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computers / comp.sys.mac.misc / Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models

SubjectAuthor
* [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsYour Name
+- Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsJörg Lorenz
`* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan Browne
 +* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsJoerg Lorenz
 |`* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan Browne
 | +* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsdgb (David)
 | |`* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan Browne
 | | `* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsdgb (David)
 | |  +- Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan Browne
 | |  `* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsYour Name
 | |   `* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsdgb (David)
 | |    +* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsJolly Roger
 | |    |+- Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelspothead
 | |    |`* Desktop & Documents Folders in iCloud Drive. - (was- [NEWS] Apple releases M3 Mdgb (David)
 | |    | `* Re: Desktop & Documents Folders in iCloud Drive. - (was- [NEWS]Jolly Roger
 | |    |  `* Re: Desktop & Documents Folders in iCloud Drive. -dgb (David)
 | |    |   +- Re: Desktop & Documents Folders in iCloud Drive. -Alan
 | |    |   `- Re: Desktop & Documents Folders in iCloud Drive. -Jolly Roger
 | |    `* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsYour Name
 | |     `- Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsdgb (David)
 | +* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan
 | |`* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan Browne
 | | +* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan
 | | |+- Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsJörg Lorenz
 | | |`* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan Browne
 | | | `* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan
 | | |  `* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan Browne
 | | |   +* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan
 | | |   |`* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan Browne
 | | |   | `* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan
 | | |   |  `* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan Browne
 | | |   |   `- Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan
 | | |   `* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsBud Frede
 | | |    `* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan Browne
 | | |     +- Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsBud Frede
 | | |     `* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan
 | | |      `* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan Browne
 | | |       `* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan
 | | |        `* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan Browne
 | | |         `* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan
 | | |          `* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan Browne
 | | |           `- Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan
 | | `* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsJörg Lorenz
 | |  `* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan Browne
 | |   `* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan
 | |    `* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan Browne
 | |     `* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan
 | |      `* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan Browne
 | |       `- Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan
 | `* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsJörg Lorenz
 |  `* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan Browne
 |   `- Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan
 `* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsTyrone
  +* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan Browne
  |+* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan
  ||`* Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan Browne
  || `- Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsAlan
  |`- Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsBud Frede
  `- Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air modelsBud Frede

Pages:123
Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models

<l4s50cFu2i3U1@mid.individual.net>

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From: dav...@nomail.afraid.org (dgb (David))
Newsgroups: alt.computer.workshop,comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system
Subject: Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models
Date: 6 Mar 2024 21:20:12 GMT
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 by: dgb (David) - Wed, 6 Mar 2024 21:20 UTC

On 6 Mar 2024 at 20:55:46 GMT, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

> On 2024-03-06 08:07:38 +0000, dgb (David) said:
>> On 6 Mar 2024 at 04:45:43 GMT, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-05 22:07:29 +0000, dgb (David) said:
>>>> On 5 Mar 2024 at 21:17:11 GMT, "Alan Browne" <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-03-05 15:42, dgb (David) wrote:
>>>>>> On 5 Mar 2024 at 19:52:40 GMT, "Alan Browne" <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Since I have an M3 iMac and it uses more memory for the same load of
>>>>>>> apps compared to my i7 iMac, my understanding of it exceeds yours on
>>>>>>> this - as it does on most subjects.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have 27 inch iMac. I've looked and played with a new M3 iMac in our
>>>>>> local Apple Store.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When you have each one of them there in front of you, regardless of the
>>>>>> technicalities, which screen do you prefer to be sitting in front of?
>>>>>> How does each make you /feel/ please?
>>>>>
>>>>> Hard to answer.
>>>>>
>>>>> The resolution quality of the M3 iMac is to the point where pixels
>>>>> cannot be resolved with the naked eye. It is magnificently crisp and
>>>>> contrast perfect at the default setting of 2240 x 1260. All fonts look
>>>>> perfectly smooth. Very easy on the eyes.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is usable at 2560 x 1440, but only if the screen is pretty close (at
>>>>> least with my eyes - I don't need glasses to read, but this rez on the
>>>>> 24" iMac is just a little too tight (unless I would increase font sizes
>>>>> which would be pretty much a return to the other resolution)). This is
>>>>> likely more a personal thing so YMMV.
>>>>>
>>>>> 4480 x 2520 is not usable, really. Again one could blow up the font
>>>>> sizes for reading - but not much point to it. Perhaps in some graphics
>>>>> usages and workflow this would be a useful resolution.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would have preferred 27". On the i7 iMac 27", 2560x1440 and it's very
>>>>> nice. Lean in and you can see pixels. Lean in mind you. It's a very
>>>>> nice display on that old 2012 iMac (not Retina). For all non-video
>>>>> work, the 2012 iMac suited my needs just fine.
>>>>>
>>>>> Still a killer processor. But.
>>>>>
>>>>> When editing/rendering 1080p video of any length, it is too tedious.
>>>>> Such on the M3 iMac is a whiz. (Though I still wish it was a higher
>>>>> spec in number of cores). As a benchmark, it is almost 3x faster to
>>>>> Handbrake a video on the M3 v. the i7 iMac (2012).
>>>>>
>>>>> At some point I will gut the 27" of everything but the power supply and
>>>>> display panel and add an adaptor to turn it into an HDMI or DisplayPort
>>>>> display.
>>>>>
>>>>> So in the end one makes adjustments to "real estate" on the screen,
>>>>> sizing of App windows, what goes to the side display (which I've changed
>>>>> to a Samsung 27" that I normally use for home lab use (Rasp Pi
>>>>> development). It's so wide, that I only use the right 60% of it when
>>>>> using this iMac M3).
>>>>
>>>> Thank you so much for all the interesting detail, Alan.
>>>>
>>>> My own is a 2017 iMac with a Retina display and I really don't want to
>>>> change it. However, I'm using macOS Ventura 13.6.4 and cannot move on
>>>> to Sonoma. I'm living in the hope that Apple may one day provide
>>>> another 27 inch desktop computer before this one dies! I'm also using
>>>> an old 24 inch iMac to run Linux Mint and it does this quite well. I'm
>>>> impressed with your intention to repurpose your old iMac! Good for you!
>>>> :-)
>>>>
>>>> (ACW added for info to others)
>>>
>>> The current reports say Apple are not planning on making a new 27in
>>> iMac or iMac Pro any time soon. There are dubious rumours that pop up
>>> from time to time, including going to 32in iMac.
>>
>> That is my understanding too.
>>
>>> You could of course buy a Mac Mini or Mac Studio and add whatever
>>> screen size you want. Not an "all-in-one", but depending on the
>>> screen's base or using a display stand, it can almost be.
>>
>> My Professor friend has done exactly that!
>> The Studio Display is just wonderful - but expensive!
>> With iCloud storage being relatively cheap, there's no (apparent) need to have
>> lots of on-board storage nowadays.
>
> You can buy a build-to-order Mac Mini or Mac Studio with up to 8TB
> internal storage from the Apple Store or a reseller ... if your bank
> account can stand it.

