For me, the most hated game I love is probably

Saint's Row IV.
I just loved the superhero theme in a time when CoH
had been shut down, and not resurrected, and the other supers games
were really bad. I think it was so hated as it took the GTA ripoff to
a place that it was more a CoH ripoff, not at all what people wanted or
expected from the game. The DLCs like Gat out of Hell were better
balanced and still interestingly different too.

Runners Up:

Fallout 76.
I don't know if it would quite come to 'love' but there were many
memorable bits I loved, that were far more memorable than anything in
Fallout 4. Mothman, the Nuka Cola plant, the Miners, the friendly
assault bot, fighting giant deathclaws with hordes of other players.

Star Control Origins.
Admittedly this wasn't hated by people who played it as far as I know,
just the company who were suing over the rights. It was a flop, but
for the game itself it's a fine resurrection of Star Control, which I
really needed.

Cyberpunk 2077.
I played it long after the initial broken state was released though,
and I'm not sure it even qualifies now.

- Justisaur

ø-ø
(\_/)\
`-'\ `--.___,
¶¬'\( ,_.-'
\\
^'

On Wed, 27 Sep 2023 14:25:33 -0700 (PDT), Justisaur
<justisaur@gmail.com> wrote:

>For me, the most hated game I love is probably
>
>Saint's Row IV.
>I just loved the superhero theme in a time when CoH
>had been shut down, and not resurrected, and the other supers games
>were really bad. I think it was so hated as it took the GTA ripoff to
>a place that it was more a CoH ripoff, not at all what people wanted or
>expected from the game. The DLCs like Gat out of Hell were better
>balanced and still interestingly different too.

I don't recall Saints Row 4 being hated (and, indeed, a quick google
indicates its reviews are generally favorable). Flaws were noted, and
the unusual direction the game took was not to everyone's taste, but I
think most people were fine with it. It wasn't a game people LOVED,
but hated? I didn't see that.

>Runners Up:

>Fallout 76.
>I don't know if it would quite come to 'love' but there were many
>memorable bits I loved, that were far more memorable than anything in
>Fallout 4. Mothman, the Nuka Cola plant, the Miners, the friendly
>assault bot, fighting giant deathclaws with hordes of other players.

On the other hand, Fallout 76? That got a lot of hate. Partly because
it /wasn't/ what people really wanted (which was another single-player
open-world game), and partly because it wasn't a particularly notable
game... especially on release. It was just-another-not-that-exciting
MMORPG, but with all the usual Bethesda jank and bugs. It's gotten
better over the years - and this has softened opinions - but it had a
really rough start.

But I have a hard time thinking of any 'games I loved that the general
public despised". There are a number of games I had some fun within,
despite getting critically and publically trashed - I often
appreciated what the developers were TRYING to do through the flawed
implentation - but usually the same problems the public latched onto
also kept me from really enjoying the experience.

But there's gotta be some, right?

Well, "Mass Effect: Andromeda" comes to mind, I guess. That game got a
lot of hate. Myself, I thought it was okay; a mediocre experience
released by a developer who should have done a lot better. It wasn't
as awful as some made it out to be, but it wasn't a game I'd really
recommend either.

"Gothic", on release, received a lot of vitriol, but I fell in love
with it. Well, eventually; I gave up on my first attempt. It was only
after I forced myself to give the game a second chance that I saw the
brilliance in its design (despite its chonky visuals and controls).
But that seems to be the same with a lot of players, and now it's
considered a classic.

"Witchhaven", maybe? Even on release - back in 1995 when shitty FPS
games were common - I had a bit of a soft spot for the game. Not so
much for its gameplay but because - with its SVGA graphics and 3D
sound - it created what was, for its time, one of the most immersive
dungeons crawls I had experienced. As much as I loved games like
"Underworld" or "Arena", they tended to be fairly slow-paced; you
often felt like you were trapped in molasses. Moving through
"Witchhaven" felt a lot smoother and more natural. The effect didn't
last - once better games started releasing with similar technology,
the flaws of "Witchhaven" became ever more apparent - but on release?
There was a bit of witchly magic around the game.

