I need to edit a hospital form and I'm trying to run down a pdf EDITOR
that will run on 10.11.6 El Cap.

I downloaded the 5.7.0 version of PDFelement from MacUpdate with a
"Dec. 23 2016" release date and the thing demanded OS 10.12 for some
reason.

I will try anything except an Adobe product because I'm sure as hell
not subscribing to anything (or subscribing/canceling).

In article <sf1bke$o49$1@dont-email.me>, super70s
<super70s@super70s.invalid> wrote:

> I need to edit a hospital form and I'm trying to run down a pdf EDITOR
> that will run on 10.11.6 El Cap.

forms are easy.

preview, included with mac os will do it.

> I downloaded the 5.7.0 version of PDFelement from MacUpdate with a
> "Dec. 23 2016" release date and the thing demanded OS 10.12 for some
> reason.

10.12 is several years old.

> I will try anything except an Adobe product because I'm sure as hell
> not subscribing to anything (or subscribing/canceling).

acrobat reader is not subscription.

On 2021-08-11 20:23:42 +0000, super70s said:

> I need to edit a hospital form and I'm trying to run down a pdf EDITOR
> that will run on 10.11.6 El Cap.
>
> I downloaded the 5.7.0 version of PDFelement from MacUpdate with a
> "Dec. 23 2016" release date and the thing demanded OS 10.12 for some
> reason.
>
> I will try anything except an Adobe product because I'm sure as hell
> not subscribing to anything (or subscribing/canceling).

If you simply mean filling out the form, then a PDF properly created
for being filled out on the computer should work in Preview.

For a form not created for filling out on the computer, then:

- if it is not a protected PDF, then you can import it
into a word processor or DTP app and place text boxes
over the top where you ewant to type details.

- if it is a protected PDF, you might have to first
make screengrabs of each page in Preview, then import
those into the word processor / DTP app. They will
be screen quality though, so may be better to print
and rescan them ... in which case you may as well
simply handwrite the detail ont ot eh printed forms,
as they were probably designed to be filled out.

If you actually mean *editing* the forms, then you'll have to be a
hospital employee with permission to do so.

On 2021-08-11 16:23, super70s wrote:
> I need to edit a hospital form and I'm trying to run down a pdf EDITOR
> that will run on 10.11.6 El Cap.

Preview had problems with a number of forms in the past. It has gotten
better with more recent versions. If it doesn't work for your PDF in
your version of OS-X, I suggest the Adobe Reader if you can find a
version old enough to work on your OS version.

(Adobe Reader is free, doesn't require subscription and generally not
evil).

In article <0aYQI.8824$cd2.2706@fx02.iad>, JF Mezei
<jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> > I need to edit a hospital form and I'm trying to run down a pdf EDITOR
> > that will run on 10.11.6 El Cap.
>
>
> Preview had problems with a number of forms in the past.

very few

> It has gotten
> better with more recent versions.

there have been ui changes, but very little has changed with pdf
rendering, which is part of mac os, not preview.

> If it doesn't work for your PDF in
> your version of OS-X, I suggest the Adobe Reader if you can find a
> version old enough to work on your OS version.
>
> (Adobe Reader is free, doesn't require subscription and generally not
> evil).

at least you got something correct.

On 11-Aug-2021 at 2:03:00PM PDT, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

> On 2021-08-11 20:23:42 +0000, super70s said:
>
>> I need to edit a hospital form and I'm trying to run down a pdf EDITOR
>> that will run on 10.11.6 El Cap.
>>
>> I downloaded the 5.7.0 version of PDFelement from MacUpdate with a
>> "Dec. 23 2016" release date and the thing demanded OS 10.12 for some
>> reason.
>>
>> I will try anything except an Adobe product because I'm sure as hell
>> not subscribing to anything (or subscribing/canceling).
>
> If you simply mean filling out the form, then a PDF properly created
> for being filled out on the computer should work in Preview.
>
> For a form not created for filling out on the computer, then:
>
> - if it is not a protected PDF, then you can import it
> into a word processor or DTP app and place text boxes
> over the top where you ewant to type details.
>
> - if it is a protected PDF, you might have to first
> make screengrabs of each page in Preview, then import
> those into the word processor / DTP app. They will
> be screen quality though, so may be better to print
> and rescan them ... in which case you may as well
> simply handwrite the detail ont ot eh printed forms,
> as they were probably designed to be filled out.
>
>
> If you actually mean *editing* the forms, then you'll have to be a
> hospital employee with permission to do so.