Ha! Understood. :-)

> Long gone are the good old days of easily being able to add RAM or
> change drives or graphics cards in a Mac. It not even possible in the
> so-called "Mac Pro tower", making that just another pointless Mac
> model. :-(

Thank you for emphasising that. Many folk get caught out by this.

Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models

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 by: Alan Browne - Wed, 6 Mar 2024 22:14 UTC

On 2024-03-05 19:17, Alan wrote:
> On 2024-03-05 15:22, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2024-03-05 16:50, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-05 11:52, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>> On 2024-03-05 09:26, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>>>> On 05.03.24 15:12, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-03-04 19:15, Your Name wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> New models of a Mac that is rather pointless. It's now even less
>>>>>>> differentiated from the MacBook Pro models. Apple should just
>>>>>>> drop the
>>>>>>> "Air" and "Pro" names and have a single "MacBook" product line.  :-\
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>      Apple Announces New MacBook Air Models With M3 Chip
>>>>>>> <https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/04/apple-announces-m3-macbook-air/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>      Apple Quietly Releases New M3 MacBook Air Lineup
>>>>>>> <https://www.idropnews.com/news/apple-quietly-releases-new-m3-macbook-air-lineup/209627/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Look at the options and memory (RAM and storage) for the real story.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The low end version of this has 8GB of RAM.  Wholly inadequate.
>>>>>> 512 GB of SSD.  Barely adequate.
>>>>>
>>>>> Your contribution in this thread: Completely inadequate and no
>>>>> understanding of the Silicon-Architecture at all.
>>>>
>>>> Since I have an M3 iMac and it uses more memory for the same load of
>>>> apps compared to my i7 iMac, my understanding of it exceeds yours on
>>>> this - as it does on most subjects.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Post the screenshots.
>>
>> Go buy an Apple Silicon Mac and find out for yourself.
>>
>> Or look up the numerous articles online that discuss the same thing.
>>
>
> Sorry, but given how easy it would be to post screenshots and you
> punking out on doing so...
>
> ...I'll take what you've claimed with a (large) grain of salt.

Imagine my consternation.

Fact is I have an Apple Silicon iMac and the numbers are plain to see.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models

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 by: Alan Browne - Wed, 6 Mar 2024 22:18 UTC

On 2024-03-06 04:06, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 05.03.24 um 20:52 schrieb Alan Browne:
>> On 2024-03-05 09:26, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>> On 05.03.24 15:12, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>> On 2024-03-04 19:15, Your Name wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> New models of a Mac that is rather pointless. It's now even less
>>>>> differentiated from the MacBook Pro models. Apple should just drop the
>>>>> "Air" and "Pro" names and have a single "MacBook" product line.  :-\
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>       Apple Announces New MacBook Air Models With M3 Chip
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/04/apple-announces-m3-macbook-air/>
>>>>>
>>>>>       Apple Quietly Releases New M3 MacBook Air Lineup
>>>>> <https://www.idropnews.com/news/apple-quietly-releases-new-m3-macbook-air-lineup/209627/>
>>>>
>>>> Look at the options and memory (RAM and storage) for the real story.
>>>>
>>>> The low end version of this has 8GB of RAM.  Wholly inadequate.
>>>> 512 GB of SSD.  Barely adequate.
>>>
>>> Your contribution in this thread: Completely inadequate and no
>>> understanding of the Silicon-Architecture at all.
>>
>> Since I have an M3 iMac and it uses more memory for the same load of
>> apps compared to my i7 iMac, my understanding of it exceeds yours on
>> this - as it does on most subjects.
>
> QED: You live in you own bubble and you do not understand anymore what
> happens around your bubble.

Not at all. And the observations I make are simply that: observations.
They are just the numbers that show for similar operating conditions (my
typical any-time-of-day app load).

> Your Mac-selection does not impress anybody at all. My selection of Macs
> is bigger and all run on the same OS-version. Even one of this barbecue
> grills with an Intel-processor is part of it.

Between home and work I have a lot of Macs.

But, if you Google away, you will find a lot of people showing that the
Apple Silicon Macs do not live up to Apple's hype over not needing as
much memory as an intel Mac.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models

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 by: Alan Browne - Wed, 6 Mar 2024 22:20 UTC

On 2024-03-06 04:07, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> Am 06.03.24 um 00:22 schrieb Alan Browne:
>> On 2024-03-05 16:50, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-05 11:52, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>> On 2024-03-05 09:26, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>>>> On 05.03.24 15:12, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-03-04 19:15, Your Name wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> New models of a Mac that is rather pointless. It's now even less
>>>>>>> differentiated from the MacBook Pro models. Apple should just
>>>>>>> drop the
>>>>>>> "Air" and "Pro" names and have a single "MacBook" product line.  :-\
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       Apple Announces New MacBook Air Models With M3 Chip
>>>>>>> <https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/04/apple-announces-m3-macbook-air/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>       Apple Quietly Releases New M3 MacBook Air Lineup
>>>>>>> <https://www.idropnews.com/news/apple-quietly-releases-new-m3-macbook-air-lineup/209627/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Look at the options and memory (RAM and storage) for the real story.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The low end version of this has 8GB of RAM.  Wholly inadequate.
>>>>>> 512 GB of SSD.  Barely adequate.
>>>>>
>>>>> Your contribution in this thread: Completely inadequate and no
>>>>> understanding of the Silicon-Architecture at all.
>>>>
>>>> Since I have an M3 iMac and it uses more memory for the same load of
>>>> apps compared to my i7 iMac, my understanding of it exceeds yours on
>>>> this - as it does on most subjects.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Post the screenshots.
>>
>> Go buy an Apple Silicon Mac and find out for yourself.
>
> A lot of claims and no proof: You are a Troll.

