https://www.gog.com/en/game/beholder_2

--
If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.

On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 11:55:36 -0400, Metal Guru <MetalGuru@IsItYou.com>
wrote:

>https://www.gog.com/en/game/beholder_2

Yes! Snagged! The numbers* go up-up-up!

* both 'total games in library' and 'games in the backlog waiting to
be played' ;-)

On 6/30/2023 10:52 AM, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 11:55:36 -0400, Metal Guru <MetalGuru@IsItYou.com>
> wrote:
>
>> https://www.gog.com/en/game/beholder_2
>
>
> Yes! Snagged! The numbers* go up-up-up!
>
>
>
>
>
> * both 'total games in library' and 'games in the backlog waiting to
> be played' ;-)
>
Don't forget the 'games I'll never live long enough to get to' count!

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

On Friday, June 30, 2023 at 8:55:38 AM UTC-7, Metal Guru wrote:
> https://www.gog.com/en/game/beholder_2

I got all exciting thinking that was Eye of the Beholder 2. I don't
know why, I couldn't get into the first one. In either case it's not,
and I still got it. It doesn't sound fun though.

- Justisaur

On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 11:36:19 -0700 (PDT), Justisaur
<justisaur@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, June 30, 2023 at 8:55:38?AM UTC-7, Metal Guru wrote:
>> https://www.gog.com/en/game/beholder_2

>I got all exciting thinking that was Eye of the Beholder 2. I don't
>know why, I couldn't get into the first one. In either case it's not,
>and I still got it. It doesn't sound fun though.

I'm pretty sure I've said it before, but "Eye of the Beholder 2" will
always have a special place in my heart. Not for it's gameplay,
though; God no. I HATED playing that game. Creeping through the
isolinear dungeons, step by step; peering at every wall looking for a
'secret door' switch; mapping out where you've been by littering the
dungeon floors; the awful combat 'dance'; having to keep your players
fed... and all the poisonings! It was a grindy, unpleasant game using
an obsolete engine. No, I didn't like the game for its gameplay.

But, man oh man, that intro*. The raindrop falling into the puddle;
the flickering flames in the fireplace; the limpid moistness of the
characters eyes... I couldn't imagine graphics ever getting any better
than that. It was well directed too, with excellent pacing and sound
effects.

EOB2 maintained a place on my hard-drive for YEARS simply so I could
watch and rewatch its introductory cinematic whenever I wanted. These
days I can better see the tricks and techniques used in its making,
and its effect is less dramatic. Still, I think it's very well done
for its time.

* watch it here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8gZxUmEphs
warning: very Sound Blaster FM-synth'y soundtrack :-)

On Friday, June 30, 2023 at 2:25:34 PM UTC-7, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 11:36:19 -0700 (PDT), Justisaur
> <just...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Friday, June 30, 2023 at 8:55:38?AM UTC-7, Metal Guru wrote:
> >> https://www.gog.com/en/game/beholder_2
>
> >I got all exciting thinking that was Eye of the Beholder 2. I don't
> >know why, I couldn't get into the first one. In either case it's not,
> >and I still got it. It doesn't sound fun though.
> I'm pretty sure I've said it before, but "Eye of the Beholder 2" will
> always have a special place in my heart. Not for it's gameplay,
> though; God no. I HATED playing that game. Creeping through the
> isolinear dungeons, step by step; peering at every wall looking for a
> 'secret door' switch; mapping out where you've been by littering the
> dungeon floors; the awful combat 'dance'; having to keep your players
> fed... and all the poisonings! It was a grindy, unpleasant game using
> an obsolete engine. No, I didn't like the game for its gameplay.
>
> But, man oh man, that intro*. The raindrop falling into the puddle;
> the flickering flames in the fireplace; the limpid moistness of the
> characters eyes... I couldn't imagine graphics ever getting any better
> than that. It was well directed too, with excellent pacing and sound
> effects.
>
> EOB2 maintained a place on my hard-drive for YEARS simply so I could
> watch and rewatch its introductory cinematic whenever I wanted. These
> days I can better see the tricks and techniques used in its making,
> and its effect is less dramatic. Still, I think it's very well done
> for its time.
>
>
> * watch it here:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8gZxUmEphs
> warning: very Sound Blaster FM-synth'y soundtrack :-)