Oh, I know: "TerraWars: NY Invasion". This was a bonafide awful game,
and it got extremely poor reviews. I'm not sure it was HATED, but I
think that has more to do with the fact that almost nobody has ever
PLAYED it. And while I in no way love the game, it's one of those
titles that is such a disaster, that it's only redeeming quality is
how bad it actually is. It's less a loved game than one that was quite
memorable for its terribleness.

> For me, the most hated game I love is probably

For hated, I take that you mean "hated in general by most people on
online and possible the real world too"?
Hard to say. I play terrible games on purpose and enjoy them, but they
are so niche that they fail to attain a "hated / reviled" status.

If I had to think...

Heretic:
It seems to have been hated for being just Doom with a fantasy skin and
not having a lot of new stuff (items, looking up and down), then Hexen
making it look like a footnote. But back in the day I enjoyed it more
than Doom. For a kid, it was more colorful, and turning all the enemies
into chickens rather than using the BFG seemed kick-ass.

Diablo 3:
I never player Diablo 2, and by the time I got into it the expansion was
out, the auction house had closed forever and seasons had become a well
loved concept. Same as with heretic, I enjoyed the game looking lively
and full of colour. D2 hardcore fans were so angry about the game not
being grey and red that we got to see Jay Wilson's glorious t-shirt.

On Wed, 27 Sep 2023 14:25:33 -0700 (PDT), Justisaur
<justisaur@gmail.com> wrote:

>For me, the most hated game I love is probably

Diablo 3 easily for me. I played it for over a year. One of the best
hack and slashers ever. But I bought it after Blizzard fixed it. I
don't buy games on release and Diablo 3 is why I don't.

Not quite keeping on topic as it wasn't hated as such nor did I love it,
anyway it's Outer Worlds. A lot of the 'hate' seemed to come from it's
not a successor to FO:NV, well the devs never said it was and reading a
review or two would have told you that. There was also an element of the
anti-woke brigade moaning that the women weren't attractive enough and
there was even one of your companions that was asexual, shock horror I
know what is the world coming to.

I rather liked it, it certain;y isn't on my classics list but it was a
fun romp for all of its twenty five hours or so.

On Thu, 28 Sep 2023 12:06:40 +0200, H1M3M <wipnoah@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>> For me, the most hated game I love is probably
>
>For hated, I take that you mean "hated in general by most people on
>online and possible the real world too"?
>Hard to say. I play terrible games on purpose and enjoy them, but they
>are so niche that they fail to attain a "hated / reviled" status.
>
>If I had to think...
>
>Heretic:
>It seems to have been hated for being just Doom with a fantasy skin and
>not having a lot of new stuff (items, looking up and down), then Hexen
>making it look like a footnote. But back in the day I enjoyed it more
>than Doom. For a kid, it was more colorful, and turning all the enemies
>into chickens rather than using the BFG seemed kick-ass.

Hey, "Heretic" was beloved on release. I remember the endless
discussion about the game here on c.s.i.p.g.action! It was never
destined to outshine "Doom" but it was generally received quite
favorably.

>Diablo 3:
>I never player Diablo 2, and by the time I got into it the expansion was
>out, the auction house had closed forever and seasons had become a well
>loved concept. Same as with heretic, I enjoyed the game looking lively
>and full of colour. D2 hardcore fans were so angry about the game not
>being grey and red that we got to see Jay Wilson's glorious t-shirt.

Now, Diablo 3... that got some hate! Not so much because of its
gameplay, which even some of its most vocal detractors had to
grudgingly admit was pretty good, but because of everything else
surrounding the game: it's real-world auction house, Blizzard's
tone-deaf responses to customers' complaints, etc.

Once "Diablo 3" got rid of the auction house and Blizzard started
actually listening to its fans, the game started to receive a lot more
love.