Just the numbers I see. Do you have an Apple Silicon Mac?

>
>> Or look up the numerous articles online that discuss the same thing.
>
> Idiot.

Stop looking in the mirror - it's bad for your ego.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models

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 by: Alan - Wed, 6 Mar 2024 22:24 UTC

On 2024-03-06 14:14, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2024-03-05 19:17, Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-03-05 15:22, Alan Browne wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-05 16:50, Alan wrote:
>>>> On 2024-03-05 11:52, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-03-05 09:26, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>>>>> On 05.03.24 15:12, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2024-03-04 19:15, Your Name wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> New models of a Mac that is rather pointless. It's now even less
>>>>>>>> differentiated from the MacBook Pro models. Apple should just
>>>>>>>> drop the
>>>>>>>> "Air" and "Pro" names and have a single "MacBook" product line.
>>>>>>>> :-\
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>      Apple Announces New MacBook Air Models With M3 Chip
>>>>>>>> <https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/04/apple-announces-m3-macbook-air/>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>      Apple Quietly Releases New M3 MacBook Air Lineup
>>>>>>>> <https://www.idropnews.com/news/apple-quietly-releases-new-m3-macbook-air-lineup/209627/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Look at the options and memory (RAM and storage) for the real story.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The low end version of this has 8GB of RAM.  Wholly inadequate.
>>>>>>> 512 GB of SSD.  Barely adequate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your contribution in this thread: Completely inadequate and no
>>>>>> understanding of the Silicon-Architecture at all.
>>>>>
>>>>> Since I have an M3 iMac and it uses more memory for the same load
>>>>> of apps compared to my i7 iMac, my understanding of it exceeds
>>>>> yours on this - as it does on most subjects.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Post the screenshots.
>>>
>>> Go buy an Apple Silicon Mac and find out for yourself.
>>>
>>> Or look up the numerous articles online that discuss the same thing.
>>>
>>
>> Sorry, but given how easy it would be to post screenshots and you
>> punking out on doing so...
>>
>> ...I'll take what you've claimed with a (large) grain of salt.
>
> Imagine my consternation.
>
> Fact is I have an Apple Silicon iMac and the numbers are plain to see.
>

The numbers are what you CLAIM to have seen...

....but won't show screenshots to corroborate.

Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models

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From: nuh...@nope.com (Alan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system
Subject: Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models
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 by: Alan - Wed, 6 Mar 2024 22:24 UTC

On 2024-03-06 14:20, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2024-03-06 04:07, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> Am 06.03.24 um 00:22 schrieb Alan Browne:
>>> On 2024-03-05 16:50, Alan wrote:
>>>> On 2024-03-05 11:52, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-03-05 09:26, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>>>>> On 05.03.24 15:12, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2024-03-04 19:15, Your Name wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> New models of a Mac that is rather pointless. It's now even less
>>>>>>>> differentiated from the MacBook Pro models. Apple should just
>>>>>>>> drop the
>>>>>>>> "Air" and "Pro" names and have a single "MacBook" product line.
>>>>>>>> :-\
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>       Apple Announces New MacBook Air Models With M3 Chip
>>>>>>>> <https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/04/apple-announces-m3-macbook-air/>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>       Apple Quietly Releases New M3 MacBook Air Lineup
>>>>>>>> <https://www.idropnews.com/news/apple-quietly-releases-new-m3-macbook-air-lineup/209627/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Look at the options and memory (RAM and storage) for the real story.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The low end version of this has 8GB of RAM.  Wholly inadequate.
>>>>>>> 512 GB of SSD.  Barely adequate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Your contribution in this thread: Completely inadequate and no
>>>>>> understanding of the Silicon-Architecture at all.
>>>>>
>>>>> Since I have an M3 iMac and it uses more memory for the same load of
>>>>> apps compared to my i7 iMac, my understanding of it exceeds yours on
>>>>> this - as it does on most subjects.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Post the screenshots.
>>>
>>> Go buy an Apple Silicon Mac and find out for yourself.
>>
>> A lot of claims and no proof: You are a Troll.
>
> Just the numbers I see.  Do you have an Apple Silicon Mac?

The numbers you CLAIM to have seen.

Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models

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From: nuh...@nope.com (Alan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system
Subject: Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models
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 by: Alan - Wed, 6 Mar 2024 22:24 UTC

On 2024-03-06 14:18, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2024-03-06 04:06, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> Am 05.03.24 um 20:52 schrieb Alan Browne:
>>> On 2024-03-05 09:26, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>>> On 05.03.24 15:12, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-03-04 19:15, Your Name wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> New models of a Mac that is rather pointless. It's now even less
>>>>>> differentiated from the MacBook Pro models. Apple should just drop
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> "Air" and "Pro" names and have a single "MacBook" product line.  :-\
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       Apple Announces New MacBook Air Models With M3 Chip
>>>>>> <https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/04/apple-announces-m3-macbook-air/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       Apple Quietly Releases New M3 MacBook Air Lineup
>>>>>> <https://www.idropnews.com/news/apple-quietly-releases-new-m3-macbook-air-lineup/209627/>
>>>>>
>>>>> Look at the options and memory (RAM and storage) for the real story.
>>>>>
>>>>> The low end version of this has 8GB of RAM.  Wholly inadequate.
>>>>> 512 GB of SSD.  Barely adequate.
>>>>
>>>> Your contribution in this thread: Completely inadequate and no
>>>> understanding of the Silicon-Architecture at all.
>>>
>>> Since I have an M3 iMac and it uses more memory for the same load of
>>> apps compared to my i7 iMac, my understanding of it exceeds yours on
>>> this - as it does on most subjects.
>>
>> QED: You live in you own bubble and you do not understand anymore what
>> happens around your bubble.
>
> Not at all.  And the observations I make are simply that: observations.
> They are just the numbers that show for similar operating conditions (my
> typical any-time-of-day app load).

Show the screenshots...

