While "Star Wars: The Old Republic" was never the sequel to the
"Knights of the Old Republic" games that I wanted, it was still a
fairly impressive production. While designed as an MMO, it nonetheless
featured a very strong campaign (several of them, in fact) that could
be played in single-player. It was unique - for its time, at least -
in being the first fully-voiced MMO, indicative of how much work was
put into making the story an important component of the game.

So it's somewhat disheartening to see EA take the game out of
Bioware's hands and pass it over Broadsword studios. Not so much
because I distrust Broadsword's handling of the service (honestly,
I've no idea as to whether they're up to the task or not) as it is a
unhappiness as to Electronic Art's continued diminishment of Bioware.

Because, of course, that's what EA does. It purchases great
development studios, pushes them to crank out sequels, drives out the
most creative team members, and then finally closes the studio
entirely (although often keeping the name alive to be slapped on new
projects). And I think that "The Old Republic" being taken away from
Bioware is a sign of the final stages of Bioware's "EA-ification".

There's more to it, of course. Doubtlessly the changing licensing
situation of the Star Wars IP - for the longest time, solely granted
to Electronic Arts, but now being made available to Ubisoft and others
- plays a role in this decision. Maturation of the product, flagging
sales of the game and new Bioware projects may also be affecting this
decision. But handing "Old Republic" to another studio also indicates
a lack of faith by EA in Bioware being able to manage it and create
new projects. EA could give Bioware more resources, but are chosing
not to.

Still, the Bioware of today isn't really the Bioware we remember so
fondly; all the best creatives and leads have left for greener
pastures. It isn't the same studio that created the classics we know
and remember so fondly.

Am 03.07.23 um 17:41 schrieb Spalls Hurgenson:
> Because, of course, that's what EA does. It purchases great
> development studios, pushes them to crank out sequels, drives out the
> most creative team members, and then finally closes the studio
> entirely (although often keeping the name alive to be slapped on new
> projects). And I think that "The Old Republic" being taken away from
> Bioware is a sign of the final stages of Bioware's "EA-ification".
Bioware is basically Origin in slow motion, the minute EA bought the
Studio I knew it was the end of it. Any studio which cannot crank out
yearly sequels like their sports studio is imminently on a path to doom.
Bioware simply was never a studio like that, it was closer to Origin,
being able to produce a well working title which generates cash but then
has a drought within the next development cycle, in the end this works
out but does not generated yearly cash and sometimes if a title fails
exptectations produces the occasional cash drought!
How such a model fits into a maximum the cash income model of EA nobody
really knows and EA has not figured it out as sustainable model, they
just know how to milk the cow until it is dry!

On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 09:12:46 +0200, "Werner P." <werpu@gmx.at> wrote:

>Am 03.07.23 um 17:41 schrieb Spalls Hurgenson:
>> Because, of course, that's what EA does. It purchases great
>> development studios, pushes them to crank out sequels, drives out the
>> most creative team members, and then finally closes the studio
>> entirely (although often keeping the name alive to be slapped on new
>> projects). And I think that "The Old Republic" being taken away from
>> Bioware is a sign of the final stages of Bioware's "EA-ification".

>Bioware is basically Origin in slow motion, the minute EA bought the
>Studio I knew it was the end of it. Any studio which cannot crank out
>yearly sequels like their sports studio is imminently on a path to doom.
>Bioware simply was never a studio like that, it was closer to Origin,
>being able to produce a well working title which generates cash but then
>has a drought within the next development cycle, in the end this works
>out but does not generated yearly cash and sometimes if a title fails
>exptectations produces the occasional cash drought!

Not just Origin. They did it with Westwood too; nothing but "Command
and Conquer" games until the inevitable end. Maxis just cranks out DLC
for "The Sims" (with an occasional platform upgrade to keep the gravy
train going).

Inevitably, Bioware will die too. And I fully expect that - ten years
after that happens - EA will release a new product (perhaps some sort
of smart-watch medical app) re-using the company name, just because
they own the IP. And maybe just to rub it in the faces of fans of the
classic games.

