LPDDR5 memory from a memory supplier.
>>> In the case of my M3 iMac, the supplier is Micron[1].
>>>
>>> Indeed some people have changed the RAM on their Apple Silicon Macs
>>> by heating up the RAM carriers and putting in larger RAM of the same
>>> kind. (This requires a lot of skill and the proper solder masks to
>>> carry off).
>>>
>>> The SSDs are completely separate chip carriers soldered to the
>>> motherboard.
>>>
>>> RAM performance is better due to it being directly mapped to the
>>> various IO functions, as such many operations need only pass a
>>> pointer to a memory block for output or input rather than shuffle
>>> blocks of data between device and system memory (or v-v).  This
>>> accounts for a large amount of performance gain.
>>>
>>> However, when I work I always have the same basic list of apps loaded
>>> at all times.  With the i7 iMac it uses less memory than the M3 iMac
>>> at any given time (on the order of 2 GB more).
>>>
>>> [1] From System Information | Memory:
>>>    Memory:    24 GB
>>>    Type:    LPDDR5
>>>    Manufacturer:    Micron
>>>
>>
>> 1. Do they have the same amount of RAM?
>
> Yep.  24GB.
>>
>> 2. Do they run the same version of macOS?
>
> Nope.  The i7 is a few versions back.  Can't go further.   I see where
> you're going with that but it would not account for 1 .. 2 GB of RAM.
>

It very well could.

> That said, the claim with Apple Silicon was that you didn't need near as
> much memory.  That is BS.

So post the screenshots.

Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models

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 by: Your Name - Wed, 6 Mar 2024 04:45 UTC

On 2024-03-05 22:07:29 +0000, dgb (David) said:

> On 5 Mar 2024 at 21:17:11 GMT, "Alan Browne" <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2024-03-05 15:42, dgb (David) wrote:
>>> On 5 Mar 2024 at 19:52:40 GMT, "Alan Browne" <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Since I have an M3 iMac and it uses more memory for the same load of
>>>> apps compared to my i7 iMac, my understanding of it exceeds yours on
>>>> this - as it does on most subjects.
>>>
>>> I have 27 inch iMac. I've looked and played with a new M3 iMac in our local
>>> Apple Store.
>>>
>>> When you have each one of them there in front of you, regardless of the
>>> technicalities, which screen do you prefer to be sitting in front of? How does
>>> each make you /feel/ please?
>>
>> Hard to answer.
>>
>> The resolution quality of the M3 iMac is to the point where pixels
>> cannot be resolved with the naked eye. It is magnificently crisp and
>> contrast perfect at the default setting of 2240 x 1260. All fonts look
>> perfectly smooth. Very easy on the eyes.
>>
>> It is usable at 2560 x 1440, but only if the screen is pretty close (at
>> least with my eyes - I don't need glasses to read, but this rez on the
>> 24" iMac is just a little too tight (unless I would increase font sizes
>> which would be pretty much a return to the other resolution)). This is
>> likely more a personal thing so YMMV.
>>
>> 4480 x 2520 is not usable, really. Again one could blow up the font
>> sizes for reading - but not much point to it. Perhaps in some graphics
>> usages and workflow this would be a useful resolution.
>>
>> I would have preferred 27". On the i7 iMac 27", 2560x1440 and it's very
>> nice. Lean in and you can see pixels. Lean in mind you. It's a very
>> nice display on that old 2012 iMac (not Retina). For all non-video
>> work, the 2012 iMac suited my needs just fine.
>>
>> Still a killer processor. But.
>>
>> When editing/rendering 1080p video of any length, it is too tedious.
>> Such on the M3 iMac is a whiz. (Though I still wish it was a higher
>> spec in number of cores). As a benchmark, it is almost 3x faster to
>> Handbrake a video on the M3 v. the i7 iMac (2012).
>>
>> At some point I will gut the 27" of everything but the power supply and
>> display panel and add an adaptor to turn it into an HDMI or DisplayPort
>> display.
>>
>> So in the end one makes adjustments to "real estate" on the screen,
>> sizing of App windows, what goes to the side display (which I've changed
>> to a Samsung 27" that I normally use for home lab use (Rasp Pi
>> development). It's so wide, that I only use the right 60% of it when
>> using this iMac M3).
>
> Thank you so much for all the interesting detail, Alan.
>
> My own is a 2017 iMac with a Retina display and I really don't want to change
> it.
> However, I'm using macOS Ventura 13.6.4 and cannot move on to Sonoma.
> I'm living in the hope that Apple may one day provide another 27 inch desktop
> computer before this one dies! I'm also using an old 24 inch iMac to run Linux
> Mint and it does this quite well.
> I'm impressed with your intention to repurpose your old iMac!
> Good for you! :-)
>
> (ACW added for info to others)

The current reports say Apple are not planning on making a new 27in
iMac or iMac Pro any time soon. There are dubious rumours that pop up
from time to time, including going to 32in iMac.