Watched, not bad. I immediately said to myself, hey that architecture
looks like Lands of Lore! and so it was as it too was Westwood studios
a year or two earlier. Now there's a game I loved. Here's the intro, the
closeup on the faces are so much better, but the overland travel bits
are horrible in comparison.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBokT0HQ7jk

- Justisaur

On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 21:53:04 -0700 (PDT), Justisaur
<justisaur@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Friday, June 30, 2023 at 2:25:34?PM UTC-7, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

>> EOB2 maintained a place on my hard-drive for YEARS simply so I could
>> watch and rewatch its introductory cinematic whenever I wanted. These
>> days I can better see the tricks and techniques used in its making,
>> and its effect is less dramatic. Still, I think it's very well done
>> for its time.

>> * watch it here:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8gZxUmEphs
>> warning: very Sound Blaster FM-synth'y soundtrack :-)

>Watched, not bad. I immediately said to myself, hey that architecture
>looks like Lands of Lore! and so it was as it too was Westwood studios
>a year or two earlier. Now there's a game I loved. Here's the intro, the
>closeup on the faces are so much better, but the overland travel bits
>are horrible in comparison.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBokT0HQ7jk

"Video not available"... but that's okay. I know the one you mean (and
thanks to my immense installation of DOS games, I can view it at any
time ;-)

<waxing nostalgic mode engaged>
Westwood Studios (nee Westwood Associates) was - for the longest time
- an unappreciated also-ran studio; a tiny development house that
punched way above its weight. It was always tied to a larger publisher
- Infocom, SSI, Virgin, and finally EA - which meant it never fully
realized the fruits of their labor. But they created a wide array of
games from almost every genre: adventure, roleplaying, strategy,
simulation, platformers, casual.

Westwood was most notable for its emphasis on its production values.
The mechanics of its games were sometimes unique and innovative, but
as often were unoriginal clones of existing games. But the visuals?
They were always great. Their games usually weren't cutting edge in
technology, but they had some excellent artists who were able to make
the best of what was available to them. Their games were rarely
revolutionary, but rather were evolutions of existing ideas with added
polish and flair.

And they definitely had their own art style, something that was most
obvious during the DOS era. It's not hard to see the artistic
similarities between games like "Kyrandia", "Eye of the Beholder",
Lands of Lore", and even titles like "Command and Conquer", "Dune" and
"Dragonstrike". They had an eye for color, an ear for music and a
seemingly instinctual knowledge of how scenes came together that was
rarely matched by others.

Westwood was never at the top when it came to pushing the envelope
technologically, or with the most modern and compelling gameplay. In
those regards, they tended to be followers rather than leaders. But
when playing a Westwood game, you were usually assured of quality and
spectacle, and it's for that reason that Westwood games often lingered
on my hard-drive long after my interest in the gameplay waned.

Some Westwood games of note: How many have you played?

Battletech: Crescent Hawk games * Circuits Edge * Donalds Alphabet
Chase (& Mickey's Runaway Zoo) * DragonStrike * Mines of Titan (aka
Mars Saga) * Eye of the Beholder games * Kyrandia games * Dune II
Lands of Lore games * Command & Conquer games * Toonstruck *
Lion King * Monopoly CD-ROM (1995) * Blade Runner

<waxing nostalgic mode terminated>

On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 17:25:20 -0400, Spalls Hurgenson
<spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:

>I'm pretty sure I've said it before, but "Eye of the Beholder 2" will
>always have a special place in my heart. Not for it's gameplay,
>though; God no. I HATED playing that game. Creeping through the
>isolinear dungeons, step by step; peering at every wall looking for a
>'secret door' switch; mapping out where you've been by littering the
>dungeon floors; the awful combat 'dance'; having to keep your players
>fed... and all the poisonings! It was a grindy, unpleasant game using
>an obsolete engine. No, I didn't like the game for its gameplay.

I loved Eye 2 for all the reasons you hated it. Well... maybe not the
bumping into walls part looking to see if they are illusionary. I
didn't like that at all.

