I've never used Thunderbird or Betterbird as a newsreader, but I've
installed and tested both of them, concluding the old 40tude Dialog
(version 2.0.15.84, 4d2b38.exe 3.8 MB, dialog.exe dated 7 Feb 2005)
still works better than any other freeware newsreader (with scoring
features) which brings up the question: Does Thunderbird/Betterbird,
or any of those add-ons, make it possible to filter on cross-posted
newsgroup articles?

For comparison, the basic filter I've been using with 40tude Dialog
to demote all googlegroups & similar x-posted spam, looks like this:

>[*]
>-9999 Message-ID googlegroups.com
>-9999 References googlegroups.com
>!setcolor(olive;gray) Message-ID googlegroups.com
>!setcolor(gray;olive) References googlegroups.com
>!ignore Message-ID googlegroups.com
>-9998 Xpost %>2
>!setcolor(purple;maroon) Xpost %>2

Replacing "!ignore" with "!delete" simply deletes googlespam/xpost.
Thunderbird/Betterbird easily filters on Message-ID and References,
but what about Xpost filters? Many users of Thunderbird/Betterbird
would probably be interested in learning how to filter cross-posts.

On Tue, 5 Sep 2023 02:34:16 +0200 (CEST)
D <J@M> wrote:

>
> I've never used Thunderbird or Betterbird as a newsreader, but I've
> installed and tested both of them, concluding the old 40tude Dialog
> (version 2.0.15.84, 4d2b38.exe 3.8 MB, dialog.exe dated 7 Feb 2005)
> still works better than any other freeware newsreader (with scoring
> features) which brings up the question: Does Thunderbird/Betterbird,
> or any of those add-ons, make it possible to filter on cross-posted
> newsgroup articles?
>
> For comparison, the basic filter I've been using with 40tude Dialog
> to demote all googlegroups & similar x-posted spam, looks like this:
>
> >[*]
> >-9999 Message-ID googlegroups.com
> >-9999 References googlegroups.com
> >!setcolor(olive;gray) Message-ID googlegroups.com
> >!setcolor(gray;olive) References googlegroups.com
> >!ignore Message-ID googlegroups.com
> >-9998 Xpost %>2
> >!setcolor(purple;maroon) Xpost %>2
>
> Replacing "!ignore" with "!delete" simply deletes googlespam/xpost.
> Thunderbird/Betterbird easily filters on Message-ID and References,
> but what about Xpost filters? Many users of Thunderbird/Betterbird
> would probably be interested in learning how to filter cross-posts.

Thunderbird does not have a crosspost filter AFAIK but one can filter
crossposts on a per-group basis with a little trickery.

In the Thunderbird menu: Tools > Message Filters ...

To filter crossposts on a per-group basis, apply one of these logics in
the dropdown selectors:

Method 1 ----> Newsgroups | isn't | {newsgroupname} | {delete?}

Method 2 ----> Newsgroups | begins with | {newsgroupname}
+---> Newsgroups | ends with | {newsgroupname}

Method 2 requires using both in the same filter, since only a single
newsgroup in the header can satisfy both matches. This one is useful
for marking or copying good messages, then you can have a final rule
that hides everything unmarked.

One must add the custom headers in the settings and restart Thunderbird
to use them. I think you may need to add the Newsgroups: header
manually. If you customize headers in the filter settings and run
before closing and restarting it may not work.

Also if you create any custom header in the filter, you have to
highlight it before clicking OK for it to show up in the drop down
afterward.

--
SugarBug | https://sybershock.com | NNTP | Usenet | Forum
Fediverse | https://syfershock.com/users/syfershock
NightBulb | https://nightbulb.net | Flip the night switch.

If you want to access NNTP servers behind Tor onion addresses, be aware
that Thunderbird has somehow crippled this capability the last time I
tried it. I could get neither Thunderbird nor Betterbird to connect to
my hidden onion server. Seamonkey still works with onion addresses. I
just tested the latest release and it connects to my onion server.

--
SugarBug | https://sybershock.com | NNTP | Usenet | Forum
Fediverse | https://syfershock.com/users/syfershock
NightBulb | https://nightbulb.net | Flip the night switch.

