Is the roaming that you can turn on or off on the phone the data only
roaming or is it cellular only roaming, or both?

Larry Wolff <larrywolff@larrywolff.net> wrote:
> Is the roaming that you can turn on or off on the phone the data only
> roaming or is it cellular only roaming, or both?

Depends on what phone you have. On iphone it's only data roaming.

On Wed, 20 Mar 2024 07:32:45 -0000 (UTC), Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Larry Wolff <larrywolff@larrywolff.net> wrote:
>> Is the roaming that you can turn on or off on the phone the data only
>> roaming or is it cellular only roaming, or both?
>
>Depends on what phone you have. On iphone it's only data roaming.

Even then you have to be careful as you might still get charged.

I had data roaming switched off on my phone but when I powered it on
there must have been a few bytes that crept through and I got charged
for a whole day's roaming. Better to turn off mobile data completely
to be 100% sure.

This was several years ago now. I think the mobile networks have more
recently realised this can be a problem and allow you a small amount
of data before they start charging.

On Thu 21/03/2024 13:20, Chris in Makati wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Mar 2024 07:32:45 -0000 (UTC), Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Larry Wolff <larrywolff@larrywolff.net> wrote:
>>> Is the roaming that you can turn on or off on the phone the data only
>>> roaming or is it cellular only roaming, or both?
>>
>> Depends on what phone you have. On iphone it's only data roaming.
>
> Even then you have to be careful as you might still get charged.
>
> I had data roaming switched off on my phone but when I powered it on
> there must have been a few bytes that crept through and I got charged
> for a whole day's roaming. Better to turn off mobile data completely
> to be 100% sure.
>
> This was several years ago now. I think the mobile networks have more
> recently realised this can be a problem and allow you a small amount
> of data before they start charging.

The small amount of data would surely be the phone logging on? You can
never avoid that. I wonder also if there is any charge made for the
small quantity of data used during the handshake and power negotions or
does that come out of the handling elsewhere in the data structure?

On 21/03/2024 15:54, Woody wrote:
> On Thu 21/03/2024 13:20, Chris in Makati wrote:
>> On Wed, 20 Mar 2024 07:32:45 -0000 (UTC), Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Larry Wolff <larrywolff@larrywolff.net> wrote:
>>>> Is the roaming that you can turn on or off on the phone the data only
>>>> roaming or is it cellular only roaming, or both?
>>>
>>> Depends on what phone you have. On iphone it's only data roaming.
>>
>> Even then you have to be careful as you might still get charged.
>>
>> I had data roaming switched off on my phone but  when I powered it on
>> there must have been a few bytes that crept through and I got charged
>> for a whole day's roaming. Better to turn off mobile data completely
>> to be 100% sure.
>>
>> This was several years ago now. I think the mobile networks have more
>> recently realised this can be a problem and allow you a small amount
>> of data before they start charging.
>
> The small amount of data would surely be the phone logging on? You can
> never avoid that. I wonder also if there is any charge made for the
> small quantity of data used during the handshake and power negotions or
> does that come out of the handling elsewhere in the data structure?
>
Better to disable data roaming on your account portal (if you can)

I got stung in Canada for 6 quid, because about 100k 'leaked through'.

I protested, and EE did refund the amount without any fuss.

Mark Carver <mark@invalid.com> writes:

> On 21/03/2024 15:54, Woody wrote:
>> On Thu 21/03/2024 13:20, Chris in Makati wrote:
>>> On Wed, 20 Mar 2024 07:32:45 -0000 (UTC), Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Larry Wolff <larrywolff@larrywolff.net> wrote:
>>>>> Is the roaming that you can turn on or off on the phone the data only
>>>>> roaming or is it cellular only roaming, or both?
>>>>
>>>> Depends on what phone you have. On iphone it's only data roaming.
>>>
>>> Even then you have to be careful as you might still get charged.
>>>
>>> I had data roaming switched off on my phone but  when I powered it on
>>> there must have been a few bytes that crept through and I got charged
>>> for a whole day's roaming. Better to turn off mobile data completely
>>> to be 100% sure.
>>>
>>> This was several years ago now. I think the mobile networks have more
>>> recently realised this can be a problem and allow you a small amount
>>> of data before they start charging.
>> The small amount of data would surely be the phone logging on? You
>> can never avoid that. I wonder also if there is any charge made for
>> the small quantity of data used during the handshake and power
>> negotions or does that come out of the handling elsewhere in the
>> data structure?
>>
> Better to disable data roaming on your account portal (if you can)
>
> I got stung in Canada for 6 quid, because about 100k 'leaked through'.
>
> I protested, and EE did refund the amount without any fuss.