So the real question is: did you love ORIGINAL D3 or did you only like
it after it got updated into playability? :-)

On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 3:06:44 AM UTC-7, H1M3M wrote:
> > For me, the most hated game I love is probably
> For hated, I take that you mean "hated in general by most people on
> online and possible the real world too"?
> Hard to say. I play terrible games on purpose and enjoy them, but they
> are so niche that they fail to attain a "hated / reviled" status.
>
> If I had to think...
>
> Heretic:
> It seems to have been hated for being just Doom with a fantasy skin and
> not having a lot of new stuff (items, looking up and down), then Hexen
> making it look like a footnote. But back in the day I enjoyed it more
> than Doom. For a kid, it was more colorful, and turning all the enemies
> into chickens rather than using the BFG seemed kick-ass.

I loved the chickens.

> Diablo 3:
> I never player Diablo 2, and by the time I got into it the expansion was
> out, the auction house had closed forever and seasons had become a well
> loved concept. Same as with heretic, I enjoyed the game looking lively
> and full of colour. D2 hardcore fans were so angry about the game not
> being grey and red that we got to see Jay Wilson's glorious t-shirt.

I've been into it before, but I loved the auction house. Not real money one,
but it sure made it a lot easier to avoid some of the annoying grind and
get something out of the good loot for another character thing.

I'm sure I got more than my money's worth out of the game, but I've never
been big into grinding for loot, which is what the game is after you finish
it with each character, so that was that.

I probably mainly liked it because it's the last game I played for any length
of time with RL friends. I have a friend that's into a similar game I could
probably go play, Path of Exile, but I just couldn't get into it.

Multiplayer also had the issue of more people = slower/worse loot,
I found it ideal to be a pair, and playing with randos wasn't fun, unlike
DS/ER.

I'd love to try some BG3 multiplayer too (really I'd rather run some live
D&D, but can't stand 3.5e through 5e, and pathfinder which is just 3.5e
going in the wrong direction IMHO, and that's all anyone I can find wants to
play and time is a bit tight, and I don't seem to have the stamina to come up
with and flesh out adventures anymore. Yeah modules, but they're almost
always worse than what I can come up with, with a few exceptions, or
require as much 'making it my own' as it would to just make something.)

- Justisaur

On Thursday, September 28, 2023 at 4:44:30 AM UTC-7, JAB wrote:
> Not quite keeping on topic as it wasn't hated as such nor did I love it,
> anyway it's Outer Worlds. A lot of the 'hate' seemed to come from it's
> not a successor to FO:NV, well the devs never said it was and reading a
> review or two would have told you that. There was also an element of the
> anti-woke brigade moaning that the women weren't attractive enough and
> there was even one of your companions that was asexual, shock horror I
> know what is the world coming to.

Loved that one too. I didn't really like FO:NV (I finished it at least so it wasn't
too bad.) So I guess it was more for me than the NV lovers.

I found the NPCs and characters well made, and the game play fine, I also
appreciated it wasn't open world as I'd had an assfull of that by that time..

It was easily RPG of the year, and possibly decade for me. Before I'd played
Witcher 3 and Baldur's Gate 3 though, which are both much better.

> I rather liked it, it certain;y isn't on my classics list but it was a
> fun romp for all of its twenty five hours or so.

I can't seem to bring myself to go play it again for DLCs though, but
that's also true of any of the Bethesda games. I did try to get
through FO3's DLCs, but the furthest I could get was past Operation
Anchorage, which I didn't care for, it just seemed out of left field and
too military/mission based for FO, as if someone was trying to throw
COD or something in Fallout which just doesn't work. I couldn't bring
myself to play any further for the other DLCs.

I've never actually managed to complete a 2nd playthrough of any
of the Fallout games, even my favorite FO2, though I've played up
to SF many a time, leaving the last bit out as being just too hard
and not interesting enough.

- Justisaur

On Wed, 27 Sep 2023 14:25:33 -0700 (PDT), in
comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action, Justisaur wrote:

>For me, the most hated game I love is probably...