Last year, I needed a 1099 form to submit to the IRS declaring
I'd paid someone over $600 for a class. These forms have to be
TYPED and mailed into the IRS. You can also fill it out by hand.

I screwed up the form I had with the wrong info, so downloaded the
1099 from the IRS web site (the offices were closed and wouldn't be
mailing out actual copies), used an old copy of Distiller to fill out
the form by inserting text on various lines and printed out the file.
I sent that to the IRS. It should be 2-3 years before I hear back.

You can also use Preview's Text Annotate one line at at time to
fill in text fields with font of your choice. Save the resulting file as
a separate name from the original and send in the annotated
version.

If the hospital won't accept that, contact your insurance company
and complain.
--
DeeDee, don't press that button! DeeDee! NO! Dee...

On 2021-08-12 04:17:53 +0000, Percival John Hackworth said:
> On 11-Aug-2021 at 2:03:00PM PDT, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>> On 2021-08-11 20:23:42 +0000, super70s said:
>>
>>> I need to edit a hospital form and I'm trying to run down a pdf EDITOR
>>> that will run on 10.11.6 El Cap.
>>>
>>> I downloaded the 5.7.0 version of PDFelement from MacUpdate with a
>>> "Dec. 23 2016" release date and the thing demanded OS 10.12 for some
>>> reason.
>>>
>>> I will try anything except an Adobe product because I'm sure as hell
>>> not subscribing to anything (or subscribing/canceling).
>>
>> If you simply mean filling out the form, then a PDF properly created
>> for being filled out on the computer should work in Preview.
>>
>> For a form not created for filling out on the computer, then:
>>
>> - if it is not a protected PDF, then you can import it
>> into a word processor or DTP app and place text boxes
>> over the top where you ewant to type details.
>>
>> - if it is a protected PDF, you might have to first
>> make screengrabs of each page in Preview, then import
>> those into the word processor / DTP app. They will
>> be screen quality though, so may be better to print
>> and rescan them ... in which case you may as well
>> simply handwrite the detail ont ot eh printed forms,
>> as they were probably designed to be filled out.
>>
>>
>> If you actually mean *editing* the forms, then you'll have to be a
>> hospital employee with permission to do so.
>
> Last year, I needed a 1099 form to submit to the IRS declaring
> I'd paid someone over $600 for a class. These forms have to be
> TYPED and mailed into the IRS. You can also fill it out by hand.
>
> I screwed up the form I had with the wrong info, so downloaded the
> 1099 from the IRS web site (the offices were closed and wouldn't be
> mailing out actual copies), used an old copy of Distiller to fill out
> the form by inserting text on various lines and printed out the file.
> I sent that to the IRS. It should be 2-3 years before I hear back.
>
> You can also use Preview's Text Annotate one line at at time to
> fill in text fields with font of your choice. Save the resulting file as
> a separate name from the original and send in the annotated
> version.
>
> If the hospital won't accept that, contact your insurance company
> and complain.

The main issue with many forms is that they legally need a proper
signature. In some cases you can get around that by inserting an image
of your signature onto the form.

In article <injlnhF1c03U1@mid.individual.net>,
Percival John Hackworth <pjh@nanoworks.com> wrote:

> On 11-Aug-2021 at 2:03:00PM PDT, "Your Name" <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>
> > On 2021-08-11 20:23:42 +0000, super70s said:
> >
> >> I need to edit a hospital form and I'm trying to run down a pdf EDITOR
> >> that will run on 10.11.6 El Cap.
> >>
> >> I downloaded the 5.7.0 version of PDFelement from MacUpdate with a
> >> "Dec. 23 2016" release date and the thing demanded OS 10.12 for some
> >> reason.
> >>
> >> I will try anything except an Adobe product because I'm sure as hell
> >> not subscribing to anything (or subscribing/canceling).
> >
> > If you simply mean filling out the form, then a PDF properly created
> > for being filled out on the computer should work in Preview.
> >
> > For a form not created for filling out on the computer, then:
> >
> > - if it is not a protected PDF, then you can import it
> > into a word processor or DTP app and place text boxes
> > over the top where you ewant to type details.
> >
> > - if it is a protected PDF, you might have to first
> > make screengrabs of each page in Preview, then import
> > those into the word processor / DTP app. They will
> > be screen quality though, so may be better to print
> > and rescan them ... in which case you may as well
> > simply handwrite the detail ont ot eh printed forms,
> > as they were probably designed to be filled out.
> >
> >
> > If you actually mean *editing* the forms, then you'll have to be a
> > hospital employee with permission to do so.