You could of course buy a Mac Mini or Mac Studio and add whatever
screen size you want. Not an "all-in-one", but depending on the
screen's base or using a display stand, it can almost be.

Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models

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Subject: Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models
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 by: dgb (David) - Wed, 6 Mar 2024 08:07 UTC

On 6 Mar 2024 at 04:45:43 GMT, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

> On 2024-03-05 22:07:29 +0000, dgb (David) said:
>
>> On 5 Mar 2024 at 21:17:11 GMT, "Alan Browne" <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2024-03-05 15:42, dgb (David) wrote:
>>>> On 5 Mar 2024 at 19:52:40 GMT, "Alan Browne" <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Since I have an M3 iMac and it uses more memory for the same load of
>>>>> apps compared to my i7 iMac, my understanding of it exceeds yours on
>>>>> this - as it does on most subjects.
>>>>
>>>> I have 27 inch iMac. I've looked and played with a new M3 iMac in our local
>>>> Apple Store.
>>>>
>>>> When you have each one of them there in front of you, regardless of the
>>>> technicalities, which screen do you prefer to be sitting in front of? How does
>>>> each make you /feel/ please?
>>>
>>> Hard to answer.
>>>
>>> The resolution quality of the M3 iMac is to the point where pixels
>>> cannot be resolved with the naked eye. It is magnificently crisp and
>>> contrast perfect at the default setting of 2240 x 1260. All fonts look
>>> perfectly smooth. Very easy on the eyes.
>>>
>>> It is usable at 2560 x 1440, but only if the screen is pretty close (at
>>> least with my eyes - I don't need glasses to read, but this rez on the
>>> 24" iMac is just a little too tight (unless I would increase font sizes
>>> which would be pretty much a return to the other resolution)). This is
>>> likely more a personal thing so YMMV.
>>>
>>> 4480 x 2520 is not usable, really. Again one could blow up the font
>>> sizes for reading - but not much point to it. Perhaps in some graphics
>>> usages and workflow this would be a useful resolution.
>>>
>>> I would have preferred 27". On the i7 iMac 27", 2560x1440 and it's very
>>> nice. Lean in and you can see pixels. Lean in mind you. It's a very
>>> nice display on that old 2012 iMac (not Retina). For all non-video
>>> work, the 2012 iMac suited my needs just fine.
>>>
>>> Still a killer processor. But.
>>>
>>> When editing/rendering 1080p video of any length, it is too tedious.
>>> Such on the M3 iMac is a whiz. (Though I still wish it was a higher
>>> spec in number of cores). As a benchmark, it is almost 3x faster to
>>> Handbrake a video on the M3 v. the i7 iMac (2012).
>>>
>>> At some point I will gut the 27" of everything but the power supply and
>>> display panel and add an adaptor to turn it into an HDMI or DisplayPort
>>> display.
>>>
>>> So in the end one makes adjustments to "real estate" on the screen,
>>> sizing of App windows, what goes to the side display (which I've changed
>>> to a Samsung 27" that I normally use for home lab use (Rasp Pi
>>> development). It's so wide, that I only use the right 60% of it when
>>> using this iMac M3).
>>
>> Thank you so much for all the interesting detail, Alan.
>>
>> My own is a 2017 iMac with a Retina display and I really don't want to change
>> it.
>> However, I'm using macOS Ventura 13.6.4 and cannot move on to Sonoma.
>> I'm living in the hope that Apple may one day provide another 27 inch desktop
>> computer before this one dies! I'm also using an old 24 inch iMac to run Linux
>> Mint and it does this quite well.
>> I'm impressed with your intention to repurpose your old iMac!
>> Good for you! :-)
>>
>> (ACW added for info to others)
>
> The current reports say Apple are not planning on making a new 27in
> iMac or iMac Pro any time soon. There are dubious rumours that pop up
> from time to time, including going to 32in iMac.