Am 05.07.23 um 14:14 schrieb Spalls Hurgenson:
> Inevitably, Bioware will die too. And I fully expect that - ten years
> after that happens - EA will release a new product (perhaps some sort
> of smart-watch medical app) re-using the company name, just because
> they own the IP. And maybe just to rub it in the faces of fans of the
> classic games.
Definitely it is a shame how they treated the Origin brand and the
Ultima franchise, EA simply was too stupid to do anything with all the
assets origin had.
Look how Square basically built an empire on Final Fantasy while EA
tanked literally Ultima which was the western final fantasy, Wing
Commander, which had cornered space action sims, and Ultima Online and
now literally any asset Bioware has had built so far.
If it was not for their sports franchises EA probably would have gone
bankrupt in the 90s simply by its own studpidity it started to develop
after a constant cash cow was discovered.

On Wed, 05 Jul 2023 08:14:50 -0400, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

>On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 09:12:46 +0200, "Werner P." <werpu@gmx.at> wrote:
>
>>Am 03.07.23 um 17:41 schrieb Spalls Hurgenson:
>>> Because, of course, that's what EA does. It purchases great
>>> development studios, pushes them to crank out sequels, drives out the
>>> most creative team members, and then finally closes the studio
>>> entirely (although often keeping the name alive to be slapped on new
>>> projects). And I think that "The Old Republic" being taken away from
>>> Bioware is a sign of the final stages of Bioware's "EA-ification".
>
>>Bioware is basically Origin in slow motion, the minute EA bought the
>>Studio I knew it was the end of it. Any studio which cannot crank out
>>yearly sequels like their sports studio is imminently on a path to doom.
>>Bioware simply was never a studio like that, it was closer to Origin,
>>being able to produce a well working title which generates cash but then
>>has a drought within the next development cycle, in the end this works
>>out but does not generated yearly cash and sometimes if a title fails
>>exptectations produces the occasional cash drought!
>
>Not just Origin. They did it with Westwood too; nothing but "Command
>and Conquer" games until the inevitable end. Maxis just cranks out DLC
>for "The Sims" (with an occasional platform upgrade to keep the gravy
>train going).
>
>Inevitably, Bioware will die too. And I fully expect that - ten years
>after that happens - EA will release a new product (perhaps some sort
>of smart-watch medical app) re-using the company name, just because
>they own the IP. And maybe just to rub it in the faces of fans of the
>classic games.
>
It'll be a VR product I bet. Bioware haptic suit.

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

I never got to play this MMORPG version. :(

Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:

> While "Star Wars: The Old Republic" was never the sequel to the
> "Knights of the Old Republic" games that I wanted, it was still a
> fairly impressive production. While designed as an MMO, it nonetheless
> featured a very strong campaign (several of them, in fact) that could
> be played in single-player. It was unique - for its time, at least -
> in being the first fully-voiced MMO, indicative of how much work was
> put into making the story an important component of the game.

> So it's somewhat disheartening to see EA take the game out of
> Bioware's hands and pass it over Broadsword studios. Not so much
> because I distrust Broadsword's handling of the service (honestly,
> I've no idea as to whether they're up to the task or not) as it is a
> unhappiness as to Electronic Art's continued diminishment of Bioware.

> Because, of course, that's what EA does. It purchases great
> development studios, pushes them to crank out sequels, drives out the
> most creative team members, and then finally closes the studio
> entirely (although often keeping the name alive to be slapped on new
> projects). And I think that "The Old Republic" being taken away from
> Bioware is a sign of the final stages of Bioware's "EA-ification".

> There's more to it, of course. Doubtlessly the changing licensing
> situation of the Star Wars IP - for the longest time, solely granted
> to Electronic Arts, but now being made available to Ubisoft and others
> - plays a role in this decision. Maturation of the product, flagging
> sales of the game and new Bioware projects may also be affecting this
> decision. But handing "Old Republic" to another studio also indicates
> a lack of faith by EA in Bioware being able to manage it and create
> new projects. EA could give Bioware more resources, but are chosing
> not to.

> Still, the Bioware of today isn't really the Bioware we remember so
> fondly; all the best creatives and leads have left for greener
> pastures. It isn't the same studio that created the classics we know
> and remember so fondly.

--
"In [Christ] and through faith in him we may approach God with freedom and confidence." --Ephesians 3:12. Bad AQ after bad Independence Day. Thanks USA. Still recovering from a flying stingy social insect's stinger & fall, getting hot, bugs, etc. :(
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org.
/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o o| |
\ _ /
( )

On Wed, 05 Jul 2023 16:18:02 +0000, ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:
>Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:

>> While "Star Wars: The Old Republic" was never the sequel to the
>> "Knights of the Old Republic" games that I wanted, it was still a
>> fairly impressive production. While designed as an MMO, it nonetheless
>> featured a very strong campaign (several of them, in fact) that could
>> be played in single-player. It was unique - for its time, at least -
>> in being the first fully-voiced MMO, indicative of how much work was
>> put into making the story an important component of the game.

