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People are going to scream bloody murder about that. -- Seen on linux-kernel


computers / alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt / Re: AMD Chest Burster

SubjectAuthor
* Re: AMD Chest BursterPaul
+- Re: AMD Chest BursterPaul
+- Re: AMD Chest BursterPaul
`* Re: AMD Chest BursterPaul
 `* Re: AMD Chest BursterPaul
  `* Re: AMD Chest BursterPaul
   +- Re: AMD Chest BursterBob F
   `- Re: AMD Chest BursterPaul

1
Re: AMD Chest Burster

<u29e66$110es$1@dont-email.me>

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From: nos...@needed.invalid (Paul)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Subject: Re: AMD Chest Burster
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2023 16:45:57 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Paul - Tue, 25 Apr 2023 20:45 UTC

On 4/25/2023 9:00 AM, Skybuck Flying wrote:
> AMD Processors Bulging, what's next:
>
> This is how I feel right now:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/live/m_ubTZKivlg?feature=share
>
> Bye,
> Skybuck.
>

Don't worry, they'll figure it out.

I don't think they want to leave this
too long, because the warranty returns
are bad for business.

Do you know how your BIOS flasher works ?

I have two kinds here.

1) The Test Machine, an Intel based one from Asus,
it has a dedicated chip for BIOS upgrade. When you
push the red button, you don't need a CPU in the
socket, to flash up the BIOS. The USB port has a
microcontroller on it, worth a couple bucks, that
does the flashing.

2) On my MSI AM4 board, it is a "CPU assisted" automation.
The CPU has to be in the board, some RAM, and then
when you push the red button, it will upgrade from
a USB stick. But I had a hell of a time getting that
to work. And I needed that to work, because my 5600G
was too new, and needed a different BIOS. The user manual
did not have a lot of instructions.

Paul

Paul

Re: AMD Chest Burster

<u2eiu9$229am$1@dont-email.me>

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From: nos...@needed.invalid (Paul)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Subject: Re: AMD Chest Burster
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2023 15:37:46 -0400
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 by: Paul - Thu, 27 Apr 2023 19:37 UTC

On 4/27/2023 12:48 PM, Skybuck Flying wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 25, 2023 at 10:46:16 PM UTC+2, Paul wrote:
>> On 4/25/2023 9:00 AM, Skybuck Flying wrote:
>>> AMD Processors Bulging, what's next:
>>>
>>> This is how I feel right now:
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/live/m_ubTZKivlg?feature=share
>>>
>>> Bye,
>>> Skybuck.
>>>
>> Don't worry, they'll figure it out.
>>
>> I don't think they want to leave this
>> too long, because the warranty returns
>> are bad for business.
>>
>> Do you know how your BIOS flasher works ?
>>
>> I have two kinds here.
>>
>> 1) The Test Machine, an Intel based one from Asus,
>> it has a dedicated chip for BIOS upgrade. When you
>> push the red button, you don't need a CPU in the
>> socket, to flash up the BIOS. The USB port has a
>> microcontroller on it, worth a couple bucks, that
>> does the flashing.
>>
>> 2) On my MSI AM4 board, it is a "CPU assisted" automation.
>> The CPU has to be in the board, some RAM, and then
>> when you push the red button, it will upgrade from
>> a USB stick. But I had a hell of a time getting that
>> to work. And I needed that to work, because my 5600G
>> was too new, and needed a different BIOS. The user manual
>> did not have a lot of instructions.
>
> Same here I guess, I have not yet seen/unpacked the motherboard, it is at my mother's place, soon I will have it and study it and make videos about it.
>
> The components I do have I made videos about and can be seen here on this playlist:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0HGds8aHQsAbzRQHDtSlhxEAeGj5rzil
>
> I wonder which firmware upgrading is safest:
>
> 1. "Flash Back" without cpu.
> 2. Flash via cpu/bios.
>
> With 1. I worry that the first power on might not work well, I have seen PCs fail to boot on first power on if not used for a while... power/electricity has to flow through the wires first, like a garden hose, it can take some time and it can lead to failures to boot on first try. If not powered correctly I can see how a firmware upgrade like that might fail, one possibility is to give the board some power first, try some boot first, but how to do that without a cpu ?! strange ?! Maybe motherboard manufacturers know about this bizar electricity behaviour, but I doubt it, it's a rare thing, maybe also caused by ground loops, or no ground, not sure.
>
> With 2. I worry that the processor's sensors might be immediately damaged/overloaded with power/voltage/ampere and might lead to a processor fail later on.
>
> So for now option 1 seems best/safest, if the motherboard dies, it's the cheaper component.
>
> I have never done a flash back like this, I hope it can be used to upgrade the firmware as well, I think it should. I saw a tip on reddit to use the 1.20 bios from ASRock Steel Legend WiFi motherboard even though it is still in "beta". I don't feel completely comfortable installing a beta, it probably means it contains some bugs here and there... I could also wait a bit or maybe later flash a more stable version if I run into any bugs.
>
> The situation is not good/somewhat painfull and dangerous right now, I was it was different, but I knew I was getting into "state of the art/unknown territory/risky territory" but I never imaged the risk of actually blowing up this processor in just 2 days !.
>
> I was hoping to at least get 6 months of usage out of this before it would blow up or damage because of static electricity.
>
> Well for now, I am going to continue reading forum posts as much as I can to see what others are saying/writing about this...
>
> For now I hope you enjoy my youtube videos !.
>
> The first 4 might be a bit boring, me examining the strange processor package, it had a magnet lol... really weird... I kinda feel this processor is jinxed, maybe even doomed... but I hope I am wrong and it will become my "cyber ferrari engine" as planned ! ;) =D That would be cool, cruising the internet with 16 cores x 4 GHz like a C64 ! the magic number ! ;) =D
>
> Well I wish you and everybody else on this planet and especially the computer lovers well and may your processors LAST FOR EVER ! LOL =D
>
> Bye for now,
> Skybuck.
>

