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aus+uk / uk.comp.sys.mac / Re: Are zips really uncrackable?

SubjectAuthor
* Are zips really uncrackable?Commander Kinsey
+* Are zips really uncrackable?FromTheRafters
|`* Are zips really uncrackable?Commander Kinsey
| `* Are zips really uncrackable?FromTheRafters
|  `- Are zips really uncrackable?Commander Kinsey
+* Are zips really uncrackable?Paul
|`- Are zips really uncrackable?Commander Kinsey
+* Are zips really uncrackable?Tim Slattery
|+* Are zips really uncrackable?FromTheRafters
||`- Are zips really uncrackable?Commander Kinsey
|`* Are zips really uncrackable?Paul
| `* Are zips really uncrackable?Commander Kinsey
|  +* Are zips really uncrackable?Joerg Lorenz
|  |`- Are zips really uncrackable?Commander Kinsey
|  `* Are zips really uncrackable?Paul
|   `- Are zips really uncrackable?Commander Kinsey
`* Are zips really uncrackable?Mr. Man-wai Chang
 `* Are zips really uncrackable?Alan Browne
  `* Are zips really uncrackable?Mr. Man-wai Chang
   +* Are zips really uncrackable?Mr. Man-wai Chang
   |`- Are zips really uncrackable?Commander Kinsey
   +* Are zips really uncrackable?Alan Browne
   |+* Are zips really uncrackable?Chris
   ||+* Are zips really uncrackable?Alan Browne
   |||+* Are zips really uncrackable?Chris
   ||||`- Are zips really uncrackable?Alan Browne
   |||`- Are zips really uncrackable?Commander Kinsey
   ||+* Are zips really uncrackable?Paul
   |||+* Are zips really uncrackable?Char Jackson
   ||||`- Are zips really uncrackable?Paul
   |||`- Are zips really uncrackable?Commander Kinsey
   ||`* Are zips really uncrackable?mechanic
   || +* Are zips really uncrackable?J. J. Lodder
   || |+- Are zips really uncrackable?Chris
   || |`* Are zips really uncrackable?Alan Browne
   || | `* Are zips really uncrackable?J. J. Lodder
   || |  +* Are zips really uncrackable?nospam
   || |  |`- Are zips really uncrackable?J. J. Lodder
   || |  +- Are zips really uncrackable?Chris
   || |  +* Are zips really uncrackable?Commander Kinsey
   || |  |`* Are zips really uncrackable?J. J. Lodder
   || |  | `* Are zips really uncrackable?Commander Kinsey
   || |  |  `- Are zips really uncrackable?J. J. Lodder
   || |  +* Are zips really uncrackable?Brian Gregory
   || |  |`* Are zips really uncrackable?J. J. Lodder
   || |  | `- Are zips really uncrackable?Commander Kinsey
   || |  `- Are zips really uncrackable?Chris
   || `* Are zips really uncrackable?Chris
   ||  `* Are zips really uncrackable?Mr. Man-wai Chang
   ||   +* Are zips really uncrackable?J. J. Lodder
   ||   |`* Are zips really uncrackable?Commander Kinsey
   ||   | `* Are zips really uncrackable?J. J. Lodder
   ||   |  `* Are zips really uncrackable?Commander Kinsey
   ||   |   `* Are zips really uncrackable?J. J. Lodder
   ||   |    `- Are zips really uncrackable?Commander Kinsey
   ||   +- Are zips really uncrackable?Chris
   ||   `* Are zips really uncrackable?Commander Kinsey
   ||    `* Are zips really uncrackable?Joerg Lorenz
   ||     +* Are zips really uncrackable?J. J. Lodder
   ||     |`* Are zips really uncrackable?Joerg Lorenz
   ||     | `- Are zips really uncrackable?Commander Kinsey
   ||     `- Are zips really uncrackable?Commander Kinsey
   |`- Are zips really uncrackable?Commander Kinsey
   +* Are zips really uncrackable?FromTheRafters
   |`* Are zips really uncrackable?Mr. Man-wai Chang
   | +* Are zips really uncrackable?FromTheRafters
   | |`- Are zips really uncrackable?Commander Kinsey
   | `* Are zips really uncrackable?Commander Kinsey
   |  `* Are zips really uncrackable?FromTheRafters
   |   `* Are zips really uncrackable?Commander Kinsey
   |    `* Are zips really uncrackable?FromTheRafters
   |     `* Are zips really uncrackable?David Brooks
   |      +- Oops (was - Are zips really uncrackable?)David Brooks
   |      `* Are zips really uncrackable?Commander Kinsey
   |       `- Are zips really uncrackable?David Brooks
   `* Are zips really uncrackable?Commander Kinsey
    `* Are zips really uncrackable?Zaidy036
     `- Are zips really uncrackable?Commander Kinsey

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Re: Are zips really uncrackable?