Ofcom has announced new roaming alert rules.

From 1 October 2024, mobile providers need to notify customers when they
start roaming.

(Stay at home until then, just to be on the safe side.)

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/news-centre/2024/new-mobile-roaming-alerts-for-uk-holidaymakers

On 3/22/2024 8:08 AM, Richmond wrote:

> Ofcom has announced new roaming alert rules.

Does everyone concur that roaming is only for mobile data?
Or does roaming also apply to cellular calls?

Larry Wolff <larrywolff@larrywolff.net> wrote:
> On 3/22/2024 8:08 AM, Richmond wrote:
>
>> Ofcom has announced new roaming alert rules.
>
> Does everyone concur that roaming is only for mobile data?
> Or does roaming also apply to cellular calls?
>

What do you mean by roaming exactly? Technically, when you are on a network
other than your home network you are roaming. This applies equally to data,
voice and sms texts. What you get charged depends on your home network
operator and the contract you have with them.

For example, assuming you have no bundle that covers roaming, Vodafone UK
will charge you for originating voice calls whilst roaming. If you are in a
European country(exceptions apply) you won’t be charged for answering a
voice call. Go to a more far flung destination and you will be charged by
the minute for answering an inbound call.

On 22/03/2024 14:28, Tweed wrote:
> What do you mean by roaming exactly? Technically, when you are on a network
> other than your home network you are roaming. This applies equally to data,
> voice and sms texts. What you get charged depends on your home network
> operator and the contract you have with them.

My Samsung has a toggle for Data Roaming, to distinguish it from Roaming
in general. To disable voice roaming, I think you would need to
explicitly select the allowed network operators, under "Network operators".

Also, if you were in the USA (I think this is still true), you could be
roaming even just by being in a different city. I think the same is
true in China.

On 3/22/2024 3:58 PM, David Woolley wrote:

> On 22/03/2024 14:28, Tweed wrote:
>> What do you mean by roaming exactly? Technically, when you are on a network
>> other than your home network you are roaming. This applies equally to data,
>> voice and sms texts. What you get charged depends on your home network
>> operator and the contract you have with them.
>
> My Samsung has a toggle for Data Roaming, to distinguish it from Roaming
> in general. To disable voice roaming, I think you would need to
> explicitly select the allowed network operators, under "Network operators".

My Samsung also has a toggle for roaming, which they call Data Roaming,
and which was the reason for asking the question in the first place.

Settings > Connections > Mobile networks > Data roaming = on
> Also, if you were in the USA (I think this is still true), you could be
> roaming even just by being in a different city. I think the same is
> true in China.

In the same activity where data roaming is set, I see "Network operators".
It is set to "Select automatically = on" (which I didn't know existed).

The wording is "Let your phone choose the best mobile network for you.
If you turn this off, you can choose from a list of available networks."

When I turned it off, I got a dialog saying "Scan networks" and then it
showed the following "Available networks".
AT&T
T-Mobile
Verizon

When I clicked "Verizon" it said "Registering on Verizon".
But then it said "Unable to connect. Try later."

I'm not sure what I was doing. Can someone give me better background on why
that option is there and whether I should leave it the way it was (I get
free roaming in the UK, Europe and in the US according to my carrier but I
don't know if that's data roaming or cellular roaming - which is why I
ask).

Larry Wolff <larrywolff@larrywolff.net> wrote:
> On 3/22/2024 8:08 AM, Richmond wrote:
>
>> Ofcom has announced new roaming alert rules.
>
> Does everyone concur that roaming is only for mobile data?
> Or does roaming also apply to cellular calls?

Roaming is the act of joining a network outside of your home country. Data
plus calls.

The issue with data on modern phones is that so much is dependent on an
active data connection and you have no control over it other than turning
it off or on globally. That's why it's the main cause of concern for
people.

Calls/txts are completely within your control - you choose whether to make
or accept them - so less of an issue when roaming.

On Sat, 23 Mar 2024 10:28:31 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:

> The issue with data on modern phones is that so much is dependent on an
> active data connection and you have no control over it other than turning
> it off or on globally.

Which is why every good smartphone allows you to turn off data and/or Wi-Fi
for each & every single individual app you have on your phone at any time.

On 22/03/2024 15:41, Larry Wolff wrote:
> When I clicked "Verizon" it said "Registering on Verizon".
> But then it said "Unable to connect. Try later."
>
> I'm not sure what I was doing. Can someone give me better background on why
> that option is there and whether I should leave it the way it was (I get
> free roaming in the UK, Europe and in the US according to my carrier but I
> don't know if that's data roaming or cellular roaming - which is why I
> ask).

