Rocksolid Light

Welcome to novaBBS (click a section below)

mail  files  register  newsreader  groups  login

Message-ID:  

"Silent gratitude isn't very much use to anyone." -- G. B. Stearn


computers / comp.mail.sendmail / Re: NOTIFY=NEVER

SubjectAuthor
* NOTIFY=NEVERGrant Taylor
`* Re: NOTIFY=NEVERClaus Aßmann
 `* Re: NOTIFY=NEVERGrant Taylor
  `* Re: NOTIFY=NEVERClaus Aßmann
   `* Re: NOTIFY=NEVERGrant Taylor
    `* Re: NOTIFY=NEVERClaus Aßmann
     +* Re: NOTIFY=NEVERJim Jackson
     |`- Re: NOTIFY=NEVERGrant Taylor
     `* Re: NOTIFY=NEVERGrant Taylor
      `* Re: NOTIFY=NEVERClaus Aßmann
       `* Re: NOTIFY=NEVERGrant Taylor
        `* Re: NOTIFY=NEVERClaus Aßmann
         +* Re: NOTIFY=NEVERGrant Taylor
         |`* Re: NOTIFY=NEVERClaus Aßmann
         | `* Re: NOTIFY=NEVERGrant Taylor
         |  `* Re: NOTIFY=NEVERClaus Aßmann
         |   `* Re: NOTIFY=NEVERGrant Taylor
         |    `- Re: NOTIFY=NEVERGrant Taylor
         `- Re: NOTIFY=NEVERGrant Taylor

1
NOTIFY=NEVER

<s6c6q5$um9$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=110&group=comp.mail.sendmail#110

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.mail.sendmail
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!tncsrv06.tnetconsulting.net!tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net!.POSTED.alpha.home.tnetconsulting.net!not-for-mail
From: gtay...@tnetconsulting.net (Grant Taylor)
Newsgroups: comp.mail.sendmail
Subject: NOTIFY=NEVER
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2021 11:41:08 -0600
Organization: TNet Consulting
Message-ID: <s6c6q5$um9$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2021 17:42:29 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net; posting-host="alpha.home.tnetconsulting.net:198.18.18.251";
logging-data="31433"; mail-complaints-to="newsmaster@tnetconsulting.net"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/78.9.0
X-Mozilla-News-Host: snews://tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net:563
Content-Language: en-US
 by: Grant Taylor - Wed, 28 Apr 2021 17:41 UTC

Is there a way to change the NOTIFY to NEVER for specific recipients
when sending outgoing email?

It would be really nice if there was an access db option like the following:

To:recipient-I-dont-care-about@domain.example NOTIFY=NEVER

Even a milter would be better than what I'm dealing with now.

--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Re: NOTIFY=NEVER

<s6c7in$bd3$1@news.misty.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=111&group=comp.mail.sendmail#111

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.mail.sendmail
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!news.snarked.org!border2.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news.misty.com!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: ml+sendm...@esmtp.org (Claus Aßmann)
Newsgroups: comp.mail.sendmail
Subject: Re: NOTIFY=NEVER
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2021 17:55:35 +0000 (UTC)
Organization: MGT Consulting
Lines: 25
Sender: <ml+sendmail(-no-copies-please)@esmtp.org>
Message-ID: <s6c7in$bd3$1@news.misty.com>
References: <s6c6q5$um9$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: kiel.esmtp.org
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: news.misty.com 1619632535 11683 195.244.235.220 (28 Apr 2021 17:55:35 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: abuse@misty.com
NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2021 17:55:35 +0000 (UTC)
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test77 (Sep 1, 2010)
Originator: ca@x2.esmtp.org (Claus Assmann)
 by: Claus Aßmann - Wed, 28 Apr 2021 17:55 UTC

Grant Taylor wrote:
> Is there a way to change the NOTIFY to NEVER for specific recipients
> when sending outgoing email?

Can you be more specific? You checked the man page for mail
submission right?

-N notifications
Tag all addresses being sent as wanting the indi-
cated notifications, which consists of the word
"NEVER" or a comma-separated list of "SUCCESS",
"FAILURE", and "DELAY" for successful delivery,
failure, and a message that is stuck in a queue
somewhere. The default is "FAILURE,DELAY".

If you have multiple RCPTs, then you would have to
- use SMTP for mail submission
- split the mail according to the intended notifications.

--
Note: please read the netiquette before posting. I will almost never
reply to top-postings which include a full copy of the previous
article(s) at the end because it's annoying, shows that the poster
is too lazy to trim his article, and it's wasting the time of all readers.