<op.109cye1mmvhs6z@ryzen.home>

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Subject: Re: Are zips really uncrackable?
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 by: Commander Kinsey - Sat, 4 Mar 2023 01:26 UTC

On Mon, 20 Feb 2023 20:04:47 -0000, J. J. Lodder <nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:

> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2023-02-20 07:33, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>> > mechanic <mechanic@example.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Sun, 19 Feb 2023 22:56:10 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> As long as people need to type in passwords they aren't going to
>> >>> use long and complicated strings.
>> >>
>> >> No excuse!
>> >
>> > And long passwords need not be difficult.
>> > 1RoseByAnyOtherNameWillSmellAsSweet!
>> > will be just fine,
>>
>> Good, but insert a few numbers/spec chars in the middle too ... along
>> with a misspelled word and caps in the "wrong" places ... and it will be
>> as good as random where a dictionary+brute force attack occurs.
>
> Most sites insist nowadays on at least one digit,
> one capitalised letter, and one special sign.
> My example complies,

The insistance is irritating. I make a nice easy to remember password to use everywhere, then along comes a place with yet one more requirement. If you have a different password for every single thing, people have to write them down, and there goes security. Mine are all in an unencrypted text file. I've seen them on postit notes on the side of people's monitors.

Eye scanning is maybe better, then again I recently watched a TV program where they unlocked a phone using face recognition by aiming it at the sleeping person's face.

Re: Are zips really uncrackable?

<op.109c0dz5mvhs6z@ryzen.home>

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Subject: Re: Are zips really uncrackable?
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From: CK1...@nospam.com (Commander Kinsey)
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 by: Commander Kinsey - Sat, 4 Mar 2023 01:27 UTC

On Mon, 20 Feb 2023 15:00:46 -0000, Mr. Man-wai Chang <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 20/2/2023 8:42 pm, Chris wrote:
>>
>> At work one time, I set up my password as a 25 character random string via
>> my password manager which was great until they decided to sync the network
>> password with the local password on my machine. So when when I needed to
>> login after a reboot or screensaver kicks in I had to type it in manually.
>
> You should use your brain to memorize all 25-character random strings. :)

Our brains are pretty shit really.

I can still remember the 16 digit debit card number from one I had in 1994. But I can't remember any after that. And I could never remember the 3 digit security code!

Re: Are zips really uncrackable?

<op.109c02x7mvhs6z@ryzen.home>

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Subject: Re: Are zips really uncrackable?
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 by: Commander Kinsey - Sat, 4 Mar 2023 01:28 UTC

On Mon, 20 Feb 2023 20:04:48 -0000, J. J. Lodder <nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:

> Mr. Man-wai Chang <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 20/2/2023 8:42 pm, Chris wrote:
>> >
>> > At work one time, I set up my password as a 25 character random string via
>> > my password manager which was great until they decided to sync the network
>> > password with the local password on my machine. So when when I needed to
>> > login after a reboot or screensaver kicks in I had to type it in manually.
>>
>> You should use your brain to memorize all 25-character random strings.. :)
>
> No problem with that at all, for me.
> The problem is memorising a few particular ones,

Are you telling me you can remember something like £Q%HarbE^7jaerH$j4w6j?

Re: Are zips really uncrackable?

<op.109g45v9mvhs6z@ryzen.home>

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 by: Commander Kinsey - Sat, 4 Mar 2023 02:56 UTC

On Thu, 23 Feb 2023 10:15:03 -0000, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:

> Am 23.02.23 um 09:10 schrieb Commander Kinsey:
>> On Wed, 15 Feb 2023 17:09:44 -0000, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/15/2023 11:13 AM, Tim Slattery wrote:
>>>> "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Trying to get into a password protected zip. Got three instances of a free password cracker (Stella Data Recovery) running for the last handful of hours trying three different methods (they only use 1 core each). Still not got in. I find it hard to believe zips are that tightly sealed.
>>>>
>>>> The ZIP format was created for data compression, not security. Since
>>>> then password protection has been added to it. I guess it would be as
>>>> strong or weak as any other encrypted format.
>>>
>>> The export laws on crypto, historically had a chilling effect
>>> on crypto strength.
>>
>> No government can stop me encrypting how I wish, then sending it to anyone in any country.
>
> Sure. But you will be blacklisted and not allowed to fly anymore.
> Your next parking ticket is your death sentence ... :-D
>
> America is as totalitarian as Russia or China.
> But many Americans think they live in a free country.
>
> *ROTFLSTC*.

Then you disguise who you are when you send it.

Re: Are zips really uncrackable?

