Years ago I pushed our company to use Macs. Core Image,
Quicktime, Apache, and so much software we needed came
preinstalled. XCode was okay, especially when it could edit RTFs.
And we previously used MPW on System 7.

I tried to use telnet a few days and it's gone. Telnet is
programmer tool that let's programmer explore most network
protocols by hand. It's real useful for programmers and doesn't
cost other customers when they don't use it.

I lost my 10.7 laptop which finally went the way of all silicon
flesh. I got 11.6 replacement, and my life has been hell on it.
Nothing is straightforward. XCode is hopeless. We've already
partially ported to Linux with ffmpeg replacing the dead
Quicktime and imagemagick Core Image.

I've come to realise MacOS has been Googlised. It's all AI which
decides it knows what I want to do instead of letting me do what
I want. Odd but it often decides I want to give Apple money.

I liked GUitarBand but I haven't found if it's still available.
Inkscape is broken with no other free SVG edittor, SeaShore
screws up pixel hits so pencil is broken. Otherwise there's not
much left for developping software on Macs. I think it's time to
argue to our company to abandon Macs except to run VirtualBox to
run Linux.

--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted. @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
Discordia: not just a religion but also a parody. This post / \
I am an Andrea Doria sockpuppet. insults Islam. Mohammed

On 2022-03-13 05:30:49 +0000, Siri Cruise said:
>
> Years ago I pushed our company to use Macs. Core Image,
> Quicktime, Apache, and so much software we needed came
> preinstalled. XCode was okay, especially when it could edit RTFs.
> And we previously used MPW on System 7.
>
> I tried to use telnet a few days and it's gone. Telnet is
> programmer tool that let's programmer explore most network
> protocols by hand. It's real useful for programmers and doesn't
> cost other customers when they don't use it.
>
> I lost my 10.7 laptop which finally went the way of all silicon
> flesh. I got 11.6 replacement, and my life has been hell on it.
> Nothing is straightforward. XCode is hopeless. We've already
> partially ported to Linux with ffmpeg replacing the dead
> Quicktime and imagemagick Core Image.
>
> I've come to realise MacOS has been Googlised. It's all AI which
> decides it knows what I want to do instead of letting me do what
> I want. Odd but it often decides I want to give Apple money.
>
> I liked GUitarBand but I haven't found if it's still available.
> Inkscape is broken with no other free SVG edittor,

According to the website, Inkscape works with Mac OS 10.11 - 12. If you
are having issues, you need ot take it up with the developer. It's
certainly got bugger all to do with Apple.

> SeaShore screws up pixel hits so pencil is broken.

As above.

> Otherwise there's not much left for developping software on Macs. I
> think it's time to argue to our company to abandon Macs except to run
> VirtualBox to
> run Linux.

Or, you can take your continual whining to another platofrm and leave us alone.

["Followup-To:" header set to comp.sys.mac.system.]
On 2022-03-13, Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Years ago I pushed our company to use Macs. Core Image,
> Quicktime, Apache, and so much software we needed came
> preinstalled. XCode was okay, especially when it could edit RTFs.
> And we previously used MPW on System 7.
>
> I tried to use telnet a few days and it's gone. Telnet is
> programmer tool that let's programmer explore most network
> protocols by hand. It's real useful for programmers and doesn't
> cost other customers when they don't use it.
>

The real 'programmer tool' is nc(1)

A telnet substitute using this:
nc -ct example.com 23

brew install telnet

el

On 2022-03-13 13:47 , johnson wrote:
> ["Followup-To:" header set to comp.sys.mac.system.]
> On 2022-03-13, Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Years ago I pushed our company to use Macs. Core Image,
>> Quicktime, Apache, and so much software we needed came
>> preinstalled. XCode was okay, especially when it could edit RTFs.
>> And we previously used MPW on System 7.
>>
>> I tried to use telnet a few days and it's gone. Telnet is
>> programmer tool that let's programmer explore most network
>> protocols by hand. It's real useful for programmers and doesn't
>> cost other customers when they don't use it.
>>
>
> The real 'programmer tool' is nc(1)
>
> A telnet substitute using this:
> nc -ct example.com 23
>

