So the days of getting your favourite PC mag or browsing at a real store
are long over and sometimes I feel pretty much overwhelmed with the
choice available at my finger tips. I'm very much a Steam only gamer,
although there are some genre based web-sites I use, and it almost feels
that I'm putting myself in a silo and possibly missing out on some real
gems.

So my general one is look at the Steam front page and see if anything
takes my fancy. Next check the overall review score and if this is
positive have a look at some reviews. Then it goes into buy, no buy or
add to wishlist. I have also used some of the more advanced Steam search
tools which try and recommend games like one you've selected but find it
a bit hit a miss.

So any thoughts?

On 2021-11-06, JAB <noway@co.uk> wrote:
> So the days of getting your favourite PC mag or browsing at a real store
> are long over and sometimes I feel pretty much overwhelmed with the
> choice available at my finger tips. I'm very much a Steam only gamer,
> although there are some genre based web-sites I use, and it almost feels
> that I'm putting myself in a silo and possibly missing out on some real
> gems.

You hit on what I am experiencing now. I have children of the same age
as when I first got into computer games with C64 then Amiga A500. My
parents would only buy the occasional game and where I lived was rural
so swapping was out. It meant I really got into games and played the
hell out of them.

My kids today with Steam, Gog, Epic, Roblox, and Minecraft don't finish
any games. Once the fun or innovative element is gone they abandon it
for the next thing. If it gets too hard they abandon it.

Fining games is a mix of what I see people talk about on IRC and BBS.
Plus since I started lurking here I picked up a couple of
recommendations. Generally I don't play enough to exhaust all the
classics. We've been playing:

Prof Layton
Pokemon
Monkey Island (1 & 2)
Day of the Tentecle
Amoung Us
Fall Guy

I did have Wii with Homebrew and GameCube titles so played all the
classics like Spyro, Silent Hill, Paper Mario, Super Mario, Epic Mikey,
endless list. So finding new titles isn'ta priority.

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On Sat, 6 Nov 2021 10:10:33 +0000, JAB <noway@co.uk> wrote:

>So any thoughts?

The last game I bought was Darkest Dungeon. I only knew about it
because I am subbed to several gaming youtube channels. And that is
basically how I choose. If I hear about a game on youtube that looks
interesting to me, I will start watching it and wait for it to go on
sale and buy it then.

On Sat, 06 Nov 2021 11:11:29 GMT, Geeknix
<usenet@apple.geeknix135.net> wrote:

>My kids today with Steam, Gog, Epic, Roblox, and Minecraft don't finish
>any games. Once the fun or innovative element is gone they abandon it
>for the next thing. If it gets too hard they abandon it.

This reminds me of what I've seen happen in the field of software
engineering. The younger engineers (those with say, less than 20
years or so software development experience) grew up with search
engines where they got in the habit of googling for "how-to" answers
every time they got stuck. They didn't start out with raw materials
(a compiler and a few shelves full of 500+ page books). In fact most
of them don't have the attention span to finish more than the first
couple of chapters of a large technical book, because they grew up
thinking any answer can be found in a 10 min Youtube video.

Because of those "quick fix" ways to get over short-term hurdles, they
never developed true problem solving skills of their own (only search
skills), and regularly code themselves into a corner. Once in the
corner they snowflake out of it all and find a way to either get
assigned to something else, or they just start looking for a new job.

What's even worse, is that in addition to the lack of problem solving
and critical thinking skills, they also missed the opportunity to
develop their own creative thinking skills and thinking in
abstractions about ways to invent new solutions that are better than
what's already available.

I guess it all works out in the end, they jump job to job and manage
to stay employed and pay their bills. For a while I observed the
"actual talent" level remained constant as the total number of
developers increased. But now I'm starting to seeing a brain drain
where the truly talented problem solvers are slowly starting to retire
out or otherwise move on -- may be another 15-20 years before the
effects of this are really felt. For the most part we are still in
the wave of Boomer-aged retirement and most GenX-ers are still
actively working, but once that next retirement wave begins, I sort of
shudder to think about what's going to happen to a lot of mission
critical software systems across the planet.