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From: bitbuc...@blackhole.com (Alan Browne)
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 by: Alan Browne - Thu, 7 Mar 2024 22:16 UTC

On 2024-03-06 17:24, Alan wrote:
> On 2024-03-06 14:14, Alan Browne wrote:
claimed with a (large) grain of salt.
>>
>> Imagine my consternation.
>>
>> Fact is I have an Apple Silicon iMac and the numbers are plain to see.
>>
>
> The numbers are what you CLAIM to have seen...
>
> ...but won't show screenshots to corroborate.

I have no obligation to do so.

What you can do is go get your self an Apple Si Mac and see for yourself.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

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 by: Alan Browne - Thu, 7 Mar 2024 22:18 UTC

On 2024-03-06 17:24, Alan wrote:
> On 2024-03-06 14:20, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2024-03-06 04:07, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>> Am 06.03.24 um 00:22 schrieb Alan Browne:
>>>> On 2024-03-05 16:50, Alan wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-03-05 11:52, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-03-05 09:26, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>>>>>> On 05.03.24 15:12, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2024-03-04 19:15, Your Name wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> New models of a Mac that is rather pointless. It's now even less
>>>>>>>>> differentiated from the MacBook Pro models. Apple should just
>>>>>>>>> drop the
>>>>>>>>> "Air" and "Pro" names and have a single "MacBook" product line.
>>>>>>>>> :-\
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>       Apple Announces New MacBook Air Models With M3 Chip
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/04/apple-announces-m3-macbook-air/>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>       Apple Quietly Releases New M3 MacBook Air Lineup
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.idropnews.com/news/apple-quietly-releases-new-m3-macbook-air-lineup/209627/>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Look at the options and memory (RAM and storage) for the real
>>>>>>>> story.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The low end version of this has 8GB of RAM.  Wholly inadequate.
>>>>>>>> 512 GB of SSD.  Barely adequate.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Your contribution in this thread: Completely inadequate and no
>>>>>>> understanding of the Silicon-Architecture at all.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Since I have an M3 iMac and it uses more memory for the same load of
>>>>>> apps compared to my i7 iMac, my understanding of it exceeds yours on
>>>>>> this - as it does on most subjects.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Post the screenshots.
>>>>
>>>> Go buy an Apple Silicon Mac and find out for yourself.
>>>
>>> A lot of claims and no proof: You are a Troll.
>>
>> Just the numbers I see.  Do you have an Apple Silicon Mac?
>
> The numbers you CLAIM to have seen.

Numbers I'm seeing right now actually on this home Apple Si iMac.

I'm not much into proving anything to you. You're simply not important.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models

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From: nuh...@nope.com (Alan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system
Subject: Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models
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 by: Alan - Fri, 8 Mar 2024 01:36 UTC

On 2024-03-07 14:16, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2024-03-06 17:24, Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-03-06 14:14, Alan Browne wrote:
> claimed with a (large) grain of salt.
>>>
>>> Imagine my consternation.
>>>
>>> Fact is I have an Apple Silicon iMac and the numbers are plain to see.
>>>
>>
>> The numbers are what you CLAIM to have seen...
>>
>> ...but won't show screenshots to corroborate.
>
> I have no obligation to do so.

Good. You're bright enough to know that.

Are you bright enough to understand that the onus to support a claim is
on the one who MAKES the claim?

Or that when someone refuses to do something simple to support a claim...

....it makes others think he has something to hide?

<https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gBtTjBw9RZdogtopDdJjyYiMzO1-yPAK/view?usp=share_link>

Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models

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Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system
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 by: Alan - Fri, 8 Mar 2024 01:37 UTC

On 2024-03-07 14:18, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2024-03-06 17:24, Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-03-06 14:20, Alan Browne wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-06 04:07, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>>> Am 06.03.24 um 00:22 schrieb Alan Browne:
>>>>> On 2024-03-05 16:50, Alan wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-03-05 11:52, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2024-03-05 09:26, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 05.03.24 15:12, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2024-03-04 19:15, Your Name wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> New models of a Mac that is rather pointless. It's now even less
>>>>>>>>>> differentiated from the MacBook Pro models. Apple should just
>>>>>>>>>> drop the
>>>>>>>>>> "Air" and "Pro" names and have a single "MacBook" product
>>>>>>>>>> line. :-\
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>       Apple Announces New MacBook Air Models With M3 Chip
>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/04/apple-announces-m3-macbook-air/>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>       Apple Quietly Releases New M3 MacBook Air Lineup
>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.idropnews.com/news/apple-quietly-releases-new-m3-macbook-air-lineup/209627/>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Look at the options and memory (RAM and storage) for the real
>>>>>>>>> story.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The low end version of this has 8GB of RAM.  Wholly inadequate.
>>>>>>>>> 512 GB of SSD.  Barely adequate.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Your contribution in this thread: Completely inadequate and no
>>>>>>>> understanding of the Silicon-Architecture at all.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Since I have an M3 iMac and it uses more memory for the same load of
>>>>>>> apps compared to my i7 iMac, my understanding of it exceeds yours on
>>>>>>> this - as it does on most subjects.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Post the screenshots.
>>>>>
>>>>> Go buy an Apple Silicon Mac and find out for yourself.
>>>>
>>>> A lot of claims and no proof: You are a Troll.
>>>
>>> Just the numbers I see.  Do you have an Apple Silicon Mac?
>>
>> The numbers you CLAIM to have seen.
>
> Numbers I'm seeing right now actually on this home Apple Si iMac.

Which you will spend time writing about...

....rather than just post a couple of screenshots.

>
> I'm not much into proving anything to you.  You're simply not important.
>

You are certainly proving that by this reply.

:-)

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Subject: Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models
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From: bitbuc...@blackhole.com (Alan Browne)
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 by: Alan Browne - Fri, 8 Mar 2024 21:45 UTC

On 2024-03-07 20:36, Alan wrote:
> On 2024-03-07 14:16, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2024-03-06 17:24, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-06 14:14, Alan Browne wrote:
>> claimed with a (large) grain of salt.
>>>>
>>>> Imagine my consternation.
>>>>
>>>> Fact is I have an Apple Silicon iMac and the numbers are plain to see.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The numbers are what you CLAIM to have seen...
>>>
>>> ...but won't show screenshots to corroborate.
>>
>> I have no obligation to do so.
>
> Good. You're bright enough to know that.
>
>
> Are you bright enough to understand that the onus to support a claim is
> on the one who MAKES the claim?