Generally speaking, when you receive a new motherboard,
no exotic settings should be applied by default. I don't
have very "rich" taste in motherboards, and to the best
of my knowledge, the smaller Vrails have always been
close to spec. For example, I measured one once, on
a newer board, and it read "exact", like 2.500V on the
multimeter. This means some of the modern regulators
are phenomenally close to the requested value. They use
band gap references internally, and select fractions
of that value for control purposes.

Only the RAM is a bit off, but what they're doing there
is using the "edge of the band". So if the RAM is 2.5V,
they would select 2.5V plus 5%, or 2.625V. So not a lot
of extra voltage. And that's not VSoc, which is a separate
issue.

The DFI (Diamond Flower brand) boards, some of them
had "reference points", so you could touch a multimeter
to a "post" and measure. These are the same posts we used
in the lab at work. They have a dished area on the top for
your scope probe. It's intended to make measurement easier,
but they cost a few cents each, so they don't waste them
on motherboards. But DFI fitted some, as a "feature".

To engage EXPO would likely require some settings changes.

It's my belief, that you are relatively safe when
flashing up the BIOS and not using an OS. Once you start
loading overclocker packages, then the practice of reaching
into the BIOS and making unauthorized changes, is more of
a problem.

So really, the only immediate risk factor, is whether the
new BIOS correctly fixes the SOC voltage. And it should be
more than "fixed". The firmware people should check that
the initial setting is correct (not out-of-range), but
also with AGESA, I think you can impose a limit so no
further attempts to raise the voltage will work.

On processors in the past, these signals were called VID and FID.
And VID could be range limited in hardware. By using the processor
register to apply a VID change, the policies inside the CPU
limited how far you could go. Boost, in those days, was enabled
with GPIO signals (this is "cheating" to apply a boost voltage).

If the AM5 processor also sends out VID-like signals, like to program
VSoc, then the voltage can be limited by something like AGESA. AGESA
is some kind of serial bus signal, from the PCH to the CPU, that
sends an "initial serial stream", a bit pattern, and that programs
features inside the CPU before RESET is released. The AGESA bitstream
is in the firmware, and the PCH copies out the AGESA stuff for initialization.
It's something like that, but I don't have a link for you. Maybe
Wikipedia has an article.

There's no pictures. I like to see schematic representations.
Can't find any wiring for it in Google either.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGESA

Paul

Re: AMD Chest Burster

<u2f6of$255f6$1@dont-email.me>

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From: nos...@needed.invalid (Paul)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Subject: Re: AMD Chest Burster
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2023 21:15:58 -0400
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 by: Paul - Fri, 28 Apr 2023 01:15 UTC

On 4/27/2023 4:10 PM, Skybuck Flying wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 25, 2023 at 10:46:16 PM UTC+2, Paul wrote:
>> On 4/25/2023 9:00 AM, Skybuck Flying wrote:
>>> AMD Processors Bulging, what's next:
>>>
>>> This is how I feel right now:
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/live/m_ubTZKivlg?feature=share
>>>
>>> Bye,
>>> Skybuck.
>>>
>> Don't worry, they'll figure it out.
>>
>> I don't think they want to leave this
>> too long, because the warranty returns
>> are bad for business.
>>
>> Do you know how your BIOS flasher works ?
>
> I found this, it claims it can do it without a CPU and without turning on the computer, just needs power from the power supply:
>
> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwifq4zA7sr-AhUMLOwKHX_oBokQFnoECAsQAw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.asrock.com%2Fsupport%2FQA%2FFlashbackSOP.pdf&usg=AOvVaw0PjOPg9UujLzClW0LdXa2z
>
> I am not sure if it's still relevant.
>
> On another note/theme, downloading asrock website and then opening it again in all web browsers fails.
>
> I would like to store the graphics of each product/manufacturer/component.
>
> So far FireFox renders the website best, but even firefox fails to display certain graphics:
>
> Try downloading this website:
>
> https://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/B650E%20Steel%20Legend%20WiFi/index.asp
>
> and then try opening it again with any webbrowser and let me know how that goes for you.
>
> I also tried some web downloading tools, but they all suck and fail or download too much and are limited to 100.
>
> Sympton I am getting with firefox is:
>
> Wrong display of entire website.
>
> With other browsers:
>
> Gray display of some images.
>
> Bye for now,
> Skybuck.
>

OK, try this page.

It's the best "blend" between the spartan original page
they put up, and the ruined page they show now.

Take your pictures here.

https://web.archive.org/web/20221213010650/https://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/B650E%20Steel%20Legend%20WiFi/index.asp

When you get down to the 2.5Gbit/sec LAN section and the
bottom of the page won't render, just grab the side of the
browser window and make it a few pixels wider. This will function
as a "trigger" for the "on demand renderer".

Use "Download Original" for the full resolution.

https://i.postimg.cc/qMRcC71s/mobo-04.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/mDjMPxMp/mobo-05.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/3Jdpxcw9/mobo-06.jpg

Those are screenshots from my "picture taking" setup :-)
No, my screen isn't really that big.

Paul

Re: AMD Chest Burster

<u2kkck$3aqfr$1@dont-email.me>

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From: nos...@needed.invalid (Paul)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Subject: Re: AMD Chest Burster
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2023 22:39:15 -0400
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 by: Paul - Sun, 30 Apr 2023 02:39 UTC

On 4/29/2023 9:41 PM, Skybuck Flying wrote:
> On ASRock forum there are some people/postings mentioning the instant flash back feature of these motherboards might not work and might even lead to bricked motherboards, though the word bricked was not used yet...
>
> So this could get nasty...
>
> 1. Do I use instant flash and run the risk of bricking the motherboard ?
> 2. Do I use bios flash and risk blowing up the processor or wrecking it's life time ?!
>
> Both options don't feel good right now ! =D
>
> Bye for now,
> Skybuck.
>

https://www.asrock.com/MB/AMD/B650E%20Steel%20Legend%20WiFi/index.asp#Manual

2.13 Smart Switches

Rename the file to “creative.rom” and save it to the root directory of X: USB flash drive.

5. Plug the 24 pin power connector to the motherboard. Then turn on the power supply's AC
switch.

*There is no need to power on the system.

6. Then plug your USB drive to the USB BIOS Flashback port.
7. Press the BIOS Flashback Switch for about three seconds. Then the LED starts to blink.

That means, the operation uses +5VSB from the power supply, using
the 24 pin connector. Switching on the supply, delivers +5VSB.
The power supply fan will not spin, while the BIOS is flashing.

The CPU does not need to be in the socket. No RAM needed either.

The LED information in that section of the manual, tells
you what result is the "desired result".

You can do that operation over and over if you want.

*******

I see no reason to be populating CPU and RAM, until that step is done.

Using the red button, plus only +5VSB, should be a safe way
of getting a protective BIOS loaded.