On Saturday, November 6, 2021 at 3:10:35 AM UTC-7, JAB wrote:
> So the days of getting your favourite PC mag or browsing at a real store
> are long over and sometimes I feel pretty much overwhelmed with the
> choice available at my finger tips. I'm very much a Steam only gamer,
> although there are some genre based web-sites I use, and it almost feels
> that I'm putting myself in a silo and possibly missing out on some real
> gems.
>
> So my general one is look at the Steam front page and see if anything
> takes my fancy. Next check the overall review score and if this is
> positive have a look at some reviews. Then it goes into buy, no buy or
> add to wishlist. I have also used some of the more advanced Steam search
> tools which try and recommend games like one you've selected but find it
> a bit hit a miss.
>

That's pretty much my process. Though I go check GOG for prices
before paying, if they're within a few dollars I buy on GOG as I
don't have to worry about the Steam keeping me from playing
something the same time as my son plays a different game.

- Justisaur

On 06/11/2021 11:11, Geeknix wrote:

> You hit on what I am experiencing now. I have children of the same age
> as when I first got into computer games with C64 then Amiga A500. My
> parents would only buy the occasional game and where I lived was rural
> so swapping was out. It meant I really got into games and played the
> hell out of them.
>

We must be sworn enemies for life as I started on the Speccy 48k and
then moved onto the Atari ST!

Yeah that's a good question. The process for me is generally one of
winnowing down, or bubbling up:

I'm generally aware of what genres I prefer, or prefer to avoid -- like
mmos, mp-only, platformers -- and tend to gravitate towards story &
graphics-rich fps or tps, immersive rpgs, for example.

I've looked at many Best Games of all time lists over the years, and though
I often opt out of playing them, they help guide purchases, as does a quick
skimming of game review sites.

I frequent another general gaming forum where early adopters post thoughts
on the latest games, or point out lesser known titles they enjoyed: this
helps with the 'bubbling up' of results.

Once a game has come to my attention in this way, and especially for
lesser-known titles, I look at the steam page for it closely, especially the
reviews, and perhaps gamesite reviews as well.

I go by written reviews almost exclusively -- video clips beyond looking at
promotional clips don't interest me.

rms

Free samplers like trialwares, giveaways, demos, playing at somewhere, etc. ;)

JAB <noway@co.uk> wrote:
> So the days of getting your favourite PC mag or browsing at a real store
> are long over and sometimes I feel pretty much overwhelmed with the
> choice available at my finger tips. I'm very much a Steam only gamer,
> although there are some genre based web-sites I use, and it almost feels
> that I'm putting myself in a silo and possibly missing out on some real
> gems.

> So my general one is look at the Steam front page and see if anything
> takes my fancy. Next check the overall review score and if this is
> positive have a look at some reviews. Then it goes into buy, no buy or
> add to wishlist. I have also used some of the more advanced Steam search
> tools which try and recommend games like one you've selected but find it
> a bit hit a miss.

> So any thoughts?

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On Sat, 6 Nov 2021 10:10:33 +0000, JAB <noway@co.uk> wrote:

>So the days of getting your favourite PC mag or browsing at a real store
>are long over and sometimes I feel pretty much overwhelmed with the
>choice available at my finger tips. I'm very much a Steam only gamer,
>although there are some genre based web-sites I use, and it almost feels
>that I'm putting myself in a silo and possibly missing out on some real
>gems.

>So my general one is look at the Steam front page and see if anything
>takes my fancy. Next check the overall review score and if this is
>positive have a look at some reviews. Then it goes into buy, no buy or
>add to wishlist. I have also used some of the more advanced Steam search
>tools which try and recommend games like one you've selected but find it
>a bit hit a miss.

>So any thoughts?

When it comes to what games I buy, largely I go by price. As in, "this
game I added six years ago to my wishlist on Steam/GOG/whatever is now
down to <$5USD; time to buy!" Given the size of my existing games
library, I'm in little rush to buy the latest-and-greatest; I can
afford to wait for the price to drop dramatically. Heck, these days if
I wait long enough I may even get it for free ;-)

As to how I decide what games get put on the wishlist on the first
place, that's a combination of things. Word of mouth is one; "hey,
have you heard that ElectroniVision Games is releasing a new 'Call of
FIFA' game in November?" Various websites and youtubers make mention
of new games too, often in passing, but that's all I need to make a
note to add it to the wishlist. And - despite what you say - there are
still gaming magazines being printed and - being an old-school gamer -
I still read some of 'em (I gotta do something while on the can!). The
front-page of digital store-fronts is almost always the last resort;
rarely do I see a game there that I hadn't been aware of for long
months prior.

(the only exception is when GOG re-releases some ancient classic they
suddenly got the rights to... like the recent announcement that 360
Pacific's "Das Boot" is now available. Awesome!)

On 06/11/2021 20:20, rms wrote:
> Yeah that's a good question.  The process for me is generally one of
> winnowing down, or bubbling up:
>
> I'm generally aware of what genres I prefer, or prefer to avoid -- like
> mmos, mp-only, platformers -- and tend to gravitate towards story &
> graphics-rich fps or tps, immersive rpgs, for example.
>
> I've looked at many Best Games of all time lists over the years, and
> though I often opt out of playing them, they help guide purchases, as
> does a quick skimming of game review sites.
>
> I frequent another general gaming forum where early adopters post
> thoughts on the latest games, or point out lesser known titles they
> enjoyed:  this helps with the 'bubbling up' of results.
>
> Once a game has come to my attention in this way, and especially for
> lesser-known titles, I look at the steam page for it closely, especially
> the reviews, and perhaps gamesite reviews as well.
>
> I go by written reviews almost exclusively -- video clips beyond looking
> at promotional clips don't interest me.
>

I quite like Steam user reviews as they seem to have mostly avoided the
trap of a game is either rated as excellent or utterly useless. I did
watch are article about how did we get to a situation where anything
less than 7/10 means the game is a bit of a turkey?

Formal reviews in generally, probably my goto one is Rock, Paper,
Shotgun as there reviewers seem to have similar tastes to me.

On 06/11/2021 23:10, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> On Sat, 6 Nov 2021 10:10:33 +0000, JAB <noway@co.uk> wrote:
>
>> So the days of getting your favourite PC mag or browsing at a real store
>> are long over and sometimes I feel pretty much overwhelmed with the
>> choice available at my finger tips. I'm very much a Steam only gamer,
>> although there are some genre based web-sites I use, and it almost feels
>> that I'm putting myself in a silo and possibly missing out on some real
>> gems.
>
>> So my general one is look at the Steam front page and see if anything
>> takes my fancy. Next check the overall review score and if this is
>> positive have a look at some reviews. Then it goes into buy, no buy or
>> add to wishlist. I have also used some of the more advanced Steam search
>> tools which try and recommend games like one you've selected but find it
>> a bit hit a miss.
>
>> So any thoughts?
>
> When it comes to what games I buy, largely I go by price. As in, "this
> game I added six years ago to my wishlist on Steam/GOG/whatever is now
> down to <$5USD; time to buy!" Given the size of my existing games
> library, I'm in little rush to buy the latest-and-greatest; I can
> afford to wait for the price to drop dramatically. Heck, these days if
> I wait long enough I may even get it for free ;-)
>

Price has become far more important to me not because I can't afford
full price games but I'm at the stage of thinking why should I pay £50
for a game when I can pay less than £10 for one I'm likely to enjoy just
as much and possibly more as my expectations are lower. It also probably
helps that my phase of I like shiny graphics is long past me.

There have been some exceptions to this, so off the top of my head Disco
Elysium and Desperados III. Both of them fit into the category of
they're fairly niche in what they do, oh and having played through
Shadow Tactics three times I knew D:III was going to be enjoyable as it
was more of the same with a bit more polish.

On Mon, 8 Nov 2021 09:19:15 +0000, JAB <noway@co.uk> wrote:

>Price has become far more important to me not because I can't afford
>full price games but I'm at the stage of thinking why should I pay £50
>for a game when I can pay less than £10 for one I'm likely to enjoy just
>as much and possibly more as my expectations are lower. It also probably
>helps that my phase of I like shiny graphics is long past me.