Or if one claims I'm wrong to show so themselves.

Do you own an Apple Silicon Mac? Then you can prove me wrong.

I have nothing to prove to you and I don't care if you don't believe me.
I have the numbers in front of me. And that's just the facts.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models

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From: bitbuc...@blackhole.com (Alan Browne)
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 by: Alan Browne - Fri, 8 Mar 2024 21:47 UTC

On 2024-03-07 20:37, Alan wrote:
> On 2024-03-07 14:18, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2024-03-06 17:24, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-06 14:20, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>> On 2024-03-06 04:07, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>>>> Am 06.03.24 um 00:22 schrieb Alan Browne:
>>>>>> On 2024-03-05 16:50, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2024-03-05 11:52, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2024-03-05 09:26, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 05.03.24 15:12, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-03-04 19:15, Your Name wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> New models of a Mac that is rather pointless. It's now even less
>>>>>>>>>>> differentiated from the MacBook Pro models. Apple should just
>>>>>>>>>>> drop the
>>>>>>>>>>> "Air" and "Pro" names and have a single "MacBook" product
>>>>>>>>>>> line. :-\
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>       Apple Announces New MacBook Air Models With M3 Chip
>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/04/apple-announces-m3-macbook-air/>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>       Apple Quietly Releases New M3 MacBook Air Lineup
>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.idropnews.com/news/apple-quietly-releases-new-m3-macbook-air-lineup/209627/>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Look at the options and memory (RAM and storage) for the real
>>>>>>>>>> story.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The low end version of this has 8GB of RAM.  Wholly inadequate.
>>>>>>>>>> 512 GB of SSD.  Barely adequate.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Your contribution in this thread: Completely inadequate and no
>>>>>>>>> understanding of the Silicon-Architecture at all.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Since I have an M3 iMac and it uses more memory for the same
>>>>>>>> load of
>>>>>>>> apps compared to my i7 iMac, my understanding of it exceeds
>>>>>>>> yours on
>>>>>>>> this - as it does on most subjects.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Post the screenshots.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Go buy an Apple Silicon Mac and find out for yourself.
>>>>>
>>>>> A lot of claims and no proof: You are a Troll.
>>>>
>>>> Just the numbers I see.  Do you have an Apple Silicon Mac?
>>>
>>> The numbers you CLAIM to have seen.
>>
>> Numbers I'm seeing right now actually on this home Apple Si iMac.
>
> Which you will spend time writing about...
>
> ...rather than just post a couple of screenshots.
>
>>
>> I'm not much into proving anything to you.  You're simply not important.
>>
>
> You are certainly proving that by this reply.

Yes, thanks for confirming you're not important. Unexpected humility
from you.

Now, do you own an Apple Si Mac or not?

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models

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From: nuh...@nope.com (Alan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system
Subject: Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models
Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2024 16:40:47 -0800
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 by: Alan - Sat, 9 Mar 2024 00:40 UTC

On 2024-03-08 13:45, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2024-03-07 20:36, Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-03-07 14:16, Alan Browne wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-06 17:24, Alan wrote:
>>>> On 2024-03-06 14:14, Alan Browne wrote:
>>> claimed with a (large) grain of salt.
>>>>>
>>>>> Imagine my consternation.
>>>>>
>>>>> Fact is I have an Apple Silicon iMac and the numbers are plain to see.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The numbers are what you CLAIM to have seen...
>>>>
>>>> ...but won't show screenshots to corroborate.
>>>
>>> I have no obligation to do so.
>>
>> Good. You're bright enough to know that.
>>
>>
>> Are you bright enough to understand that the onus to support a claim
>> is on the one who MAKES the claim?
>
> Or if one claims I'm wrong to show so themselves.

No... ...that's not the way it has ever worked.

>
> Do you own an Apple Silicon Mac?  Then you can prove me wrong.
>
> I have nothing to prove to you and I don't care if you don't believe me.
>  I have the numbers in front of me.  And that's just the facts.

If you actually had the numbers in front of you...

....and you were technically competent (maybe that's the problem)...

....it would be trivial to prove your claims.

But you don't.

Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models

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Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system
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 by: Alan - Sat, 9 Mar 2024 00:41 UTC

On 2024-03-08 13:47, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2024-03-07 20:37, Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-03-07 14:18, Alan Browne wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-06 17:24, Alan wrote:
>>>> On 2024-03-06 14:20, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-03-06 04:07, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>>>>> Am 06.03.24 um 00:22 schrieb Alan Browne:
>>>>>>> On 2024-03-05 16:50, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2024-03-05 11:52, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2024-03-05 09:26, Joerg Lorenz wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 05.03.24 15:12, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2024-03-04 19:15, Your Name wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> New models of a Mac that is rather pointless. It's now even
>>>>>>>>>>>> less
>>>>>>>>>>>> differentiated from the MacBook Pro models. Apple should
>>>>>>>>>>>> just drop the
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Air" and "Pro" names and have a single "MacBook" product
>>>>>>>>>>>> line. :-\
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>       Apple Announces New MacBook Air Models With M3 Chip
>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/04/apple-announces-m3-macbook-air/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>       Apple Quietly Releases New M3 MacBook Air Lineup
>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.idropnews.com/news/apple-quietly-releases-new-m3-macbook-air-lineup/209627/>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Look at the options and memory (RAM and storage) for the real
>>>>>>>>>>> story.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The low end version of this has 8GB of RAM.  Wholly inadequate.
>>>>>>>>>>> 512 GB of SSD.  Barely adequate.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Your contribution in this thread: Completely inadequate and no
>>>>>>>>>> understanding of the Silicon-Architecture at all.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Since I have an M3 iMac and it uses more memory for the same
>>>>>>>>> load of
>>>>>>>>> apps compared to my i7 iMac, my understanding of it exceeds
>>>>>>>>> yours on
>>>>>>>>> this - as it does on most subjects.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Post the screenshots.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Go buy an Apple Silicon Mac and find out for yourself.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A lot of claims and no proof: You are a Troll.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just the numbers I see.  Do you have an Apple Silicon Mac?
>>>>
>>>> The numbers you CLAIM to have seen.
>>>
>>> Numbers I'm seeing right now actually on this home Apple Si iMac.
>>
>> Which you will spend time writing about...
>>
>> ...rather than just post a couple of screenshots.
>>
>>>
>>> I'm not much into proving anything to you.  You're simply not important.
>>>
>>
>> You are certainly proving that by this reply.
>
> Yes, thanks for confirming you're not important.  Unexpected humility
> from you.