I never actually did the combat dance thing (known today as the
Grimrock Shuffle), I just stood there taking the hits and healed my
party afterwards. That worked most of the time.

And I agree, the intro was very impressive for its time.

On Saturday, July 1, 2023 at 6:04:49 AM UTC-7, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 21:53:04 -0700 (PDT), Justisaur
> <just...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Friday, June 30, 2023 at 2:25:34?PM UTC-7, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>
> >> EOB2 maintained a place on my hard-drive for YEARS simply so I could
> >> watch and rewatch its introductory cinematic whenever I wanted. These
> >> days I can better see the tricks and techniques used in its making,
> >> and its effect is less dramatic. Still, I think it's very well done
> >> for its time.
>
> >> * watch it here:
> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8gZxUmEphs
> >> warning: very Sound Blaster FM-synth'y soundtrack :-)
>
> >Watched, not bad. I immediately said to myself, hey that architecture
> >looks like Lands of Lore! and so it was as it too was Westwood studios
> >a year or two earlier. Now there's a game I loved. Here's the intro, the
> >closeup on the faces are so much better, but the overland travel bits
> >are horrible in comparison.
> >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBokT0HQ7jk
> "Video not available"... but that's okay. I know the one you mean (and
> thanks to my immense installation of DOS games, I can view it at any
> time ;-)
>
> <waxing nostalgic mode engaged>
> Westwood Studios (nee Westwood Associates) was - for the longest time
> - an unappreciated also-ran studio; a tiny development house that
> punched way above its weight. It was always tied to a larger publisher
> - Infocom, SSI, Virgin, and finally EA - which meant it never fully
> realized the fruits of their labor. But they created a wide array of
> games from almost every genre: adventure, roleplaying, strategy,
> simulation, platformers, casual.
>
> Westwood was most notable for its emphasis on its production values.
> The mechanics of its games were sometimes unique and innovative, but
> as often were unoriginal clones of existing games. But the visuals?
> They were always great. Their games usually weren't cutting edge in
> technology, but they had some excellent artists who were able to make
> the best of what was available to them. Their games were rarely
> revolutionary, but rather were evolutions of existing ideas with added
> polish and flair.
>
> And they definitely had their own art style, something that was most
> obvious during the DOS era. It's not hard to see the artistic
> similarities between games like "Kyrandia", "Eye of the Beholder",
> Lands of Lore", and even titles like "Command and Conquer", "Dune" and
> "Dragonstrike". They had an eye for color, an ear for music and a
> seemingly instinctual knowledge of how scenes came together that was
> rarely matched by others.
>
> Westwood was never at the top when it came to pushing the envelope
> technologically, or with the most modern and compelling gameplay. In
> those regards, they tended to be followers rather than leaders. But
> when playing a Westwood game, you were usually assured of quality and
> spectacle, and it's for that reason that Westwood games often lingered
> on my hard-drive long after my interest in the gameplay waned.
>
>
> Some Westwood games of note: How many have you played?
>
> Battletech: Crescent Hawk games * Circuits Edge * Donalds Alphabet
> Chase (& Mickey's Runaway Zoo) * DragonStrike * Mines of Titan (aka
> Mars Saga) * Eye of the Beholder games * Kyrandia games * Dune II
> Lands of Lore games * Command & Conquer games * Toonstruck *
> Lion King * Monopoly CD-ROM (1995) * Blade Runner

Surprisingly very few. Mines of Titan was a favorite, Both Lands of Lore,
though II was far worse. I attempted EoB once but didn't get very far.