Re: NOTIFY=NEVER

<s6cd4d$n7f$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=112&group=comp.mail.sendmail#112

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.mail.sendmail
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!tncsrv06.tnetconsulting.net!tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net!.POSTED.alpha.home.tnetconsulting.net!not-for-mail
From: gtay...@tnetconsulting.net (Grant Taylor)
Newsgroups: comp.mail.sendmail
Subject: Re: NOTIFY=NEVER
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2021 13:29:01 -0600
Organization: TNet Consulting
Message-ID: <s6cd4d$n7f$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>
References: <s6c6q5$um9$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>
<s6c7in$bd3$1@news.misty.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2021 19:30:21 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net; posting-host="alpha.home.tnetconsulting.net:198.18.18.251";
logging-data="23791"; mail-complaints-to="newsmaster@tnetconsulting.net"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/78.9.0
In-Reply-To: <s6c7in$bd3$1@news.misty.com>
Content-Language: en-US
 by: Grant Taylor - Wed, 28 Apr 2021 19:29 UTC

On 4/28/21 11:55 AM, Claus Aßmann wrote:
> Can you be more specific?

I'll try.

I have a process that sends ... low value ... email to a defined list of
specific recipients. It is expected that some of these emails will
fail, and that's okay for this task.

I'm about 95% certain that the messages are coming into the system via SMTP.

I was hoping to find a way to set NOTIFY to NEVER for said defined list
of specific recipients so that we don't get bounces. -- Quite
literally, just try to send the message and never notify us if there is
a problem. That's what logs are for. I don't /need/, much less /want/
the DSNs (delay and eventual fail).

> You checked the man page for mail submission right?

No, because I'm working with messages that come in via SMTP and I
thought submission would be for "<bal> | (send)mail" type submission.

--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Re: NOTIFY=NEVER

<s6ddju$q1s$1@news.misty.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=113&group=comp.mail.sendmail#113

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.mail.sendmail
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!news.snarked.org!border2.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news.misty.com!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: ml+sendm...@esmtp.org (Claus Aßmann)
Newsgroups: comp.mail.sendmail
Subject: Re: NOTIFY=NEVER
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2021 04:44:46 +0000 (UTC)
Organization: MGT Consulting
Lines: 19
Sender: <ml+sendmail(-no-copies-please)@esmtp.org>
Message-ID: <s6ddju$q1s$1@news.misty.com>
References: <s6c6q5$um9$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net> <s6c7in$bd3$1@news.misty.com> <s6cd4d$n7f$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: kiel.esmtp.org
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: news.misty.com 1619671486 26684 195.244.235.220 (29 Apr 2021 04:44:46 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: abuse@misty.com
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2021 04:44:46 +0000 (UTC)
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test77 (Sep 1, 2010)
Originator: ca@x2.esmtp.org (Claus Assmann)
 by: Claus Aßmann - Thu, 29 Apr 2021 04:44 UTC

Grant Taylor wrote:

> I was hoping to find a way to set NOTIFY to NEVER for said defined list
> of specific recipients so that we don't get bounces. -- Quite
> literally, just try to send the message and never notify us if there is
> a problem. That's what logs are for. I don't /need/, much less /want/
> the DSNs (delay and eventual fail).

As you wrote: a milter can do that, but not a ruleset.
Howver, I would use a filter to get rid of unwanted DSNs when they
come back into the system. That way you can check the logs and when
it happens too often: remove the address which generates the DSN
from the list to stop bothering the RCPT.

--
Note: please read the netiquette before posting. I will almost never
reply to top-postings which include a full copy of the previous
article(s) at the end because it's annoying, shows that the poster
is too lazy to trim his article, and it's wasting the time of all readers.

Re: NOTIFY=NEVER

<s6djdb$194$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=114&group=comp.mail.sendmail#114

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.mail.sendmail
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!tncsrv06.tnetconsulting.net!tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net!.POSTED.alpha.home.tnetconsulting.net!not-for-mail
From: gtay...@tnetconsulting.net (Grant Taylor)
Newsgroups: comp.mail.sendmail
Subject: Re: NOTIFY=NEVER
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2021 00:22:07 -0600
Organization: TNet Consulting
Message-ID: <s6djdb$194$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>
References: <s6c6q5$um9$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>
<s6c7in$bd3$1@news.misty.com> <s6cd4d$n7f$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>
<s6ddju$q1s$1@news.misty.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2021 06:23:39 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net; posting-host="alpha.home.tnetconsulting.net:198.18.18.251";
logging-data="1316"; mail-complaints-to="newsmaster@tnetconsulting.net"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/78.9.0
In-Reply-To: <s6ddju$q1s$1@news.misty.com>
Content-Language: en-US
 by: Grant Taylor - Thu, 29 Apr 2021 06:22 UTC

On 4/28/21 10:44 PM, Claus Aßmann wrote:
> As you wrote: a milter can do that, but not a ruleset.

Are you aware of any milter that has that capability presently? Or
would I be looking at rolling my own milter using well established
methodologies?

> Howver, I would use a filter to get rid of unwanted DSNs when they
> come back into the system.

Currently I /personally/ am the recipient of the DSNs and I'm just
deleting between 1 and 10 a day. -- I'm now getting tired of them and
feel like the system not sending the DSN in the first place might be a
better option.