That is my understanding too.

> You could of course buy a Mac Mini or Mac Studio and add whatever
> screen size you want. Not an "all-in-one", but depending on the
> screen's base or using a display stand, it can almost be.

My Professor friend has done exactly that!
The Studio Display is just wonderful - but expensive!
With iCloud storage being relatively cheap, there's no (apparent) need to have
lots of on-board storage nowadays.

Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models

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From: hugyb...@gmx.net (Jörg Lorenz)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system
Subject: Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models
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 by: Jörg Lorenz - Wed, 6 Mar 2024 09:06 UTC

Am 05.03.24 um 20:52 schrieb Alan Browne:
> On 2024-03-05 09:26, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>> On 05.03.24 15:12, Alan Browne wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-04 19:15, Your Name wrote:
>>>>
>>>> New models of a Mac that is rather pointless. It's now even less
>>>> differentiated from the MacBook Pro models. Apple should just drop the
>>>> "Air" and "Pro" names and have a single "MacBook" product line.  :-\
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    Apple Announces New MacBook Air Models With M3 Chip
>>>>    <https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/04/apple-announces-m3-macbook-air/>
>>>>
>>>>    Apple Quietly Releases New M3 MacBook Air Lineup
>>>> <https://www.idropnews.com/news/apple-quietly-releases-new-m3-macbook-air-lineup/209627/>
>>>
>>> Look at the options and memory (RAM and storage) for the real story.
>>>
>>> The low end version of this has 8GB of RAM. Wholly inadequate.
>>> 512 GB of SSD. Barely adequate.
>>
>> Your contribution in this thread: Completely inadequate and no
>> understanding of the Silicon-Architecture at all.
>
> Since I have an M3 iMac and it uses more memory for the same load of
> apps compared to my i7 iMac, my understanding of it exceeds yours on
> this - as it does on most subjects.

QED: You live in you own bubble and you do not understand anymore what
happens around your bubble.

Your Mac-selection does not impress anybody at all. My selection of Macs
is bigger and all run on the same OS-version. Even one of this barbecue
grills with an Intel-processor is part of it.

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models

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Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system
Subject: Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models
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 by: Jörg Lorenz - Wed, 6 Mar 2024 09:07 UTC

Am 06.03.24 um 00:22 schrieb Alan Browne:
> On 2024-03-05 16:50, Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-03-05 11:52, Alan Browne wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-05 09:26, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>>> On 05.03.24 15:12, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-03-04 19:15, Your Name wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> New models of a Mac that is rather pointless. It's now even less
>>>>>> differentiated from the MacBook Pro models. Apple should just drop the
>>>>>> "Air" and "Pro" names and have a single "MacBook" product line.  :-\
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      Apple Announces New MacBook Air Models With M3 Chip
>>>>>> <https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/04/apple-announces-m3-macbook-air/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      Apple Quietly Releases New M3 MacBook Air Lineup
>>>>>> <https://www.idropnews.com/news/apple-quietly-releases-new-m3-macbook-air-lineup/209627/>
>>>>>
>>>>> Look at the options and memory (RAM and storage) for the real story.
>>>>>
>>>>> The low end version of this has 8GB of RAM.  Wholly inadequate.
>>>>> 512 GB of SSD.  Barely adequate.
>>>>
>>>> Your contribution in this thread: Completely inadequate and no
>>>> understanding of the Silicon-Architecture at all.
>>>
>>> Since I have an M3 iMac and it uses more memory for the same load of
>>> apps compared to my i7 iMac, my understanding of it exceeds yours on
>>> this - as it does on most subjects.
>>>
>>
>> Post the screenshots.
>
> Go buy an Apple Silicon Mac and find out for yourself.

A lot of claims and no proof: You are a Troll.

> Or look up the numerous articles online that discuss the same thing.

Idiot.

