AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote

> On 11/18/2023 3:53 PM, Wally J wrote:
>> AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote
>
>> I like your FM radio. I was just saying in emergencies, HAM is nice
>> too.
>
> Agreed. Having both would be better in an emergency. They both have
> their uses. My receiver would be better at receiving the commercial
> bands (AM, FM, SW) where most local and national emergency news
> broadcasts would be found. And your 2 meter handheld ham transceiver
> (with a mountaintop repeater) would serve communications in your local
> area with other hams.

Living in the Santa Cruz mountains, we are pretty much used to the
electrical power going out monthly & fires burning down entire
mountainsides every few years, landslides blocking the roads during the
rainy season, and of course, a few earthquakes a year so we know the
inherent safety value of not only the ubiquitous FM radio in cellphones,
but also the ability for local area communications via the ham radio &
mountaintop repeaters (where we have fantastic LOS views to them).

That's my point about the FM radio in the cellphone, which is that it's
always better to have a flashlight than not to have the flashlight.

The Apple people, for example, not only pay twice as much to NOT have the
flashlight, but they have to pay Apple to get back the missing flashlight.

And they are told by Apple that paying for missing stuff that Apple took
away from them is the modern way to do things in the Apple ecosystem. :)

>> the power goes out two and three times a month in the dry months
>> (which, in California, is most of the year) but only about once a
>> month on the winter wet season
>
> Things are better here. It's been well over a year since the last power
> failure. Usually it's a car or storm taking down a power pole and they
> can usually reroute within a couple of hours or so.

You're lucky. We pay some of the highest electricity rates in the nation,
and we get nearly the most outages per year in the nation.

The only good thing about that is the CPUC forces PG&E to give us free
stuff related to the many power outages a year. For example, I got a
dual-fuel DuroMax XP5500EH generator from PG&E even though I already have a
built-in Generac that runs on propane.
<https://www.pge.com/en/outages-and-safety/outage-preparedness-and-support/general-outage-resources/generator-and-battery-rebate-program.html>

>> (which started today, by the way, as it's raining).
>
> Yep. Your storm came this way and got my driveway (slightly) wet...

Yeah, we don't normally get rain from about March or April to about now.
Sometimes we get rivers of rain. Sometimes not. It's fickle. Weather.

>> Of course every one of us (thousands upon thousands of homes in the
>> mountains) has a 240VAC generator or two, plus battery backups, etc.
>
> That would be wise considering the conditions you describe...

I don't know a single person that doesn't have at least one generator.
Unfortunately, some people use a suicide cord, which is just dangerous.

The funny thing is because we're in the highest fire danger area of the
country, PG&E will give us a lot of free stuff for the power outages.

If you follow the rules, you get a lot of free stuff like...
a. A free portable power generator
b. A free backup power transfer meter to connect it to
c. A free portable emergency 2KW battery with 120VAC output
d. A free 4-liter 120VAC/12VDC refrigerator

You have to follow the rules though. For example, PG&E insists our portable
generators have a NEMA L1430R Locking Outlet which they use to connect to
their proprietary backup transfer meters, which are really neat devices.

I don't know if anywhere else in the country has these new devices but us.
<https://energycentral.com/news/first-its-kind-technology-allows-pge-customers-safely-and-easily-connect-backup-power-their>
>> We even have special meters from PG&E that we can hook our generators
>> up _directly_ to the meter when the power goes out. Fancy that from
>> PG&E!
>
> Neat. Here some folks have solar panels with storage batteries so they
> can get a few extra hours from the batteries in a power failure.

BTW, PG&E applied for a patent and says they designed these switches.
<https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20220217005846/en/First-of-its-Kind-Technology-Allows-PGE-Customers-to-Safely-and-Easily-Connect-Backup-Power-to-Their-Homes>

It's a really neat device they give us to connect to the generator.
<https://solarbuildermag.com/policy/pge-built-a-transfer-device-for-homes-in-high-fire-threat-districts-to-connect-backup-power-sources/>

But you can only get it from PG&E for free if you're in the worst fire
danger area and if they cut off your power due to frequent EPSS trips.
<https://www.power-grid.com/smart-grid/pge-develops-backup-generator-meter-for-fire-threat-prone-customers/>

>> _everyone_ in the neighborhood has them [BAOFENG UV-5R]. That's many
>> hundreds of people who all have the same HAM radio as I do. What
>> happened is one HAM enthusiast aficionado long ago sent out a
>> suggestion we all chip in twenty-five bucks each and that would cover
>> the radio and the testing
>
> Back in the day (got my first ticket in 1956) you had to pass a written
> AND a Morse Code test. Guess not anymore...