[snip]

My best option here is Fallout 4.

Oh, VATS is ruined!
Oh, it's just an FPS now!
Oh, the storyline/factions sucks!
Oh, Preston Garvey and settlements and base building!*
Oh, the perks system has been neutered and is now lame!
Oh, I don't feel like I'm making a difference!
Oh, this game is terrible compared to FO:NV!
Oh, Oh, Oh, Oh, Oh... my God this game sucks!

I had a blast with it. I logged 150 hours in it. I loved the start of the
game when everyone gets nuked. I loved the factions (mostly). I loved
Piper. I loved Fenway and my house in the ballpark. I loved the MILA
quests from Tinker Tom. I loved the Brotherhood endgame. I loved the
cryolater (!). I loved the junk jet. I loved the boss fights. I loved
collecting bobbleheads (even the Luck one). I loved the pared down perks
system. I loved scavenging for parts. Even crafting was fun, and I *hate*
crafting.

Hands down, best implementation of power armor ever. Why wasn't it always
like this? Just amazing.

Endlessly moddable. Didn't need them; a Bethesda first for me. But I
downloaded Vault 1080 from Nvidia and got a neat premium godrays and
lighting effects demo. Cool.

I did not understand all the hate. Especially from New Vegas players.
There are consequences galore to your actions. You literally have an
option to shoot someone in the back of the head or let him go depending
on how you feel about synths.**

Best. Fallout. Ever.

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

* To be fair: I hated Preston Garvey and the Minutemen's constant nagging
about settlements getting attacked, but it's easily avoided by never
talking to him once you get the power armor. I hated base building. Same
solution. You still have access to workbenches, so it doesn't mess up
crafting.

** To be fair: Not the Radiant quests. A lot of those got very boring. So
what? Don't do them.

Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

> Hey, "Heretic" was beloved on release. I remember the endless
> discussion about the game here on c.s.i.p.g.action! It was never
> destined to outshine "Doom" but it was generally received quite
> favorably.

Guess the info on internet (mostly reviews from the era) do not
correlate with user opinions from back when it released. I did not try
Heretic until 1997 or 1998 when I had my first PC (a P166 MMX, btw;
currently being repaired and retrofitted), but talking about it would
get me replies like "You are playing a pixelated game without polygons"
and "Why play that at 320x200 when you could be playing Duke Nukem 3d at
640x480?", from both the Quake / Unreal crowd, and the Build engine
die-hard fans.

> So the real question is: did you love ORIGINAL D3 or did you only like
> it after it got updated into playability? :-)

I'm afraid I won't ever be able to answer this. I did not try Battle.Net
until 2016 when the Darlening of Tristam patch came out.

PS: I do hope this time the text is getting correctly formatted to 72
characters per line. I just got into usenet News Group this week and I'm
still configuring SeaMonkey until I have time to learn how to use Emacs
properly.

On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 08:41:47 +0200, H1M3M <wipnoah@gmail.com> wrote:

>Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
>
>> Hey, "Heretic" was beloved on release. I remember the endless
>> discussion about the game here on c.s.i.p.g.action! It was never
>> destined to outshine "Doom" but it was generally received quite
>> favorably.
>
>Guess the info on internet (mostly reviews from the era) do not
>correlate with user opinions from back when it released. I did not try
>Heretic until 1997 or 1998 when I had my first PC (a P166 MMX, btw;
>currently being repaired and retrofitted), but talking about it would
>get me replies like "You are playing a pixelated game without polygons"
>and "Why play that at 320x200 when you could be playing Duke Nukem 3d at
>640x480?", from both the Quake / Unreal crowd, and the Build engine
>die-hard fans.

Seeing as "Heretic" came out in 1994 and "Duke Nukem 3D" released in
1996, I don't think there were a lot of suggestions that people should
be playing DN3D intead. Similarly, "Quake" - which more or less
jumpstarted the 3D revolution (yes, I see you there, "Descent" fans!*)
also released more than a year later than Heretic. So I don't think
that there was a lot of bitching about "Heretic" being sprite-based.
Pretty much /all/ FPS games (especially on DOS) at the time were
sprite-based and were played at 320x240.