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

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Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system
Subject: Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models
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 by: Jörg Lorenz - Wed, 6 Mar 2024 09:08 UTC

Am 06.03.24 um 01:17 schrieb Alan:
> On 2024-03-05 15:22, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2024-03-05 16:50, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-05 11:52, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>> On 2024-03-05 09:26, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>>>> On 05.03.24 15:12, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-03-04 19:15, Your Name wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> New models of a Mac that is rather pointless. It's now even less
>>>>>>> differentiated from the MacBook Pro models. Apple should just drop
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> "Air" and "Pro" names and have a single "MacBook" product line.  :-\
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>      Apple Announces New MacBook Air Models With M3 Chip
>>>>>>> <https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/04/apple-announces-m3-macbook-air/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>      Apple Quietly Releases New M3 MacBook Air Lineup
>>>>>>> <https://www.idropnews.com/news/apple-quietly-releases-new-m3-macbook-air-lineup/209627/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Look at the options and memory (RAM and storage) for the real story.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The low end version of this has 8GB of RAM.  Wholly inadequate.
>>>>>> 512 GB of SSD.  Barely adequate.
>>>>>
>>>>> Your contribution in this thread: Completely inadequate and no
>>>>> understanding of the Silicon-Architecture at all.
>>>>
>>>> Since I have an M3 iMac and it uses more memory for the same load of
>>>> apps compared to my i7 iMac, my understanding of it exceeds yours on
>>>> this - as it does on most subjects.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Post the screenshots.
>>
>> Go buy an Apple Silicon Mac and find out for yourself.
>>
>> Or look up the numerous articles online that discuss the same thing.
>>
>
> Sorry, but given how easy it would be to post screenshots and you
> punking out on doing so...
>
> ...I'll take what you've claimed with a (large) grain of salt.
>
> :-)

He is totally lacking credibility.

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

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Newsgroups: alt.computer.workshop,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system
Subject: Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models
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 by: Jolly Roger - Wed, 6 Mar 2024 16:23 UTC

On 2024-03-06, dgb <david@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
> On 6 Mar 2024 at 04:45:43 GMT, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>
>> The current reports say Apple are not planning on making a new 27in
>> iMac or iMac Pro any time soon. There are dubious rumours that pop up
>> from time to time, including going to 32in iMac.
>
> That is my understanding too.
>
>> You could of course buy a Mac Mini or Mac Studio and add whatever
>> screen size you want. Not an "all-in-one", but depending on the
>> screen's base or using a display stand, it can almost be.
>
> My Professor friend has done exactly that! The Studio Display is just
> wonderful - but expensive!

Best display I've ever owned. I have it sitting next to a 5K LG
UltraFine display, and it's striking how much better the Studio Display
is in just about every way: color accuracy, viewing angle, backlight
consistency, overall build quality, audio quality, and camera quality.
It's worth every penny I paid for it.

> With iCloud storage being relatively cheap, there's no (apparent) need
> to have lots of on-board storage nowadays.

Personally, I can't really function without at least 2 TB of internal
storage, but I know I'm not representative of the average user.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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 by: pothead - Wed, 6 Mar 2024 17:25 UTC

On 2024-03-06, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> On 2024-03-06, dgb <david@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>> On 6 Mar 2024 at 04:45:43 GMT, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The current reports say Apple are not planning on making a new 27in
>>> iMac or iMac Pro any time soon. There are dubious rumours that pop up
>>> from time to time, including going to 32in iMac.
>>
>> That is my understanding too.
>>
>>> You could of course buy a Mac Mini or Mac Studio and add whatever
>>> screen size you want. Not an "all-in-one", but depending on the
>>> screen's base or using a display stand, it can almost be.
>>
>> My Professor friend has done exactly that! The Studio Display is just
>> wonderful - but expensive!
>
> Best display I've ever owned. I have it sitting next to a 5K LG
> UltraFine display, and it's striking how much better the Studio Display
> is in just about every way: color accuracy, viewing angle, backlight
> consistency, overall build quality, audio quality, and camera quality.
> It's worth every penny I paid for it.
>
>> With iCloud storage being relatively cheap, there's no (apparent) need
>> to have lots of on-board storage nowadays.
>
> Personally, I can't really function without at least 2 TB of internal
> storage, but I know I'm not representative of the average user.
>
It's an amazing display. Super clear, bright vivid colors and easy on the eyes. Even looking at
monitors in the big box stores where nothing tends to be adjusted properly, Apple monitors look
fantastic. I do think part of it has to do with the fonts Apple uses. I don't know for sure though.

--
pothead
Tommy Chong For President 2024.
Crazy Joe Biden Is A Demented Imbecile.
Impeach Joe Biden 2022.

Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models

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 by: Your Name - Wed, 6 Mar 2024 20:55 UTC

On 2024-03-06 08:07:38 +0000, dgb (David) said:
> On 6 Mar 2024 at 04:45:43 GMT, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>> On 2024-03-05 22:07:29 +0000, dgb (David) said:
>>> On 5 Mar 2024 at 21:17:11 GMT, "Alan Browne" <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2024-03-05 15:42, dgb (David) wrote:
>>>>> On 5 Mar 2024 at 19:52:40 GMT, "Alan Browne" <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Since I have an M3 iMac and it uses more memory for the same load of
>>>>>> apps compared to my i7 iMac, my understanding of it exceeds yours on
>>>>>> this - as it does on most subjects.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have 27 inch iMac. I've looked and played with a new M3 iMac in our
>>>>> local Apple Store.
>>>>>
>>>>> When you have each one of them there in front of you, regardless of the
>>>>> technicalities, which screen do you prefer to be sitting in front of?
>>>>> How does each make you /feel/ please?
>>>>
>>>> Hard to answer.
>>>>
>>>> The resolution quality of the M3 iMac is to the point where pixels
>>>> cannot be resolved with the naked eye. It is magnificently crisp and
>>>> contrast perfect at the default setting of 2240 x 1260. All fonts look
>>>> perfectly smooth. Very easy on the eyes.
>>>>
>>>> It is usable at 2560 x 1440, but only if the screen is pretty close (at
>>>> least with my eyes - I don't need glasses to read, but this rez on the
>>>> 24" iMac is just a little too tight (unless I would increase font sizes
>>>> which would be pretty much a return to the other resolution)). This is
>>>> likely more a personal thing so YMMV.
>>>>
>>>> 4480 x 2520 is not usable, really. Again one could blow up the font
>>>> sizes for reading - but not much point to it. Perhaps in some graphics
>>>> usages and workflow this would be a useful resolution.
>>>>
>>>> I would have preferred 27". On the i7 iMac 27", 2560x1440 and it's very
>>>> nice. Lean in and you can see pixels. Lean in mind you. It's a very
>>>> nice display on that old 2012 iMac (not Retina). For all non-video
>>>> work, the 2012 iMac suited my needs just fine.
>>>>
>>>> Still a killer processor. But.
>>>>
>>>> When editing/rendering 1080p video of any length, it is too tedious.
>>>> Such on the M3 iMac is a whiz. (Though I still wish it was a higher
>>>> spec in number of cores). As a benchmark, it is almost 3x faster to
>>>> Handbrake a video on the M3 v. the i7 iMac (2012).
>>>>
>>>> At some point I will gut the 27" of everything but the power supply and
>>>> display panel and add an adaptor to turn it into an HDMI or DisplayPort
>>>> display.
>>>>
>>>> So in the end one makes adjustments to "real estate" on the screen,
>>>> sizing of App windows, what goes to the side display (which I've changed
>>>> to a Samsung 27" that I normally use for home lab use (Rasp Pi
>>>> development). It's so wide, that I only use the right 60% of it when
>>>> using this iMac M3).
>>>
>>> Thank you so much for all the interesting detail, Alan.
>>>
>>> My own is a 2017 iMac with a Retina display and I really don't want to
>>> change it. However, I'm using macOS Ventura 13.6.4 and cannot move on
>>> to Sonoma. I'm living in the hope that Apple may one day provide
>>> another 27 inch desktop computer before this one dies! I'm also using
>>> an old 24 inch iMac to run Linux Mint and it does this quite well. I'm
>>> impressed with your intention to repurpose your old iMac! Good for you!
>>> :-)
>>>
>>> (ACW added for info to others)
>>
>> The current reports say Apple are not planning on making a new 27in
>> iMac or iMac Pro any time soon. There are dubious rumours that pop up
>> from time to time, including going to 32in iMac.
>
> That is my understanding too.
>
>> You could of course buy a Mac Mini or Mac Studio and add whatever
>> screen size you want. Not an "all-in-one", but depending on the
>> screen's base or using a display stand, it can almost be.
>
> My Professor friend has done exactly that!
> The Studio Display is just wonderful - but expensive!
> With iCloud storage being relatively cheap, there's no (apparent) need to have
> lots of on-board storage nowadays.

You can buy a build-to-order Mac Mini or Mac Studio with up to 8TB
internal storage from the Apple Store or a reseller ... if your bank
account can stand it.

Long gone are the good old days of easily being able to add RAM or
change drives or graphics cards in a Mac. It not even possible in the
so-called "Mac Pro tower", making that just another pointless Mac
model. :-(

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