> That way you can check the logs and when it happens too often: remove
> the address which generates the DSN from the list to stop bothering
> the RCPT.

That's not as viable of an option as you might hope. :-/

Suffice it to say that this is a very specialized use case of a mesh of
5-10 recipients / domains that willingly participate in something and
that it's quite error prone. We are happy when it works, but we expect
that there will be failures. Much like how we expect the Internet will
drop packets. Just on a different scale. We don't /like/ it, but it is
the nature of the beast and trying to change the beast will involve a
LOT more work in a LOT of different ways. So ... we delete the 1 - 10
DSNs a day.

Hence why I'm looking for a way to avoid the DSN generation.

--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Re: NOTIFY=NEVER

<s6eaqf$68k$1@news.misty.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=115&group=comp.mail.sendmail#115

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.mail.sendmail
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!news.snarked.org!border2.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news.misty.com!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: ml+sendm...@esmtp.org (Claus Aßmann)
Newsgroups: comp.mail.sendmail
Subject: Re: NOTIFY=NEVER
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2021 13:03:11 +0000 (UTC)
Organization: MGT Consulting
Lines: 20
Sender: <ml+sendmail(-no-copies-please)@esmtp.org>
Message-ID: <s6eaqf$68k$1@news.misty.com>
References: <s6c6q5$um9$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net> <s6cd4d$n7f$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net> <s6ddju$q1s$1@news.misty.com> <s6djdb$194$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: kiel.esmtp.org
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: news.misty.com 1619701391 6420 195.244.235.220 (29 Apr 2021 13:03:11 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: abuse@misty.com
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2021 13:03:11 +0000 (UTC)
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test77 (Sep 1, 2010)
Originator: ca@x2.esmtp.org (Claus Assmann)
 by: Claus Aßmann - Thu, 29 Apr 2021 13:03 UTC

Grant Taylor wrote:
> On 4/28/21 10:44 PM, Claus Aßmann wrote:
> > As you wrote: a milter can do that, but not a ruleset.

> Are you aware of any milter that has that capability presently? Or

No. Check your favorite search engine?

> would I be looking at rolling my own milter using well established
> methodologies?

Probably.

> Currently I /personally/ am the recipient of the DSNs and I'm just
> deleting between 1 and 10 a day. -- I'm now getting tired of them and

You don't filter your e-mail?

You might want to look into setting a "mailing list" using the
sendmail features, esp. wrt owner-LIST.

Re: NOTIFY=NEVER

<slrns8lerh.8ip.jj@iridium.wf32df>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=116&group=comp.mail.sendmail#116

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.mail.sendmail
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: jj...@franjam.org.uk (Jim Jackson)
Newsgroups: comp.mail.sendmail
Subject: Re: NOTIFY=NEVER
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2021 13:58:09 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 26
Message-ID: <slrns8lerh.8ip.jj@iridium.wf32df>
References: <s6c6q5$um9$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>
<s6cd4d$n7f$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>
<s6ddju$q1s$1@news.misty.com>
<s6djdb$194$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>
<s6eaqf$68k$1@news.misty.com>
Injection-Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2021 13:58:09 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="08e6fa12f52dc1f030267ff2450b12d3";
logging-data="27105"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX199tuEhFXw9SNXqFdQA9ksyRRcIdyADUjM="
User-Agent: slrn/1.0.3 (Linux)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:+Of+UsXViWVYBvaKkT/VB9WsxWg=
 by: Jim Jackson - Thu, 29 Apr 2021 13:58 UTC

On 2021-04-29, Claus A?mann <ml+sendmail@esmtp.org> wrote:
> Grant Taylor wrote:
>> On 4/28/21 10:44 PM, Claus A??mann wrote:
>> > As you wrote: a milter can do that, but not a ruleset.
>
>> Are you aware of any milter that has that capability presently? Or
>
> No. Check your favorite search engine?
>
>> would I be looking at rolling my own milter using well established
>> methodologies?
>
> Probably.
>
>> Currently I /personally/ am the recipient of the DSNs and I'm just
>> deleting between 1 and 10 a day. -- I'm now getting tired of them and
>
> You don't filter your e-mail?

+1.

I'd just add a procmail filter rule.

>
> You might want to look into setting a "mailing list" using the
> sendmail features, esp. wrt owner-LIST.