I saw Dragonstrike is on sale on GoG right now for $4.01, I almost bought
it, but wasn't quite sure. I bought far too many games there yesterday
afternoon, and burned through all of $12! :)

- Justisaur

On Sun, 2 Jul 2023 17:23:16 -0700 (PDT), Justisaur
<justisaur@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, July 1, 2023 at 6:04:49?AM UTC-7, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>> On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 21:53:04 -0700 (PDT), Justisaur
>> <just...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >On Friday, June 30, 2023 at 2:25:34?PM UTC-7, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>>
>> >> EOB2 maintained a place on my hard-drive for YEARS simply so I could
>> >> watch and rewatch its introductory cinematic whenever I wanted. These
>> >> days I can better see the tricks and techniques used in its making,
>> >> and its effect is less dramatic. Still, I think it's very well done
>> >> for its time.
>>
>> >> * watch it here:
>> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8gZxUmEphs
>> >> warning: very Sound Blaster FM-synth'y soundtrack :-)
>>
>> >Watched, not bad. I immediately said to myself, hey that architecture
>> >looks like Lands of Lore! and so it was as it too was Westwood studios
>> >a year or two earlier. Now there's a game I loved. Here's the intro, the
>> >closeup on the faces are so much better, but the overland travel bits
>> >are horrible in comparison.
>> >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBokT0HQ7jk
>> "Video not available"... but that's okay. I know the one you mean (and
>> thanks to my immense installation of DOS games, I can view it at any
>> time ;-)
>>
>> <waxing nostalgic mode engaged>
>> Westwood Studios (nee Westwood Associates) was - for the longest time
>> - an unappreciated also-ran studio; a tiny development house that
>> punched way above its weight. It was always tied to a larger publisher
>> - Infocom, SSI, Virgin, and finally EA - which meant it never fully
>> realized the fruits of their labor. But they created a wide array of
>> games from almost every genre: adventure, roleplaying, strategy,
>> simulation, platformers, casual.
>>
>> Westwood was most notable for its emphasis on its production values.
>> The mechanics of its games were sometimes unique and innovative, but
>> as often were unoriginal clones of existing games. But the visuals?
>> They were always great. Their games usually weren't cutting edge in
>> technology, but they had some excellent artists who were able to make
>> the best of what was available to them. Their games were rarely
>> revolutionary, but rather were evolutions of existing ideas with added
>> polish and flair.
>>
>> And they definitely had their own art style, something that was most
>> obvious during the DOS era. It's not hard to see the artistic
>> similarities between games like "Kyrandia", "Eye of the Beholder",
>> Lands of Lore", and even titles like "Command and Conquer", "Dune" and
>> "Dragonstrike". They had an eye for color, an ear for music and a
>> seemingly instinctual knowledge of how scenes came together that was
>> rarely matched by others.
>>
>> Westwood was never at the top when it came to pushing the envelope
>> technologically, or with the most modern and compelling gameplay. In
>> those regards, they tended to be followers rather than leaders. But
>> when playing a Westwood game, you were usually assured of quality and
>> spectacle, and it's for that reason that Westwood games often lingered
>> on my hard-drive long after my interest in the gameplay waned.
>>
>>
>> Some Westwood games of note: How many have you played?
>>
>> Battletech: Crescent Hawk games * Circuits Edge * Donalds Alphabet
>> Chase (& Mickey's Runaway Zoo) * DragonStrike * Mines of Titan (aka
>> Mars Saga) * Eye of the Beholder games * Kyrandia games * Dune II
>> Lands of Lore games * Command & Conquer games * Toonstruck *
>> Lion King * Monopoly CD-ROM (1995) * Blade Runner
>
>Surprisingly very few. Mines of Titan was a favorite, Both Lands of Lore,
>though II was far worse. I attempted EoB once but didn't get very far.
>
>I saw Dragonstrike is on sale on GoG right now for $4.01, I almost bought
>it, but wasn't quite sure. I bought far too many games there yesterday
>afternoon, and burned through all of $12! :)

"Dragonstrike" was more intriguing than it was fun. The idea of a
'dragon flight simulator' is exciting, but the technology of the era
really wasn't able to do it justice (I think the first game that did
it well was probably 1999's "Drakan: The Order of the Flame").

Visually, "Dragonstrike" was actually quite impressive, with shaded
polygons and fairly well detailed (for 1990) sprites, all moving at a
fairly impressive framerate. But it never really felt like you were
flying a living, breathing dragon; rather, it felt like you were
clumsily piloting a not-very-manueverable plane. The missions
themselves got fairly repetitive too.

But the game sure featured some pretty artwork (admittedly, the best
bits were digitally scanned versions of covers used in the original
D&D rulebooks).