Plus, at least for me, expensive games aren't only in competition with
their lower-priced brethren, but also my increasingly large library of
already-purchased games. I literally own more games now than I am ever
able to play*; I have to justify new games - whatever their cost -
against that backlog as much as I do with how much of a financial hit
they'll impose.

Plus, of course, new games - especially the full-priced, triple-A
experiences - don't offer as much of an endorphin hit as they did back
in the day, when everything in the industry was so new and
experimentive. In fact, given how safe the big-name players are these
days, the less-expensive 'Indie' games tend to offer more
'bang-for-the-buck' because they sometimes try something new rather
than re-treading the same old ground.

The $60USD of the full-priced game mostly pays for the high-quality
presentation of modern games - top-of-the-line graphics, exceptional
voice-acting and music - but not so much for the gameplay itself,
which is usually something we've already seen before. And when even
Indie studios can pump out games which look really good (if not quite
the quality of triple-A games), spending twice as much for just a
little more gloss 'n glitter just doesn't seem all that worth it.
Plus, it's the big, expensive games that more and more add in unwanted
extras like DLC and cosmetics and lootboxes, while the more moderately
priced Indie titles are the ones who provide the full package.

Yeah, price is a big factor in my purchases. Like you, I can afford
the full-priced games... I just don't feel I'm getting the value for
my dollar.

-----------------
* Back-of-the-napkin math here, but assuming each game takes an
average of 10 hours, and I play about ten hours per week, I have
significantly more than a century of gameplay available to me already.
Admittedly, a good chunk of those games are ones I've no interest in,
but even if I only count games I do want to play, I've still more
games I can ever play than I have hours left before I die.

I still intend to keep buying new games, though. It's not reasonable,
but its fun ;-)

On 08/11/2021 16:27, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> On Mon, 8 Nov 2021 09:19:15 +0000, JAB <noway@co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Price has become far more important to me not because I can't afford
>> full price games but I'm at the stage of thinking why should I pay £50
>> for a game when I can pay less than £10 for one I'm likely to enjoy just
>> as much and possibly more as my expectations are lower. It also probably
>> helps that my phase of I like shiny graphics is long past me.
>
> Plus, at least for me, expensive games aren't only in competition with
> their lower-priced brethren, but also my increasingly large library of
> already-purchased games. I literally own more games now than I am ever
> able to play*; I have to justify new games - whatever their cost -
> against that backlog as much as I do with how much of a financial hit
> they'll impose.
>
> Plus, of course, new games - especially the full-priced, triple-A
> experiences - don't offer as much of an endorphin hit as they did back
> in the day, when everything in the industry was so new and
> experimentive. In fact, given how safe the big-name players are these
> days, the less-expensive 'Indie' games tend to offer more
> 'bang-for-the-buck' because they sometimes try something new rather
> than re-treading the same old ground.
>

The games industry does seem to be slowly going the way of the movie
industry in terms of where the big money goes. I've not seen any actual
data but it would be interesting to see, say in the last year or so, how
many Triple-A games were based on new IP. The other part I find somewhat
depressing in terms of big budget games is there seems to have been very
little progress in using the increasing power of PC's to provide new
types of game experience that to me are real advancements. The example I
generally use is looking at FPS'es and NPC A.I. STALKER, for all it's
faults, seem to have a really good idea in trying to have a more
'independent' feel to the NPC's but now I look at the current generation
of FPS'es and the A.I. really doesn't seem that different to Halflife.

I do wonder just how substantial the Tripe-A market is and whether there
will be a point at which people will start questioning are these price
hikes justified considering what you're actually getting.

> The $60USD of the full-priced game mostly pays for the high-quality
> presentation of modern games - top-of-the-line graphics, exceptional
> voice-acting and music - but not so much for the gameplay itself,
> which is usually something we've already seen before. And when even
> Indie studios can pump out games which look really good (if not quite
> the quality of triple-A games), spending twice as much for just a
> little more gloss 'n glitter just doesn't seem all that worth it.
> Plus, it's the big, expensive games that more and more add in unwanted
> extras like DLC and cosmetics and lootboxes, while the more moderately
> priced Indie titles are the ones who provide the full package.
>

DLC I'm fine with if it comes in the form of expansions. Where I do have
a problem is when it's you want me to pay £10 for a hat or even worse in
multiplayer games when you actually get an in-game advantage.