Re: NOTIFY=NEVER

<s6emd9$fpr$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=117&group=comp.mail.sendmail#117

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.mail.sendmail
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!tncsrv06.tnetconsulting.net!tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net!.POSTED.alpha.home.tnetconsulting.net!not-for-mail
From: gtay...@tnetconsulting.net (Grant Taylor)
Newsgroups: comp.mail.sendmail
Subject: Re: NOTIFY=NEVER
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2021 10:19:25 -0600
Organization: TNet Consulting
Message-ID: <s6emd9$fpr$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>
References: <s6c6q5$um9$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>
<s6cd4d$n7f$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net> <s6ddju$q1s$1@news.misty.com>
<s6djdb$194$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net> <s6eaqf$68k$1@news.misty.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2021 16:20:57 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net; posting-host="alpha.home.tnetconsulting.net:198.18.18.251";
logging-data="16187"; mail-complaints-to="newsmaster@tnetconsulting.net"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/78.9.0
In-Reply-To: <s6eaqf$68k$1@news.misty.com>
Content-Language: en-US
 by: Grant Taylor - Thu, 29 Apr 2021 16:19 UTC

On 4/29/21 7:03 AM, Claus Aßmann wrote:
> No. Check your favorite search engine?
>
> Probably.

ACK on both accounts. That's what I thought was the case.

> You don't filter your e-mail?

Oh, $DEITY, yes I filter the crap out of my email.

But there is a difference in filtering after the fact vs not sending the
messages in the first place.

I'm contemplating fixing the underlying problem of not sending the DSN
in the first place vs automating the cleanup / removal of the DSN after
the fact.

> You might want to look into setting a "mailing list" using the sendmail
> features, esp. wrt owner-LIST.

This has nothing to do with a mailing list. -- Each of a finite number
of senders sends discrete messages to the other senders in a
semi-deterministic* manner (A->B, A->C, B->C, A->D, B->A, B->C, D->A,
....) but it is definitely /not/ anything like a mailing list. If you
must, think of some higher application layer process that sends
""messages (I use the term loosely) to other participants /via/ SMTP.
Not unlike how AD supposedly can use SMTP to communicate.

*Deterministic in that the contents of an incoming message will predict
what the recipient will do, be it send an outgoing message to exactly
one of the other participants or take some other external action.

--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Re: NOTIFY=NEVER

<s6emi0$fpr$2@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=118&group=comp.mail.sendmail#118

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.mail.sendmail
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!tncsrv06.tnetconsulting.net!tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net!.POSTED.alpha.home.tnetconsulting.net!not-for-mail
From: gtay...@tnetconsulting.net (Grant Taylor)
Newsgroups: comp.mail.sendmail
Subject: Re: NOTIFY=NEVER
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2021 10:21:56 -0600
Organization: TNet Consulting
Message-ID: <s6emi0$fpr$2@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>
References: <s6c6q5$um9$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>
<s6cd4d$n7f$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net> <s6ddju$q1s$1@news.misty.com>
<s6djdb$194$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net> <s6eaqf$68k$1@news.misty.com>
<slrns8lerh.8ip.jj@iridium.wf32df>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Injection-Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2021 16:23:28 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net; posting-host="alpha.home.tnetconsulting.net:198.18.18.251";
logging-data="16187"; mail-complaints-to="newsmaster@tnetconsulting.net"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/78.9.0
In-Reply-To: <slrns8lerh.8ip.jj@iridium.wf32df>
Content-Language: en-US
 by: Grant Taylor - Thu, 29 Apr 2021 16:21 UTC

On 4/29/21 7:58 AM, Jim Jackson wrote:
> I'd just add a procmail filter rule.

I make extensive use of procmail. wc is telling me 2334 lines of procmail.

But, for this particular exercise, automating the clean up after
(filtering the DSN) the fact is still less efficient than not making the
mess in the first place (not sending the DSN).

--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Re: NOTIFY=NEVER

<s6ert9$ct0$1@news.misty.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=119&group=comp.mail.sendmail#119

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.mail.sendmail
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!news.uzoreto.com!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed8.news.xs4all.nl!fdc2.netnews.com!news-out.netnews.com!news.alt.net!fdc3.netnews.com!peer04.ams1!peer.ams1.xlned.com!news.xlned.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!border1.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news.misty.com!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: ml+sendm...@esmtp.org (Claus Aßmann)
Newsgroups: comp.mail.sendmail
Subject: Re: NOTIFY=NEVER
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2021 17:54:49 +0000 (UTC)
Organization: MGT Consulting
Lines: 22
Sender: <ml+sendmail(-no-copies-please)@esmtp.org>
Message-ID: <s6ert9$ct0$1@news.misty.com>
References: <s6c6q5$um9$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net> <s6djdb$194$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net> <s6eaqf$68k$1@news.misty.com> <s6emd9$fpr$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: kiel.esmtp.org
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: news.misty.com 1619718889 13216 195.244.235.220 (29 Apr 2021 17:54:49 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: abuse@misty.com
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2021 17:54:49 +0000 (UTC)
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test77 (Sep 1, 2010)
Originator: ca@x2.esmtp.org (Claus Assmann)
X-Received-Bytes: 1937
 by: Claus Aßmann - Thu, 29 Apr 2021 17:54 UTC

Grant Taylor wrote:

> This has nothing to do with a mailing list.

Have you actually looked at the fine documentation as I suggested?

