Archive-name: usenet/spam-faq
Posting-Frequency: weekly
Last-modified: 1998/11/10
URL: http://wiki.killfile.org/projects/usenet/faqs/spam/
Maintainer: tskirvin@killfile.org (Tim Skirvin)
Original-Author: clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca (Chris Lewis)

Current Spam thresholds and guidelines.

This article is intended to describe the current consensus spam thresholds
and ensure that the definitions of these terms are available and consistent.
It is believed that most, if not all, spam cancellers use these terms and
definitions in their work; however, many other people use the terms
inappropriately, which leads to confusion in discussions. This is an
informal FAQ aimed at clarity and understanding, not anal-retentive
correctness.

Excessive Multi-Posting (EMP) has the same meaning as the term "spam"
usually carries, but it is more accurate and self-explanatory. EMP means,
essentially, "too many separate copies of a substantively identical
article."

"Substantively identical" means that the material in each article is
sufficiently similar to construe the same message. The signature is
included in the determination. These are examples of substantively
identical articles:
- byte-for-byte identical messages
- otherwise identical postings minimally customized for
each group it appears in.
- advertising the same service.
- articles that consist solely of the same signature
- articles which consist of inclusions of other user's
postings, but are otherwise identical.

Cross-posting means that a single message appears in more than one group.
Most newsreaders allow you to specify more than one group in a posting.

Excessive Crossposting (ECP) refers to where a "lot" of postings to more
than one group each have been made.

Some people think cross-posting is "bad". In and of itself, it's good
behaviour - it allows you to reach more groups with less impact on the net.
Especially if you set the Followup-to: header to one group. It is "bad"
when it's done to attack newsgroups or provoke flamewars (like cross-posting
how to cook a cat between alt.tasteless and rec.pet.cats), but this is beyond
the scope of this FAQ.

This author considers the term "spam" to mean excessive postings of
EMP and/or ECP variety. That is, "spam", is a generic term for several
different things. The term was originally supposed to mean EMPs only, but
most people use "spam" to mean "any excessive posting".

A spam, EMP, or ECP therefore refers to a posting that has been posted to
many places. There is a consensus that there is a point at which it is
abuse, and is subject to advisory cancellation.

A formula has been invented by Seth Breidbart which attempts to
quantify the degree of "badness" of a spam (whether EMP or ECP) as a
single number. The Breidbart Index (BI) is defined as the sum of the
square roots of n (n is the number of newsgroups each copy was posted
to).

Example: If two copies of a posting are made, one to 9 groups, and one
to 16, the BI index is sqrt(9)+sqrt(16) = 3+4 = 7.

The BI2 (Breidbart Index, version 2) is an experimental metric, which
may eventually replace the BI. It is calculated by computing the sum
of the square roots of n, plus the sum of n, and dividing by two. Eg:
one posting to 9, and one to 16 is

(sqrt(9) + sqrt(16) + 9 + 16) / 2
( 3 + 4 + 9 + 16 ) / 2 = 32 / 2 = 16

The BI2 is more "aggressive" than the BI, intended to cut off the "higher
end". BI allows about 125 newsgroups maximum. BI2 allows a maximum of 35.

A slightly less aggressive index is the SBI (Skirvin-Breidbart Index); it
is calculated much the same as the BI2, but sums the number of groups in
the Followup-to: header (if available), rather than the newsgroups. Eg:
one posting to 9 groups, and one to 16 with followups set to 4 is

(sqrt(9) + sqrt(16) + 9 + 4) / 2
( 3 + 4 + 9 + 4 ) / 2 = 20 / 2 = 10

Except in nl.*, where the SBI is followed, the BI2 and SBI are not used to
determine whether a spam is cancellable.

The thresholds for spam cancels are based _only_ on one or more of the
following measures:

1) The BI is 20 or greater over a 45 day period.
2) is a continuation of a previous EMP/ECP, within a 45 day
sliding window. That is: if the articles posted within the
past 45 days exceeds a BI threshold of 20, it gets removed,
unless the originator has made a clear and obvious effort to
cease spamming (which includes an undertaking to do so
posted in news.admin.net-abuse.usenet). This includes "make
money fast" schemes which passed the EMP/ECP thresholds
several years ago. This author recommends one posting
cross-posted to no more than 10 groups, no more often than
once every two weeks (a BI of 3).

A single posting cannot be cancellable - to reach a BI of 20, it would
have to be cross-posted to 400 groups. This isn't possible due to
limitations in Usenet software.

These thresholds nominally apply to all hierarchies - not just the Big-8
and alt.*. Many hierarchies have more restrictive rules, which are decided
upon and enforced by their users and administrators; they may also opt out
of the cancellations, at the discretion of the same users and admins.

These cancels have nothing whatsoever to do with the contents of the
message. It doesn't matter if it's an advertisement, it doesn't matter if
it's abusive, it doesn't matter whether it's on-topic in the groups it was
posted in, it doesn't matter whether the posting is for a "good cause" or
not - spam is cancelled regardless, based on _how many times_ it was said
and not _what_ was said.

Administrators wishing to ignore spam cancels can "alias out" the site
"cyberspam", and the cancels will not affect your system. This is normally
done at your feed site, but patches are available for INN to allow you to
reject spam cancels on your own system. Ask in news.admin.net-abuse.usenet
if you need this patch.

Further literature on posting etiquette and related information:

The newsgroup news.announce.newusers
<URL:news:news.announce.newusers>
"What is Usenet", by Salzenberg, Spafford and Moraes
<URL:ftp://ftp.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/what-is/part1>

"What is Usenet? A second opinion.", by Vielmetti
<URL:ftp://ftp.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/what-is/part2>

"FAQ: Advertising on Usenet: How To Do It, How Not To Do It", by Furr
<URL:ftp://ftp.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/advertising/how-to/part1>

"A Primer on How to Work With the Usenet Community", by Von Rospach, et al
<URL:ftp://ftp.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/primer/part1>

"Rules for posting to Usenet", by Horton, Spafford & Moraes.
<URL:ftp://ftp.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/posting-rules/part1>

"Emily Postnews Answers Your Questions on Netiquette", by Templeton et al
<URL:ftp://ftp.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/emily-postnews/part1>

Numerous books and publications on Usenet, such as O'Reilly's "Stopping
Spam" (Schwartz and Garfinkel), the "Whole Internet Guide and Catalog"
(Krol), "Usenet Handbook" (Harrison), etc.