In message <VQkXJ.363417$8b1.141633@usenetxs.com> johnson <root@example.net> wrote:
> ["Followup-To:" header set to comp.sys.mac.system.]
> On 2022-03-13, Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Years ago I pushed our company to use Macs. Core Image,
>> Quicktime, Apache, and so much software we needed came
>> preinstalled. XCode was okay, especially when it could edit RTFs.
>> And we previously used MPW on System 7.
>>
>> I tried to use telnet a few days and it's gone. Telnet is
>> programmer tool that let's programmer explore most network
>> protocols by hand. It's real useful for programmers and doesn't
>> cost other customers when they don't use it.

telnet has been deprecated all over the place because it is horribly
insecure. There are mush better ways to connect to a remote machine,
starting with ssh.

> The real 'programmer tool' is nc(1)

> A telnet substitute using this:
> nc -ct example.com 23

That too, though finding anyone who willingly has a relent port open is
very rare anymore.

--
I took a deep breath and listened to the old brag of my heart.

I am, I am, I am.

On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 11:47:01 GMT, johnson wrote:

> ["Followup-To:" header set to comp.sys.mac.system.]
> On 2022-03-13, Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Years ago I pushed our company to use Macs. Core Image, Quicktime,
>> Apache, and so much software we needed came preinstalled. XCode was
>> okay, especially when it could edit RTFs.
>> And we previously used MPW on System 7.
>>
>> I tried to use telnet a few days and it's gone. Telnet is programmer
>> tool that let's programmer explore most network protocols by hand. It's
>> real useful for programmers and doesn't cost other customers when they
>> don't use it.
>>
>>
> The real 'programmer tool' is nc(1)
>
> A telnet substitute using this:
> nc -ct example.com 23

[blurb snipped]

I'll summarize:

Typing "telnet" is reflex for oldsters,
and proper in that context. Have a heart for those
of us (tinu?) that had to exist on the pre-ssh
Internet. And telnet(1) was used to test pretty much
anything having to do with tcp.

Meanwhile, oldsters might well "man nc" because really,
telnet is deprecated.

--
-v

On 2022-03-13 11:18 a.m., vallor wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 11:47:01 GMT, johnson wrote:

you're a little late

On 2022-03-13 11:16 a.m., Lewis wrote:
> In message <VQkXJ.363417$8b1.141633@usenetxs.com> johnson <root@example.net> wrote:
>> ["Followup-To:" header set to comp.sys.mac.system.]
>> On 2022-03-13, Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Years ago I pushed our company to use Macs. Core Image,
>>> Quicktime, Apache, and so much software we needed came
>>> preinstalled. XCode was okay, especially when it could edit RTFs.
>>> And we previously used MPW on System 7.
>>>
>>> I tried to use telnet a few days and it's gone. Telnet is
>>> programmer tool that let's programmer explore most network
>>> protocols by hand. It's real useful for programmers and doesn't
>>> cost other customers when they don't use it.
>
> telnet has been deprecated all over the place because it is horribly
> insecure. There are mush better ways to connect to a remote machine,
> starting with ssh.
>
>> The real 'programmer tool' is nc(1)
>
>> A telnet substitute using this:
>> nc -ct example.com 23
>
> That too, though finding anyone who willingly has a relent port open is
> very rare anymore.
>

Straight from nc's manpage:

'The nc (or netcat) utility is used for just about anything under the
sun involving TCP or UDP. It can open TCP connections, send UDP
packets, listen on arbitrary TCP and UDP ports, do port scanning, and
deal with both IPv4 and IPv6. Unlike telnet(1), nc scripts nicely, and
separates error messages onto standard error instead of sending them to
standard output, as telnet(1) does with some.'

On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 11:50:58 -0700, % wrote:

> On 2022-03-13 11:18 a.m., vallor wrote:
>> On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 11:47:01 GMT, johnson wrote:
>
> you're a little late

Late for what?

fu2: cola

In message <j96qr9Fmeg6U12@mid.individual.net> vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 11:47:01 GMT, johnson wrote:

>> ["Followup-To:" header set to comp.sys.mac.system.]
>> On 2022-03-13, Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Years ago I pushed our company to use Macs. Core Image, Quicktime,
>>> Apache, and so much software we needed came preinstalled. XCode was
>>> okay, especially when it could edit RTFs.
>>> And we previously used MPW on System 7.
>>>
>>> I tried to use telnet a few days and it's gone. Telnet is programmer
>>> tool that let's programmer explore most network protocols by hand. It's
>>> real useful for programmers and doesn't cost other customers when they
>>> don't use it.
>>>
>>>
>> The real 'programmer tool' is nc(1)
>>
>> A telnet substitute using this:
>> nc -ct example.com 23

> [blurb snipped]

> I'll summarize:

> Typing "telnet" is reflex for oldsters,
> and proper in that context. Have a heart for those
> of us (tinu?) that had to exist on the pre-ssh
> Internet. And telnet(1) was used to test pretty much
> anything having to do with tcp.