2.6.3. List owners

If an error occurs on sending to a certain
address, say "x", sendmail will look for an alias
of the form "owner-x" to receive the errors. ....

Then you can simply discard mails to owner-x.

Oh well, I guess you want to write a milter to implement your
NOTIFY=NEVER idea.

--
Note: please read the netiquette before posting. I will almost never
reply to top-postings which include a full copy of the previous
article(s) at the end because it's annoying, shows that the poster
is too lazy to trim his article, and it's wasting the time of all readers.

Re: NOTIFY=NEVER

<s6f40i$jo9$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=120&group=comp.mail.sendmail#120

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.mail.sendmail
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!tncsrv06.tnetconsulting.net!tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net!.POSTED.alpha.home.tnetconsulting.net!not-for-mail
From: gtay...@tnetconsulting.net (Grant Taylor)
Newsgroups: comp.mail.sendmail
Subject: Re: NOTIFY=NEVER
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2021 14:11:33 -0600
Organization: TNet Consulting
Message-ID: <s6f40i$jo9$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>
References: <s6c6q5$um9$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>
<s6djdb$194$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net> <s6eaqf$68k$1@news.misty.com>
<s6emd9$fpr$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net> <s6ert9$ct0$1@news.misty.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2021 20:13:06 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net; posting-host="alpha.home.tnetconsulting.net:198.18.18.251";
logging-data="20233"; mail-complaints-to="newsmaster@tnetconsulting.net"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/78.9.0
In-Reply-To: <s6ert9$ct0$1@news.misty.com>
Content-Language: en-US
 by: Grant Taylor - Thu, 29 Apr 2021 20:11 UTC

On 4/29/21 11:54 AM, Claus Aßmann wrote:
> Have you actually looked at the fine documentation as I suggested?

I looked at the comments that you quoted.

I'm not sure which specific document you are referring to. I just did a
case insensitive recursive grep across Sendmail's source and don't see
either what you listed in your first reply to my question or what's
quoted below.

What platform are you referring to the man pages on? Linux, FreeBSD,
macOS, other?

> 2.6.3. List owners

Is this a general capability that Sendmail has? Or is it something
specifically related to mailing lists?

> If an error occurs on sending to a certain
> address, say "x", sendmail will look for an alias
> of the form "owner-x" to receive the errors. ....

I ask because the thought of Sendmail automatically falling back to
owner-x when it can't deliver to x is slightly concerning to me. I
would also have expected to have seen various hints of that behavior
over the years. E.g. z is a bad recipient and what is this owner-z
delivery attempt in logs (either the sending or receiving side).

Please provide a better pointer to the documentation you're referencing.
(See above.)

> Then you can simply discard mails to owner-x.

Yes, that is a possibility. As is the procmail filtering.

However, that's still cleaning up a mess after the fact and does nothing
to prevent making a mess in the first place.

> Oh well, I guess you want to write a milter to implement your
> NOTIFY=NEVER idea.

No, I don't /want/ to do it as in I'm not craving doing so.

I do want to do /something/ -- I don't particularly care what -- to
avoid making the mess in the first place, thus avoid needing to clean it
up after the fact.

Since I don't have control over the transient failures, I feel like the
next best thing is to arrange it so that the failures don't make a mess
via NOTIFY=NEVER.

P.S. Let's try sending this again as a followup newsgroup post as
opposed to an email. Sorry for the extra message Claus. -- I hate it
when MUA updates change buttons and don't provide an option to change them.

--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Re: NOTIFY=NEVER

<s6g5ao$t8u$1@news.misty.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=121&group=comp.mail.sendmail#121

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.mail.sendmail
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!news.uzoreto.com!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed8.news.xs4all.nl!tr2.eu1.usenetexpress.com!feeder.usenetexpress.com!tr3.iad1.usenetexpress.com!border1.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news.misty.com!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: ml+sendm...@esmtp.org (Claus Aßmann)
Newsgroups: comp.mail.sendmail
Subject: Re: NOTIFY=NEVER
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 05:41:44 +0000 (UTC)
Organization: MGT Consulting
Lines: 33
Sender: <ml+sendmail(-no-copies-please)@esmtp.org>
Message-ID: <s6g5ao$t8u$1@news.misty.com>
References: <s6c6q5$um9$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net> <s6emd9$fpr$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net> <s6ert9$ct0$1@news.misty.com> <s6f40i$jo9$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: kiel.esmtp.org
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: news.misty.com 1619761304 29982 195.244.235.220 (30 Apr 2021 05:41:44 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: abuse@misty.com
NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 05:41:44 +0000 (UTC)
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test77 (Sep 1, 2010)
Originator: ca@x2.esmtp.org (Claus Assmann)
 by: Claus Aßmann - Fri, 30 Apr 2021 05:41 UTC

Grant Taylor wrote:

> I'm not sure which specific document you are referring to. I just did a

doc/op/op.* -- the most important sendmal document.