I think it is there for when you are roaming and you want to use a
specific network, for some reason. When you are in the UK, using a UK
SIM, normally only one of the displayed networks will accept your call,
so the option isn't useful. Even abroad, there may agreements with the
home network, that only certain networks can be used.

On Sat, 23 Mar 2024 10:28:31 -0000 (UTC), Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Larry Wolff <larrywolff@larrywolff.net> wrote:
>> On 3/22/2024 8:08 AM, Richmond wrote:
>>
>>> Ofcom has announced new roaming alert rules.
>>
>> Does everyone concur that roaming is only for mobile data?
>> Or does roaming also apply to cellular calls?
>
>Roaming is the act of joining a network outside of your home country. Data
>plus calls.
>
>The issue with data on modern phones is that so much is dependent on an
>active data connection and you have no control over it other than turning
>it off or on globally. That's why it's the main cause of concern for
>people.
>
>Calls/txts are completely within your control - you choose whether to make
>or accept them - so less of an issue when roaming.

That's true in most countries, but in the US incoming texts are often
chargeable, so it could be more of an issue when you're roaming
overseas.

I believe the recipient of voice calls also pay for them in the US,
which seems a very odd way of doing things.

On 23/03/2024 15:49, Chris in Makati wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Mar 2024 10:28:31 -0000 (UTC), Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
> wrote:

>> Calls/txts are completely within your control - you choose whether to make
>> or accept them - so less of an issue when roaming.
>
> That's true in most countries, but in the US incoming texts are often
> chargeable, so it could be more of an issue when you're roaming
> overseas.
>
> I believe the recipient of voice calls also pay for them in the US,
> which seems a very odd way of doing things.
>
I suppose that may be true of _some_ providers.

I have a US number on T-Mobile, and a UK one on BT - neither one charges
for incoming texts. In fact, T-Mobile US doesn't charge for incoming OR
outgoing texts when I use it in the UK.

Thinking back 20 or so years, I think a previous US provider (ATT) may
have charged for both in and out...

Bill Powell <bill@anarchists.org> wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Mar 2024 10:28:31 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
>
>> The issue with data on modern phones is that so much is dependent on an
>> active data connection and you have no control over it other than turning
>> it off or on globally.
>
> Which is why every good smartphone allows you to turn off data and/or Wi-Fi
> for each & every single individual app you have on your phone at any time.

Not specifically for roaming you can't which is the context.

Chris in Makati <mail@nospam.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Mar 2024 10:28:31 -0000 (UTC), Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Larry Wolff <larrywolff@larrywolff.net> wrote:
>>> On 3/22/2024 8:08 AM, Richmond wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ofcom has announced new roaming alert rules.
>>>
>>> Does everyone concur that roaming is only for mobile data?
>>> Or does roaming also apply to cellular calls?
>>
>> Roaming is the act of joining a network outside of your home country. Data
>> plus calls.
>>
>> The issue with data on modern phones is that so much is dependent on an
>> active data connection and you have no control over it other than turning
>> it off or on globally. That's why it's the main cause of concern for
>> people.
>>
>> Calls/txts are completely within your control - you choose whether to make
>> or accept them - so less of an issue when roaming.
>
> That's true in most countries, but in the US incoming texts are often
> chargeable, so it could be more of an issue when you're roaming
> overseas.
>
> I believe the recipient of voice calls also pay for them in the US,
> which seems a very odd way of doing things.

It's odd to us, but to them "caller pays" is very unfair.

On 23/03/2024 17:16, Chris wrote:
> It's odd to us, but to them "caller pays" is very unfair.

As I understand it, local calls used to be free, but trunk calls were
chargeable.

When mobile phones were introduced, they were done on a local basis,
with the the phone number not easily distinguishable from a local
landline number, so the caller was still charged the local landline
rate, namely $0. The person getting the benefit of mobile phone usage
had to pay the full cost of the mobile part, whether incoming or outgoing.

Making local calls free was a marketing decision. I think it relied on
the US being a large country with lots of well separated cities, so a
lot of business calls would be non-local.

On Sat, 23 Mar 2024 17:11:27 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:

>>> active data connection and you have no control over it other than turning
>>> it off or on globally.
>>
>> Which is why every good smartphone allows you to turn off data and/or Wi-Fi
>> for each & every single individual app you have on your phone at any time.
>
> Not specifically for roaming you can't which is the context.

My apologies. Yes, you are probably correct that roaming can probably only
be turned on or off for the phone, while cellular data and/or Wi-Fi can be
turned on per app.

My mistake.
Thanks for the correction.