TL;DR: unless you're a die-hard collector of D&D games, "Dragonstrike"
isn't worth the purchase.

On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 17:25:20 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

>On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 11:36:19 -0700 (PDT), Justisaur
><justisaur@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Friday, June 30, 2023 at 8:55:38?AM UTC-7, Metal Guru wrote:
>>> https://www.gog.com/en/game/beholder_2
>
>>I got all exciting thinking that was Eye of the Beholder 2. I don't
>>know why, I couldn't get into the first one. In either case it's not,
>>and I still got it. It doesn't sound fun though.
>
>* watch it here:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8gZxUmEphs
>warning: very Sound Blaster FM-synth'y soundtrack :-)
>
Great. Now I'm watching the entire let's play. Curse you Spalls!

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

On Tue, 04 Jul 2023 10:56:24 -0500, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 17:25:20 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
>Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 11:36:19 -0700 (PDT), Justisaur
>><justisaur@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Friday, June 30, 2023 at 8:55:38?AM UTC-7, Metal Guru wrote:
>>>> https://www.gog.com/en/game/beholder_2
>>
>>>I got all exciting thinking that was Eye of the Beholder 2. I don't
>>>know why, I couldn't get into the first one. In either case it's not,
>>>and I still got it. It doesn't sound fun though.
>>
>>* watch it here:
>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8gZxUmEphs
>>warning: very Sound Blaster FM-synth'y soundtrack :-)
>>
>Great. Now I'm watching the entire let's play. Curse you Spalls!

On the one hand... cool! Because, like I've said, Westwood games are
spectacles for the senses, and even thirty years later "Eye of the
Beholder 2" is a gorgeous game to watch.

On the other hand, I can't imagine its gameplay is enthralling enough
to entertain any but the most masochistic watcher for too long. I
could barely tolerate wandering its mazelike dungeons with identical
looking rooms and corridors when I was PLAYING the game; without the
'thrill' of combat and getting lost to challenge me, there just isn't
enough content in the game (God knows there isn't much of a narrative)

I suppose if the person doing the LetsPlay is particularly
knowledgable about the game and can get through it with a minimum of
backtracking and nonsense it might be worth the time. It would really
determined by how long the LetsPlay takes. I could probably endure
three or four hours, just to see all the game has to offer. Longer
than that and I'd be gouging out my eyes.

Still, now I'm tempted to point Zaghadka to other 90s-era LetsPlays.
Masochistic I'm not, but sadistic? Just a little. ;-)

On Tue, 04 Jul 2023 12:39:07 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

>On Tue, 04 Jul 2023 10:56:24 -0500, Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 17:25:20 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
>>Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 30 Jun 2023 11:36:19 -0700 (PDT), Justisaur
>>><justisaur@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Friday, June 30, 2023 at 8:55:38?AM UTC-7, Metal Guru wrote:
>>>>> https://www.gog.com/en/game/beholder_2
>>>
>>>>I got all exciting thinking that was Eye of the Beholder 2. I don't
>>>>know why, I couldn't get into the first one. In either case it's not,
>>>>and I still got it. It doesn't sound fun though.
>>>
>>>* watch it here:
>>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8gZxUmEphs
>>>warning: very Sound Blaster FM-synth'y soundtrack :-)
>>>
>>Great. Now I'm watching the entire let's play. Curse you Spalls!
>
>On the one hand... cool! Because, like I've said, Westwood games are
>spectacles for the senses, and even thirty years later "Eye of the
>Beholder 2" is a gorgeous game to watch.
>
>On the other hand, I can't imagine its gameplay is enthralling enough
>to entertain any but the most masochistic watcher for too long.

Actually, the guy roleplays the entire party (with voices) - and is quite
amusing - so that's why I'm watching for now.

Join us.

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

On Wed, 05 Jul 2023 09:05:05 -0500, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
Zaghadka wrote:

>Actually, the guy roleplays the entire party (with voices) - and is quite
>amusing - so that's why I'm watching for now.
>
VERWARNUNG: Skip to the gameplay. There's a painful preamble where he
sets up the game. It is pain.

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten