Why are hardly any entry remailer related mail hosts
allowing direct packet delivery, at least through Tor?

On 2022-09-24 11:19, Nomen Nescio wrote:
> Why are hardly any entry remailer related mail hosts
> allowing direct packet delivery, at least through Tor?

Different Tor hidden services have very different configs.
Have you looked at <https://www.sec3.net/misc/mail-relays.txt>

--
SEC3

YAMN Tutorials - https://sec3.net/yamnhelp

SEC3 <admin@sec3.net> wrote:

>On 2022-09-24 11:19, Nomen Nescio wrote:
>> Why are hardly any entry remailer related mail hosts
>> allowing direct packet delivery, at least through Tor?
>
>Different Tor hidden services have very different configs.
>Have you looked at <https://www.sec3.net/misc/mail-relays.txt>

It's not about mail relays but entry remailer related mail hosts, which
I get by means of an MX nameserver request.

But even your list doesn't reflect access through a Tor exit, as that
way for example I got no access to fleegle.mixmin.net:25. And I think
for serious remailing packet output through the Tor network is
mandatory.

On 2022-09-25 14:52, Nomen Nescio wrote:
> SEC3 <admin@sec3.net> wrote:
>
>> On 2022-09-24 11:19, Nomen Nescio wrote:
>>> Why are hardly any entry remailer related mail hosts
>>> allowing direct packet delivery, at least through Tor?
>>
>> Different Tor hidden services have very different configs.
>> Have you looked at <https://www.sec3.net/misc/mail-relays.txt>
>
> It's not about mail relays but entry remailer related mail hosts, which
> I get by means of an MX nameserver request.

I guess I don't understand what you're after. It kind of sounds like you
are seeking a remailer smtp server that is an open relay.
Looking at a server's MX records won't provide you with that
functionality. Maybe back in the 1990s. But not these days.

> But even your list doesn't reflect access through a Tor exit, as that
> way for example I got no access to fleegle.mixmin.net:25. And I think
> for serious remailing packet output through the Tor network is
> mandatory.

--
SEC3

YAMN Tutorials - https://sec3.net/yamnhelp

On 9/25/2022 11:52 AM, Nomen Nescio wrote:

> SEC3 <admin@sec3.net> wrote:
>
>> On 2022-09-24 11:19, Nomen Nescio wrote:
>>> Why are hardly any entry remailer related mail hosts
>>> allowing direct packet delivery, at least through Tor?
>>
>> Different Tor hidden services have very different configs.
>> Have you looked at <https://www.sec3.net/misc/mail-relays.txt>
>
> It's not about mail relays but entry remailer related mail hosts,
which
> I get by means of an MX nameserver request.
>
> But even your list doesn't reflect access through a Tor exit, as that
> way for example I got no access to fleegle.mixmin.net:25. And I think
> for serious remailing packet output through the Tor network is
> mandatory.
>

a6sy4mr4vpnnfhlop2vthsi4heaonouxtrat2hpz2dzbcf45twpxvzyd.onion:25*
b42o7yhesx3fon7bzak4rkq7ax2yoanzapykqpzyznil6obcybe3zlyd.onion:25 and
465 587 2525
3fd6guyxldqnjaqtfzejnjvq6bj7ilv5u7g7ovbubhwoeqhc222zvrad.onion:25
6wlmvflobk2ztvvfdese4y3zpkigsx2qbz5v6bfkamijnwifnxgpw6id.onion:2525

Use one of these mail hosts.

That way your injection point is Tor.

The first remailer in your chain only knows your Tor exit node.

You're anonymous.