Was. As in, in the past.

Yes, I used telnet a lot in the 80s and 90s, but not since.

--
Oh never resist an impulse, Sabrina. Especially if it's terrible.

Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> writes:
> In message <j96qr9Fmeg6U12@mid.individual.net> vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote:
[...]
>> Typing "telnet" is reflex for oldsters,
>> and proper in that context. Have a heart for those
>> of us (tinu?) that had to exist on the pre-ssh
>> Internet. And telnet(1) was used to test pretty much
>> anything having to do with tcp.
>
> Was. As in, in the past.
>
> Yes, I used telnet a lot in the 80s and 90s, but not since.

I still often use "telnet hostname 22" as a way to test whether a
server's ssh daemon is running (and what version it is). (I use Ubuntu,
so whatever Apple has done to deprecate telnet doesn't affect me.)

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
Working, but not speaking, for Philips
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */

On 2022-03-13 22:41:04 +0000, Keith Thompson said:
> Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> writes:
>> In message <j96qr9Fmeg6U12@mid.individual.net> vallor
>> <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote:
> [...]
>>> Typing "telnet" is reflex for oldsters,
>>> and proper in that context. Have a heart for those
>>> of us (tinu?) that had to exist on the pre-ssh
>>> Internet. And telnet(1) was used to test pretty much
>>> anything having to do with tcp.
>>
>> Was. As in, in the past.
>>
>> Yes, I used telnet a lot in the 80s and 90s, but not since.
>
> I still often use "telnet hostname 22" as a way to test whether a
> server's ssh daemon is running (and what version it is). (I use Ubuntu,
> so whatever Apple has done to deprecate telnet doesn't affect me.)

As someone else posted, the replacement command is nc

macOS has a much better tool than telnet
for testing remote server connectivity

<https://www.igorkromin.net/index.php/2018/07/12/macos-has-a-much-better-tool-than-telnet-for-testing-remote-server-connectivity/>

The telnet utility has been gone since MacOS High Sierra (10.13), so
those only finding out it's missing now were either using an even older
version of MacOS recently or rarely actually use the command.

In message <8735jl5vcv.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com> Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> wrote:
> Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> writes:
>> In message <j96qr9Fmeg6U12@mid.individual.net> vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote:
> [...]
>>> Typing "telnet" is reflex for oldsters,
>>> and proper in that context. Have a heart for those
>>> of us (tinu?) that had to exist on the pre-ssh
>>> Internet. And telnet(1) was used to test pretty much
>>> anything having to do with tcp.
>>
>> Was. As in, in the past.
>>
>> Yes, I used telnet a lot in the 80s and 90s, but not since.

> I still often use "telnet hostname 22" as a way to test whether a
> server's ssh daemon is running (and what version it is).

Why?

openssl s_client -connec hostname:22

gives much more useful information:

SSL-Session:
Protocol : TLSv1.2
Cipher : 0000
Session-ID:
Session-ID-ctx:
Master-Key:
Start Time: 1647216246
Timeout : 7200 (sec)
Verify return code: 0 (ok)

--
W is for WINNIE embedded in ice
X is for XERXES devoured by mice

Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> writes:
> In message <8735jl5vcv.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com> Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> writes:
>>> In message <j96qr9Fmeg6U12@mid.individual.net> vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote:
>> [...]
>>>> Typing "telnet" is reflex for oldsters,
>>>> and proper in that context. Have a heart for those
>>>> of us (tinu?) that had to exist on the pre-ssh
>>>> Internet. And telnet(1) was used to test pretty much
>>>> anything having to do with tcp.
>>>
>>> Was. As in, in the past.
>>>
>>> Yes, I used telnet a lot in the 80s and 90s, but not since.
>
>> I still often use "telnet hostname 22" as a way to test whether a
>> server's ssh daemon is running (and what version it is).
>
> Why?
>
> openssl s_client -connec hostname:22

You mean "-connect".