No Morse Code anymore. But you do have to pass the written test.
The way I passed the test was I put on my iPad a zillion free HAM radio
tests, which contained the EXACT QUESTIONS to the exams (so it was easy).

You can see my Ham Radio folder on my iPad in this old graphic in fact.
<https://i.postimg.cc/LXzB3Lc0/appleid01.jpg> Apple _forces_ a log in!

> Another back in the day story: Some of our original mountaintop
> repeaters had autopatches. There was a landline connection at the
> repeater site. You could actually call someone using your 2 meter
> handheld. This was pre-cellphone days so very handy. Course it wasn't
> very private since all of Phoenix hamdom could listen in...

I know what you mean, but I don't know if the repeater we mostly use has
that, but we have gotten people from extremely far away on the radio.

I don't play with it all that much. Mostly I bring it on my backcountry
hikes, where it's my emergency backup in case I break a leg or get bitten
by a rattler or whatever.

An FM radio isn't needed on hikes as much as a HAM radio would be; but if
there was an emergency, I pity all those Apple iPhone owners without FM
radios since they have to buy an FM radio just to get back what was
previously already there for free in the first place (which Apple removed
to protect their streaming revenue). They have to keep it plugged in or
with batteries. And they have to find it in an emergency when their phone
is already in their hands. Apple hoodwinked them. And they ate it all up.

>> - which was why those two radios plus two tests cost me only fifty
>> bucks (one for my wife and the other for me).
>
> Things are apparently a lot cheaper now, though I did used to get some
> pretty good deals at hamfests.

I didn't do any of the buying but the guy who bought a thousand of them (or
whatever the number was) got some kind of bulk deal so I'm happy with this.
<https://i.postimg.cc/1zvGYNZt/hamradio.jpg> $25 bucks, including the test

>> We have sequential federal Id's (ain't that sweet) where I don't
>> remember them so since they have to be used, I write them on the back
>> of the radio.
>
> Do you mean licenses with call letters? IIRC California was in the 6th
> call district. AZ is in the 7th and my call starts with W7...

Oh my. I am glad I told you I was ignorant as I really forgot everything.
All I know is I need to mention my call sign every five minutes or so.
I don't remember it. So I taped it to the back of the radio.

Lemme look for you... OK... my call sign is of the KMxxxx type, but some of
my neighbors are ABxxx (notice only 5 characters for them but 6 for mine).

As I said, I stuff the HAM radio into my pack when I do backcountry hiking,
just in case, but I really never need to use it but, of course, if I don't
put it in my pack, that's when I'll need to use it (Murphy's Law).
>> Are those BAOFENG UV-5R radios any good?
>
> Specs look Ok. If they're reliable as is your repeater then they should
> work just fine.
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baofeng_UV-5R>

Thanks for checking on that as I wasn't sure how to respond to your first
suggestion that the radio would not be powerful enough. It works for me.

I talked the 3,500 gallon propane truck into giving me more than 85% as I
normally run the built-in generator which runs off of propane.

But I have a Nash Fuel hose so that I can fill up the twenty pound propane
tanks from my 1,000 gallon residential propane tank and then I have the
Flame King adaptor to fill my one-pound propane tanks from the twenty
pounder (which is all very convenient). I refuel my cars at home too. :)
<https://www.costco.com/flame-king-refillable-1lb.-empty-propane-cylinder-tank-16.4-oz%2C-2-pack---with-refill-kit.product.100679019.html>