No I don't want to edit it in that sense.

> Last year, I needed a 1099 form to submit to the IRS declaring
> I'd paid someone over $600 for a class. These forms have to be
> TYPED and mailed into the IRS. You can also fill it out by hand.
>
> I screwed up the form I had with the wrong info, so downloaded the
> 1099 from the IRS web site (the offices were closed and wouldn't be
> mailing out actual copies), used an old copy of Distiller to fill out
> the form by inserting text on various lines and printed out the file.
> I sent that to the IRS. It should be 2-3 years before I hear back.

Yes I want to insert text into the form fields, many respondents
apparently didn't understand (even though I said "editor" as opposed to
"reader").

> You can also use Preview's Text Annotate one line at at time to
> fill in text fields with font of your choice. Save the resulting file as
> a separate name from the original and send in the annotated
> version.

I did not realize Preview had that feature now, I guess I'm too used to
using an ancient version on my other older system that is "read only."

I just printed the form out, filled it out by hand, and snail mailed it
in that way. It probably won't take any longer for them to process than
if I'd emailed it in (knowing the backlog of financial assistance forms
hospitals probably have these days).

In article <110820211639148369%nospam@nospam.invalid>,
nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> > I downloaded the 5.7.0 version of PDFelement from MacUpdate with a
> > "Dec. 23 2016" release date and the thing demanded OS 10.12 for some
> > reason.
>
> 10.12 is several years old.

You don't say. 10.11.6's last update was was 7/9/18 so I don't
understand why an app released on 12/23/16 would demand 10.12 Sierra,
unless it had several updates until the next version itself.

In article <sf2d9m$47e$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Your Name
<YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

>
> The main issue with many forms is that they legally need a proper
> signature. In some cases you can get around that by inserting an image
> of your signature onto the form.

these days, most places accept an electronic signature, usually /s/ and
the person's name, or just print the filled out version and sign it.
it's also possible to sign on the trackpad with one's finger, which can
then be placed, but that usually doesn't look anything like the
person's actual signature.

In article
<super70s-46BEB6.02533912082021@reader.eternal-september.org>, super70s
<super70s@super70s.invalid> wrote:

> I did not realize Preview had that feature now, I guess I'm too used to
> using an ancient version on my other older system that is "read only."

forms are part of pdf, and preview always supported it.

In message <super70s-AA4B96.03025912082021@reader.eternal-september.org> super70s <super70s@super70s.invalid> wrote:
> In article <110820211639148369%nospam@nospam.invalid>,
> nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>> > I downloaded the 5.7.0 version of PDFelement from MacUpdate with a
>> > "Dec. 23 2016" release date and the thing demanded OS 10.12 for some
>> > reason.
>>
>> 10.12 is several years old.

> You don't say. 10.11.6's last update was was 7/9/18 so I don't
> understand why an app released on 12/23/16 would demand 10.12 Sierra,

Because it was compiled against the 10.12 SDK, obviously.

--
Sam, I thought I told you never to play--

On 2021-08-12 09:15, nospam wrote:

> forms are part of pdf, and preview always supported it.

Forms was not part of original PDF. Not all of thge older software was
able to properly deal with forms. They'd display the document but didn't
have the hooks to add text entry.

Preview in older OS-X was one such example and this was updated at one
point to have proper support for forms.

In article <xgkRI.592$SX.29@fx03.iad>, JF Mezei
<jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

>
> > forms are part of pdf, and preview always supported it.
>
> Forms was not part of original PDF.

pdf predates mac os x.

On 2021-08-11 20:39:14 +0000, nospam said:

> In article <sf1bke$o49$1@dont-email.me>, super70s
> <super70s@super70s.invalid> wrote:
>
>> I need to edit a hospital form and I'm trying to run down a pdf EDITOR
>> that will run on 10.11.6 El Cap.
>
> forms are easy.
>
> preview, included with mac os will do it.

Skim, not included with Mac OS, but free and easy to get, will also do it.
>
>> I downloaded the 5.7.0 version of PDFelement from MacUpdate with a
>> "Dec. 23 2016" release date and the thing demanded OS 10.12 for some
>> reason.
>
> 10.12 is several years old.
>
>> I will try anything except an Adobe product because I'm sure as hell
>> not subscribing to anything (or subscribing/canceling).
>
> acrobat reader is not subscription.

--
Athel -- French and British, living mainly in England until 1987.