In article <07f875394c0d9f274517e5558aca3b94@dizum.com>
Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> wrote:
>
> On 9/25/2022 11:52 AM, Nomen Nescio wrote:
>
> > SEC3 <admin@sec3.net> wrote:
> >
> >> On 2022-09-24 11:19, Nomen Nescio wrote:
> >>> Why are hardly any entry remailer related mail hosts
> >>> allowing direct packet delivery, at least through Tor?
> >>
> >> Different Tor hidden services have very different configs.
> >> Have you looked at <https://www.sec3.net/misc/mail-relays.txt>
> >
> > It's not about mail relays but entry remailer related mail hosts,
> which
> > I get by means of an MX nameserver request.
> >
> > But even your list doesn't reflect access through a Tor exit, as that
> > way for example I got no access to fleegle.mixmin.net:25. And I think
> > for serious remailing packet output through the Tor network is
> > mandatory.
> >
>
>
> a6sy4mr4vpnnfhlop2vthsi4heaonouxtrat2hpz2dzbcf45twpxvzyd.onion:25*
> b42o7yhesx3fon7bzak4rkq7ax2yoanzapykqpzyznil6obcybe3zlyd.onion:25 and
> 465 587 2525
> 3fd6guyxldqnjaqtfzejnjvq6bj7ilv5u7g7ovbubhwoeqhc222zvrad.onion:25
> 6wlmvflobk2ztvvfdese4y3zpkigsx2qbz5v6bfkamijnwifnxgpw6id.onion:2525
>
> Use one of these mail hosts.
>
> That way your injection point is Tor.
>
> The first remailer in your chain only knows your Tor exit node.
>
> You're anonymous.

This is what the OP was asking about.

nslookup -querytype=mx remailer.frell.eu.org
Server: xxxxxx.xxxxxx.com
Address: 192.168.xxx.x

Non-authoritative answer:
remailer.frell.eu.org MX preference = 5, mail exchanger =
a6sy4mr4vpnnfhlop2vthsi4heaonouxtrat2hpz2dzbcf45twpxvzyd.onion
remailer.frell.eu.org MX preference = 10, mail exchanger =
mail2.frell.eu.org

mail2.frell.eu.org internet address = 85.10.240.254
mail2.frell.eu.org AAAA IPv6 address = 2a01:4f8:141:282::7:3

Note the MX / mail exchangers.

The OP requested how to send directly to those hosts.

For frell, any of these ports, 25, 587, 2525
For krautrelay, 25
For banana, 25, 2525

NOTE THE CHAIN. Port 25 appears to be randomly blocked on some
Tor connections.

a6sy4mr4vpnnfhlop2vthsi4heaonouxtrat2hpz2dzbcf45twpxvzyd.onion
mail2.frell.eu.org

Chain: frell,*,*,*; copies=n;

nslookup -querytype=mx krautrelay.kraut.space
Server: xxxxxx.xxxxx.com
Address: 192.168.xxx.x

Non-authoritative answer:
krautrelay.kraut.space MX preference = 10, mail exchanger =
krautrelay.kraut.space

krautrelay.kraut.space internet address = 5.181.51.40

Chain: krautrelay,*,*,*; copies=n;

Server: xxxxxx.xxxxxx.com
Address: 192.168.xxx.x

Non-authoritative answer:
mixmaster.mixmin.net MX preference = 10, mail exchanger =
fleegle.mixmin.net

fleegle.mixmin.net internet address = 144.76.182.167
fleegle.mixmin.net AAAA IPv6 address = 2a01:4f8:200:60a6::2

Chain: banana,*,*,*; copies=n;

See if you can figure this one out. It works.