"Cancel Messages: Frequently Asked Questions", by Skirvin
<URL:http://wiki.killfile.org/projects/usenet/faqs/cancel/>

RFC 1855 - Netiquette Guidelines
<URL:http://rfc.net/rfc1855.html>

The above FAQs are also mirrored at various sites, including as ftp.sunet.se,
mirror.aol.com, ftp.uu.net, ftp.uni-paderborn.de, nctuccca.edu.tw,
hwarang.postech.ac.kr, ftp.hk.super.net etc.

A mailing list has been set up to assist those wishing to post commercial
advertisements on Usenet in a responsible fashion. Email your questions to
commerce@acpub.duke.edu.

In article <spam-faq.20230326000201$a337@news.killfile.org>,
Tim Skirvin <tskirvin@killfile.org> wrote:
>Archive-name: usenet/spam-faq
>Posting-Frequency: weekly
>Last-modified: 1998/11/10
>URL: http://wiki.killfile.org/projects/usenet/faqs/spam/
>Maintainer: tskirvin@killfile.org (Tim Skirvin)
>Original-Author: clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca (Chris Lewis)
>
> Current Spam thresholds and guidelines.
>
>This article is intended to describe the current consensus spam thresholds
>and ensure that the definitions of these terms are available and consistent.
>It is believed that most, if not all, spam cancellers use these terms and
>definitions in their work; however, many other people use the terms
>inappropriately, which leads to confusion in discussions. This is an
>informal FAQ aimed at clarity and understanding, not anal-retentive
>correctness.
>
>Excessive Multi-Posting (EMP) has the same meaning as the term "spam"
>usually carries, but it is more accurate and self-explanatory. EMP means,
>essentially, "too many separate copies of a substantively identical
>article."
>
>"Substantively identical" means that the material in each article is
>sufficiently similar to construe the same message. The signature is
>included in the determination. These are examples of substantively
>identical articles:
>
> - byte-for-byte identical messages
> - otherwise identical postings minimally customized for
> each group it appears in.
> - advertising the same service.
> - articles that consist solely of the same signature
> - articles which consist of inclusions of other user's
> postings, but are otherwise identical.
>
>Cross-posting means that a single message appears in more than one group.
>Most newsreaders allow you to specify more than one group in a posting.
>
>Excessive Crossposting (ECP) refers to where a "lot" of postings to more
>than one group each have been made.
>
>Some people think cross-posting is "bad". In and of itself, it's good
>behaviour - it allows you to reach more groups with less impact on the net.
>Especially if you set the Followup-to: header to one group. It is "bad"
>when it's done to attack newsgroups or provoke flamewars (like cross-posting
>how to cook a cat between alt.tasteless and rec.pet.cats), but this is beyond
>the scope of this FAQ.
>
>This author considers the term "spam" to mean excessive postings of
>EMP and/or ECP variety. That is, "spam", is a generic term for several
>different things. The term was originally supposed to mean EMPs only, but
>most people use "spam" to mean "any excessive posting".
>
>A spam, EMP, or ECP therefore refers to a posting that has been posted to
>many places. There is a consensus that there is a point at which it is
>abuse, and is subject to advisory cancellation.
>
>A formula has been invented by Seth Breidbart which attempts to
>quantify the degree of "badness" of a spam (whether EMP or ECP) as a
>single number. The Breidbart Index (BI) is defined as the sum of the
>square roots of n (n is the number of newsgroups each copy was posted
>to).
>
>Example: If two copies of a posting are made, one to 9 groups, and one
>to 16, the BI index is sqrt(9)+sqrt(16) = 3+4 = 7.
>
>The BI2 (Breidbart Index, version 2) is an experimental metric, which
>may eventually replace the BI. It is calculated by computing the sum
>of the square roots of n, plus the sum of n, and dividing by two. Eg:
>one posting to 9, and one to 16 is
>
> (sqrt(9) + sqrt(16) + 9 + 16) / 2
> ( 3 + 4 + 9 + 16 ) / 2 = 32 / 2 = 16
>
>The BI2 is more "aggressive" than the BI, intended to cut off the "higher
>end". BI allows about 125 newsgroups maximum. BI2 allows a maximum of 35.
>
>A slightly less aggressive index is the SBI (Skirvin-Breidbart Index); it
>is calculated much the same as the BI2, but sums the number of groups in
>the Followup-to: header (if available), rather than the newsgroups. Eg:
>one posting to 9 groups, and one to 16 with followups set to 4 is
>
> (sqrt(9) + sqrt(16) + 9 + 4) / 2
> ( 3 + 4 + 9 + 4 ) / 2 = 20 / 2 = 10
>
>Except in nl.*, where the SBI is followed, the BI2 and SBI are not used to
>determine whether a spam is cancellable.
>
>The thresholds for spam cancels are based _only_ on one or more of the
>following measures:
>
> 1) The BI is 20 or greater over a 45 day period.
> 2) is a continuation of a previous EMP/ECP, within a 45 day
> sliding window. That is: if the articles posted within the
> past 45 days exceeds a BI threshold of 20, it gets removed,
> unless the originator has made a clear and obvious effort to
> cease spamming (which includes an undertaking to do so
> posted in news.admin.net-abuse.usenet). This includes "make
> money fast" schemes which passed the EMP/ECP thresholds
> several years ago. This author recommends one posting
> cross-posted to no more than 10 groups, no more often than
> once every two weeks (a BI of 3).
>
>A single posting cannot be cancellable - to reach a BI of 20, it would
>have to be cross-posted to 400 groups. This isn't possible due to
>limitations in Usenet software.
>
>These thresholds nominally apply to all hierarchies - not just the Big-8
>and alt.*. Many hierarchies have more restrictive rules, which are decided
>upon and enforced by their users and administrators; they may also opt out
>of the cancellations, at the discretion of the same users and admins.
>
>These cancels have nothing whatsoever to do with the contents of the
>message. It doesn't matter if it's an advertisement, it doesn't matter if
>it's abusive, it doesn't matter whether it's on-topic in the groups it was
>posted in, it doesn't matter whether the posting is for a "good cause" or
>not - spam is cancelled regardless, based on _how many times_ it was said
>and not _what_ was said.
>
>Administrators wishing to ignore spam cancels can "alias out" the site
>"cyberspam", and the cancels will not affect your system. This is normally
>done at your feed site, but patches are available for INN to allow you to
>reject spam cancels on your own system. Ask in news.admin.net-abuse.usenet
>if you need this patch.
>
>Further literature on posting etiquette and related information:
>
>The newsgroup news.announce.newusers
><URL:news:news.announce.newusers>
>
>"What is Usenet", by Salzenberg, Spafford and Moraes
><URL:ftp://ftp.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/what-is/part1>
>
>"What is Usenet? A second opinion.", by Vielmetti
><URL:ftp://ftp.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/what-is/part2>
>
>"FAQ: Advertising on Usenet: How To Do It, How Not To Do It", by Furr
><URL:ftp://ftp.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/advertising/how-to/part1>
>
>"A Primer on How to Work With the Usenet Community", by Von Rospach, et al
><URL:ftp://ftp.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/primer/part1>
>
>"Rules for posting to Usenet", by Horton, Spafford & Moraes.
><URL:ftp://ftp.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/posting-rules/part1>
>
>"Emily Postnews Answers Your Questions on Netiquette", by Templeton et al
><URL:ftp://ftp.faqs.org/faqs/usenet/emily-postnews/part1>
>
>Numerous books and publications on Usenet, such as O'Reilly's "Stopping
>Spam" (Schwartz and Garfinkel), the "Whole Internet Guide and Catalog"
>(Krol), "Usenet Handbook" (Harrison), etc.
>
>"Cancel Messages: Frequently Asked Questions", by Skirvin
><URL:http://wiki.killfile.org/projects/usenet/faqs/cancel/>
>
>RFC 1855 - Netiquette Guidelines
><URL:http://rfc.net/rfc1855.html>
>
>The above FAQs are also mirrored at various sites, including as ftp.sunet.se,
>mirror.aol.com, ftp.uu.net, ftp.uni-paderborn.de, nctuccca.edu.tw,
>hwarang.postech.ac.kr, ftp.hk.super.net etc.
>
>A mailing list has been set up to assist those wishing to post commercial
>advertisements on Usenet in a responsible fashion. Email your questions to
>commerce@acpub.duke.edu.