You think THAT is what it confirms...

....you answering again?

LOL

Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models

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From: fre...@mouse-potato.com (Bud Frede)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system
Subject: Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models
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 by: Bud Frede - Sat, 9 Mar 2024 12:49 UTC

Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> writes:

> On 2024-03-06 17:24, Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-03-06 14:14, Alan Browne wrote:
> claimed with a (large) grain of salt.
>>>
>>> Imagine my consternation.
>>>
>>> Fact is I have an Apple Silicon iMac and the numbers are plain to see.
>>>
>> The numbers are what you CLAIM to have seen...
>> ...but won't show screenshots to corroborate.
>
> I have no obligation to do so.
>
> What you can do is go get your self an Apple Si Mac and see for yourself.

I myself would not find 8GB RAM to be enough. However, my wife finds it
to be quite usable on her M1 Macbook Air.

I do prefer more storage than 256GB, but my work MBPs have only had that
much the past several iterations and it's been fine. (I store most
things for work in cloud storage that my workplace provides.)

Theoretically, the tight coupling of CPU, GPU, RAM, and SSD on Apple
Silicon makes it less sensitive to limited amounts of RAM, but we're not
yet at the point where we have really fast persistent storage and can
thus have one big pool of memory/storage. Optane was getting closer to
that, but I think Intel did an "OS/2" (or maybe "PS/2") to it and it
withered on the vine.

My main home computer (the one I'm typing on now) is an M1 Mini with
16GB RAM and 512GB SSD. Would I like more RAM and storage? Yes. I'm ok
without it right now though, and it doesn't get in my way normally.

I'm not really happy with Macs no longer being upgradeable, nor with the
prices that Apple charges for (commodity) items like RAM and
storage. However, this Mini is a pretty amazing little box and I very
much like using it. I can forgive Apple's sins. :-)

I do question why, in 2024, Apple has such paltry amounts of RAM and
storage in their base model products. It doesn't seem fitting for a
premium product.

Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models

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From: fre...@mouse-potato.com (Bud Frede)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system
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 by: Bud Frede - Sat, 9 Mar 2024 13:09 UTC

Tyrone <none@none.none> writes:

> On Mar 5, 2024 at 9:12:45 AM EST, "Alan Browne" <bitbucket@blackhole.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2024-03-04 19:15, Your Name wrote:
>>>
>>> New models of a Mac that is rather pointless. It's now even less
>>> differentiated from the MacBook Pro models. Apple should just drop the
>>> "Air" and "Pro" names and have a single "MacBook" product line. :-\
>>>
>>>
>>> Apple Announces New MacBook Air Models With M3 Chip
>>> <https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/04/apple-announces-m3-macbook-air/>
>>>
>>> Apple Quietly Releases New M3 MacBook Air Lineup
>>> <https://www.idropnews.com/news/apple-quietly-releases-new-m3-macbook-air-lineup/209627/>
>>
>> Look at the options and memory (RAM and storage) for the real story.
>
> The "real story" being that the Air is the low end MacBook. Not everyone
> needs a $4000 laptop.
>
>> The low end version of this has 8GB of RAM. Wholly inadequate.
>> 512 GB of SSD. Barely adequate.
>
> For you perhaps. More than adequate for most people. Again, this is the low
> end MacBook.
>
>> 16 GB is barely adequate and 24 GB is the most you can get. And
>> compared to commodity value of memory (even of this level), it's grossly
>> expensive. Worse for SSD.
>
> Except that Arm Macs don't use commodity anything. The RAM/CPUs/GPUs/NPUs/SSD
> are all custom and integrated onto a single chip. So the performance beats
> any commodity RAM plugged into slots over here and a commodity SSD plugged
> into another slot way over there.
>
> All while using way less power too.

The CPUs/GPUs/NPUs are bespoke. However, Apple doesn't make its own DRAM
chips or NAND flash chips. They use commodity RAM and NAND. There isn't
anything special about them, it's only the way that they're integrated
that is Apple's "special sauce."

Apple has always charged high prices for RAM and storage. Companies like
Sun Microsystems did too. The difference is that Apple has changed the
way they sell Macs (again) so that they're the same as the way they sell
mobile devices. You buy the complete product with whatever options Apple
has decided to provide and then it's "no touchee" from there on
out. It's Steve Jobs' old idea about selling computers as appliances.

So much for sustainability. I've had a few Macs that I got used and then
upgraded so that they became very usable computers that worked for me
for years.

The most recent was a 2012 Mini that came with not much RAM and a small
5400rpm hard drive. I put 16GB of RAM and a good-quality Samsung SSD in
it. It was like it got a new lease on life and it became a very nice
little computer. It saved it from the landfill too.

Oh well. Things change.

Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models

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From: fre...@mouse-potato.com (Bud Frede)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system
Subject: Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models
Organization: Wossamotta U.
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 by: Bud Frede - Sat, 9 Mar 2024 13:18 UTC

Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> writes:

>
> However, when I work I always have the same basic list of apps loaded
> at all times. With the i7 iMac it uses less memory than the M3 iMac
> at any given time (on the order of 2 GB more).
>
> [1] From System Information | Memory:
> Memory: 24 GB
> Type: LPDDR5
> Manufacturer: Micron

I haven't actually compared this on Apple Silicon vs. Intel. However, it
had been my impression when comparing Linux on the Raspberry Pi vs on
x64 that software actually used less RAM on ARM. I even thought about it
as "a 4GB RPi is roughly equivalent to a PC with 8GB RAM."

I never really did any rigorous measurements though, since it didn't
really seem to be important.

Still, it's interesting to know that an M3 iMac at least is less
efficient with memory than an i7 one.

Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models

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From: bitbuc...@blackhole.com (Alan Browne)
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 by: Alan Browne - Sat, 9 Mar 2024 14:46 UTC

On 2024-03-08 19:40, Alan wrote:
> On 2024-03-08 13:45, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2024-03-07 20:36, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-07 14:16, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>> On 2024-03-06 17:24, Alan wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-03-06 14:14, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>> claimed with a (large) grain of salt.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Imagine my consternation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fact is I have an Apple Silicon iMac and the numbers are plain to
>>>>>> see.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The numbers are what you CLAIM to have seen...
>>>>>
>>>>> ...but won't show screenshots to corroborate.
>>>>
>>>> I have no obligation to do so.
>>>
>>> Good. You're bright enough to know that.
>>>
>>>
>>> Are you bright enough to understand that the onus to support a claim
>>> is on the one who MAKES the claim?
>>
>> Or if one claims I'm wrong to show so themselves.
>
> No... ...that's not the way it has ever worked.
>
>>
>> Do you own an Apple Silicon Mac?  Then you can prove me wrong.
>>
>> I have nothing to prove to you and I don't care if you don't believe
>> me.   I have the numbers in front of me.  And that's just the facts.
>
> If you actually had the numbers in front of you...
>
> ...and you were technically competent (maybe that's the problem)...
>
> ...it would be trivial to prove your claims.
>
> But you don't.

I do. I put up the numbers. And that is sufficient. You see: I don't
have to "prove my claim" to you. If you don't believe what I wrote,
then that's entirely, 100%, your problem.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models

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From: bitbuc...@blackhole.com (Alan Browne)
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 by: Alan Browne - Sat, 9 Mar 2024 15:27 UTC

On 2024-03-09 07:49, Bud Frede wrote:
> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> writes:
>
>> On 2024-03-06 17:24, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-06 14:14, Alan Browne wrote:
>> claimed with a (large) grain of salt.
>>>>
>>>> Imagine my consternation.
>>>>
>>>> Fact is I have an Apple Silicon iMac and the numbers are plain to see.
>>>>
>>> The numbers are what you CLAIM to have seen...
>>> ...but won't show screenshots to corroborate.
>>
>> I have no obligation to do so.
>>
>> What you can do is go get your self an Apple Si Mac and see for yourself.
>
> I myself would not find 8GB RAM to be enough. However, my wife finds it
> to be quite usable on her M1 Macbook Air.
>
> I do prefer more storage than 256GB, but my work MBPs have only had that
> much the past several iterations and it's been fine. (I store most
> things for work in cloud storage that my workplace provides.)
>
> Theoretically, the tight coupling of CPU, GPU, RAM, and SSD on Apple
> Silicon makes it less sensitive to limited amounts of RAM, but we're not

It's not all that fantastic as my experience in same setup v. memory
allocation shows.

Past architectures (lower end intel) already had GPU using main memory
on the order of 1 - 2 GB. Other devices used memory mapped IO to some
extent. Of course the current memory bandwidth is very high, so that is
good.

Apple Si "upped the ante" - but the hype from Apple hasn't stood testing.

> yet at the point where we have really fast persistent storage and can
> thus have one big pool of memory/storage. Optane was getting closer to
> that, but I think Intel did an "OS/2" (or maybe "PS/2") to it and it
> withered on the vine.

I fantasized about such back in the 80's ... one day perhaps.

> My main home computer (the one I'm typing on now) is an M1 Mini with
> 16GB RAM and 512GB SSD. Would I like more RAM and storage? Yes. I'm ok
> without it right now though, and it doesn't get in my way normally.

A client loaned me his M2 Mini for a while (reasons) and it had 16 GB
and I don't recall the SSD. Nice machine.

> I'm not really happy with Macs no longer being upgradeable, nor with the
> prices that Apple charges for (commodity) items like RAM and
> storage. However, this Mini is a pretty amazing little box and I very
> much like using it. I can forgive Apple's sins. :-)

Regrettably I'm all in on Apple for my personal use, and very much "in"
for business use. The latter is easier to bury the costs (esp. as a Mac
in the business will be useful for 10 years or more at some posts).

I don't protest so much the memory non-upgradeability of later Macs so
much, but the prices they charge are nuts. This iMac will likely be my
main personal computer for 10 years (given my past history) - so eat the
price.

Also, I bought the M3 with the max 24 GB of RAM. Would have preferred
at least 32, 42 (yes - that's a thing) or 48 GB.

2 TB of SSD should be OK for the long term - I also have 24 TB of
external online storage and 12 TB of rotated backup storage.

> I do question why, in 2024, Apple has such paltry amounts of RAM and
> storage in their base model products. It doesn't seem fitting for a
> premium product.

Because they are profit whores. The prices they charge for the
commodity memory (RAM and SSD) is outrageous.

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models

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From: fre...@mouse-potato.com (Bud Frede)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system
Subject: Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models
Organization: Wossamotta U.
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 by: Bud Frede - Sat, 9 Mar 2024 22:20 UTC

Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> writes:

> On 2024-03-09 07:49, Bud Frede wrote:
>
>> I do question why, in 2024, Apple has such paltry amounts of RAM and
>> storage in their base model products. It doesn't seem fitting for a
>> premium product.
>
> Because they are profit whores. The prices they charge for the
> commodity memory (RAM and SSD) is outrageous.

My question was a bit rhetorical, but yeah, they bend their customers
over when it comes to RAM and storage.

Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models

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From: nuh...@nope.com (Alan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system
Subject: Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2024 09:23:12 -0700
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 by: Alan - Mon, 11 Mar 2024 16:23 UTC

On 2024-03-09 06:46, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2024-03-08 19:40, Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-03-08 13:45, Alan Browne wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-07 20:36, Alan wrote:
>>>> On 2024-03-07 14:16, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-03-06 17:24, Alan wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-03-06 14:14, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>> claimed with a (large) grain of salt.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Imagine my consternation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fact is I have an Apple Silicon iMac and the numbers are plain to
>>>>>>> see.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The numbers are what you CLAIM to have seen...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ...but won't show screenshots to corroborate.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have no obligation to do so.
>>>>
>>>> Good. You're bright enough to know that.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Are you bright enough to understand that the onus to support a claim
>>>> is on the one who MAKES the claim?
>>>
>>> Or if one claims I'm wrong to show so themselves.
>>
>> No... ...that's not the way it has ever worked.
>>
>>>
>>> Do you own an Apple Silicon Mac?  Then you can prove me wrong.
>>>
>>> I have nothing to prove to you and I don't care if you don't believe
>>> me.   I have the numbers in front of me.  And that's just the facts.
>>
>> If you actually had the numbers in front of you...
>>
>> ...and you were technically competent (maybe that's the problem)...
>>
>> ...it would be trivial to prove your claims.
>>
>> But you don't.
>
> I do.  I put up the numbers.  And that is sufficient.  You see:  I don't
> have to "prove my claim" to you.  If you don't believe what I wrote,
> then that's entirely, 100%, your problem.
>

You writing numbers in a Usenet post is just a nothing, sunshine.