Don't get me started on lootboxes, possibly the worse thing the games
industry has come-up with. The positive is that governments are starting
to look at them and say, this is basically gambling isn't it?

> Yeah, price is a big factor in my purchases. Like you, I can afford
> the full-priced games... I just don't feel I'm getting the value for
> my dollar.
>
> -----------------
> * Back-of-the-napkin math here, but assuming each game takes an
> average of 10 hours, and I play about ten hours per week, I have
> significantly more than a century of gameplay available to me already.
> Admittedly, a good chunk of those games are ones I've no interest in,
> but even if I only count games I do want to play, I've still more
> games I can ever play than I have hours left before I die.
>
> I still intend to keep buying new games, though. It's not reasonable,
> but its fun ;-)
>

All I can say is don't get into making model kits as I know people who
literally have hundreds of kits.

On 2021-11-06, Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:
> The
> front-page of digital store-fronts is almost always the last resort;
> rarely do I see a game there that I hadn't been aware of for long
> months prior.
>
> (the only exception is when GOG re-releases some ancient classic they
> suddenly got the rights to... like the recent announcement that 360
> Pacific's "Das Boot" is now available. Awesome!)
>

Yes! I find these 'homepages' usless for discovery, even searching
"retro" give you new games in the _style_ of retro, not real retro
games.

Aren't they meant to have powerful AI that can read my mind....

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On 2021-11-06, rms <rsquiresMOO@MOOflashMOO.net> wrote:
> I frequent another general gaming forum where early adopters post thoughts
> on the latest games, or point out lesser known titles they enjoyed: this
> helps with the 'bubbling up' of results.

Do say!?

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On 2021-11-06, JAB <noway@co.uk> wrote:
> On 06/11/2021 11:11, Geeknix wrote:
>
>> You hit on what I am experiencing now. I have children of the same age
>> as when I first got into computer games with C64 then Amiga A500. My
>> parents would only buy the occasional game and where I lived was rural
>> so swapping was out. It meant I really got into games and played the
>> hell out of them.
>>
>
> We must be sworn enemies for life as I started on the Speccy 48k and
> then moved onto the Atari ST!

The same path my friend took! In our area we were the only two with
computers at that time and for some reason went down different paths so
rarely had games in common or games to swap.

Followed by the usual A500 vs ST arguments. Atari having double the
memory and about 1MHz more CPU. But the Amiga had co-processors and
better graphics used in video processing.

At least that forced us to read the manuals for ammunition in our
ongoing flame war.

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On 09/11/2021 13:18, Geeknix wrote:
> On 2021-11-06, JAB <noway@co.uk> wrote:
>> On 06/11/2021 11:11, Geeknix wrote:
>>
>>> You hit on what I am experiencing now. I have children of the same age
>>> as when I first got into computer games with C64 then Amiga A500. My
>>> parents would only buy the occasional game and where I lived was rural
>>> so swapping was out. It meant I really got into games and played the
>>> hell out of them.
>>>
>>
>> We must be sworn enemies for life as I started on the Speccy 48k and
>> then moved onto the Atari ST!
>
> The same path my friend took! In our area we were the only two with
> computers at that time and for some reason went down different paths so
> rarely had games in common or games to swap.
>
> Followed by the usual A500 vs ST arguments. Atari having double the
> memory and about 1MHz more CPU. But the Amiga had co-processors and
> better graphics used in video processing.
>
> At least that forced us to read the manuals for ammunition in our
> ongoing flame war.
>

Arh, but we had midi, which hardly anybody used, and you could use it to
create a local network which hardly any one did either!

That's pretty much my process. Though I go check GOG for prices
before paying, if they're within a few dollars I buy on GOG as I
don't have to worry about the Steam keeping me from playing
something the same time as my son plays a different game.

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