anything Google can use to get rid of its spamtrollers?
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism https://www.empire.kred/ROOTNK?t=94a1f39b
As size grows, mobility goes. -unknown Beware https://mindspring.com

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[ x-posted to rec.arts.drwho ]
[ followup set to news.admin.net-abuse.usenet ]

On Sunday, 26 March 2023 00:13 -0000,
in article <tvo2mu$i2o$34@gallifrey.nk.ca>,
Dave "The Doctor" Yadallee <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:

> In article <spam-faq.20230326000201$a337@news.killfile.org>,
> Tim Skirvin <tskirvin@killfile.org> wrote:

>> Archive-name: usenet/spam-faq
>> Posting-Frequency: weekly
>> Last-modified: 1998/11/10
>> URL: http://wiki.killfile.org/projects/usenet/faqs/spam/
>> Maintainer: tskirvin@killfile.org (Tim Skirvin)
>> Original-Author: clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca (Chris Lewis)

>> Current Spam thresholds and guidelines.

[ snip weekly posting of the spam FAQ ]

> anything Google can use to get rid of its spamtrollers?

Spamtrollers exist only in your mind, spammer. Spammers post the same
thing again and again, ie. EMP. Trolls look for a response: good, bad
or indifferent. You, Dave Yadallee, are the fish that seems incapable
of learning there is a hook hidden in the bait being trailed, in the
waters of you native habitat.

Trolling is what your buddy Tim does quite successfully, in
rec.arts.drwho, as each of his posts provokes a followup from you.
Tim's posts cannot be construed as spam, as each is unique and
individually crafted. They may be obnoxious and they are definitely
off-topic, but it is not spam and it is not network abuse. (Tim also
demonstrates a touch of originality and humor, both of which would
serve you well.)

Spamming is what you do, Dave, as your responses are copy and paste
boilerplate, which you post by the thousands. This is Excessive
Multi-Posting, as described in the spam FAQ:

http://wiki.killfile.org/projects/usenet/faqs/spam/

While you post followups to this FAQ, there is little evidence that
you have read, let alone understood it.

So far as your whining about Google Groups, what you are doing is not
going to make any difference. All you have demonstrated is that you
are abscessed and act by compulsion, while completely ignoring any
semblance of reality or normalcy. In the hundreds of thousands of
time you posted your demand, you have made exactly no progress toward
depeering Google Groups, while you, yourself, post links to your
Google Groups searches for your own spammed phrase.

You are never going to depeer Google Groups, no matter how many times
you post this inane demand.

Rather than trashing the newsgroups to which you post, have you
considered rendering your complaints to Google?

$ whois -h whois.abuse.net googlegroups.com
abuse@googlegroups.com (for googlegroups.com)
abuse@google.com (for googlegroups.com)

Your best hope is to annoy Google sufficiently, that they block access
to whatever group you think you're trying to protect. This is why one
cannot access news.admin.net-abuse.email, using the lame G2 http2nntp
(web2news) interface. It sure beats the hell out of simply
compounding the non-net-abuse issue of off-topic postings, by
spamming. Spamming Usenet is a network abuse issue.