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 by: Commander Kinsey - Sat, 4 Mar 2023 03:00 UTC

On Thu, 23 Feb 2023 10:18:11 -0000, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

> On 2/23/2023 3:10 AM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> On Wed, 15 Feb 2023 17:09:44 -0000, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/15/2023 11:13 AM, Tim Slattery wrote:
>>>> "Commander Kinsey" <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Trying to get into a password protected zip. Got three instances of a free password cracker (Stella Data Recovery) running for the last handful of hours trying three different methods (they only use 1 core each). Still not got in. I find it hard to believe zips are that tightly sealed.
>>>>
>>>> The ZIP format was created for data compression, not security. Since
>>>> then password protection has been added to it. I guess it would be as
>>>> strong or weak as any other encrypted format.
>>>
>>> The export laws on crypto, historically had a chilling effect
>>> on crypto strength.
>>
>> No government can stop me encrypting how I wish, then sending it to anyone in any country.
>>
>>> And to some extent, that hasn't changed.
>>> It's only when it impacts the competitiveness of a country,
>>> that it stops.
>>>
>>> It used to be "you stop it before it happens" was how
>>> you handled crypto. Today, it's the usage of rubber hoses
>>> which is the preferred method (the TrueCrypt mystery,
>>> and legislative attempts to build backdoors).
>>>
>>> When ZIP was invented, elliptic curve didn't exist. But
>>> there were still likely to have been methods which signal
>>> you are using the "tough" version. Using a weak-as-piss
>>> method ensures your product can be Exported.
>>>
>>> The same kinds of things happened on PDF format.
>>>
>>> And the old protection on ZIP is so weak, if Google wants to,
>>> they can scan ZIP attachments in GMail with that protection method,
>>> in "real time". You can't have a much weaker crypto than that.
>>> It's no barrier at all.
>>>
>>> The newer method on the other hand, is more of an impediment.
>>>
>>> Even the encryption on 7Z has had the odd issue, but these
>>> implementation details have been corrected.
>>
>> Isn't 7zip just a zip program, using the same standards as any other?
>
> Just as RAR has a custom compressor (and charges money for it),
> 7ZIP has a custom compressor (7z) and it is free.
>
> I think these are arithmetic compressors, similar to LZMA, but
> you'll probably find a wikipedia entry with the details.
>
> The other thing it has, is a pre-processor. There is a method
> for re-encoding EXE files, and if 7Z senses EXE files, it passes
> the data through the pre-processor, before the main 7Z compression
> step runs.
>
> 7ZIP has multithreaded compression and multithreaded decompression.
> By using all the cores, the slow LZMA-like method is delivered at
> moderate speed.

Everything should be multithreaded, we've had multicore CPUs for donkey's years.

> To compress a hard drive full of data with 7Z, costs about $1 worth
> of electricity. Just to give some idea, that certain computing things
> do cost real money. A machine can grind for most of the day,
> compressing a disk drive.

Does it cost much to have a drive compressed by Windows? Every time you read and write you're using the processor. But less of the drive motor and the wear on it.

> Some of the other compressors built into 7Z, are not multicore.
> The winZIP compressor is probably not running on multiple cores.
>
> PIGZ is a parallel version of GZIP. It uses multiple cores during
> compression, but only one core during decompression. And the
> multiple cores, may have a limit. Whereas 7ZIP can use all your
> cores for .7z .
>
> On Win10 or Win11, you set the thread count to 2x as many as
> the CPU. A CPU with 6C 12T, you set the thread count to 24,
> so that the 12 virtual cores are well-loaded. This helps keep
> the CPU usage bar at 100%. If you set the thread count to 12
> (one per virtual core), it only runs at about 80% or so.
> Since the dictionary size for Ultra mode is 600MB per thread,
> 24*600 = close to 16GB of RAM. So if you want to make your
> CPU as hot as possible, you need sufficient RAM for all the
> threads of execution to use.

Doing that might overload the caches and slow it down.

> And then, when 7ZIP is finished all that mumbo-jumbp, it
> can do a pass of AES256 and encrypt the output blocks.
> Encryption is done after compression, because encrypted
> data does not compress. That's how you can tell the
> quality of encryption, if it does not compress and
> the file becomes smaller.

Re: Are zips really uncrackable?

<ttupc7$1j3eg$2@solani.org>

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From: hugyb...@gmx.ch (Joerg Lorenz)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: Are zips really uncrackable?
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2023 07:44:23 +0100
Message-ID: <ttupc7$1j3eg$2@solani.org>
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 by: Joerg Lorenz - Sat, 4 Mar 2023 06:44 UTC

Am 04.03.23 um 02:27 schrieb Commander Kinsey:
> On Mon, 20 Feb 2023 15:00:46 -0000, Mr. Man-wai Chang <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 20/2/2023 8:42 pm, Chris wrote:
>>>
>>> At work one time, I set up my password as a 25 character random string via
>>> my password manager which was great until they decided to sync the network
>>> password with the local password on my machine. So when when I needed to
>>> login after a reboot or screensaver kicks in I had to type it in manually.
>>
>> You should use your brain to memorize all 25-character random strings. :)
>
> Our brains are pretty shit really.