nslookup -querytype=mx tnetconsulting.net

On 2022-09-26 11:08, Nomen Nescio wrote:
> In article <07f875394c0d9f274517e5558aca3b94@dizum.com>
> Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 9/25/2022 11:52 AM, Nomen Nescio wrote:
>>
>>> SEC3 <admin@sec3.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2022-09-24 11:19, Nomen Nescio wrote:
>>>>> Why are hardly any entry remailer related mail hosts
>>>>> allowing direct packet delivery, at least through Tor?
>>>>
>>>> Different Tor hidden services have very different configs.
>>>> Have you looked at <https://www.sec3.net/misc/mail-relays.txt>
>>>
>>> It's not about mail relays but entry remailer related mail hosts,
>> which
>>> I get by means of an MX nameserver request.
>>>
>>> But even your list doesn't reflect access through a Tor exit, as that
>>> way for example I got no access to fleegle.mixmin.net:25. And I think
>>> for serious remailing packet output through the Tor network is
>>> mandatory.
>>>
>>
>>
>> a6sy4mr4vpnnfhlop2vthsi4heaonouxtrat2hpz2dzbcf45twpxvzyd.onion:25*
>> b42o7yhesx3fon7bzak4rkq7ax2yoanzapykqpzyznil6obcybe3zlyd.onion:25 and
>> 465 587 2525
>> 3fd6guyxldqnjaqtfzejnjvq6bj7ilv5u7g7ovbubhwoeqhc222zvrad.onion:25
>> 6wlmvflobk2ztvvfdese4y3zpkigsx2qbz5v6bfkamijnwifnxgpw6id.onion:2525
>>
>> Use one of these mail hosts.
>>
>> That way your injection point is Tor.
>>
>> The first remailer in your chain only knows your Tor exit node.
>>
>> You're anonymous.
>
>
> This is what the OP was asking about.
>
> nslookup -querytype=mx remailer.frell.eu.org
> Server: xxxxxx.xxxxxx.com
> Address: 192.168.xxx.x
>
> Non-authoritative answer:
> remailer.frell.eu.org MX preference = 5, mail exchanger =
> a6sy4mr4vpnnfhlop2vthsi4heaonouxtrat2hpz2dzbcf45twpxvzyd.onion
> remailer.frell.eu.org MX preference = 10, mail exchanger =
> mail2.frell.eu.org
>
> mail2.frell.eu.org internet address = 85.10.240.254
> mail2.frell.eu.org AAAA IPv6 address = 2a01:4f8:141:282::7:3
>
>
> Note the MX / mail exchangers.
>
> The OP requested how to send directly to those hosts.
>
> For frell, any of these ports, 25, 587, 2525
> For krautrelay, 25
> For banana, 25, 2525
>
> NOTE THE CHAIN. Port 25 appears to be randomly blocked on some
> Tor connections.
>
> a6sy4mr4vpnnfhlop2vthsi4heaonouxtrat2hpz2dzbcf45twpxvzyd.onion
> mail2.frell.eu.org
>
> Chain: frell,*,*,*; copies=n;
>
> nslookup -querytype=mx krautrelay.kraut.space
> Server: xxxxxx.xxxxx.com
> Address: 192.168.xxx.x
>
> Non-authoritative answer:
> krautrelay.kraut.space MX preference = 10, mail exchanger =
> krautrelay.kraut.space
>
> krautrelay.kraut.space internet address = 5.181.51.40
>
> Chain: krautrelay,*,*,*; copies=n;
>
> Server: xxxxxx.xxxxxx.com
> Address: 192.168.xxx.x
>
> Non-authoritative answer:
> mixmaster.mixmin.net MX preference = 10, mail exchanger =
> fleegle.mixmin.net
>
> fleegle.mixmin.net internet address = 144.76.182.167
> fleegle.mixmin.net AAAA IPv6 address = 2a01:4f8:200:60a6::2
>
> Chain: banana,*,*,*; copies=n;
>
> See if you can figure this one out. It works.
>
> nslookup -querytype=mx tnetconsulting.net

It's incorrect to suggest that connecting to *any* remailer server
(using its MX record or some other name) is going to allow you to relay
your message. Some will relay and some won't. I created
<https://www.sec3.net/misc/mail-relays.txt> to tell people which ones do
relay.

As evidence, here is one that *doesn't* allowing relaying.
krautrelay.kraut.space
Look:

====================
luser@debian:~$ telnet krautrelay.kraut.space 25
Trying 5.181.51.40...
Connected to krautrelay.kraut.space.
Escape character is '^]'.
220 krautrelay.kraut.space ESMTP Postfix (Debian/GNU)
ehlo myhost.entrydns.org
250-krautrelay.kraut.space
250-PIPELINING
250-SIZE 10240000
250-VRFY
250-ETRN
250-STARTTLS
250-ENHANCEDSTATUSCODES
250-8BITMIME
250-DSN
250-SMTPUTF8
250 CHUNKING
mail from: anonymous@anonymous.com
250 2.1.0 Ok
rcpt to: mixmaster@remailer.paranoici.org
554 5.7.1 <mixmaster@remailer.paranoici.org>: Relay access denied
quit
221 2.0.0 Bye
Connection closed by foreign host.
=====================

--
SEC3

YAMN Tutorials - https://sec3.net/yamnhelp

Nomen Nescio wrote:
>
> Why are hardly any entry remailer related mail hosts
> allowing direct packet delivery, at least through Tor?
>

Some entry remailer do not accept direct connections via TOR
p.e. dizum. Very bad, in these cases, the connection must
be made via a mail relay, preferably via TOR.