> case insensitive recursive grep across Sendmail's source and don't see

Unless you build op.txt grep probably won't find it, you
would need a tool which can find text in ps/pdf files.

> I ask because the thought of Sendmail automatically falling back to
> owner-x when it can't deliver to x is slightly concerning to me. I

Why? It's a well established practice wrt mailing lists.
Moreover, people who can add aliases or users of that form
hopefully know what they are doing.

> would also have expected to have seen various hints of that behavior
> over the years. E.g. z is a bad recipient and what is this owner-z

well, reading the

SENDMAIL(TM)
INSTALLATION AND OPERATION GUIDE

should give "various hints" about sendmail...

--
Note: please read the netiquette before posting. I will almost never
reply to top-postings which include a full copy of the previous
article(s) at the end because it's annoying, shows that the poster
is too lazy to trim his article, and it's wasting the time of all readers.

Re: NOTIFY=NEVER

<s6gc28$c08$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=122&group=comp.mail.sendmail#122

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.mail.sendmail
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!tncsrv06.tnetconsulting.net!tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net!.POSTED.alpha.home.tnetconsulting.net!not-for-mail
From: gtay...@tnetconsulting.net (Grant Taylor)
Newsgroups: comp.mail.sendmail
Subject: Re: NOTIFY=NEVER
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 01:35:05 -0600
Organization: TNet Consulting
Message-ID: <s6gc28$c08$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>
References: <s6c6q5$um9$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>
<s6emd9$fpr$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net> <s6ert9$ct0$1@news.misty.com>
<s6f40i$jo9$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net> <s6g5ao$t8u$1@news.misty.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 07:36:40 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net; posting-host="alpha.home.tnetconsulting.net:198.18.18.251";
logging-data="12296"; mail-complaints-to="newsmaster@tnetconsulting.net"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/78.9.0
In-Reply-To: <s6g5ao$t8u$1@news.misty.com>
Content-Language: en-US
 by: Grant Taylor - Fri, 30 Apr 2021 07:35 UTC

On 4/29/21 11:41 PM, Claus Aßmann wrote:
> doc/op/op.* -- the most important sendmal document.

I'm quite aware of that document. (See below.)

> Unless you build op.txt grep probably won't find it, you would need
> a tool which can find text in ps/pdf files.

Ah.

> Why? It's a well established practice wrt mailing lists.

Yes and no. Yes, it is a well established to have owner-<listname>@ or
<listname>-owner@ email addresses. Likewise with a few other addresses.

However, those addresses are added by the receiving list administrator.
And to the best of my knowledge, humans had to tell their client to use
those addresses.

This is the no part. The idea that Sendmail would automatically fall
back to trying owner-<something>@ in the event that <something>@ failed
to send is the security exposure. E.g. I could flood <something>@ email
address, running it over quota, thus causing the receiving system to
refuse messages for <something>@. And here's the kicker, if Sendmail
will automatically fall back and try to re-send the message to
owner-<something>@, I could arrange for that to be configured on the
recipient's system (say shared hosting / ISP / etc.) such that I would
receive messages addressed to owner-<something>@ that were really
intended for <something>@.

> Moreover, people who can add aliases or users of that form hopefully
> know what they are doing.

Hopefully. But I wouldn't bet on it. Too many people just go through
the motions they read about in a How-To.

> well, reading the
>
> SENDMAIL(TM)
> INSTALLATION AND OPERATION GUIDE
>
> should give "various hints" about sendmail...

I've read a few different versions a few times over the last 20 years.
I've got a copy printed and spiral bound to read (as of a year or so ago).

--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Re: NOTIFY=NEVER

<s6gcm1$7gg$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=123&group=comp.mail.sendmail#123

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.mail.sendmail
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!tncsrv06.tnetconsulting.net!tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net!.POSTED.alpha.home.tnetconsulting.net!not-for-mail
From: gtay...@tnetconsulting.net (Grant Taylor)
Newsgroups: comp.mail.sendmail
Subject: Re: NOTIFY=NEVER
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 01:45:38 -0600
Organization: TNet Consulting
Message-ID: <s6gcm1$7gg$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>
References: <s6c6q5$um9$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>
<s6emd9$fpr$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net> <s6ert9$ct0$1@news.misty.com>
<s6f40i$jo9$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net> <s6g5ao$t8u$1@news.misty.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 07:47:13 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net; posting-host="alpha.home.tnetconsulting.net:198.18.18.251";
logging-data="7696"; mail-complaints-to="newsmaster@tnetconsulting.net"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/78.9.0
In-Reply-To: <s6g5ao$t8u$1@news.misty.com>
Content-Language: en-US
 by: Grant Taylor - Fri, 30 Apr 2021 07:45 UTC

On 4/29/21 11:41 PM, Claus Aßmann wrote:
> doc/op/op.* -- the most important sendmal document.
....
> SENDMAIL(TM)
> INSTALLATION AND OPERATION GUIDE

Having just re-read the List owners [1] and the larger The Alias
Database [2] section, it seems as if the owner-* expansion form that you
are talking about is only germane to expanding local recipients via the
aliases database. Or am I mistaken in that understanding?