And you certainly don't HAVE to do anything...

....but we're all free to draw the conclusion that if your "numbers"
weren't all bullshit, you'd have simply posted a couple of screenshots
by now.

Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models

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From: nuh...@nope.com (Alan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system
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 by: Alan - Mon, 11 Mar 2024 16:24 UTC

On 2024-03-09 07:27, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2024-03-09 07:49, Bud Frede wrote:
>> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> writes:
>>
>>> On 2024-03-06 17:24, Alan wrote:
>>>> On 2024-03-06 14:14, Alan Browne wrote:
>>> claimed with a (large) grain of salt.
>>>>>
>>>>> Imagine my consternation.
>>>>>
>>>>> Fact is I have an Apple Silicon iMac and the numbers are plain to see.
>>>>>
>>>> The numbers are what you CLAIM to have seen...
>>>> ...but won't show screenshots to corroborate.
>>>
>>> I have no obligation to do so.
>>>
>>> What you can do is go get your self an Apple Si Mac and see for
>>> yourself.
>>
>> I myself would not find 8GB RAM to be enough. However, my wife finds it
>> to be quite usable on her M1 Macbook Air.
>>
>> I do prefer more storage than 256GB, but my work MBPs have only had that
>> much the past several iterations and it's been fine. (I store most
>> things for work in cloud storage that my workplace provides.)
>>
>> Theoretically, the tight coupling of CPU, GPU, RAM, and SSD on Apple
>> Silicon makes it less sensitive to limited amounts of RAM, but we're not
>
> It's not all that fantastic as my experience in same setup v. memory
> allocation shows.
>
> Past architectures (lower end intel) already had GPU using main memory
> on the order of 1 - 2 GB.  Other devices used memory mapped IO to some
> extent.  Of course the current memory bandwidth is very high, so that is
> good.
>
> Apple Si "upped the ante" - but the hype from Apple hasn't stood testing.

Testing you won't actually show...

Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models

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 by: Alan Browne - Mon, 11 Mar 2024 21:53 UTC

On 2024-03-11 12:24, Alan wrote:
> On 2024-03-09 07:27, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2024-03-09 07:49, Bud Frede wrote:
>>> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> On 2024-03-06 17:24, Alan wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-03-06 14:14, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>> claimed with a (large) grain of salt.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Imagine my consternation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fact is I have an Apple Silicon iMac and the numbers are plain to
>>>>>> see.
>>>>>>
>>>>> The numbers are what you CLAIM to have seen...
>>>>> ...but won't show screenshots to corroborate.
>>>>
>>>> I have no obligation to do so.
>>>>
>>>> What you can do is go get your self an Apple Si Mac and see for
>>>> yourself.
>>>
>>> I myself would not find 8GB RAM to be enough. However, my wife finds it
>>> to be quite usable on her M1 Macbook Air.
>>>
>>> I do prefer more storage than 256GB, but my work MBPs have only had that
>>> much the past several iterations and it's been fine. (I store most
>>> things for work in cloud storage that my workplace provides.)
>>>
>>> Theoretically, the tight coupling of CPU, GPU, RAM, and SSD on Apple
>>> Silicon makes it less sensitive to limited amounts of RAM, but we're not
>>
>> It's not all that fantastic as my experience in same setup v. memory
>> allocation shows.
>>
>> Past architectures (lower end intel) already had GPU using main memory
>> on the order of 1 - 2 GB.  Other devices used memory mapped IO to some
>> extent.  Of course the current memory bandwidth is very high, so that
>> is good.
>>
>> Apple Si "upped the ante" - but the hype from Apple hasn't stood testing.
>
> Testing you won't actually show...

Yes or no: Do you have an Apple Si Mac?

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.

Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models

<uso1sb$3s7gj$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=1263&group=comp.sys.mac.misc#1263

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From: nuh...@nope.com (Alan)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc,comp.sys.mac.system
Subject: Re: [NEWS] Apple releases M3 MacBook Air models
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2024 15:50:51 -0700
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 by: Alan - Mon, 11 Mar 2024 22:50 UTC

On 2024-03-11 14:53, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2024-03-11 12:24, Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-03-09 07:27, Alan Browne wrote:
>>> On 2024-03-09 07:49, Bud Frede wrote:
>>>> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2024-03-06 17:24, Alan wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-03-06 14:14, Alan Browne wrote:
>>>>> claimed with a (large) grain of salt.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Imagine my consternation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fact is I have an Apple Silicon iMac and the numbers are plain to
>>>>>>> see.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> The numbers are what you CLAIM to have seen...
>>>>>> ...but won't show screenshots to corroborate.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have no obligation to do so.
>>>>>
>>>>> What you can do is go get your self an Apple Si Mac and see for
>>>>> yourself.
>>>>
>>>> I myself would not find 8GB RAM to be enough. However, my wife finds it
>>>> to be quite usable on her M1 Macbook Air.
>>>>
>>>> I do prefer more storage than 256GB, but my work MBPs have only had
>>>> that
>>>> much the past several iterations and it's been fine. (I store most
>>>> things for work in cloud storage that my workplace provides.)
>>>>
>>>> Theoretically, the tight coupling of CPU, GPU, RAM, and SSD on Apple
>>>> Silicon makes it less sensitive to limited amounts of RAM, but we're
>>>> not
>>>
>>> It's not all that fantastic as my experience in same setup v. memory
>>> allocation shows.
>>>
>>> Past architectures (lower end intel) already had GPU using main
>>> memory on the order of 1 - 2 GB.  Other devices used memory mapped IO
>>> to some extent.  Of course the current memory bandwidth is very high,
>>> so that is good.
>>>
>>> Apple Si "upped the ante" - but the hype from Apple hasn't stood
>>> testing.
>>
>> Testing you won't actually show...
>
> Yes or no: Do you have an Apple Si Mac?
>

Yes or no: could you post screenshots of what you claim you have seen?

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