On 2022-09-26 14:00, Nomen Nescio wrote:

> Some entry remailer do not accept direct connections via TOR
> p.e. dizum. Very bad, in these cases, the connection must
> be made via a mail relay, preferably via TOR.
>

If you use this Tor SMTP hidden service, which I operate,

6wlmvflobk2ztvvfdese4y3zpkigsx2qbz5v6bfkamijnwifnxgpw6id.onion:2525

you won't have any difficulty connecting to "entry remailer" dizum
through it or sending to a known remailer address through it.

To claim it is very bad that dizum doesn't provide such a service is
analogous to saying that your local Mcdonald's Restaurant is very bad
because they refuse to serve you a shot of whiskey. McDonalds
restaurants don't serve whiskey!

Similarly, Dizum - indeed many other remailers, and most regular email
servers - do not offer a torified smtp service.

A torified smtp service is an essential requirement for what you
describe as "direct connections via TOR." There is no way around it.
Because Tor, out of the box, does not speak SMTP.

--
SEC3

YAMN Tutorials - https://sec3.net/yamnhelp

SEC3 <admin@sec3.net> wrote:
>
> If you use this Tor SMTP hidden service, which I operate,
>
> 6wlmvflobk2ztvvfdese4y3zpkigsx2qbz5v6bfkamijnwifnxgpw6id.onion:2525
>
> you won't have any difficulty connecting to "entry remailer" dizum
> through it or sending to a known remailer address through it.
>

I prefer to connect direkt the first (entry) remailer in a
chain and no use a mail relay. Maybe I�m paranoid but I prefer
direct connection via TOR to the first remailer.

In article <5LjYK.191404$GzSf.144904@fx04.ams1>
SEC3 <admin@sec3.net> wrote:
>

> It's incorrect to suggest that connecting to *any* remailer server
> (using its MX record or some other name) is going to allow you to relay
> your message. Some will relay and some won't. I created
> <https://www.sec3.net/misc/mail-relays.txt> to tell people which ones do
> relay.
>
> As evidence, here is one that *doesn't* allowing relaying.
> krautrelay.kraut.space
> Look:
>
> ====================
> luser@debian:~$ telnet krautrelay.kraut.space 25
> Trying 5.181.51.40...
> Connected to krautrelay.kraut.space.
> Escape character is '^]'.
> 220 krautrelay.kraut.space ESMTP Postfix (Debian/GNU)
> ehlo myhost.entrydns.org
> 250-krautrelay.kraut.space
> 250-PIPELINING
> 250-SIZE 10240000
> 250-VRFY
> 250-ETRN
> 250-STARTTLS
> 250-ENHANCEDSTATUSCODES
> 250-8BITMIME
> 250-DSN
> 250-SMTPUTF8
> 250 CHUNKING
> mail from: anonymous@anonymous.com
> 250 2.1.0 Ok
> rcpt to: mixmaster@remailer.paranoici.org
> 554 5.7.1 <mixmaster@remailer.paranoici.org>: Relay access denied
> quit
> 221 2.0.0 Bye
> Connection closed by foreign host.
> =====================

In OmniMix you can replace the entry remailer and most will
relay.

Tor really getting beat up lately. Increase in connection
issues.

SEC3 <admin@sec3.net> wrote:

> On 2022-09-26 14:00, Nomen Nescio wrote:
>
> > Some entry remailer do not accept direct connections via TOR
> > p.e. dizum. Very bad, in these cases, the connection must
> > be made via a mail relay, preferably via TOR.
> >
>
> If you use this Tor SMTP hidden service, which I operate,
>
> 6wlmvflobk2ztvvfdese4y3zpkigsx2qbz5v6bfkamijnwifnxgpw6id.onion:2525
>
> you won't have any difficulty connecting to "entry remailer" dizum
> through it or sending to a known remailer address through it.
>
> To claim it is very bad that dizum doesn't provide such a service is
> analogous to saying that your local Mcdonald's Restaurant is very bad
> because they refuse to serve you a shot of whiskey. McDonalds
> restaurants don't serve whiskey!
>
> Similarly, Dizum - indeed many other remailers, and most regular email
> servers - do not offer a torified smtp service.
>
> A torified smtp service is an essential requirement for what you
> describe as "direct connections via TOR." There is no way around it.
> Because Tor, out of the box, does not speak SMTP.