Paul

Re: AMD Chest Burster

<u2m0sn$3il27$1@dont-email.me>

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From: nos...@needed.invalid (Paul)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Subject: Re: AMD Chest Burster
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2023 11:18:46 -0400
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 by: Paul - Sun, 30 Apr 2023 15:18 UTC

On 4/30/2023 10:20 AM, Skybuck Flying wrote:
> On Sunday, April 30, 2023 at 4:39:30 AM UTC+2, Paul wrote:
>> On 4/29/2023 9:41 PM, Skybuck Flying wrote:
>>> On ASRock forum there are some people/postings mentioning the instant flash back feature of these motherboards might not work and might even lead to bricked motherboards, though the word bricked was not used yet...
>>>
>>> So this could get nasty...
>>>
>>> 1. Do I use instant flash and run the risk of bricking the motherboard ?
>>> 2. Do I use bios flash and risk blowing up the processor or wrecking it's life time ?!
>>>
>>> Both options don't feel good right now ! =D
>>>
>>> Bye for now,
>>> Skybuck.
>>>
>> https://www.asrock.com/MB/AMD/B650E%20Steel%20Legend%20WiFi/index.asp#Manual
>>
>> 2.13 Smart Switches
>>
>> Rename the file to “creative.rom” and save it to the root directory of X: USB flash drive.
>>
>> 5. Plug the 24 pin power connector to the motherboard. Then turn on the power supply's AC
>> switch.
>>
>> *There is no need to power on the system.
>>
>> 6. Then plug your USB drive to the USB BIOS Flashback port.
>> 7. Press the BIOS Flashback Switch for about three seconds. Then the LED starts to blink.
>>
>> That means, the operation uses +5VSB from the power supply, using
>> the 24 pin connector. Switching on the supply, delivers +5VSB.
>> The power supply fan will not spin, while the BIOS is flashing.
>>
>> The CPU does not need to be in the socket. No RAM needed either.
>>
>> The LED information in that section of the manual, tells
>> you what result is the "desired result".
>>
>> You can do that operation over and over if you want.
>>
>> *******
>>
>> I see no reason to be populating CPU and RAM, until that step is done.
>>
>> Using the red button, plus only +5VSB, should be a safe way
>> of getting a protective BIOS loaded.
>
> The problem I see with this approach is some kind of bug in the motherboard or bios or software which does this on ASRock...
>
> I do want to test this feature but not if it bricks the motherboard
>
> So I have to choose between:
>
> 1. Bricking the motherboard.
> 2. Damaging/destroying the CPU.
>
> If I damage/brick the motherboard well then at least I can purchase a new one if no RMA received.
>
> If I damage/brick the processor then it could get tricky to get a new one because they may be in short supply. Though AMD may offer RMAs better than ASRock.
>
> The real question is how much chance do I run of damaging the CPU on first boot ? :)
>
> It's a strange situation to say the least. I just watched gamers nexus video as well from the couche...
>
> I will wait a bit and try and figure out if this feature/instant flash back works or not... maybe people don't report back once it works... ! ;)
>
> Bye for now,
> Skybuck.
>

Zero chance of bricking motherboard.

This feature relies on a microcontroller.

+---------------+----------------------------+---------+5VSB
| | |
USB ----- microcontroller ----- SPI_bus --- BIOS_chip
| ^ | |
gnd | gnd gnd
|
Button

The microcontroller writes the whole chip, including the BIOS
boot loader. If the BIOS_chip was blank and brand new, this
feature would still work.

And it relies on a microcontroller, because the CPU and RAM are absent.

This is the kind of flasher my Intel ("Test Machine") has.

Paul

Re: AMD Chest Burster

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From: nos...@needed.invalid (Paul)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Subject: Re: AMD Chest Burster
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2023 17:50:14 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Paul - Sun, 30 Apr 2023 21:50 UTC