Please stop spamming.

- --
David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com>
"Pray look better, Sir . . . those things yonder are no giants, but
windmills." - Miguel de Cervantes (1547-1616)

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On 2023-03-26 1:03 p.m., David Ritz wrote:
> [ x-posted to rec.arts.drwho ]
> [ followup set to news.admin.net-abuse.usenet ]
>
> On Sunday, 26 March 2023 00:13 -0000,
> in article <tvo2mu$i2o$34@gallifrey.nk.ca>,
> Dave "The Doctor" Yadallee <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>
>> In article <spam-faq.20230326000201$a337@news.killfile.org>,
>> Tim Skirvin <tskirvin@killfile.org> wrote:
>
>>> Archive-name: usenet/spam-faq
>>> Posting-Frequency: weekly
>>> Last-modified: 1998/11/10
>>> URL: http://wiki.killfile.org/projects/usenet/faqs/spam/
>>> Maintainer: tskirvin@killfile.org (Tim Skirvin)
>>> Original-Author: clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca (Chris Lewis)
>
>>> Current Spam thresholds and guidelines.
>
> [ snip weekly posting of the spam FAQ ]
>
>> anything Google can use to get rid of its spamtrollers?
>
> Spamtrollers exist only in your mind, spammer. Spammers post the same
> thing again and again, ie. EMP. Trolls look for a response: good, bad
> or indifferent. You, Dave Yadallee, are the fish that seems incapable
> of learning there is a hook hidden in the bait being trailed, in the
> waters of you native habitat.
>
> Trolling is what your buddy Tim does quite successfully, in
> rec.arts.drwho, as each of his posts provokes a followup from you.
> Tim's posts cannot be construed as spam, as each is unique and
> individually crafted. They may be obnoxious and they are definitely
> off-topic, but it is not spam and it is not network abuse. (Tim also
> demonstrates a touch of originality and humor, both of which would
> serve you well.)
>
> Spamming is what you do, Dave, as your responses are copy and paste
> boilerplate, which you post by the thousands. This is Excessive
> Multi-Posting, as described in the spam FAQ:
>
> http://wiki.killfile.org/projects/usenet/faqs/spam/
>
> While you post followups to this FAQ, there is little evidence that
> you have read, let alone understood it.
>
> So far as your whining about Google Groups, what you are doing is not
> going to make any difference. All you have demonstrated is that you
> are abscessed and act by compulsion, while completely ignoring any
> semblance of reality or normalcy. In the hundreds of thousands of
> time you posted your demand, you have made exactly no progress toward
> depeering Google Groups, while you, yourself, post links to your
> Google Groups searches for your own spammed phrase.
>
> You are never going to depeer Google Groups, no matter how many times
> you post this inane demand.
>
> Rather than trashing the newsgroups to which you post, have you
> considered rendering your complaints to Google?
>
> $ whois -h whois.abuse.net googlegroups.com
> abuse@googlegroups.com (for googlegroups.com)
> abuse@google.com (for googlegroups.com)
>
> Your best hope is to annoy Google sufficiently, that they block access
> to whatever group you think you're trying to protect. This is why one
> cannot access news.admin.net-abuse.email, using the lame G2 http2nntp
> (web2news) interface. It sure beats the hell out of simply
> compounding the non-net-abuse issue of off-topic postings, by
> spamming. Spamming Usenet is a network abuse issue.
>
> Please stop spamming.
>

+1

--
"You can safely assume you've created God in your own image when it
turns out God hates all the same people you do." -Anne Lamott

On 2023-03-26, David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com> wrote:

> Please stop spamming.

The thing that's extra frustrating is that Dave operates his own news
server. He has full control over whether he sees any of the spam that he
so enjoys redistributing. He screams about "Depeer Google Now!", but
won't even take the step of locking his door to it.

Cheers,
Tom

On 3/26/23 2:58 PM, Tom Furie wrote:
> The thing that's extra frustrating is that Dave operates his own news
> server. He has full control over whether he sees any of the spam that
> he so enjoys redistributing. He screams about "Depeer Google Now!",
> but won't even take the step of locking his door to it.

It's almost as if he /wants/ to spread the spam.

I don't know if it's an agenda to highlight problems with Google or if
it's something else.

But his behaviors demonstrate time and time again that he is willingly
and wantonly /re/distributing the spam.

I'm about to filter him on my personal news server. -- I'm now paying
attention to see the ratio of ham vs spam that he /re/distributes
(seemingly wantonly). If he's not providing more ham than he is spam,
he's going to be filtered.

--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

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On Sunday, 26 March 2023 20:58 -0000,
in article <tvqblc$h1d$1@freeq.furie.org.uk>,
Tom Furie <tom@furie.org.uk> wrote:

> On 2023-03-26, David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com> wrote:

>> Please stop spamming.

> The thing that's extra frustrating is that Dave operates his own
> news server. He has full control over whether he sees any of the
> spam that he so enjoys redistributing. He screams about "Depeer
> Google Now!", but won't even take the step of locking his door to
> it.