So, with this assumption in mind, how is the owner-* expansion technique
going to do anything for me when the problem address is on a remote system.

Remember, the process that I'm talking about has nothing in any capacity
to do with a mailing list, neither alias expansion, nor a local mailing
list manager; e.g. Mailman.

I'm dealing with a local process that sends an email via SMTP to the MSA
on loopback from a valid local address (domain is in class w) to a valid
remote address. As if you were sending a message from your ml (at)
esmtp... address to my gtaylor (at) tnet... address and my system was
offline for 36 hours because of a problem, hypothetically an extended
power outage.

[1] https://www.sendmail.org/~ca/email/doc8.12/op-sh-2.html#sh-2.6.3" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.sendmail.org/~ca/email/doc8.12/op-sh-2.html#sh-2.6.3
[2] https://www.sendmail.org/~ca/email/doc8.12/op-sh-2.html#sh-2.6

--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Re: NOTIFY=NEVER

<s6h5bg$ads$1@news.misty.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=124&group=comp.mail.sendmail#124

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.mail.sendmail
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!feeder1.feed.usenet.farm!feed.usenet.farm!tr2.eu1.usenetexpress.com!feeder.usenetexpress.com!tr3.iad1.usenetexpress.com!border1.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news.misty.com!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: ml+sendm...@esmtp.org (Claus Aßmann)
Newsgroups: comp.mail.sendmail
Subject: Re: NOTIFY=NEVER
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 14:48:16 +0000 (UTC)
Organization: MGT Consulting
Lines: 12
Sender: <ml+sendmail(-no-copies-please)@esmtp.org>
Message-ID: <s6h5bg$ads$1@news.misty.com>
References: <s6c6q5$um9$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net> <s6f40i$jo9$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net> <s6g5ao$t8u$1@news.misty.com> <s6gc28$c08$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: kiel.esmtp.org
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: news.misty.com 1619794096 10684 195.244.235.220 (30 Apr 2021 14:48:16 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: abuse@misty.com
NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 14:48:16 +0000 (UTC)
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test77 (Sep 1, 2010)
Originator: ca@x2.esmtp.org (Claus Assmann)
 by: Claus Aßmann - Fri, 30 Apr 2021 14:48 UTC

Grant Taylor wrote:

> This is the no part. The idea that Sendmail would automatically fall
> back to trying owner-<something>@ in the event that <something>@ failed

You misunderstand the behaviour - that's not what the doc says.

--
Note: please read the netiquette before posting. I will almost never
reply to top-postings which include a full copy of the previous
article(s) at the end because it's annoying, shows that the poster
is too lazy to trim his article, and it's wasting the time of all readers.

Re: NOTIFY=NEVER

<s6ha66$vhm$2@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=125&group=comp.mail.sendmail#125

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.mail.sendmail
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!tncsrv06.tnetconsulting.net!tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net!.POSTED.alpha.home.tnetconsulting.net!not-for-mail
From: gtay...@tnetconsulting.net (Grant Taylor)
Newsgroups: comp.mail.sendmail
Subject: Re: NOTIFY=NEVER
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 10:09:11 -0600
Organization: TNet Consulting
Message-ID: <s6ha66$vhm$2@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>
References: <s6c6q5$um9$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>
<s6f40i$jo9$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net> <s6g5ao$t8u$1@news.misty.com>
<s6gc28$c08$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net> <s6h5bg$ads$1@news.misty.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 16:10:46 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net; posting-host="alpha.home.tnetconsulting.net:198.18.18.251";
logging-data="32310"; mail-complaints-to="newsmaster@tnetconsulting.net"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/78.9.0
In-Reply-To: <s6h5bg$ads$1@news.misty.com>
Content-Language: en-US
 by: Grant Taylor - Fri, 30 Apr 2021 16:09 UTC

On 4/30/21 8:48 AM, Claus Aßmann wrote:
> You misunderstand the behaviour - that's not what the doc says.

I agree that's not what the I.O.G. says. But it matches what I
understood your earlier suggestion to be.

See my reply 10 minutes after the one that you're replying to for
clarification.

My current understanding is that the owner-* trick won't work in my use
case. Which I think is a good thing from a security perspective.