Simply irrelevant for the survival of mankind.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

Re: Are zips really uncrackable?

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From: nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: Are zips really uncrackable?
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2023 11:14:12 +0100
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 by: J. J. Lodder - Sat, 4 Mar 2023 10:14 UTC

Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 20 Feb 2023 20:04:47 -0000, J. J. Lodder:
>
> > Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 2023-02-20 07:33, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> >> > mechanic <mechanic@example.net> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On Sun, 19 Feb 2023 22:56:10 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> As long as people need to type in passwords they aren't going to
> >> >>> use long and complicated strings.
> >> >>
> >> >> No excuse!
> >> >
> >> > And long passwords need not be difficult.
> >> > 1RoseByAnyOtherNameWillSmellAsSweet!
> >> > will be just fine,
> >>
> >> Good, but insert a few numbers/spec chars in the middle too ... along
> >> with a misspelled word and caps in the "wrong" places ... and it will be
> >> as good as random where a dictionary+brute force attack occurs.
> >
> > Most sites insist nowadays on at least one digit,
> > one capitalised letter, and one special sign.
> > My example complies,
>
> The insistance is irritating. I make a nice easy to remember password to
> use everywhere, then along comes a place with yet one more requirement.
> If you have a different password for every single thing, people have to
> write them down, and there goes security. Mine are all in an unencrypted
> text file.

Yes. You can make a small encrypted disk image though,
(using Disk Utility) and put the file on that.
Then you only need to remember the password for the passwords....

> I've seen them on postit notes on the side of people's
> monitors.

Yes, French TV5 got hacked that way, sometime ago.
They had the bright idea of showing their TV viewers
how the worked in the studio.

Some viewer noted the yellow piece of paper
with the master password, stuck on a screen,

Jan

Re: Are zips really uncrackable?

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Subject: Re: Are zips really uncrackable?
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2023 11:14:12 +0100
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 by: J. J. Lodder - Sat, 4 Mar 2023 10:14 UTC

Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 20 Feb 2023 20:04:48 -0000, J. J. Lodder:
>
> > Mr. Man-wai Chang <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 20/2/2023 8:42 pm, Chris wrote:
> >> >
> >> > At work one time, I set up my password as a 25 character random
> >> > string via my password manager which was great until they decided to
> >> > sync the network password with the local password on my machine. So
> >> > when when I needed to login after a reboot or screensaver kicks in I
> >> > had to type it in manually.
> >>
> >> You should use your brain to memorize all 25-character random strings.
> >>:)
> >
> > No problem with that at all, for me.
> > The problem is memorising a few particular ones,
>
> Are you telling me you can remember something like £Q%HarbE^7jaerH$j4w6j?

Do read again what I wrote,

Jan

Re: Are zips really uncrackable?

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 by: J. J. Lodder - Sat, 4 Mar 2023 10:14 UTC

Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:

> Am 04.03.23 um 02:27 schrieb Commander Kinsey:
> > On Mon, 20 Feb 2023 15:00:46 -0000, Mr. Man-wai Chang:
> >
> >> On 20/2/2023 8:42 pm, Chris wrote:
> >>>
> >>> At work one time, I set up my password as a 25 character random string via
> >>> my password manager which was great until they decided to sync the network
> >>> password with the local password on my machine. So when when I needed to
> >>> login after a reboot or screensaver kicks in I had to type it in manually.
> >>
> >> You should use your brain to memorize all 25-character random strings. :)
> >
> > Our brains are pretty shit really.
>
> Simply irrelevant for the survival of mankind.

"I don't need to be able to outrun a bear"
"It's good enough if I can outrun you"

Jan

Re: Are zips really uncrackable?

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From: hugyb...@gmx.ch (Joerg Lorenz)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: Are zips really uncrackable?
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2023 11:45:01 +0100
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 by: Joerg Lorenz - Sat, 4 Mar 2023 10:45 UTC

Am 04.03.23 um 11:14 schrieb J. J. Lodder:
> Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
>
>> Am 04.03.23 um 02:27 schrieb Commander Kinsey:
>>> On Mon, 20 Feb 2023 15:00:46 -0000, Mr. Man-wai Chang:
>>>
>>>> On 20/2/2023 8:42 pm, Chris wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> At work one time, I set up my password as a 25 character random string via
>>>>> my password manager which was great until they decided to sync the network
>>>>> password with the local password on my machine. So when when I needed to
>>>>> login after a reboot or screensaver kicks in I had to type it in manually.
>>>>
>>>> You should use your brain to memorize all 25-character random strings. :)
>>>
>>> Our brains are pretty shit really.
>>
>> Simply irrelevant for the survival of mankind.
>
> "I don't need to be able to outrun a bear"
> "It's good enough if I can outrun you"

Dummschwätzer.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

Re: Are zips really uncrackable?