On 11/18/23 23:49, Wally J wrote:
> AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote
>
>> On 11/18/2023 3:53 PM, Wally J wrote:
>>> AJL <noemail@none.com> wrote
>>
>>> I like your FM radio. I was just saying in emergencies, HAM is nice
>>> too.
>>
>> Agreed. Having both would be better in an emergency. They both have
>> their uses. My receiver would be better at receiving the commercial
>> bands (AM, FM, SW) where most local and national emergency news
>> broadcasts would be found. And your 2 meter handheld ham transceiver
>> (with a mountaintop repeater) would serve communications in your local
>> area with other hams.
>
> Living in the Santa Cruz mountains, we are pretty much used to the
> electrical power going out monthly & fires burning down entire
> mountainsides every few years, landslides blocking the roads during the
> rainy season, and of course, a few earthquakes a year so we know the
> inherent safety value of not only the ubiquitous FM radio in cellphones,
> but also the ability for local area communications via the ham radio &
> mountaintop repeaters (where we have fantastic LOS views to them).
>
> That's my point about the FM radio in the cellphone, which is that it's
> always better to have a flashlight than not to have the flashlight.
>
> The Apple people, for example, not only pay twice as much to NOT have the
> flashlight, but they have to pay Apple to get back the missing flashlight.
>
> And they are told by Apple that paying for missing stuff that Apple took
> away from them is the modern way to do things in the Apple ecosystem. :)
>
>>> the power goes out two and three times a month in the dry months
>>> (which, in California, is most of the year) but only about once a
>>> month on the winter wet season
>>
>> Things are better here. It's been well over a year since the last power
>> failure. Usually it's a car or storm taking down a power pole and they
>> can usually reroute within a couple of hours or so.
>
> You're lucky. We pay some of the highest electricity rates in the nation,
> and we get nearly the most outages per year in the nation.
>
> The only good thing about that is the CPUC forces PG&E to give us free
> stuff related to the many power outages a year. For example, I got a
> dual-fuel DuroMax XP5500EH generator from PG&E even though I already have a
> built-in Generac that runs on propane.
> <https://www.pge.com/en/outages-and-safety/outage-preparedness-and-support/general-outage-resources/generator-and-battery-rebate-program.html>
>
>>> (which started today, by the way, as it's raining).
>>
>> Yep. Your storm came this way and got my driveway (slightly) wet...
>
> Yeah, we don't normally get rain from about March or April to about now.
> Sometimes we get rivers of rain. Sometimes not. It's fickle. Weather.
>
>>> Of course every one of us (thousands upon thousands of homes in the
>>> mountains) has a 240VAC generator or two, plus battery backups, etc.
>>
>> That would be wise considering the conditions you describe...
>
> I don't know a single person that doesn't have at least one generator.
> Unfortunately, some people use a suicide cord, which is just dangerous.
>
> The funny thing is because we're in the highest fire danger area of the
> country, PG&E will give us a lot of free stuff for the power outages.
>
> If you follow the rules, you get a lot of free stuff like...
> a. A free portable power generator
> b. A free backup power transfer meter to connect it to
> c. A free portable emergency 2KW battery with 120VAC output
> d. A free 4-liter 120VAC/12VDC refrigerator
>
> You have to follow the rules though. For example, PG&E insists our portable
> generators have a NEMA L1430R Locking Outlet which they use to connect to
> their proprietary backup transfer meters, which are really neat devices.
>
> I don't know if anywhere else in the country has these new devices but us.
> <https://energycentral.com/news/first-its-kind-technology-allows-pge-customers-safely-and-easily-connect-backup-power-their>

Hey, at least you get compensated for the bad weather stuff.

>>> We even have special meters from PG&E that we can hook our generators
>>> up _directly_ to the meter when the power goes out. Fancy that from
>>> PG&E!
>>
>> Neat. Here some folks have solar panels with storage batteries so they
>> can get a few extra hours from the batteries in a power failure.
>
> BTW, PG&E applied for a patent and says they designed these switches.
> <https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20220217005846/en/First-of-its-Kind-Technology-Allows-PGE-Customers-to-Safely-and-Easily-Connect-Backup-Power-to-Their-Homes>
>
> It's a really neat device they give us to connect to the generator.
> <https://solarbuildermag.com/policy/pge-built-a-transfer-device-for-homes-in-high-fire-threat-districts-to-connect-backup-power-sources/>
>
> But you can only get it from PG&E for free if you're in the worst fire
> danger area and if they cut off your power due to frequent EPSS trips.
> <https://www.power-grid.com/smart-grid/pge-develops-backup-generator-meter-for-fire-threat-prone-customers/>
>
>>> _everyone_ in the neighborhood has them [BAOFENG UV-5R]. That's many
>>> hundreds of people who all have the same HAM radio as I do. What
>>> happened is one HAM enthusiast aficionado long ago sent out a
>>> suggestion we all chip in twenty-five bucks each and that would cover
>>> the radio and the testing
>>
>> Back in the day (got my first ticket in 1956) you had to pass a written
>> AND a Morse Code test. Guess not anymore...

I think they removed that requirement in 2010?