What do you mean by 'torified smtp service'? A Tor Onion service?

We don't need such to send remailer packets through Tor directly to
entry remailers. Their regular mail hosts just have to accept SMTP
connections with Tor exit nodes! And that's what the OP asked for.

In principle relaying SMTP services are a good thing. But if you drop
all your packets of a message at one of them, which then fails in
forwarding, your message gets lost. That problem at the remailer
network entry is solved by sending packets representing different copies
directly to the entry remailers where they can be processed. You
deprive yourself of that important redundancy by using a (single)
relaying service for all packets instead of only for those at best few,
which can't be transferred directly.

On Tuesday, September 27, 2022 at 4:33:25 PM UTC+2, Anonymous wrote:
> SEC3 <ad...@sec3.net> wrote:
>
> > On 2022-09-26 14:00, Nomen Nescio wrote:
> >
> > > Some entry remailer do not accept direct connections via TOR
> > > p.e. dizum. Very bad, in these cases, the connection must
> > > be made via a mail relay, preferably via TOR.
> > >
> >
> > If you use this Tor SMTP hidden service, which I operate,
> >
> > 6wlmvflobk2ztvvfdese4y3zpkigsx2qbz5v6bfkamijnwifnxgpw6id.onion:2525
> >
> > you won't have any difficulty connecting to "entry remailer" dizum
> > through it or sending to a known remailer address through it.
> >
> > To claim it is very bad that dizum doesn't provide such a service is
> > analogous to saying that your local Mcdonald's Restaurant is very bad
> > because they refuse to serve you a shot of whiskey. McDonalds
> > restaurants don't serve whiskey!
> >
> > Similarly, Dizum - indeed many other remailers, and most regular email
> > servers - do not offer a torified smtp service.
> >
> > A torified smtp service is an essential requirement for what you
> > describe as "direct connections via TOR." There is no way around it.
> > Because Tor, out of the box, does not speak SMTP.
> What do you mean by 'torified smtp service'? A Tor Onion service?
>
> We don't need such to send remailer packets through Tor directly to
> entry remailers. Their regular mail hosts just have to accept SMTP
> connections with Tor exit nodes! And that's what the OP asked for.

Port 2525 should be set at the mail host, because almost all Tor exit
nodes block port 25.

Regards
Stefan

In article <5LjYK.191404$GzSf.144904@fx04.ams1>
SEC3 <admin@sec3.net> wrote:
>

> It's incorrect to suggest that connecting to *any* remailer server
> (using its MX record or some other name) is going to allow you to relay
> your message. Some will relay and some won't. I created
> <https://www.sec3.net/misc/mail-relays.txt> to tell people which ones do
> relay.
>
> As evidence, here is one that *doesn't* allowing relaying.
> krautrelay.kraut.space
> Look:
>
> ====================
> luser@debian:~$ telnet krautrelay.kraut.space 25
> Trying 5.181.51.40...
> Connected to krautrelay.kraut.space.
> Escape character is '^]'.
> 220 krautrelay.kraut.space ESMTP Postfix (Debian/GNU)
> ehlo myhost.entrydns.org
> 250-krautrelay.kraut.space
> 250-PIPELINING
> 250-SIZE 10240000
> 250-VRFY
> 250-ETRN
> 250-STARTTLS
> 250-ENHANCEDSTATUSCODES
> 250-8BITMIME
> 250-DSN
> 250-SMTPUTF8
> 250 CHUNKING
> mail from: anonymous@anonymous.com
> 250 2.1.0 Ok
> rcpt to: mixmaster@remailer.paranoici.org
> 554 5.7.1 <mixmaster@remailer.paranoici.org>: Relay access denied
> quit
> 221 2.0.0 Bye
> Connection closed by foreign host.
> =====================

In OmniMix you can replace the entry remailer and most will
relay.

Tor really getting beat up lately. Increase in connection
issues.