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 by: Commander Kinsey - Mon, 13 Mar 2023 00:29 UTC

On Wed, 01 Mar 2023 21:49:12 -0000, FromTheRafters <FTR@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:

> It happens that Commander Kinsey formulated :
>> On Sun, 19 Feb 2023 05:54:34 -0000, Mr. Man-wai Chang
>> <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 19/2/2023 1:18 am, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Modified Brute Force attack.
>>>>
>>>> Twice Modified Brute Force attack.
>>>>
>>>> Brute Force attack.
>>>
>>>
>>> People might not know the meaning of "brute force". Picking phyical
>>> locks might be easier to understand. :)
>>
>> Everybody knows what brute force is.
>
> A cryptography 'jargon' term for an exhaustive key search.

I thought Mr. Man-wai Chang meant people might not know the everyday phrase.

Re: Are zips really uncrackable?

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 by: Commander Kinsey - Mon, 13 Mar 2023 00:30 UTC

On Wed, 01 Mar 2023 22:31:12 -0000, Zaidy036 <Zaidy036@air.isp.spam> wrote:

> On 3/1/2023 3:32 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
>> On Sat, 18 Feb 2023 13:35:15 -0000, Mr. Man-wai Chang
>> <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>
>>> It's still a dictonary hack, using a human languagte called Hebrew! :)
>>
>> They're not human.
>>
>
> Really? If you think that then nobody is

They're a different species (biological fact).

> and since a lot of the computer
> hardware and code was developed by them you should not be using any of it.

The hacker code perhaps.

Re: Are zips really uncrackable?

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 by: FromTheRafters - Mon, 13 Mar 2023 11:25 UTC

on 3/12/2023, Commander Kinsey supposed :
> On Wed, 01 Mar 2023 21:49:12 -0000, FromTheRafters <FTR@nomail.afraid.org>
> wrote:
>
>> It happens that Commander Kinsey formulated :
>>> On Sun, 19 Feb 2023 05:54:34 -0000, Mr. Man-wai Chang
>>> <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 19/2/2023 1:18 am, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Modified Brute Force attack.
>>>>>
>>>>> Twice Modified Brute Force attack.
>>>>>
>>>>> Brute Force attack.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> People might not know the meaning of "brute force". Picking phyical
>>>> locks might be easier to understand. :)
>>>
>>> Everybody knows what brute force is.
>>
>> A cryptography 'jargon' term for an exhaustive key search.
>
> I thought Mr. Man-wai Chang meant people might not know the everyday phrase.

That very well may be. I put it back in context.

Re: Are zips really uncrackable?

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Subject: Re: Are zips really uncrackable?
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From: Dav...@nomail.afraid.org (David Brooks)
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 by: David Brooks - Mon, 13 Mar 2023 11:54 UTC

On 13/03/2023 11:25, FromTheRafters wrote:
> on 3/12/2023, Commander Kinsey supposed :
>> On Wed, 01 Mar 2023 21:49:12 -0000, FromTheRafters
>> <FTR@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>>
>>> It happens that Commander Kinsey formulated :
>>>> On Sun, 19 Feb 2023 05:54:34 -0000, Mr. Man-wai Chang
>>>> <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 19/2/2023 1:18 am, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Modified Brute Force attack.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Twice Modified Brute Force attack.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Brute Force attack.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> People might not know the meaning of "brute force". Picking phyical
>>>>> locks might be easier to understand. :)
>>>>
>>>> Everybody knows what brute force is.
>>>
>>> A cryptography 'jargon' term for an exhaustive key search.
>>
>> I thought Mr. Man-wai Chang meant people might not know the everyday
>> phrase.
>
> That very well may be. I put it back in context.

Did you tech THIS fellow?

https://youtu.be/EpBWFF8i_gc

Oops (was - Are zips really uncrackable?)

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 by: David Brooks - Mon, 13 Mar 2023 15:22 UTC

Oops!

> Did you teach THIS fellow?
>
> https://youtu.be/EpBWFF8i_gc

Re: Are zips really uncrackable?