Admittedly, "Heretic" got a lot of love simply because it was based on
the "Doom" engine (what we now call idTech1), and not everybody was
entranced by it (myself, I've never really warmed up to the game,
although I adored the sequel). Still, it was quite favorably received,
both critically and here on c.s.i.p.g.action.

>PS: I do hope this time the text is getting correctly formatted to 72
>characters per line. I just got into usenet News Group this week and I'm
>still configuring SeaMonkey until I have time to learn how to use Emacs
>properly.

Welcome to Usenet! We're not dead yet! ;-)

(Just curious: are you a Reddit refugee? There seems to have been an
uptick in new faces here, and that seems to have coincided with the
Reddit meltdown)

-------------------
* You too, "Terminator: Future Shock" fans!

Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> writes:

> Oh, the storyline/factions sucks!
> Oh, Preston Garvey and settlements and base building!*
> Oh, I don't feel like I'm making a difference!

I have to agree on these points. I did like FO4 once I figured out I can
just dump Garvey and his Minutemen and enjoy the game with minimum base
building stuff. I think I did use the base building interface to
disassemble some stuff for raw materials. And at least with some faction
you have to build a teleporter to get into the Institute's base.

> I had a blast with it. I logged 150 hours in it. I loved the start of the
> game when everyone gets nuked. I loved the factions (mostly). I loved
> Piper. I loved Fenway and my house in the ballpark. I loved the MILA
> quests from Tinker Tom. I loved the Brotherhood endgame. I loved the
> cryolater (!). I loved the junk jet. I loved the boss fights. I loved
> collecting bobbleheads (even the Luck one). I loved the pared down perks
> system. I loved scavenging for parts. Even crafting was fun, and I *hate*
> crafting.

What actually counts as crafting? Does modding gear count as crafting? I
definitely like that, I got a lot of armor and gunsmith skills so I
could carry more and make guns more powerful. I think Spalls said even
the System Shock Remake concept of collecting junk items and recycling
them for money is crafting. I had half a mind to install the mod for
making bullets yourself but didn't get around to it.

I can't remember the various endings, I played all of them (except
Minutemen) but they left me unsatisfied. The BoS made sense in FO3 but
in FO4 they just seem like crazy techno-religious hypocritical luddites.

> Hands down, best implementation of power armor ever. Why wasn't it always
> like this? Just amazing.

Was it? I ended up hoarding my power cells and ended up with a decent
set of legendary bits of ordinary armor so my power armor suits just
mostly stood outside rusting.

> Endlessly moddable. Didn't need them; a Bethesda first for me. But I
> downloaded Vault 1080 from Nvidia and got a neat premium godrays and
> lighting effects demo. Cool.

Well, yeess, the modding... For nuude babes. And load times. *That* I
really hated, FO4 was one of those stupid games that tied data loading
to vsync. So the mod turned vsync off during loads and there was a sound
effect with my loading screens as the GPU fans spun up when it was
suddenly asked to do 900 fps.

On Fri, 29 Sep 2023 18:17:55 +0300, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
Anssi Saari wrote:

>What actually counts as crafting? Does modding gear count as crafting?

I think so. Basically anything where you take elemental items (e.g.:
ceramics from a hot plate) and make something new or better is crafting
to me.

Since I loved power armor so much, I was endlessly tinkering with the
bits and pieces of it.

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

Spalls Hurgenson wrote:

> Welcome to Usenet! We're not dead yet! ;-)
>
> (Just curious: are you a Reddit refugee? There seems to have been an
> uptick in new faces here, and that seems to have coincided with the
> Reddit meltdown)

I have never been to Reddit, at least not on a daily / weekly / monthly
basis. I once created an account for using a very specific subreddit on
a very specific moment, but that's it.

I'm more like a refugee from modern technology. Losing bulletin boards
to Discord, excessive javascript and modals making web browsing an
infuriating experience, tracking and telemetry, DRM, centralized
services that change (for worse)at the whim of the megacorp that owns
it... and the trend of video-first taking over text based articles.
Suddenly News Groups feel liberating.

Not here for binaries or pirating stuff. Just looking for communication
and a different way of understanding communities. Plus, I like reading
text, and users here seem to put a lot more effort when there are no
pictures and you are not restricted to a measly 148 characters.

PS: As for the dumb nickname, that was me thinking "What would I have
picked if I had been accessing usenet as a stupid teen trying to look
edgy after watching Hackers (1995)?".

On Sat, 30 Sep 2023 10:46:22 +0200, H1MEM <wipnoah@gmail.com> wrote:

>I'm more like a refugee from modern technology. Losing bulletin boards
>to Discord, excessive javascript and modals making web browsing an
>infuriating experience, tracking and telemetry, DRM, centralized
>services that change (for worse)at the whim of the megacorp that owns
>it... and the trend of video-first taking over text based articles.
>Suddenly News Groups feel liberating.

>Not here for binaries or pirating stuff. Just looking for communication
>and a different way of understanding communities. Plus, I like reading
>text, and users here seem to put a lot more effort when there are no
>pictures and you are not restricted to a measly 148 characters.

Well, I don't think you'll find too many people here disagreeing with
that sentiment. I in particular love the text-only format (no emojis!
Well, except for the old-school ones ;-), although many here might say
I'm a bit excessive in my use of it (which is to say, I go on a bit).

Usenet had, for a long while, a reputation - in many cases, sadly, -
well deserved - for being an unmoderated ocean of spam and piracy -
but comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action has (knock on wood) largely avoided
that fate. Still, there's no denying that it's not quite the place it
used to be. In the early and mid-90s, this was one of the biggest PC
gaming discussion forums in the world (publishers used to announce
their games here. To bring it back to an earlier topic, "Heretic" was
announced here!). These days, it's just a small handful of
die-hards... but the discussions are no least earnest and honest, I
think. Still, more voices are always welcome... so welcome.

>PS: As for the dumb nickname, that was me thinking "What would I have
>picked if I had been accessing usenet as a stupid teen trying to look
>edgy after watching Hackers (1995)?".

Heh. I like it. Very MS-DOS.

On Sat, 30 Sep 2023 10:46:22 +0200, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
H1MEM wrote:

>PS: As for the dumb nickname, that was me thinking "What would I have
>picked if I had been accessing usenet as a stupid teen trying to look
>edgy after watching Hackers (1995)?".

Oooh! Are you Angelina Jolie? ;^)

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Sep 2023 10:46:22 +0200, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
> H1MEM wrote:

> >PS: As for the dumb nickname, that was me thinking "What would I have
> >picked if I had been accessing usenet as a stupid teen trying to look
> >edgy after watching Hackers (1995)?".

> Oooh! Are you Angelina Jolie? ;^)

"HACK THE PLANET!!!!!!!!!!!!"
--
"Though you have not seen [the resurrected Lord Jesus], you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, for you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls." --1 Peter 1:8-9. Last Sept. day b4 Oct. with a cold weekend! Damn mosquitoes (they're winning), illnesses, USA, etc.
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org.
/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o o| |
\ _ /
( )

On 9/30/2023 2:57 PM, Ant wrote:
> Zaghadka <zaghadka@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 30 Sep 2023 10:46:22 +0200, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
>> H1MEM wrote:
>
>>> PS: As for the dumb nickname, that was me thinking "What would I have
>>> picked if I had been accessing usenet as a stupid teen trying to look
>>> edgy after watching Hackers (1995)?".
>
>> Oooh! Are you Angelina Jolie? ;^)
>
> "HACK THE PLANET!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Planets are notoriously hard to hack. Destabilizing their star to
sterilize them is usually easier.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.