--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Re: NOTIFY=NEVER

<s6hal9$cfr$1@news.misty.com>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=126&group=comp.mail.sendmail#126

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.mail.sendmail
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!feeder1.feed.usenet.farm!feed.usenet.farm!tr3.eu1.usenetexpress.com!feeder.usenetexpress.com!tr1.iad1.usenetexpress.com!border1.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news.misty.com!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: ml+sendm...@esmtp.org (Claus Aßmann)
Newsgroups: comp.mail.sendmail
Subject: Re: NOTIFY=NEVER
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 16:18:49 +0000 (UTC)
Organization: MGT Consulting
Lines: 7
Sender: <ml+sendmail(-no-copies-please)@esmtp.org>
Message-ID: <s6hal9$cfr$1@news.misty.com>
References: <s6c6q5$um9$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net> <s6gc28$c08$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net> <s6h5bg$ads$1@news.misty.com> <s6ha66$vhm$2@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: kiel.esmtp.org
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: news.misty.com 1619799529 12795 195.244.235.220 (30 Apr 2021 16:18:49 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: abuse@misty.com
NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 16:18:49 +0000 (UTC)
Mail-Copies-To: never
X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test77 (Sep 1, 2010)
Originator: ca@x2.esmtp.org (Claus Assmann)
 by: Claus Aßmann - Fri, 30 Apr 2021 16:18 UTC

Grant Taylor wrote:

> My current understanding is that the owner-* trick won't work in my use
> case. Which I think is a good thing from a security perspective.

Ok, so just let's forget my suggestion - it's not worth to spend
any more time on this.

Re: NOTIFY=NEVER

<s6i3rr$j56$2@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=127&group=comp.mail.sendmail#127

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.mail.sendmail
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!tncsrv06.tnetconsulting.net!tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net!.POSTED.alpha.home.tnetconsulting.net!not-for-mail
From: gtay...@tnetconsulting.net (Grant Taylor)
Newsgroups: comp.mail.sendmail
Subject: Re: NOTIFY=NEVER
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 17:27:24 -0600
Organization: TNet Consulting
Message-ID: <s6i3rr$j56$2@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>
References: <s6c6q5$um9$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>
<s6gc28$c08$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net> <s6h5bg$ads$1@news.misty.com>
<s6ha66$vhm$2@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net> <s6hal9$cfr$1@news.misty.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 23:28:59 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net; posting-host="alpha.home.tnetconsulting.net:198.18.18.251";
logging-data="19622"; mail-complaints-to="newsmaster@tnetconsulting.net"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/78.9.0
In-Reply-To: <s6hal9$cfr$1@news.misty.com>
Content-Language: en-US
 by: Grant Taylor - Fri, 30 Apr 2021 23:27 UTC

On 4/30/21 10:18 AM, Claus Aßmann wrote:
> Ok, so just let's forget my suggestion - it's not worth to spend
> any more time on this.

I'll try asking a different question.

Does the owner-* technique work for non-local recipients?

--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

Re: NOTIFY=NEVER

<s6i4ug$abt$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=128&group=comp.mail.sendmail#128

 copy link   Newsgroups: comp.mail.sendmail
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!tncsrv06.tnetconsulting.net!tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net!.POSTED.alpha.home.tnetconsulting.net!not-for-mail
From: gtay...@tnetconsulting.net (Grant Taylor)
Newsgroups: comp.mail.sendmail
Subject: Re: NOTIFY=NEVER
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 17:45:53 -0600
Organization: TNet Consulting
Message-ID: <s6i4ug$abt$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>
References: <s6c6q5$um9$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>
<s6gc28$c08$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net> <s6h5bg$ads$1@news.misty.com>
<s6ha66$vhm$2@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net> <s6hal9$cfr$1@news.misty.com>
<s6i3rr$j56$2@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2021 23:47:28 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net; posting-host="alpha.home.tnetconsulting.net:198.18.18.251";
logging-data="10621"; mail-complaints-to="newsmaster@tnetconsulting.net"
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/78.9.0
In-Reply-To: <s6i3rr$j56$2@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>
Content-Language: en-US
 by: Grant Taylor - Fri, 30 Apr 2021 23:45 UTC

On 4/30/21 5:27 PM, Grant Taylor wrote:
> I'll try asking a different question.
>
> Does the owner-* technique work for non-local recipients?

§2.6 — The Alias Database [1] — states that alias processing only
happens on mailers with the A flag set.

"After recipient addresses are read from the SMTP connection or command
line they are parsed by ruleset 0, which must resolve to a { mailer,
host, address} triple. If the flags selected by the mailer include the A
(aliasable) flag, the address part of the triple is looked up as the key
(i.e., the left hand side) into the alias database."

§5.4 — M -- Define Mailer [2] — has this to say about the A flag.

"Look up the user part of the address in the alias database. Normally
this is only set for local mailers."

The only mailer that I see with the A flag is the local mailer.

As such, I'm fairly certain that the *smtp* and relay mailer will not do
the owner-* alias expansion. Thus without specific information to the
contrary, I'd expect that such owner-* alias expansion will not be done
on an outgoing SMTP delivery.

[1] https://www.sendmail.org/~ca/email/doc8.12/op-sh-2.html#sh-2.6
[2] https://www.sendmail.org/~ca/email/doc8.12/op-sh-5.html#sh-5.4

--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

1
server_pubkey.txt

rocksolid light 0.9.7
clearnet tor