On 4/30/2023 4:55 PM, Skybuck Flying wrote:
> On Sunday, April 30, 2023 at 5:18:58 PM UTC+2, Paul wrote:
>> On 4/30/2023 10:20 AM, Skybuck Flying wrote:
>>> On Sunday, April 30, 2023 at 4:39:30 AM UTC+2, Paul wrote:
>>>> On 4/29/2023 9:41 PM, Skybuck Flying wrote:
>>>>> On ASRock forum there are some people/postings mentioning the instant flash back feature of these motherboards might not work and might even lead to bricked motherboards, though the word bricked was not used yet...
>>>>>
>>>>> So this could get nasty...
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Do I use instant flash and run the risk of bricking the motherboard ?
>>>>> 2. Do I use bios flash and risk blowing up the processor or wrecking it's life time ?!
>>>>>
>>>>> Both options don't feel good right now ! =D
>>>>>
>>>>> Bye for now,
>>>>> Skybuck.
>>>>>
>>>> https://www.asrock.com/MB/AMD/B650E%20Steel%20Legend%20WiFi/index.asp#Manual
>>>>
>>>> 2.13 Smart Switches
>>>>
>>>> Rename the file to “creative.rom” and save it to the root directory of X: USB flash drive.
>>>>
>>>> 5. Plug the 24 pin power connector to the motherboard. Then turn on the power supply's AC
>>>> switch.
>>>>
>>>> *There is no need to power on the system.
>>>>
>>>> 6. Then plug your USB drive to the USB BIOS Flashback port.
>>>> 7. Press the BIOS Flashback Switch for about three seconds. Then the LED starts to blink.
>>>>
>>>> That means, the operation uses +5VSB from the power supply, using
>>>> the 24 pin connector. Switching on the supply, delivers +5VSB.
>>>> The power supply fan will not spin, while the BIOS is flashing.
>>>>
>>>> The CPU does not need to be in the socket. No RAM needed either.
>>>>
>>>> The LED information in that section of the manual, tells
>>>> you what result is the "desired result".
>>>>
>>>> You can do that operation over and over if you want.
>>>>
>>>> *******
>>>>
>>>> I see no reason to be populating CPU and RAM, until that step is done.
>>>>
>>>> Using the red button, plus only +5VSB, should be a safe way
>>>> of getting a protective BIOS loaded.
>>>
>>> The problem I see with this approach is some kind of bug in the motherboard or bios or software which does this on ASRock...
>>>
>>> I do want to test this feature but not if it bricks the motherboard
>>>
>>> So I have to choose between:
>>>
>>> 1. Bricking the motherboard.
>>> 2. Damaging/destroying the CPU.
>>>
>>> If I damage/brick the motherboard well then at least I can purchase a new one if no RMA received.
>>>
>>> If I damage/brick the processor then it could get tricky to get a new one because they may be in short supply. Though AMD may offer RMAs better than ASRock.
>>>
>>> The real question is how much chance do I run of damaging the CPU on first boot ? :)
>>>
>>> It's a strange situation to say the least. I just watched gamers nexus video as well from the couche...
>>>
>>> I will wait a bit and try and figure out if this feature/instant flash back works or not... maybe people don't report back once it works... ! ;)
>>>
>>> Bye for now,
>>> Skybuck.
>>>
>> Zero chance of bricking motherboard.
>>
>> This feature relies on a microcontroller.
>>
>> +---------------+----------------------------+---------+5VSB
>> | | |
>> USB ----- microcontroller ----- SPI_bus --- BIOS_chip
>> | ^ | |
>> gnd | gnd gnd
>> |
>> Button
>>
>> The microcontroller writes the whole chip, including the BIOS
>> boot loader. If the BIOS_chip was blank and brand new, this
>> feature would still work.
>>
>> And it relies on a microcontroller, because the CPU and RAM are absent.
>>
>> This is the kind of flasher my Intel ("Test Machine") has.
>
> What you make of this:
>
> https://forum.asrock.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=25782&KW=bios+flash+back&title=cant-update-bios-on-steel-legend-x670e
>
> https://forum.asrock.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=25637&KW=bios+flash+back&title=x670e-pro-rs-not-booting
>
> https://forum.asrock.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=25747&KW=bios+flash+back&title=x399-taichi-flash-no-post
>
> https://forum.asrock.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=25741&KW=bios+flash+back&title=x670e-steel-legend-7800x3d-red-ligh

I'm telling you to do this on an *unpopulated* system.

The BIOS button must be pushed while the system is NOT operating.

Only the +5VSB rail is to be running at the time. The PSU fan
should not be spinning. You do not want any other hardware
to be active while using this button thing.

Once the system is properly operational, and has at least *one*
"safe BIOS" loaded, you can use the other BIOS updating procedures
from then onwards. There is always a danger with the regular BIOS
flashing procedures, because of the boot block and issues related
to poor handling of the boot block in the BIOS.

The BIOS consists of two pieces. A section that does initial things.
It does a CRC check, over the body of the main BIOS code. Then, it
jumps to the main BIOS code. If a flash is ever "interrupted" by
a failure, and the boot block has been erased, then the system is
bricked.