Syber Shock <admin@sybershock.com> wrote:

> If you want to access NNTP servers behind Tor onion addresses, be aware
> that Thunderbird has somehow crippled this capability the last time I
> tried it. I could get neither Thunderbird nor Betterbird to connect to
> my hidden onion server.

Would an OmniMix proxy server in between solve that problem?

BTW, is there still no Thunderbird add-on, that manages custom headers
similar to Forté Agent's personas?

On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 23:24:11 -0500, Syber Shock <admin@sybershock.com> wrote:
>If you want to access NNTP servers behind Tor onion addresses, be aware
>that Thunderbird has somehow crippled this capability the last time I
>tried it. I could get neither Thunderbird nor Betterbird to connect to
>my hidden onion server. Seamonkey still works with onion addresses. I
>just tested the latest release and it connects to my onion server.

With Omnimix and its built-in Tor running (or else Tor Browser is running
in the background, in which case only Omnimix is running w/o built-in Tor),
this works fine with Thunderbird/Betterbird for connecting to nntp server
by setting "localhost"(127.0.0.1) in Tbird/Bbird "Server Settings", "port"
= "119", "Connection security" = "None", and check/enable "Always request
authentication when connecting to this server"; next, right-click account
in main account window and select "Subscribe...", this opens "News Server
Username and Password Required" window, enter "omnimix" for both username
and password, check "Use Password Manager to remember this password", and
click "OK"; click "Current Group List" tab for complete list of available
newsgroups (which you've set in Omnimix > News > Host, e.g. news.xyz.net);
use "Show items that contain" search feature to find desired newsgroup(s),
check/enable only those selected groups and click "OK"...this should work.

On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 23:09:34 -0500, Syber Shock <admin@sybershock.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 5 Sep 2023 02:34:16 +0200 (CEST)
>D <J@M> wrote:
>> I've never used Thunderbird or Betterbird as a newsreader, but I've
>> installed and tested both of them, concluding the old 40tude Dialog
>> (version 2.0.15.84, 4d2b38.exe 3.8 MB, dialog.exe dated 7 Feb 2005)
>> still works better than any other freeware newsreader (with scoring
>> features) which brings up the question: Does Thunderbird/Betterbird,
>> or any of those add-ons, make it possible to filter on cross-posted
>> newsgroup articles?
snip
>
>Thunderbird does not have a crosspost filter AFAIK but one can filter
>crossposts on a per-group basis with a little trickery.
>In the Thunderbird menu: Tools > Message Filters ...
>To filter crossposts on a per-group basis, apply one of these logics in
>the dropdown selectors:
>Method 1 ----> Newsgroups | isn't | {newsgroupname} | {delete?}
>Method 2 ----> Newsgroups | begins with | {newsgroupname}
> +---> Newsgroups | ends with | {newsgroupname}
>Method 2 requires using both in the same filter, since only a single
>newsgroup in the header can satisfy both matches. This one is useful
>for marking or copying good messages, then you can have a final rule
>that hides everything unmarked.
>One must add the custom headers in the settings and restart Thunderbird
>to use them. I think you may need to add the Newsgroups: header
>manually. If you customize headers in the filter settings and run
>before closing and restarting it may not work.
>Also if you create any custom header in the filter, you have to
>highlight it before clicking OK for it to show up in the drop down
>afterward.

that sounds promising . . . like boolean "AND NOT" . . . will test
your recommendations over the next several days; Thunderbird/Bbird
is popular, so many could benefit from a viable solution to xposts

On Tue, 5 Sep 2023 16:08:18 +0200 (CEST)
D <J@M> wrote:

> On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 23:24:11 -0500, Syber Shock <admin@sybershock.com>
> wrote:
> >If you want to access NNTP servers behind Tor onion addresses, be
> >aware that Thunderbird has somehow crippled this capability the last
> >time I tried it. I could get neither Thunderbird nor Betterbird to
> >connect to my hidden onion server. Seamonkey still works with onion
> >addresses. I just tested the latest release and it connects to my
> >onion server.
>
> With Omnimix and its built-in Tor running (or else Tor Browser is
> running in the background, in which case only Omnimix is running w/o
> built-in Tor), this works fine with Thunderbird/Betterbird for
> connecting to nntp server by setting "localhost"(127.0.0.1) in
> Tbird/Bbird "Server Settings", "port" = "119", "Connection security"
> = "None", and check/enable "Always request authentication when
> connecting to this server"; next, right-click account in main account
> window and select "Subscribe...", this opens "News Server Username
> and Password Required" window, enter "omnimix" for both username and
> password, check "Use Password Manager to remember this password", and
> click "OK"; click "Current Group List" tab for complete list of
> available newsgroups (which you've set in Omnimix > News > Host, e.g.
> news.xyz.net); use "Show items that contain" search feature to find
> desired newsgroup(s), check/enable only those selected groups and
> click "OK"...this should work.

Thunderbird will still connect to IANA domains over Tor. What I'm
saying is that it no longer connects to .onion addresses. At least the
last several times I tested it. It will still connect to normal domains
via Tor proxy, but not to .onion URLs.

I found this out because I run some .onion hidden services with
addresses like this:

ukrbkf6lmebn2wnovbuexq3zb2rsgjzjlcahnianbqgvybugk5umazsln.onion

And no way will Thunderbird connect to them any longer. The maintainer
changed something that hobbles lookup for .onion addresses over Tor. I
went into config editor and made necessary changes and it still won't
work. Because I don't like investigating bugs that never should have
happened in the first place I investigated no further for a solution. I
dropped Thunderbird and switched to Seamonkey because of this.

Unless Omnimix offers a local NNTP server then translates the network
resolution to .onion addresses transparently, you will still encounter
the same problem as I described it. You can test with the .onion NNTP
server offered in the nodes page by Retro Guy at https://novabbs.org.

--
SugarBug | https://sybershock.com | NNTP | Usenet | Forum
Fediverse | https://syfershock.com/users/syfershock
NightBulb | https://nightbulb.net | Flip the night switch.

On Tue, 5 Sep 2023 10:59:30 -0500, Syber Shock <admin@sybershock.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 5 Sep 2023 16:08:18 +0200 (CEST)
>D <J@M> wrote:
>> On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 23:24:11 -0500, Syber Shock <admin@sybershock.com>
>> wrote:
>> >If you want to access NNTP servers behind Tor onion addresses, be
>> >aware that Thunderbird has somehow crippled this capability the last
>> >time I tried it. I could get neither Thunderbird nor Betterbird to
>> >connect to my hidden onion server. Seamonkey still works with onion
>> >addresses. I just tested the latest release and it connects to my
>> >onion server.
>> With Omnimix and its built-in Tor running (or else Tor Browser is
>> running in the background, in which case only Omnimix is running w/o
>> built-in Tor), this works fine with Thunderbird/Betterbird for
>> connecting to nntp server by setting "localhost"(127.0.0.1) in
>> Tbird/Bbird "Server Settings", "port" = "119", "Connection security"
>> = "None", and check/enable "Always request authentication when
>> connecting to this server"; next, right-click account in main account
>> window and select "Subscribe...", this opens "News Server Username
>> and Password Required" window, enter "omnimix" for both username and
>> password, check "Use Password Manager to remember this password", and
>> click "OK"; click "Current Group List" tab for complete list of
>> available newsgroups (which you've set in Omnimix > News > Host, e.g.
>> news.xyz.net); use "Show items that contain" search feature to find
>> desired newsgroup(s), check/enable only those selected groups and
>> click "OK"...this should work.
>
>Thunderbird will still connect to IANA domains over Tor. What I'm
>saying is that it no longer connects to .onion addresses. At least the
>last several times I tested it. It will still connect to normal domains
>via Tor proxy, but not to .onion URLs.
>I found this out because I run some .onion hidden services with
>addresses like this:
>ukrbkf6lmebn2wnovbuexq3zb2rsgjzjlcahnianbqgvybugk5umazsln.onion
>And no way will Thunderbird connect to them any longer. The maintainer
>changed something that hobbles lookup for .onion addresses over Tor. I
>went into config editor and made necessary changes and it still won't
>work. Because I don't like investigating bugs that never should have
>happened in the first place I investigated no further for a solution. I
>dropped Thunderbird and switched to Seamonkey because of this.
>Unless Omnimix offers a local NNTP server then translates the network
>resolution to .onion addresses transparently, you will still encounter
>the same problem as I described it. You can test with the .onion NNTP
>server offered in the nodes page by Retro Guy at https://novabbs.org.