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From: CK1...@nospam.com (Commander Kinsey)
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 by: Commander Kinsey - Fri, 17 Mar 2023 18:23 UTC

On Sat, 04 Mar 2023 10:14:12 -0000, J. J. Lodder <nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:

> Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 20 Feb 2023 20:04:47 -0000, J. J. Lodder:
>>
>> > Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 2023-02-20 07:33, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>> >> > mechanic <mechanic@example.net> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> On Sun, 19 Feb 2023 22:56:10 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> As long as people need to type in passwords they aren't going to
>> >> >>> use long and complicated strings.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> No excuse!
>> >> >
>> >> > And long passwords need not be difficult.
>> >> > 1RoseByAnyOtherNameWillSmellAsSweet!
>> >> > will be just fine,
>> >>
>> >> Good, but insert a few numbers/spec chars in the middle too ... along
>> >> with a misspelled word and caps in the "wrong" places ... and it will be
>> >> as good as random where a dictionary+brute force attack occurs.
>> >
>> > Most sites insist nowadays on at least one digit,
>> > one capitalised letter, and one special sign.
>> > My example complies,
>>
>> The insistance is irritating. I make a nice easy to remember password to
>> use everywhere, then along comes a place with yet one more requirement.
>> If you have a different password for every single thing, people have to
>> write them down, and there goes security. Mine are all in an unencrypted
>> text file.
>
> Yes. You can make a small encrypted disk image though,
> (using Disk Utility) and put the file on that.
> Then you only need to remember the password for the passwords....

Isn't it easier just to encrypt the file?

>> I've seen them on postit notes on the side of people's
>> monitors.
>
> Yes, French TV5 got hacked that way, sometime ago.
> They had the bright idea of showing their TV viewers
> how the worked in the studio.

Easy enough mistake to make.

> Some viewer noted the yellow piece of paper
> with the master password, stuck on a screen,

ROFL! Same happened with a photo of a Dell Windows license. Apparently those codes are important. I've never had a genuine license so I wouldn't know. I'm one of the 47% of the world that says fuck you to copyright.

Re: Are zips really uncrackable?

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 by: Commander Kinsey - Fri, 17 Mar 2023 18:24 UTC

On Sat, 04 Mar 2023 10:14:12 -0000, J. J. Lodder <nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:

> Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 20 Feb 2023 20:04:48 -0000, J. J. Lodder:
>>
>> > Mr. Man-wai Chang <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 20/2/2023 8:42 pm, Chris wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > At work one time, I set up my password as a 25 character random
>> >> > string via my password manager which was great until they decided to
>> >> > sync the network password with the local password on my machine. So
>> >> > when when I needed to login after a reboot or screensaver kicks in I
>> >> > had to type it in manually.
>> >>
>> >> You should use your brain to memorize all 25-character random strings.
>> >>:)
>> >
>> > No problem with that at all, for me.
>> > The problem is memorising a few particular ones,
>>
>> Are you telling me you can remember something like £Q%HarbE^7jaerH$j4w6j?
>
> Do read again what I wrote,

You only wrote:
>> > No problem with that at all, for me.
>> > The problem is memorising a few particular ones,
What exactly did I miss?

Re: Are zips really uncrackable?

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From: CK1...@nospam.com (Commander Kinsey)
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 by: Commander Kinsey - Fri, 17 Mar 2023 18:26 UTC

On Sat, 04 Mar 2023 10:45:01 -0000, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:

> Am 04.03.23 um 11:14 schrieb J. J. Lodder:
>> Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
>>
>>> Am 04.03.23 um 02:27 schrieb Commander Kinsey:
>>>> On Mon, 20 Feb 2023 15:00:46 -0000, Mr. Man-wai Chang:
>>>>
>>>>> On 20/2/2023 8:42 pm, Chris wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At work one time, I set up my password as a 25 character random string via
>>>>>> my password manager which was great until they decided to sync the network
>>>>>> password with the local password on my machine. So when when I needed to
>>>>>> login after a reboot or screensaver kicks in I had to type it in manually.
>>>>>
>>>>> You should use your brain to memorize all 25-character random strings. :)
>>>>
>>>> Our brains are pretty shit really.
>>>
>>> Simply irrelevant for the survival of mankind.
>>
>> "I don't need to be able to outrun a bear"
>> "It's good enough if I can outrun you"
>
> Dummschwätzer.

German is so much more expressive.

Re: Are zips really uncrackable?

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 by: Commander Kinsey - Fri, 17 Mar 2023 18:27 UTC

On Sat, 04 Mar 2023 06:44:23 -0000, Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:

> Am 04.03.23 um 02:27 schrieb Commander Kinsey:
>> On Mon, 20 Feb 2023 15:00:46 -0000, Mr. Man-wai Chang <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 20/2/2023 8:42 pm, Chris wrote:
>>>>
>>>> At work one time, I set up my password as a 25 character random string via
>>>> my password manager which was great until they decided to sync the network
>>>> password with the local password on my machine. So when when I needed to
>>>> login after a reboot or screensaver kicks in I had to type it in manually.
>>>
>>> You should use your brain to memorize all 25-character random strings. :)
>>
>> Our brains are pretty shit really.
>
> Simply irrelevant for the survival of mankind.

The cleverer you are the better your job, the more women you get, the more kids you have, the more likely your genes keep going.

Please, stop fucking stupid ugly people, you're ruining evolution.

Re: Are zips really uncrackable?

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From: nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: Are zips really uncrackable?
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2023 21:38:21 +0100
Organization: De Ster
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 by: J. J. Lodder - Sat, 18 Mar 2023 20:38 UTC

Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

> On Sat, 04 Mar 2023 10:14:12 -0000, J. J. Lodder <nospam@de-ster.demon.nl>:
>
> > Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, 20 Feb 2023 20:04:47 -0000, J. J. Lodder:
> >>
> >> > Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On 2023-02-20 07:33, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> >> >> > mechanic <mechanic@example.net> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> On Sun, 19 Feb 2023 22:56:10 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>> As long as people need to type in passwords they aren't going to
> >> >> >>> use long and complicated strings.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> No excuse!
> >> >> >
> >> >> > And long passwords need not be difficult.
> >> >> > 1RoseByAnyOtherNameWillSmellAsSweet!
> >> >> > will be just fine,
> >> >>
> >> >> Good, but insert a few numbers/spec chars in the middle too ... along
> >> >> with a misspelled word and caps in the "wrong" places ... and it will be
> >> >> as good as random where a dictionary+brute force attack occurs.
> >> >
> >> > Most sites insist nowadays on at least one digit,
> >> > one capitalised letter, and one special sign.
> >> > My example complies,
> >>
> >> The insistance is irritating. I make a nice easy to remember password to
> >> use everywhere, then along comes a place with yet one more requirement.
> >> If you have a different password for every single thing, people have to
> >> write them down, and there goes security. Mine are all in an unencrypted
> >> text file.
> >
> > Yes. You can make a small encrypted disk image though,
> > (using Disk Utility) and put the file on that.
> > Then you only need to remember the password for the passwords....
>
> Isn't it easier just to encrypt the file?

More work. Actually they are not files.
When needed, I just create an empty folder,
and put the data in the folder name.
If I want it to be a file I zip the empty folder.
Copying is by just clicking on the folder, not the name,
and hitting return and Cmd-C.

They are all together on an encrypted disk image,
which has a memorable password.

Jan

Re: Are zips really uncrackable?

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From: nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: Are zips really uncrackable?
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2023 21:38:21 +0100
Organization: De Ster
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 by: J. J. Lodder - Sat, 18 Mar 2023 20:38 UTC

Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:

> On Sat, 04 Mar 2023 10:14:12 -0000, J. J. Lodder <nospam@de-ster.demon.nl>:
>
> > Commander Kinsey <CK1@nospam.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, 20 Feb 2023 20:04:48 -0000, J. J. Lodder:
> >>
> >> > Mr. Man-wai Chang <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On 20/2/2023 8:42 pm, Chris wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > At work one time, I set up my password as a 25 character random
> >> >> > string via my password manager which was great until they decided to
> >> >> > sync the network password with the local password on my machine. So
> >> >> > when when I needed to login after a reboot or screensaver kicks in I
> >> >> > had to type it in manually.
> >> >>
> >> >> You should use your brain to memorize all 25-character random strings.
> >> >>:)
> >> >
> >> > No problem with that at all, for me.
> >> > The problem is memorising a few particular ones,
> >>
> >> Are you telling me you can remember something like £Q%HarbE^7jaerH$j4w6j?
> >
> > Do read again what I wrote,
>
> You only wrote:
> >> > No problem with that at all, for me.
> >> > The problem is memorising a few particular ones,
> What exactly did I miss?

I can remember all of them, and none in particular,

Jan

Re: Are zips really uncrackable?

<op.112n7jnzmvhs6z@ryzen.home>

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Subject: Re: Are zips really uncrackable?
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From: CK1...@nospam.com (Commander Kinsey)
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 by: Commander Kinsey - Sun, 19 Mar 2023 21:19 UTC

On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 11:54:56 -0000, David Brooks <DavidB@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:

> On 13/03/2023 11:25, FromTheRafters wrote:
>> on 3/12/2023, Commander Kinsey supposed :
>>> On Wed, 01 Mar 2023 21:49:12 -0000, FromTheRafters
>>> <FTR@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> It happens that Commander Kinsey formulated :
>>>>> On Sun, 19 Feb 2023 05:54:34 -0000, Mr. Man-wai Chang
>>>>> <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 19/2/2023 1:18 am, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Modified Brute Force attack.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Twice Modified Brute Force attack.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Brute Force attack.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> People might not know the meaning of "brute force". Picking phyical
>>>>>> locks might be easier to understand. :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Everybody knows what brute force is.
>>>>
>>>> A cryptography 'jargon' term for an exhaustive key search.
>>>
>>> I thought Mr. Man-wai Chang meant people might not know the everyday
>>> phrase.
>>
>> That very well may be. I put it back in context.
>
> Did you tech THIS fellow?
>
> https://youtu.be/EpBWFF8i_gc

Fucking hell, that beats any other one I've seen.