In article <ins2qqFnepqU1@mid.individual.net>, Athel Cornish-Bowden
<acornish@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:

> >> I need to edit a hospital form and I'm trying to run down a pdf EDITOR
> >> that will run on 10.11.6 El Cap.
> >
> > forms are easy.
> >
> > preview, included with mac os will do it.
>
> Skim, not included with Mac OS, but free and easy to get, will also do it.

no need for anything else, since preview is included

On Sunday, August 15, 2021 at 2:07:14 AM UTC-7, nospam wrote:
> In article <ins2qq...@mid.individual.net>, Athel Cornish-Bowden
> <acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:
>
> > >> I need to edit a hospital form and I'm trying to run down a pdf EDITOR
> > >> that will run on 10.11.6 El Cap.
> > >
> > > forms are easy.
> > >
> > > preview, included with mac os will do it.
> >
> > Skim, not included with Mac OS, but free and easy to get, will also do it.
> no need for anything else, since preview is included

I know you can use Preview to fill in a form and like some body said you can use Annotate to mark it up but how can Preview edit a PDF?? The OP put "EDITOR" in all caps so he wants to change the form.

In article <1fe67b4d-7e0c-4fdf-8c56-92e867319438n@googlegroups.com>,
Connor Shannon <cshannon1898@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > >> I need to edit a hospital form and I'm trying to run down a pdf EDITOR
> > > >> that will run on 10.11.6 El Cap.
> > > >
> > > > forms are easy.
> > > >
> > > > preview, included with mac os will do it.
> > >
> > > Skim, not included with Mac OS, but free and easy to get, will also do it.
> > no need for anything else, since preview is included
>
> I know you can use Preview to fill in a form and like some body said you can
> use Annotate to mark it up but how can Preview edit a PDF?? The OP put
> "EDITOR" in all caps so he wants to change the form.

he means fill out the form. he did not realize that forms are a key
feature of pdf, one which does not require a pdf editor.

On 2021-08-16 16:11, nospam wrote:

> he means fill out the form. he did not realize that forms are a key
> feature of pdf, one which does not require a pdf editor.

And you keep omitting the fact that the version of OS-X he is running
predates proper form support in Preview.

In article <woASI.92241$805.38341@fx43.iad>, JF Mezei
<jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

>
> > he means fill out the form. he did not realize that forms are a key
> > feature of pdf, one which does not require a pdf editor.
>
>
> And you keep omitting the fact that the version of OS-X he is running
> predates proper form support in Preview.

that is very much *not* a fact.

On 2021-08-16 20:04:47 +0000, Connor Shannon said:

> On Sunday, August 15, 2021 at 2:07:14 AM UTC-7, nospam wrote:
>> In article <ins2qq...@mid.individual.net>, Athel Cornish-Bowden
>> <acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I need to edit a hospital form and I'm trying to run down a pdf EDITOR
>>>>> that will run on 10.11.6 El Cap.
>>>>
>>>> forms are easy.
>>>>
>>>> preview, included with mac os will do it.
>>>
>>> Skim, not included with Mac OS, but free and easy to get, will also do it.
>>
>> no need for anything else, since preview is included
>
> I know you can use Preview to fill in a form and like some body said
> you can use Annotate to mark it up but how can Preview edit a PDF?? The
> OP put "EDITOR" in all caps so he wants to change the form.

The OP did not want to actually edit the form, simply fill in the fields.

"Yes I want to insert text into the form fields, many
respondents apparently didn't understand (even though
I said "editor" as opposed to "reader")."

Many readers will allow you to fill in a form, *if* the PDF has been
set-up properly to allow that. If it hasn't then you need an editor or
another workaround (such as importing into an app like Pages and
overlaying the field text).

In article <sfel2j$1g2s$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Your Name
<YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

>
> Many readers will allow you to fill in a form, *if* the PDF has been
> set-up properly to allow that.

obviously the pdf has to be a fillable form for it to work.

> If it hasn't then you need an editor or
> another workaround (such as importing into an app like Pages and
> overlaying the field text).

nope. text items can be overlaid in preview, along with shapes (e.g.,
to circle an item or add an arrow pointing to something), highlighting
blocks of text and much more.

In message <woASI.92241$805.38341@fx43.iad> JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> On 2021-08-16 16:11, nospam wrote:

>> he means fill out the form. he did not realize that forms are a key
>> feature of pdf, one which does not require a pdf editor.

> And you keep omitting the fact that the version of OS-X he is running
> predates proper form support in Preview.

Bullshit.

--
"you'd think you could trust a horde of hungarian barbarians"