>I never got to play this MMORPG version. :(

You still can. The product is still available through Steam
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1286830/STAR_WARS_The_Old_Republic/
(although obviously you'll need to create a separate account for the
service itself).

In fact, since the game went free-to-play a number of years ago, you
can try without any (monetary) risk. You /CAN/ pay for extras - more
storage space, more character slots, access to all the expansions,
higher level cap, various other goodies - but it is not necessary,
especially if you are mostly interested in the main campaign. /THAT/
you can play entirely free, and - given much of it has been entwined
with MMORPG trappings - it's actually pretty good.

If you're more interested in the MMO aspect, though, you may wish to
invest in a monthly subscription. Or not. I'm not really qualified to
judge.

There's no evidence (yet) that "The Old Republic" is ending anytime
soon. Still, if you are interested in experiencing the game, better to
do it sooner than later. MMORPG don't have infinite lifespans.

Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 05 Jul 2023 16:18:02 +0000, ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:
> >Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:

> >> While "Star Wars: The Old Republic" was never the sequel to the
> >> "Knights of the Old Republic" games that I wanted, it was still a
> >> fairly impressive production. While designed as an MMO, it nonetheless
> >> featured a very strong campaign (several of them, in fact) that could
> >> be played in single-player. It was unique - for its time, at least -
> >> in being the first fully-voiced MMO, indicative of how much work was
> >> put into making the story an important component of the game.

> >I never got to play this MMORPG version. :(

> You still can. The product is still available through Steam
> https://store.steampowered.com/app/1286830/STAR_WARS_The_Old_Republic/
> (although obviously you'll need to create a separate account for the
> service itself).

> In fact, since the game went free-to-play a number of years ago, you
> can try without any (monetary) risk. You /CAN/ pay for extras - more
> storage space, more character slots, access to all the expansions,
> higher level cap, various other goodies - but it is not necessary,
> especially if you are mostly interested in the main campaign. /THAT/
> you can play entirely free, and - given much of it has been entwined
> with MMORPG trappings - it's actually pretty good.

> If you're more interested in the MMO aspect, though, you may wish to
> invest in a monthly subscription. Or not. I'm not really qualified to
> judge.

> There's no evidence (yet) that "The Old Republic" is ending anytime
> soon. Still, if you are interested in experiencing the game, better to
> do it sooner than later. MMORPG don't have infinite lifespans.

Ah, not dead yet. I just don't have time. I assume the game is grindy too.
--
"In [Christ] and through faith in him we may approach God with freedom and confidence." --Ephesians 3:12. Bad AQ after bad Independence Day. Thanks USA. Still recovering from a flying stingy social insect's stinger & fall, getting hot, bugs, etc. :(
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org.
/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o o| |
\ _ /
( )

On Wed, 05 Jul 2023 19:38:46 +0000, ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:

>Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 05 Jul 2023 16:18:02 +0000, ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:

>> >I never got to play this MMORPG version. :(

>> You still can. The product is still available through Steam
>> https://store.steampowered.com/app/1286830/STAR_WARS_The_Old_Republic/
>> (although obviously you'll need to create a separate account for the
>> service itself).

>Ah, not dead yet. I just don't have time. I assume the game is grindy too.

For an MMORPG? Not really. Oh, there's some grind but compared to the
bulk of the genre? Remarkably little. I was able to get through most
of the main quest without doing too many side-quests, and almost none
of the 'bring me twenty space-bear skins' sort. A lot of those quests
are more necessary for leveling up gear to be competitive in the PVP
arenas, but the single-player was pretty straight-forward.

That said, I played the game six years ago, so I've no idea if its
changed in that regard. But it was already free-to-play back then, and
- in the little I've been following it in the six years since - I
haven't seen any indication that it's changed that much.

Still, regardless of its grindyness, it IS a large open-world RPG so
it will still suck down a big chunk of your time (I think it took me
thirty or forty hours to finish the single campaign I did. If you play
as all the characters, expect multiples of that). I wasn't inclined to
keep going after my one run-through, but I didn't regret my time with
the game, even though I generally don't care for MMORPGs.