> No Morse Code anymore. But you do have to pass the written test.
> The way I passed the test was I put on my iPad a zillion free HAM radio
> tests, which contained the EXACT QUESTIONS to the exams (so it was easy).
>
> You can see my Ham Radio folder on my iPad in this old graphic in fact.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/LXzB3Lc0/appleid01.jpg> Apple _forces_ a log in!
>
>> Another back in the day story: Some of our original mountaintop
>> repeaters had autopatches. There was a landline connection at the
>> repeater site. You could actually call someone using your 2 meter
>> handheld. This was pre-cellphone days so very handy. Course it wasn't
>> very private since all of Phoenix hamdom could listen in...
>
> I know what you mean, but I don't know if the repeater we mostly use has
> that, but we have gotten people from extremely far away on the radio.
>
> I don't play with it all that much. Mostly I bring it on my backcountry
> hikes, where it's my emergency backup in case I break a leg or get bitten
> by a rattler or whatever.
>
> An FM radio isn't needed on hikes as much as a HAM radio would be; but if
> there was an emergency, I pity all those Apple iPhone owners without FM
> radios since they have to buy an FM radio just to get back what was
> previously already there for free in the first place (which Apple removed
> to protect their streaming revenue). They have to keep it plugged in or
> with batteries. And they have to find it in an emergency when their phone
> is already in their hands. Apple hoodwinked them. And they ate it all up.
>
>>> - which was why those two radios plus two tests cost me only fifty
>>> bucks (one for my wife and the other for me).
>>
>> Things are apparently a lot cheaper now, though I did used to get some
>> pretty good deals at hamfests.
>
> I didn't do any of the buying but the guy who bought a thousand of them (or
> whatever the number was) got some kind of bulk deal so I'm happy with this.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/1zvGYNZt/hamradio.jpg> $25 bucks, including the test
>
>>> We have sequential federal Id's (ain't that sweet) where I don't
>>> remember them so since they have to be used, I write them on the back
>>> of the radio.
>>
>> Do you mean licenses with call letters? IIRC California was in the 6th
>> call district. AZ is in the 7th and my call starts with W7...
>
> Oh my. I am glad I told you I was ignorant as I really forgot everything.
> All I know is I need to mention my call sign every five minutes or so.
> I don't remember it. So I taped it to the back of the radio.

It's 10 minutes, I think.

> Lemme look for you... OK... my call sign is of the KMxxxx type, but some of
> my neighbors are ABxxx (notice only 5 characters for them but 6 for mine).
>
> As I said, I stuff the HAM radio into my pack when I do backcountry hiking,
> just in case, but I really never need to use it but, of course, if I don't
> put it in my pack, that's when I'll need to use it (Murphy's Law).
>
>>> Are those BAOFENG UV-5R radios any good?
>>
>> Specs look Ok. If they're reliable as is your repeater then they should
>> work just fine.
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baofeng_UV-5R>
>
> Thanks for checking on that as I wasn't sure how to respond to your first
> suggestion that the radio would not be powerful enough. It works for me.
>
> I talked the 3,500 gallon propane truck into giving me more than 85% as I
> normally run the built-in generator which runs off of propane.
>
> But I have a Nash Fuel hose so that I can fill up the twenty pound propane
> tanks from my 1,000 gallon residential propane tank and then I have the
> Flame King adaptor to fill my one-pound propane tanks from the twenty
> pounder (which is all very convenient). I refuel my cars at home too. :)
> <https://www.costco.com/flame-king-refillable-1lb.-empty-propane-cylinder-tank-16.4-oz%2C-2-pack---with-refill-kit.product.100679019.html>
>
> You learn to be self sufficient in the mountains, where, for example I even
> refill my five pound carbon dioxide tank myself, with dry ice, and then I
> use a high-pressure stainless steel hose to refill sodastream canisters.
>
> As another example, all of us have either a T-Mobile, AT&T or Verizon
> femtocell (connected to the router) or a two-piece cellular repeater (I
> have both) so that our signal strength is perfect inside the house even
> though we're miles from the nearest cell towers.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/XJChDCPr/spare-access-points.jpg> cellular repeater
>
> We are so far in the boonies, that we don't have the option of cable, so we
> get all our Internet over the air from a nearby mountaintop too. Which
> makes us pretty self sufficient in an emergency...
> <https://i.postimg.cc/Gh22Sb2N/desktop.jpg> Desktop in shed with MikroTik
>
> Which, to come full circle, is why we know to feel sorry for the hapless
> iPhone users because having an FM radio on the phone is always better than
> not having it (despite Apple convincing them otherwise, somehow).
>
> If you want photos of anything I've said above, just ask. I was gonna snap
> some and upload them as I am a stickler for facts - but it's night and
> they'll suck without good light but in the morning let me know if there's
> any emergency safety item you're interesting in more information on,
> as I have everything that I said above - most for emergency purposes.
>
> Including the FM radio, aux jack & sd card in my free Galaxy A32-5G phone.

On 2023-11-19 09:37, candycanearter07 wrote:

<blather snipped>

> Can you send pics?

Despite the blather above, any serious prepper has everything planned
out and set up to not depend smartphones or other such devices. The
batteries do not last long enough.

In an emergency a radio receiver should cover several bands (not just
FM) and should be hand crankable. There are various cheap and not cheap
ones on the usual sites.

To flip it over - from the Troll's POV he should be shocked and angered
that Android phones do not include AM - as much emergency broadcasting
goes AM - in large part due to favourable nighttime propagation. (Why
some AM stations are legally forced to shutdown at night and others are
allowed to operate but possibly at reduced output power at night
(Class-A aka "Clear channel" in North America)).

--
“Markets can remain irrational longer than your can remain solvent.”
- John Maynard Keynes.