> gives much more useful information:
>
> SSL-Session:
> Protocol : TLSv1.2
> Cipher : 0000
> Session-ID:
> Session-ID-ctx:
> Master-Key:
> Start Time: 1647216246
> Timeout : 7200 (sec)
> Verify return code: 0 (ok)

I use "telnet" because the command is easy to remember and it gives me
the information I'm interested in:

$ telnet [hostname deleted] 22
Trying [ip address deleted]...
Connected to [hostname deleted].
Escape character is '^]'.
SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_7.9p1 Debian-10+deb10u2
^]
telnet> Connection closed.
$

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com
Working, but not speaking, for Philips
void Void(void) { Void(); } /* The recursive call of the void */

On 2022-03-14 00:46:42 +0000, Keith Thompson said:

> Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> writes:
>> In message <8735jl5vcv.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com> Keith Thompson
>> <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Lewis <g.kreme@kreme.dont-email.me> writes:
>>>> In message <j96qr9Fmeg6U12@mid.individual.net> vallor
>>>> <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote:
>>> [...]
>>>>> Typing "telnet" is reflex for oldsters,
>>>>> and proper in that context. Have a heart for those
>>>>> of us (tinu?) that had to exist on the pre-ssh
>>>>> Internet. And telnet(1) was used to test pretty much
>>>>> anything having to do with tcp.
>>>>
>>>> Was. As in, in the past.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I used telnet a lot in the 80s and 90s, but not since.
>>
>>> I still often use "telnet hostname 22" as a way to test whether a
>>> server's ssh daemon is running (and what version it is).
>>
>> Why?
>>
>> openssl s_client -connec hostname:22
>
> You mean "-connect".
>
>> gives much more useful information:
>>
>> SSL-Session:
>> Protocol : TLSv1.2
>> Cipher : 0000
>> Session-ID:
>> Session-ID-ctx:
>> Master-Key:
>> Start Time: 1647216246
>> Timeout : 7200 (sec)
>> Verify return code: 0 (ok)
>
> I use "telnet" because the command is easy to remember and it gives me
> the information I'm interested in:
>
> $ telnet [hostname deleted] 22
> Trying [ip address deleted]...
> Connected to [hostname deleted].
> Escape character is '^]'.
> SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_7.9p1 Debian-10+deb10u2
> ^]
> telnet> Connection closed.
> $

There are a few options for installing telnet yourself.

Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> writes:

> I've come to realise MacOS has been Googlised. It's all AI which
> decides it knows what I want to do instead of letting me do what
> I want. Odd but it often decides I want to give Apple money.

Funny. I had a Powerbook in 2006 and felt the same. Well, not the AI
stuff, rather about the PTBs (or PHBs?) who at least used to decide
these things.

Anyways,, you were in Apple's target market until you weren't. I wasn't
even back in 2006. Although I dug out the Powerbook recently to digitize
some vinyls as I also have an old Firewire sound card and the 2006
Powerbook works fine for running old Audacity from 2014.

On 3/13/22 14:18, vallor wrote:
> telnet is deprecated.

except when it is not

On 2022-03-14 9:54 a.m., Popping Mad wrote:
> On 3/13/22 14:18, vallor wrote:
>> telnet is deprecated.
>
> except when it is not
>

Say something more meaningful than that, huh?

If one has been touch typing

telnet host.slt.TLD 22
telnet host.slt.TLD 25
telnet host.slt.TLD 587
telnet host.slt.TLD 80

for several decades, even

nc host.slt.TLD 22

does not come easy, let alone

openssl s_client -connect host.slt.TLD :22

The deprecation is satisfied by blocking port 23 (at least incoming)
on the firewall.

el
--
To email me replace 'nospam' with 'el'

On 2022-03-14 19:19 , Alan wrote:
> On 2022-03-14 9:54 a.m., Popping Mad wrote:
>> On 3/13/22 14:18, vallor wrote:
>>> telnet is deprecated.
>>
>> except when it is not
>>
>
> Say something more meaningful than that, huh?