So I say, give it a try anyway. At the very least, you can bail out
after an hour or three. At best, it will fill your need for an "Old
Republic" adventure.

On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 12:38:58 PM UTC-7, Ant wrote:
> Spalls Hurgenson <spallsh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Wed, 05 Jul 2023 16:18:02 +0000, a...@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:
> > >Spalls Hurgenson <spallsh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >> While "Star Wars: The Old Republic" was never the sequel to the
> > >> "Knights of the Old Republic" games that I wanted, it was still a
> > >> fairly impressive production. While designed as an MMO, it nonetheless
> > >> featured a very strong campaign (several of them, in fact) that could
> > >> be played in single-player. It was unique - for its time, at least -
> > >> in being the first fully-voiced MMO, indicative of how much work was
> > >> put into making the story an important component of the game.
>
>
>
> > >I never got to play this MMORPG version. :(
>
>
> > You still can. The product is still available through Steam
> > https://store.steampowered.com/app/1286830/STAR_WARS_The_Old_Republic/
> > (although obviously you'll need to create a separate account for the
> > service itself).
>
> > In fact, since the game went free-to-play a number of years ago, you
> > can try without any (monetary) risk. You /CAN/ pay for extras - more
> > storage space, more character slots, access to all the expansions,
> > higher level cap, various other goodies - but it is not necessary,
> > especially if you are mostly interested in the main campaign. /THAT/
> > you can play entirely free, and - given much of it has been entwined
> > with MMORPG trappings - it's actually pretty good.
>
> > If you're more interested in the MMO aspect, though, you may wish to
> > invest in a monthly subscription. Or not. I'm not really qualified to
> > judge.
>
> > There's no evidence (yet) that "The Old Republic" is ending anytime
> > soon. Still, if you are interested in experiencing the game, better to
> > do it sooner than later. MMORPG don't have infinite lifespans.
> Ah, not dead yet. I just don't have time. I assume the game is grindy too..

It's been a very long time since I played, so it's likely it changed, but like
most games it started out not so grindy.

The one thing I did find almost necessary was subbing as otherwise
your movement was extremely slow between places. Again not sure
if that's been changed.

The campaign is pretty fun, especially on the Sith side from what I
remember. You can go pretty much more toward neutral, and there's
a great questline involving Revan. At least as far as I got before
I got bored/it got grindy.

Obviously not as good as KotR but it's up there. I *almost* have a
hankering to try it again, but I try to keep myself away from MMORPGs.

- Justisaur

Hi I'm Justisaur and I'm an MMORPGcoholic!
I'm 2 years and 9 months since my last relapse (City of Heroes.)

Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 05 Jul 2023 19:38:46 +0000, ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:

> >Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Wed, 05 Jul 2023 16:18:02 +0000, ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) wrote:

> >> >I never got to play this MMORPG version. :(

> >> You still can. The product is still available through Steam
> >> https://store.steampowered.com/app/1286830/STAR_WARS_The_Old_Republic/
> >> (although obviously you'll need to create a separate account for the
> >> service itself).

> >Ah, not dead yet. I just don't have time. I assume the game is grindy too.

> For an MMORPG? Not really. Oh, there's some grind but compared to the
> bulk of the genre? Remarkably little. I was able to get through most
> of the main quest without doing too many side-quests, and almost none
> of the 'bring me twenty space-bear skins' sort. A lot of those quests
> are more necessary for leveling up gear to be competitive in the PVP
> arenas, but the single-player was pretty straight-forward.

> That said, I played the game six years ago, so I've no idea if its
> changed in that regard. But it was already free-to-play back then, and
> - in the little I've been following it in the six years since - I
> haven't seen any indication that it's changed that much.

> Still, regardless of its grindyness, it IS a large open-world RPG so
> it will still suck down a big chunk of your time (I think it took me
> thirty or forty hours to finish the single campaign I did. If you play
> as all the characters, expect multiples of that). I wasn't inclined to
> keep going after my one run-through, but I didn't regret my time with
> the game, even though I generally don't care for MMORPGs.

> So I say, give it a try anyway. At the very least, you can bail out
> after an hour or three. At best, it will fill your need for an "Old
> Republic" adventure.

Wait, there's an end game with it main quest? I remember playing SW Galaxies. Nice, but grindy.
--
"In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of his robe filled the temple." --Isaiah 6:1. Not a slammy Thursday?
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org.
/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o o| |
\ _ /
( )