I don't know enough about how Tor works or about how using Omnimix might
be able to connect Tbird/Bbird directly via onion addresses; I have only
been using Omnimix w/Tor for using remailers to post to newsgroups, with
"SOCKS Version 5" set in the Omnimix "StateExt" tab for updating remailer
stats, and "News" tab for connecting and downloading from newsgroups host;
"Anon SMTP hosts" in "AnoMailS" tab show servers, e.g. mixrelay.mixmin.net
and smtp.tnetconsulting.net, with and without onion addresses; also, every
freeware newsreader I've tested with Omnimix connects successfuly via Tor;
but Thunderbird/Bbird is likely what the majority of newsgroup subscribers
are using nowadays, so every question about how it works and how to make it
work better deserves all the expert advice and step-by-step instructions on
optimizing this very popular email/newsreader program and using it securely.

On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 23:09:34 -0500, Syber Shock <admin@sybershock.com>
wrote:

>On Tue, 5 Sep 2023 02:34:16 +0200 (CEST)
>D <J@M> wrote:
>

One more asshole to filter out. Had his bleeptard buddy D filtered for
a long time.

On Tue, 5 Sep 2023 08:24:38 +0000, Anonymous <nobody@yamn.paranoici.org> wrote:
>Syber Shock <admin@sybershock.com> wrote:
>> If you want to access NNTP servers behind Tor onion addresses, be aware
>> that Thunderbird has somehow crippled this capability the last time I
>> tried it. I could get neither Thunderbird nor Betterbird to connect to
>> my hidden onion server.
>
>Would an OmniMix proxy server in between solve that problem?
>BTW, is there still no Thunderbird add-on, that manages custom headers
>similar to Forte Agent's personas?

this one seems to do . . . not much related to Xpost filtering:
https://addons.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/
https://addons.thunderbird.net/en-us/thunderbird/addon/filtaquilla/
>FiltaQuilla 3.7.2
>by R Kent James, Realraven (Axel Grude)
>Adds many new mail filter actions - launch a file, suppress notification,
>remove star or tag, mark replied or unread, copy as "read", append text
>to subject.
>Download Now
>https://addons.thunderbird.net/thunderbird/downloads/file/1022121/filtaquilla-3.7.2-tb.xpi?src=dp-btn-primary
>Permissions
>Works with Thunderbird 91.0 - 112.0
>View other versions
[end quote]

sybershock's suggestion "filter crossposts on a per-group basis"
<Message-ID: <83ca4b654fb8aba20aad45489c7324e7$1@sybershock.com>
might be one way to do this; every Tbird/Bbird user should test
this and see if it doesn't do the trick . . . I'll test it soon

Syber Shock <admin@sybershock.com> wrote:

> Unless Omnimix offers a local NNTP server then translates the network
> resolution to .onion addresses transparently, you will still encounter
> the same problem as I described it. You can test with the .onion NNTP
> server offered in the nodes page by Retro Guy at https://novabbs.org.

OmniMix offers a local NNTP proxy server. At the News tab enter your
hidden NNTP server's .onion address, port number and login credentials.
Then, when your news client connects with OM's NNTP port, OM itself
connects with that external hidden NNTP server and mediates
transparently all your client's interaction with it. That of course
even works, when you isolate your client completely from the Internet
and only allow it to make local connections.

With the Extended Username Syntax activated for OM's news server (XS
checkbox at the Server / News tab), your Thunderbird can even transmit
the server destination with the username (like
"om_password;ht=news.mixmin.net;pt=119;tl=r;to=4a" for the mixmin
server) during the OM login procedure.