On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 10:19:25 -0700
Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>On 2022-03-14 9:54 a.m., Popping Mad wrote:
>> On 3/13/22 14:18, vallor wrote:
>>> telnet is deprecated.
>>
>> except when it is not
>>
>
>Say something more meaningful than that, huh?

If you don't know why telnet is an extremely useful network debugging tool
there's little point trying to explain it to you.

Muttley@dastardlyhq.com writes:
>On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 10:19:25 -0700
>Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>On 2022-03-14 9:54 a.m., Popping Mad wrote:
>>> On 3/13/22 14:18, vallor wrote:
>>>> telnet is deprecated.
>>>
>>> except when it is not
>>>
>>
>>Say something more meaningful than that, huh?
>
>If you don't know why telnet is an extremely useful network debugging tool
>there's little point trying to explain it to you.
>

I'd point out that nc (nee netcat) has been a useful network debugging
tool for a quarter of a century. telnet (as a protocol) is, as I am sure
you are aware, quite insecure. Unix telnet also open source, so one could
quite simply compile it on MacOS if one really requires it and nc
isn't sufficient.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netcat#Ports_and_reimplementations

In article <Pn1YJ.195046$oF2.132309@fx10.iad>,
Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net> wrote:
....
>I'd point out that nc (nee netcat) has been a useful network debugging
>tool for a quarter of a century. telnet (as a protocol) is, as I am sure
>you are aware, quite insecure. Unix telnet also open source, so one could
>quite simply compile it on MacOS if one really requires it and nc
>isn't sufficient.
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netcat#Ports_and_reimplementations

I totally agree with this post. Incidentally, for Keith's benefit, here is
the netcat equivalent of his telnet command:

netcat -w1 localhost 22

Anyway, just to add one comment about nc/netcat, and that is that the one
bad thing about it is that there are 70 million subtly incompatible
versions of it floating around.

--
Q: How much do dead batteries cost?

A: Nothing. They are free of charge.

On 2022-03-15 6:32 a.m., Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 10:19:25 -0700
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>> On 2022-03-14 9:54 a.m., Popping Mad wrote:
>>> On 3/13/22 14:18, vallor wrote:
>>>> telnet is deprecated.
>>>
>>> except when it is not
>>>
>>
>> Say something more meaningful than that, huh?
>
> If you don't know why telnet is an extremely useful network debugging tool
> there's little point trying to explain it to you.
>

Telnet HAS been deprecated in MacOS

If you don't know what deprecated means, I can't help you.

On 15 Mar 2022 at 14:27:59 GMT, Scott Lurndal <Scott Lurndal> wrote:

> Muttley@dastardlyhq.com writes:
>> On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 10:19:25 -0700
>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>> On 2022-03-14 9:54 a.m., Popping Mad wrote:
>>>> On 3/13/22 14:18, vallor wrote:
>>>>> telnet is deprecated.
>>>>
>>>> except when it is not
>>>
>>> Say something more meaningful than that, huh?
>>
>> If you don't know why telnet is an extremely useful network debugging tool
>> there's little point trying to explain it to you.
>
> I'd point out that nc (nee netcat) has been a useful network debugging
> tool for a quarter of a century. telnet (as a protocol) is, as I am sure
> you are aware, quite insecure. Unix telnet also open source, so one could
> quite simply compile it on MacOS if one really requires it and nc
> isn't sufficient.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netcat#Ports_and_reimplementations

telnet still here under macOS Mojave.

--
Tim

In message <t0q4gh$9lt$1@gioia.aioe.org> Muttley@dastardlyhq.com <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 10:19:25 -0700
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>On 2022-03-14 9:54 a.m., Popping Mad wrote:
>>> On 3/13/22 14:18, vallor wrote:
>>>> telnet is deprecated.
>>>
>>> except when it is not
>>>
>>
>>Say something more meaningful than that, huh?

> If you don't know why telnet is an extremely useful network debugging tool
> there's little point trying to explain it to you.

Telnet had its day. There;s no reason to use it now and very good
reasons not to use it.

I closed the telnet port on all my servers in 1998 when I got ssh setup
for the first time.

--
Commander: "Seems odd you'd name your ship after a battle you were on the wrong
side of."
Mal: "May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."