Re: Are zips really uncrackable?

<BWLRL.1891845$vBI8.93033@fx15.iad>

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From: Dav...@nomail.afraid.org (David Brooks)
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 by: David Brooks - Sun, 19 Mar 2023 22:22 UTC

On 19/03/2023 21:19, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Mar 2023 11:54:56 -0000, David Brooks
> <DavidB@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>
>> On 13/03/2023 11:25, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>> on 3/12/2023, Commander Kinsey supposed :
>>>> On Wed, 01 Mar 2023 21:49:12 -0000, FromTheRafters
>>>> <FTR@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It happens that Commander Kinsey formulated :
>>>>>> On Sun, 19 Feb 2023 05:54:34 -0000, Mr. Man-wai Chang
>>>>>> <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 19/2/2023 1:18 am, FromTheRafters wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Modified Brute Force attack.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Twice Modified Brute Force attack.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Brute Force attack.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> People might not know the meaning of "brute force". Picking phyical
>>>>>>> locks might be easier to understand. :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Everybody knows what brute force is.
>>>>>
>>>>> A cryptography 'jargon' term for an exhaustive key search.
>>>>
>>>> I thought Mr. Man-wai Chang meant people might not know the everyday
>>>> phrase.
>>>
>>> That very well may be. I put it back in context.
>>
>> Did you teach THIS fellow?
>>
>> https://youtu.be/EpBWFF8i_gc
>
> Fucking hell, that beats any other one I've seen.

Pure fun! 😃

Re: Are zips really uncrackable?

<k7pthdFpbu2U1@mid.individual.net>

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From: void-inv...@email.invalid (Brian Gregory)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.computer.workshop,uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: Are zips really uncrackable?
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2023 02:08:45 +0000
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 by: Brian Gregory - Mon, 20 Mar 2023 02:08 UTC

On 20/02/2023 20:04, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2023-02-20 07:33, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>> mechanic <mechanic@example.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 19 Feb 2023 22:56:10 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> As long as people need to type in passwords they aren't going to
>>>>> use long and complicated strings.
>>>>
>>>> No excuse!
>>>
>>> And long passwords need not be difficult.
>>> 1RoseByAnyOtherNameWillSmellAsSweet!
>>> will be just fine,
>>
>> Good, but insert a few numbers/spec chars in the middle too ... along
>> with a misspelled word and caps in the "wrong" places ... and it will be
>> as good as random where a dictionary+brute force attack occurs.
>
> Most sites insist nowadays on at least one digit,
> one capitalised letter, and one special sign.
> My example complies,

I often seem to manage to pick the one special character that isn't
allowed! Then the website doesn't tell me what's wrong, it just repeats
what it already told me, something like "your password must include at
least 8 characters including one lowercase letter, one uppercase letter,
one digit, and one special character or punctuation symbol".

--
Brian Gregory (in England).

Re: Are zips really uncrackable?

<tv95r2$3f0ph$1@dont-email.me>

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From: ithink...@gmail.com (Chris)
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-11,alt.comp.os.windows-10,alt.computer.workshop,uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: Are zips really uncrackable?
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2023 08:34:42 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Chris - Mon, 20 Mar 2023 08:34 UTC

J. J. Lodder <nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:
> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2023-02-20 07:33, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>> mechanic <mechanic@example.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 19 Feb 2023 22:56:10 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> As long as people need to type in passwords they aren't going to
>>>>> use long and complicated strings.
>>>>
>>>> No excuse!
>>>
>>> And long passwords need not be difficult.
>>> 1RoseByAnyOtherNameWillSmellAsSweet!
>>> will be just fine,
>>
>> Good, but insert a few numbers/spec chars in the middle too ... along
>> with a misspelled word and caps in the "wrong" places ... and it will be
>> as good as random where a dictionary+brute force attack occurs.
>
> Most sites insist nowadays on at least one digit,
> one capitalised letter, and one special sign.
> My example complies,

Many (increasingly?) sites have ridiculously low length limits as well. A
recent one was 8 characters, but often it's around 20. Your example
wouldn't work there.

That's why I gave up on an "internal algorithm" as I had to either have
several or make it as weak as the worst site.

Now I use a password manager.

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