<https://danner-net.de/omom/tutorremailpop3.htm>

As meanwhile .onion addresses are way too long to fit into the maximum
size of usernames accepted by client software, OM offers a shortcut list
for such terms at the Services / XUNS (extended username shortcut) tab.
By adding there an item named "mixmin_onion", data
"ht=gdyphuuuxv3v4o55osmruc2bypuewellgr5cgkoarks3xvwx4hlme5yd.onion;pt=119;tl=r;to=4a"
your news client can use the (extended) username
"om_password;mixmin_onion" to make OM and thereby your NNTP client
connect with mixmin's .onion newsserver.

On Tue, 05 Sep 2023 14:17:17 -0500
casey@invalid.com wrote:

> On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 23:09:34 -0500, Syber Shock <admin@sybershock.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On Tue, 5 Sep 2023 02:34:16 +0200 (CEST)
> >D <J@M> wrote:
> >
>
> One more Jedi knight to filter out. Had his Jedi buddy D filtered
> for a long time.

Forget yourself, you do, Herr Kyber. Strong with you is the dork side.

On Wed, 6 Sep 2023 02:47:11 +0200 (CEST)
Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> wrote:

> And you felt the need to announce it here because?

Because stalker he is. Follow the Jedi from group to group and social
network to social network, he does. Call the Jedi names for no reason,
he does. Provoke response, he tries.

Follow the Jedi to Mastodon, he does. File false complaints on
Mastodon, he does. Very unhinged he is. Psychiatrist, he needs. Help
him much, a rubber room will.

Strong with the dork side, he is.

On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 23:09:34 -0500, Syber Shock <admin@sybershock.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 5 Sep 2023 02:34:16 +0200 (CEST) D <J@M> wrote:
snip
>> >[*]
>> >-9999 Message-ID googlegroups.com
>> >-9999 References googlegroups.com
>> >!setcolor(olive;gray) Message-ID googlegroups.com
>> >!setcolor(gray;olive) References googlegroups.com
>> >!ignore Message-ID googlegroups.com
>> >-9998 Xpost %>2
>> >!setcolor(purple;maroon) Xpost %>2
>>
>> Replacing "!ignore" with "!delete" simply deletes googlespam/xpost.
>> Thunderbird/Betterbird easily filters on Message-ID and References,
>> but what about Xpost filters? Many users of Thunderbird/Betterbird
>> would probably be interested in learning how to filter cross-posts.
>
>Thunderbird does not have a crosspost filter AFAIK but one can filter
>crossposts on a per-group basis with a little trickery.
>In the Thunderbird menu: Tools > Message Filters ...
>To filter crossposts on a per-group basis, apply one of these logics in
>the dropdown selectors:
>Method 1 ----> Newsgroups | isn't | {newsgroupname} | {delete?}
>Method 2 ----> Newsgroups | begins with | {newsgroupname}
> +---> Newsgroups | ends with | {newsgroupname}
>Method 2 requires using both in the same filter, since only a single
>newsgroup in the header can satisfy both matches. This one is useful
>for marking or copying good messages, then you can have a final rule
>that hides everything unmarked.
>One must add the custom headers in the settings and restart Thunderbird
>to use them. I think you may need to add the Newsgroups: header
>manually. If you customize headers in the filter settings and run
>before closing and restarting it may not work.
>Also if you create any custom header in the filter, you have to
>highlight it before clicking OK for it to show up in the drop down
>afterward.

after running some tests on several different busy newsgroups that
have mostly cross-posted and some not cross-posted headers, results
were indiscriminate no matter what combinations I tried, i.e. each
"Newsgroups" filter combination affected either all or none of the
articles, changing their "priority", "star", "tag", "delete", etc.;
but filtering only on "Message-ID"/"References" headers works fine?
Compared to the simplicity of editing a simple, plain-text scoring
file, until Tbird/Bbird improves, old Dialog is much easier to use.

In article <fjvefip2m93257jskibspodpmn0jcvvgj1@4ax.com>
casey@invalid.com wrote:
>
> On Mon, 4 Sep 2023 23:09:34 -0500, Syber Shock <admin@sybershock.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On Tue, 5 Sep 2023 02:34:16 +0200 (CEST)
> >D <J@M> wrote:
> >
>
> One more asshole to filter out. Had his bleeptard buddy D filtered for
> a long time.

And you felt the need to announce it here because?