A day or two ago, I noticed that the bulk of Dave Yadallee's spam was
no longer appearing on news.panix.com. It appears their cleanfeed
instance has begun dropping the bulk of Dave's spam. Today, I see
this:

news.eternal-september.org: 151 messages rec.arts.drwho from doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
news.mixmin.net: 151 messages rec.arts.drwho from doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca
news.panix.com: 25 messages rec.arts.drwho from doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca

Yesterday, I notified Mr. Yadallee that this was happening:

>>> $ telnet news nntp
>>> Trying 166.84.1.70...
>>> Connected to news.lb.panix.com.
>>> Escape character is '^]'.
>>> 200 reader2.panix.com InterNetNews NNRP server INN 2.6.4 ready (posting ok)
>>> STAT <tvlocm$met$34@gallifrey.nk.ca>
>>> STAT <tvlocq$met$35@gallifrey.nk.ca>
>>> STAT <tvlocu$met$36@gallifrey.nk.ca>
>>> STAT <tvlod3$met$37@gallifrey.nk.ca>
>>> STAT <tvlod8$met$38@gallifrey.nk.ca>
>>> STAT <tvlodd$met$39@gallifrey.nk.ca>
>>> STAT <tvlodl$met$40@gallifrey.nk.ca>
>>> STAT <tvlods$met$41@gallifrey.nk.ca>
>>> STAT <tvloe1$met$42@gallifrey.nk.ca>
>>> STAT <tvloe9$met$43@gallifrey.nk.ca>
>>> STAT <tvloeg$met$44@gallifrey.nk.ca>
>>> STAT <tvloem$met$45@gallifrey.nk.ca>
>>> STAT <tvmsi9$2hnj$1@gallifrey.nk.ca>
>>> STAT <tvmsv7$2kr5$1@gallifrey.nk.ca>
>>> STAT <tvmuh7$8it$9@gallifrey.nk.ca>
>>> STAT <tvmuis$8it$16@gallifrey.nk.ca>
>>> STAT <tvmulf$8it$24@gallifrey.nk.ca>
>>> STAT <tvmulj$8it$25@gallifrey.nk.ca>
>>> STAT <tvmulv$8it$26@gallifrey.nk.ca>
>>> STAT <tvmuml$8it$27@gallifrey.nk.ca>
>>> STAT <tvmuqj$8it$28@gallifrey.nk.ca>
>>> STAT <tvmutj$8it$29@gallifrey.nk.ca>
>>> STAT <tvmuuv$8it$30@gallifrey.nk.ca>
>>> STAT <tvmv2v$8it$31@gallifrey.nk.ca>
>>> STAT <tvmv36$8it$32@gallifrey.nk.ca>
>>> STAT <tvmv46$8it$33@gallifrey.nk.ca>
>>> 430 No such article@gallifrey.nk.ca>
>>> 430 No such article
>>> 430 No such article
>>> 430 No such article
>>> 430 No such article
>>> 430 No such article
>>> 430 No such article
>>> 430 No such article
>>> 430 No such article
>>> 430 No such article
>>> 430 No such article
>>> 430 No such article
>>> 223 0 <tvmsi9$2hnj$1@gallifrey.nk.ca> status
>>> 223 0 <tvmsv7$2kr5$1@gallifrey.nk.ca> status
>>> 223 0 <tvmuh7$8it$9@gallifrey.nk.ca> status
>>> 430 No such article
>>> 430 No such article
>>> 430 No such article
>>> 430 No such article
>>> 430 No such article
>>> 430 No such article
>>> 430 No such article
>>> 430 No such article
>>> 430 No such article
>>> 430 No such article
>>> 430 No such article
>>> ifrey.nk.ca>
>>> STAT <tvmv57$8it$36@gallifrey.nk.ca>
>>> STAT <tvmv5b$8it$37@gallifrey.nk.ca>
>>> STAT <tvmv5f$8it$38@gallifrey.nk.ca>
>>> STAT <tvmv5k$8it$39@gallifrey.nk.ca>
>>> STAT <tvmv5r$8it$40@gallifrey.nk.ca>
>>> STAT <tvmv5v$8it$41@gallifrey.nk.ca>
>>> STAT <tvmv7g$8it$43@gallifrey.nk.ca>
>>> STAT <tvmv8r$8it$44@gallifrey.nk.ca>
>>> STAT <tvmva6$8it$45@gallifrey.nk.ca>
>>> STAT <tvmvaj$8it$46@gallifrey.nk.ca>
>>> STAT <tvmvb5$8it$47@gallifrey.nk.ca>
>>> STAT <tvmvc4$8it$48@gallifrey.nk.ca>
>>> STAT <tvmvcd$8it$49@gallifrey.nk.ca>
>>> STAT <tvmvfm$8it$64@gallifrey.nk.ca>
>>> STAT <tvn03q$fbu$1@gallifrey.nk.ca>
>>> STAT <tvn04c$fbu$2@gallifrey.nk.ca>
>>> 430 No such article
>>> 430 No such article
>>> 430 No such article
>>> 430 No such article
>>> 430 No such article
>>> 430 No such article
>>> 430 No such article
>>> 430 No such article
>>> 430 No such article
>>> 430 No such article
>>> 430 No such article
>>> 430 No such article
>>> 430 No such article
>>> 430 No such article
>>> 430 No such article
>>> 430 No such article
>>> 430 No such article
>>> QUIT
>>> 205 Bye!
>>> Connection closed by foreign host.

This indicates that only three, out of a group of forty two articles,
were written to the news.panix.com spool.

I've tried contacting Mr. Yadallee privately, via email and phone,
without success. Unfortunately, this limits pathways for remedy. I
truly wish this were not the case.

- --
David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com>
"(The Internet is) the largest equivalence class in the reflexive
transitive symmetric closure of the relationship `can be reached by
an IP packet form'." - Seth Breidbart

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

iF0EARECAB0WIQSc0FU3XAVGYDjSGUhSvCmZGhLe6wUCZCDu0QAKCRBSvCmZGhLe
62BvAJsEUQj5Pg5eg6x5BqK9fVEgVQXW/gCgzgvOHOmcIDBFvascgqHywPctey8=
=TNzA
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

On 3/26/23 7:18 PM, David Ritz wrote:
> I truly wish this were not the case.

I wish Dave would not quote the spam he's reporting.

He and I have discussed that message headers are sufficient.

We've also discussed that re-posting the body is tantamount to sending
the spam himself.

--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

On Sunday, 26 March 2023 20:23 -0600,
in article <tvqumr$ink$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>,
Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> wrote:

> On 3/26/23 7:18 PM, David Ritz wrote:

>> I truly wish this were not the case.

> I wish Dave would not quote the spam he's reporting.