But, because you have the red button, you plug in the USB stick,
*do not* push the button on the front of the PC, just use the
+5VSB rail while flashing in a replacement BIOS. The red button
can unbrick a PC. Because it does not play games with the boot block.
When the red button is being used, the PSU fan should NOT be running.
If it is running, you made a mistake. Do NOT try to start the PC,
while the red button procedure is running.

*******

My plan here, is to get you to install a *safe* BIOS, and from then
on, you can experiment as you wish, with no help from me :-) Take
motherboard, no CPU, no RAM, PSU 24 pin cable, switch on ATX PSU
at the back (+5VSB now running), then use the red button and flash up.
Now, your board is ready for its build...

I did explain, on my MSI system, I had a hell of a time getting
all the instructions correct for mine. It took all evening
until I got the sequence right. I hope yours will be a lot
simpler than that! I think at one point, mine was flashing the LED,
but it was actually flashing as an "error", not as "progress". Grrr.

Paul

Re: AMD Chest Burster

<u2mt70$3qjuo$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=1353&group=alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt#1353

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Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: bobnos...@gmail.com (Bob F)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Subject: Re: AMD Chest Burster
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2023 16:22:07 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 169
Message-ID: <u2mt70$3qjuo$1@dont-email.me>
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 by: Bob F - Sun, 30 Apr 2023 23:22 UTC