That is a relatively minor case. Within the past week, he sometimes
trims the spam, when reposting headers and his nonsense spammed boiler
plate, at least when posting to news.admin.net-abuse.usenet.
Elsewhere it's more of the same. I strongly recommend paying a visit
to Dave's home newsgroup, rec.arts.drwho, in order to get a handle on
the scope of his spamming.

Spamming in an attempt at being a netKKKop is rather telling. This
includes his attempts at dissuading new users, whom Mr. Yadallee
immediately identifies as 'spamtrolls'. In Mr. Yadallee's twisted
perception, a new user simply posting, "Hello," by way of
introduction, is labeled a "spamtroll," as though that were a
meaningful appellation. Most disappear, as apparently being shown
their headers is a scary experience for the uninitiated..

> He and I have discussed that message headers are sufficient.

Posting full headers may be appropriate were a complaint being lodged.
Posting them anywhere other than the defunct
news.admin.net-abuse.sightings is simply off-topic crud. It's not as
though he is providing an in depth analysis of the headers.

> We've also discussed that re-posting the body is tantamount to
> sending the spam himself.

I have asked, more than once, how much are the spammers paying him to
repost their spam. Where using a killfile to eliminate any article
with a Google Message-ID make this GG spam pretty easy to avoid,
Dave's reposted spam is far more difficult, unless one also drop M-IDs
showing gallifrey.nk.ca in the bozo bin, as well. (A killfile based
on the appearance of groups.google.com or googlegroups.com in the
References headers may also help, by eliminating those, like Mr.
Yadallee, who post followups to posts from mouth-breathing,
knuckle-dragging Google Groups lusers.)

P.S. Dave's <NetKnow@gmail.com> account is still live and presumably
active. So much for boycotting this service.

--
David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com>
"He says NO! in thunder; but the Devil himself cannot make him say yes."
- Herman Melville (1819-91)

David Ritz wrote on 27/3/23 6:03 am:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> [ x-posted to rec.arts.drwho ]
> [ followup set to news.admin.net-abuse.usenet ]
>
> On Sunday, 26 March 2023 00:13 -0000,
> in article <tvo2mu$i2o$34@gallifrey.nk.ca>,
> Dave "The Doctor" Yadallee <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>
>> In article <spam-faq.20230326000201$a337@news.killfile.org>,
>> Tim Skirvin <tskirvin@killfile.org> wrote:
>
>>> Archive-name: usenet/spam-faq
>>> Posting-Frequency: weekly
>>> Last-modified: 1998/11/10
>>> URL: http://wiki.killfile.org/projects/usenet/faqs/spam/
>>> Maintainer: tskirvin@killfile.org (Tim Skirvin)
>>> Original-Author: clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca (Chris Lewis)
>
>>> Current Spam thresholds and guidelines.
>
> [ snip weekly posting of the spam FAQ ]
>
>> anything Google can use to get rid of its spamtrollers?
>
> Spamtrollers exist only in your mind, spammer. Spammers post the same
> thing again and again, ie. EMP. Trolls look for a response: good, bad
> or indifferent. You, Dave Yadallee, are the fish that seems incapable
> of learning there is a hook hidden in the bait being trailed, in the
> waters of you native habitat.
>
> Trolling is what your buddy Tim does quite successfully, in
> rec.arts.drwho, as each of his posts provokes a followup from you.
> Tim's posts cannot be construed as spam, as each is unique and
> individually crafted. They may be obnoxious and they are definitely
> off-topic, but it is not spam and it is not network abuse. (Tim also
> demonstrates a touch of originality and humor, both of which would
> serve you well.)
>
> Spamming is what you do, Dave, as your responses are copy and paste
> boilerplate, which you post by the thousands. This is Excessive
> Multi-Posting, as described in the spam FAQ:
>
> http://wiki.killfile.org/projects/usenet/faqs/spam/
>
> While you post followups to this FAQ, there is little evidence that
> you have read, let alone understood it.
>
> So far as your whining about Google Groups, what you are doing is not
> going to make any difference. All you have demonstrated is that you
> are abscessed and act by compulsion, while completely ignoring any
> semblance of reality or normalcy. In the hundreds of thousands of
> time you posted your demand, you have made exactly no progress toward
> depeering Google Groups, while you, yourself, post links to your
> Google Groups searches for your own spammed phrase.
>
> You are never going to depeer Google Groups, no matter how many times
> you post this inane demand.
>
> Rather than trashing the newsgroups to which you post, have you
> considered rendering your complaints to Google?
>
> $ whois -h whois.abuse.net googlegroups.com
> abuse@googlegroups.com (for googlegroups.com)
> abuse@google.com (for googlegroups.com)
>
> Your best hope is to annoy Google sufficiently, that they block access
> to whatever group you think you're trying to protect. This is why one
> cannot access news.admin.net-abuse.email, using the lame G2 http2nntp
> (web2news) interface. It sure beats the hell out of simply
> compounding the non-net-abuse issue of off-topic postings, by
> spamming. Spamming Usenet is a network abuse issue.
>
> Please stop spamming.
>
> - --
> David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com>
> "Pray look better, Sir . . . those things yonder are no giants, but
> windmills." - Miguel de Cervantes (1547-1616)
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> iF0EARECAB0WIQSc0FU3XAVGYDjSGUhSvCmZGhLe6wUCZCCXFQAKCRBSvCmZGhLe
> 6w3LAJ4ogGleqzdG3UNUYjOalkjvIvOX7gCg6sWaYdzp/metuUzWLlqUUwdTlR8=
> =n9uK
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
Hear!! Hear!
--
Daniel

In article <tvruu3$36rmn$1@dont-email.me>,
Daniel65 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:
>David Ritz wrote on 27/3/23 6:03 am:
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> [ x-posted to rec.arts.drwho ]
>> [ followup set to news.admin.net-abuse.usenet ]
>>
>> On Sunday, 26 March 2023 00:13 -0000,
>> in article <tvo2mu$i2o$34@gallifrey.nk.ca>,
>> Dave "The Doctor" Yadallee <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <spam-faq.20230326000201$a337@news.killfile.org>,
>>> Tim Skirvin <tskirvin@killfile.org> wrote:
>>
>>>> Archive-name: usenet/spam-faq
>>>> Posting-Frequency: weekly
>>>> Last-modified: 1998/11/10
>>>> URL: http://wiki.killfile.org/projects/usenet/faqs/spam/
>>>> Maintainer: tskirvin@killfile.org (Tim Skirvin)
>>>> Original-Author: clewis@ferret.ocunix.on.ca (Chris Lewis)
>>
>>>> Current Spam thresholds and guidelines.
>>
>> [ snip weekly posting of the spam FAQ ]
>>
>>> anything Google can use to get rid of its spamtrollers?
>>
>> Spamtrollers exist only in your mind, spammer. Spammers post the same
>> thing again and again, ie. EMP. Trolls look for a response: good, bad
>> or indifferent. You, Dave Yadallee, are the fish that seems incapable
>> of learning there is a hook hidden in the bait being trailed, in the
>> waters of you native habitat.
>>
>> Trolling is what your buddy Tim does quite successfully, in
>> rec.arts.drwho, as each of his posts provokes a followup from you.
>> Tim's posts cannot be construed as spam, as each is unique and
>> individually crafted. They may be obnoxious and they are definitely
>> off-topic, but it is not spam and it is not network abuse. (Tim also
>> demonstrates a touch of originality and humor, both of which would
>> serve you well.)
>>
>> Spamming is what you do, Dave, as your responses are copy and paste
>> boilerplate, which you post by the thousands. This is Excessive
>> Multi-Posting, as described in the spam FAQ:
>>
>> http://wiki.killfile.org/projects/usenet/faqs/spam/
>>
>> While you post followups to this FAQ, there is little evidence that
>> you have read, let alone understood it.
>>
>> So far as your whining about Google Groups, what you are doing is not
>> going to make any difference. All you have demonstrated is that you
>> are abscessed and act by compulsion, while completely ignoring any
>> semblance of reality or normalcy. In the hundreds of thousands of
>> time you posted your demand, you have made exactly no progress toward
>> depeering Google Groups, while you, yourself, post links to your
>> Google Groups searches for your own spammed phrase.
>>
>> You are never going to depeer Google Groups, no matter how many times
>> you post this inane demand.
>>
>> Rather than trashing the newsgroups to which you post, have you
>> considered rendering your complaints to Google?
>>
>> $ whois -h whois.abuse.net googlegroups.com
>> abuse@googlegroups.com (for googlegroups.com)
>> abuse@google.com (for googlegroups.com)
>>
>> Your best hope is to annoy Google sufficiently, that they block access
>> to whatever group you think you're trying to protect. This is why one
>> cannot access news.admin.net-abuse.email, using the lame G2 http2nntp
>> (web2news) interface. It sure beats the hell out of simply
>> compounding the non-net-abuse issue of off-topic postings, by
>> spamming. Spamming Usenet is a network abuse issue.
>>
>> Please stop spamming.
>>
>> - --
>> David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com>
>> "Pray look better, Sir . . . those things yonder are no giants, but
>> windmills." - Miguel de Cervantes (1547-1616)
>>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>
>> iF0EARECAB0WIQSc0FU3XAVGYDjSGUhSvCmZGhLe6wUCZCCXFQAKCRBSvCmZGhLe
>> 6w3LAJ4ogGleqzdG3UNUYjOalkjvIvOX7gCg6sWaYdzp/metuUzWLlqUUwdTlR8=
>> =n9uK
>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>
>Hear!! Hear!
>--
>Daniel

Then will you report Tim for Spamming Daniel?
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism https://www.empire.kred/ROOTNK?t=94a1f39b
There is a doctrine, whereby 'living by the Bible' makes them as bad as Satan himself. -unknown Beware https://mindspring.com

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Monday, 27 March 2023 15:48 -0000,
in article <tvsds4$q22$45@gallifrey.nk.ca>,
The Doctor <doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:

> Then will you report Tim for Spamming Daniel?

Again, Tim is not spamming Daniel nor anyonoe else, AFAICT. To whom
would you want Daniel to report? What do you want reported?

When you, Dave, are compusively posting boiler plate followups, do you
believe you are reporting something?

Please stop spamming.

- --
David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com>
"This isn't a win/lose kind of thing. If there's a UDP, we all lose.
If the abuse stops, we all win." - Jeremy Nixon

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

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61F7AKCpckxHbnRxNTNY1CIAlaxsztvF+gCg+Yi8TYq3Xg31et6uMPjzwCaJuqU=
=hJV5
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> writes:
> I'm about to filter him on my personal news server. -- I'm now
> paying attention to see the ratio of ham vs spam that he
> /re/distributes (seemingly wantonly). If he's not providing more ham
> than he is spam, he's going to be filtered.

I’ve done the same. I noticed a while ago that he was consistently
posting more articles than anyone else in my spool, but hadn’t looked
into what they were until now.

--
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

On Tuesday, 04 April 2023 03:42 -0000,
in article <wwv355gf5z3.fsf@LkoBDZeT.terraraq.uk>,
Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> writes:

>> I'm about to filter him on my personal news server. -- I'm now
>> paying attention to see the ratio of ham vs spam that he
>> /re/distributes (seemingly wantonly). If he's not providing more
>> ham than he is spam, he's going to be filtered.

> I've done the same. I noticed a while ago that he was consistently
> posting more articles than anyone else in my spool, but hadn't
> looked into what they were until now.

After pointing out that cleanfeed installations were dropping Mr.
Yadallee's spam, he has begun playing what I refer to as, "Stupid
Spammer Games," in order to avoid tripping hash detectors. Of course,
doing so does not make his obsessive whining any less Excessive
Multi-Posting (Usenet spam).

As of yesterday, Mr. Yadallee has begun including me in his spam,
rather than 1) following my recommendations regarding dealing with
Google Groups and 2) ceasing his infantile behavio(u)r.