On 4/30/2023 2:50 PM, Paul wrote:
> On 4/30/2023 4:55 PM, Skybuck Flying wrote:
>> On Sunday, April 30, 2023 at 5:18:58 PM UTC+2, Paul wrote:
>>> On 4/30/2023 10:20 AM, Skybuck Flying wrote:
>>>> On Sunday, April 30, 2023 at 4:39:30 AM UTC+2, Paul wrote:
>>>>> On 4/29/2023 9:41 PM, Skybuck Flying wrote:
>>>>>> On ASRock forum there are some people/postings mentioning the
>>>>>> instant flash back feature of these motherboards might not work
>>>>>> and might even lead to bricked motherboards, though the word
>>>>>> bricked was not used yet...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So this could get nasty...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. Do I use instant flash and run the risk of bricking the
>>>>>> motherboard ?
>>>>>> 2. Do I use bios flash and risk blowing up the processor or
>>>>>> wrecking it's life time ?!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Both options don't feel good right now ! =D
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bye for now,
>>>>>> Skybuck.
>>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.asrock.com/MB/AMD/B650E%20Steel%20Legend%20WiFi/index.asp#Manual
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2.13 Smart Switches
>>>>>
>>>>> Rename the file to “creative.rom” and save it to the root directory
>>>>> of X: USB flash drive.
>>>>>
>>>>> 5. Plug the 24 pin power connector to the motherboard. Then turn on
>>>>> the power supply's AC
>>>>> switch.
>>>>>
>>>>> *There is no need to power on the system.
>>>>>
>>>>> 6. Then plug your USB drive to the USB BIOS Flashback port.
>>>>> 7. Press the BIOS Flashback Switch for about three seconds. Then
>>>>> the LED starts to blink.
>>>>>
>>>>> That means, the operation uses +5VSB from the power supply, using
>>>>> the 24 pin connector. Switching on the supply, delivers +5VSB.
>>>>> The power supply fan will not spin, while the BIOS is flashing.
>>>>>
>>>>> The CPU does not need to be in the socket. No RAM needed either.
>>>>>
>>>>> The LED information in that section of the manual, tells
>>>>> you what result is the "desired result".
>>>>>
>>>>> You can do that operation over and over if you want.
>>>>>
>>>>> *******
>>>>>
>>>>> I see no reason to be populating CPU and RAM, until that step is done.
>>>>>
>>>>> Using the red button, plus only +5VSB, should be a safe way
>>>>> of getting a protective BIOS loaded.
>>>>
>>>> The problem I see with this approach is some kind of bug in the
>>>> motherboard or bios or software which does this on ASRock...
>>>>
>>>> I do want to test this feature but not if it bricks the motherboard
>>>>
>>>> So I have to choose between:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Bricking the motherboard.
>>>> 2. Damaging/destroying the CPU.
>>>>
>>>> If I damage/brick the motherboard well then at least I can purchase
>>>> a new one if no RMA received.
>>>>
>>>> If I damage/brick the processor then it could get tricky to get a
>>>> new one because they may be in short supply. Though AMD may offer
>>>> RMAs better than ASRock.
>>>>
>>>> The real question is how much chance do I run of damaging the CPU on
>>>> first boot ? :)
>>>>
>>>> It's a strange situation to say the least. I just watched gamers
>>>> nexus video as well from the couche...
>>>>
>>>> I will wait a bit and try and figure out if this feature/instant
>>>> flash back works or not... maybe people don't report back once it
>>>> works... ! ;)
>>>>
>>>> Bye for now,
>>>> Skybuck.
>>>>
>>> Zero chance of bricking motherboard.
>>>
>>> This feature relies on a microcontroller.
>>>
>>> +---------------+----------------------------+---------+5VSB
>>> | | |
>>> USB ----- microcontroller ----- SPI_bus --- BIOS_chip
>>> | ^ | |
>>> gnd | gnd gnd
>>> |
>>> Button
>>>
>>> The microcontroller writes the whole chip, including the BIOS
>>> boot loader. If the BIOS_chip was blank and brand new, this
>>> feature would still work.
>>>
>>> And it relies on a microcontroller, because the CPU and RAM are absent.
>>>
>>> This is the kind of flasher my Intel ("Test Machine") has.
>>
>> What you make of this:
>>
>> https://forum.asrock.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=25782&KW=bios+flash+back&title=cant-update-bios-on-steel-legend-x670e
>>
>>
>> https://forum.asrock.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=25637&KW=bios+flash+back&title=x670e-pro-rs-not-booting
>>
>>
>> https://forum.asrock.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=25747&KW=bios+flash+back&title=x399-taichi-flash-no-post
>>
>>
>> https://forum.asrock.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=25741&KW=bios+flash+back&title=x670e-steel-legend-7800x3d-red-ligh
>>
>
> I'm telling you to do this on an *unpopulated* system.
>
> The BIOS button must be pushed while the system is NOT operating.
>
> Only the +5VSB rail is to be running at the time. The PSU fan
> should not be spinning. You do not want any other hardware
> to be active while using this button thing.
>
> Once the system is properly operational, and has at least *one*
> "safe BIOS" loaded, you can use the other BIOS updating procedures
> from then onwards. There is always a danger with the regular BIOS
> flashing procedures, because of the boot block and issues related
> to poor handling of the boot block in the BIOS.
>
> The BIOS consists of two pieces. A section that does initial things.
> It does a CRC check, over the body of the main BIOS code. Then, it
> jumps to the main BIOS code. If a flash is ever "interrupted" by
> a failure, and the boot block has been erased, then the system is
> bricked.
>
> But, because you have the red button, you plug in the USB stick,
> *do not* push the button on the front of the PC, just use the
> +5VSB rail while flashing in a replacement BIOS. The red button
> can unbrick a PC. Because it does not play games with the boot block.
> When the red button is being used, the PSU fan should NOT be running.
> If it is running, you made a mistake. Do NOT try to start the PC,
> while the red button procedure is running.
>
> *******
>
> My plan here, is to get you to install a *safe* BIOS, and from then
> on, you can experiment as you wish, with no help from me :-) Take
> motherboard, no CPU, no RAM, PSU 24 pin cable, switch on ATX PSU
> at the back (+5VSB now running), then use the red button and flash up.
> Now, your board is ready for its build...
>
> I did explain, on my MSI system, I had a hell of a time getting
> all the instructions correct for mine. It took all evening
> until I got the sequence right. I hope yours will be a lot
> simpler than that! I think at one point, mine was flashing the LED,
> but it was actually flashing as an "error", not as "progress". Grrr.
>
>    Paul

I have used an inexpensive programmer clipped onto the chip on a
motherboard to restore a BIOS. Very useful for bricked equipment.

Re: AMD Chest Burster

<u2nbbj$abj$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=1354&group=alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt#1354

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From: nos...@needed.invalid (Paul)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
Subject: Re: AMD Chest Burster
Date: Mon, 1 May 2023 03:23:31 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <u2nbbj$abj$1@dont-email.me>
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 by: Paul - Mon, 1 May 2023 07:23 UTC

On 4/30/2023 9:48 PM, Skybuck Flying wrote:
>> but it was actually flashing as an "error", not as "progress". Grrr.
>
> EUH LOL.
>
> Why was there an error ? Did you eventually get it to work ? Without any expensive/external tools ?
>
> Bye,
> Skybuck.
>

Yes, it worked, but it took a bunch of tries.
Pretty frustrating.

Paul

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