% grep -iE ^\[a-z\].\*David\ Ritz mail/yads.txt | count | grep -i spamtroll
2 More spamtroll endorsed by David Ritz and Idlehands posted by Tim Bruening!
1 Your friends David Ritz and Idlehands must love you spamtrolling around here!
1 Yet more David Ritz/Idlehands sanctioned spamtroll by Tim Bruening.
1 Tim Bruening spamtroll supported by Idlehands and David Ritz.
1 Tim Bruening spamtroll get bellsings from David Ritz and Idlehands!
1 Tim Bruening spamtroll cheered on by David Ritz and Idlehands!
1 Tim Bruening spamtroll apprvoed by IDlehands and David Ritz.
1 Tim Bruening spamtroll approved by Idlehands and David Ritz.
1 Tim Bruening Spamtroll blessed by Idlehands and David Ritz.
1 This tim Bruening spamtroll was endorsed by Idlehands and David Ritz!
1 This Tim Bruening Spamtroll was approved by Idlehadns and David Ritz!
1 Still getting approval to spamtroll rec.arts.drwho from David Ritz?
1 Spamtroll by Tim Bruening encouraged by David Ritz and Idlehands!
1 Spamtroll apprvoed by David Ritz/Idlehands posted by Tim Bruening!
1 Sanctioned Idlehands/David Ritz spamtroll by Tim Bruening !
1 More tim Bruening spamtroll encouraged by Idlehdns and David Ritz.
1 More endorsed spamtroll by Idlehands and David Ritz?
1 More endorsed spamtroll by Idlehadns and David Ritz tim Bruenng?
1 More approved spamtroll by Idlehadns and David Ritz I see.
1 More approved Timwit Bruening spamtroll by Idlehadns and David Ritz.
1 More Tim Bruening spamtroll apprvoed by David Ritz and Idlehands.
1 More Idlehands/David Ritz appoved spamtroll!
1 MOre spamtroll by Tim Bruening apporved by David Ritz and Idlehands!
1 MOre Idlehands/David Ritz approved spamtroll by Tim Bruening!
1 MOre Idlehands/David Ritz approved Tim Bruening spamtroll.
1 MOre IDlehands/David Ritz sanctioned spamtroll by Tim Bruening!
1 MORe spamtroll blessed by IDleahdns and David Ritz
1 Idlehands and David Ritz endorsed Tim Bruening spamtroll!
1 Idlehands and David Ritz approves of this Tim Bruening spamtroll!
1 Idlehands and David Ritz approves of this Tim Bruening spamtroll!
1 Idlehands and David Ritz approved tim Bruening Spamtroll!
1 Approved David Ritz/Idlehands Tim Bruening spamtroll!

So, with just a couple of incoherent posting sessions, Mr. Yadallee
has conveyed the same meaning, in more than thirty posts to RADW, in
just about twenty four hours. As BI=31/1 > 20/45 per, this, too,
exceeds the spam threshold described in the spam FAQ:

http://wiki.killfile.org/projects/usenet/faqs/spam/

As Mr. Yadallee continues to be unwilling or unable to reply to the
facts, as presented, it may be time for broader action. I would
greatly prefer that he would respond via email, in this thread, or
through his actions, to address the ongoing network abuse incidents
associated with this apparently rogue ISP: Netline 2000/NetKnow.

Path: ..!news.nk.ca!.POSTED.doctor.nl2k.ab.ca!not-for-mail

$ whois -h whois.arin.net 204.209.81.3

NetRange: 204.209.81.0 - 204.209.81.255
CIDR: 204.209.81.0/24
NetName: NL2K-AB-CA
NetHandle: NET-204-209-81-0-1
Parent: NET204 (NET-204-0-0-0-0)
NetType: Direct Allocation
OriginAS:
Organization: Netline 2000 (NETLIN-13)
RegDate: 1994-12-11
Updated: 2021-12-14
Ref: https://rdap.arin.net/registry/ip/204.209.81.0

OrgName: Netline 2000
OrgId: NETLIN-13
Address: 3328 - 138 Ave
City: Edmonton
StateProv: AB
PostalCode: T5Y-1M4
Country: CA
RegDate: 1994-12-11
Updated: 2011-09-24
Ref: https://rdap.arin.net/registry/entity/NETLIN-13

OrgAbuseHandle: DY393-ARIN
OrgAbuseName: Yadallee, Dave
OrgAbusePhone: +1-587-557-9170
OrgAbuseEmail: root@mail.nl2k.ab.ca
OrgAbuseRef: https://rdap.arin.net/registry/entity/DY393-ARIN

OrgTechHandle: DY393-ARIN
OrgTechName: Yadallee, Dave
OrgTechPhone: +1-587-557-9170
OrgTechEmail: root@mail.nl2k.ab.ca
OrgTechRef: https://rdap.arin.net/registry/entity/DY393-ARIN

RTechHandle: DY393-ARIN
RTechName: Yadallee, Dave
RTechPhone: +1-587-557-9170
RTechEmail: root@mail.nl2k.ab.ca
RTechRef: https://rdap.arin.net/registry/entity/DY393-ARIN

$ whob 204.209.81.3
IP: 204.209.81.3
Origin-AS: 6171
Prefix: 204.209.81.0/24
AS-Path: 293 2914 852 6171
AS-Org-Name: WorldGate
Org-Name: Netline 2000
Net-Name: NL2K-AB-CA
Cache-Date: Apr 05 2023 06:54:02
Latitude: 53.600628
Longitude: -113.391115
City: Edmonton
Region: Alberta
Country: Canada
Country-Code: CA
Route-Originated-Date: Mar 25 2023 06:48:00
Route-Originated-TS: 1679726880

$ whois -h whois.abuse.net incentre.net
abuse@incentre.net (for incentre.net)

Please stop spamming, Dave.

--
David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com>
"He is useless on top of the ground; he ought to be under it,
inspiring the cabbages." - Mark Twain (1835-1910)