Joel wrote:

> I'm 46, and while not "old" just yet, I have been around Usenet since
> the mid '90s, and I think I have reasonably well behaved like an
> adult, here.

I'm almost double your age but it was a rhetorical question.
1. You are ignorant of the facts
2. You disputed the facts, even though you were ignorant of them
3. I gave you plenty of links, but you didn't click on any of them
4. you continued to dispute the facts
5. You disputed that the links even existed, for God's sake, Joel.

Who is _that_ incredibly stupid?
HINT: iKooks

You did what a small child does, Joel.
Not an actual adult.

No adult would disagree with facts (facts are funny that way).
What adults often disagree with are assessments of facts (adults are funny that way.

It's clear you were ignorant of the facts, so you weren't qualified to
assess them. If you want to say that the fatal flaws are no big deal, then
that's a fine assessment (although it contains a hidden gotcha)...

But all you did was act like a child by saying all facts don't exist.
Stop that.

Act like an adult.

> If I question the M1 or M2 having "fatal flaws", it's
> because there simply isn't evidence being presented to contradict what
> I've learned about them before. Feel free to show that I missed
> something, but all I've actually seen presented was one obscure bug,
> not affecting routine use of Apple's machines.

Do you agree yet that there are known flaws that are unpatchable?
Do you also agree that you disputed that fact without even knowing it?

Tell the truth.

On 2023-04-02 19:47, Andy Burnelli wrote:
> Joel wrote:
>
>> I'm 46, and while not "old" just yet, I have been around Usenet since
>> the mid '90s, and I think I have reasonably well behaved like an
>> adult, here.
>
> I'm almost double your age but it was a rhetorical question.
> 1. You are ignorant of the facts
> 2. You disputed the facts, even though you were ignorant of them
> 3. I gave you plenty of links, but you didn't click on any of them
> 4. you continued to dispute the facts
> 5. You disputed that the links even existed, for God's sake, Joel.
>
> Who is _that_ incredibly stupid?
> HINT: iKooks
>
> You did what a small child does, Joel.
> Not an actual adult.
>
> No adult would disagree with facts (facts are funny that way).
> What adults often disagree with are assessments of facts (adults are
> funny that way.
>
> It's clear you were ignorant of the facts, so you weren't qualified to
> assess them. If you want to say that the fatal flaws are no big deal,
> then that's a fine assessment (although it contains a hidden gotcha)...
> But all you did was act like a child by saying all facts don't exist.
> Stop that.
>
> Act like an adult.
>
>> If I question the M1 or M2 having "fatal flaws", it's
>> because there simply isn't evidence being presented to contradict what
>> I've learned about them before.  Feel free to show that I missed
>> something, but all I've actually seen presented was one obscure bug,
>> not affecting routine use of Apple's machines.
>
> Do you agree yet that there are known flaws that are unpatchable?
> Do you also agree that you disputed that fact without even knowing it?
>
> Tell the truth.

Do you agree that those flaws are inherent in the ARM ISA being used by
Apple Silicon and many other CPUs?

Tell the truth.

"Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com>" wrote in message
<news:u0detq$2qaac$3@dont-email.me>...

> Do you agree that those flaws are inherent in the ARM ISA being used by
> Apple Silicon and many other CPUs?

How could Apple CPUs have the same flaws as other CPUs?
Could it be Apple didn't design it but only copied it from the other CPUs?
--
Regards
wasbit

On 2023-04-02 20:05, wasbit wrote:
> "Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com>" wrote in message
> <news:u0detq$2qaac$3@dont-email.me>...
>
>> Do you agree that those flaws are inherent in the ARM ISA being used
>> by Apple Silicon and many other CPUs?
>
> How could Apple CPUs have the same flaws as other CPUs?
> Could it be Apple didn't design it but only copied it from the other CPUs?

Do you even know what an Instruction Set Architecture is?

"Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com>" wrote in message
<news:u0di13$2r238$1@dont-email.me>...

>> How could Apple CPUs have the same flaws as other CPUs?
>> Could it be Apple didn't design it but only copied it from the other CPUs?
>
> Do you even know what an Instruction Set Architecture is?

No. Explain how Apple supposedly designed their own unique CPU and yet all
the flaws are the same as in many other CPUs that Apple didn't even design.
--
Regards
wasbit

On 2023-04-02 21:17, wasbit wrote:
> "Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com>" wrote in message
> <news:u0di13$2r238$1@dont-email.me>...
>
>>> How could Apple CPUs have the same flaws as other CPUs?
>>> Could it be Apple didn't design it but only copied it from the other
>>> CPUs?
>>
>> Do you even know what an Instruction Set Architecture is?
>
> No. Explain how Apple supposedly designed their own unique CPU and yet all
> the flaws are the same as in many other CPUs that Apple didn't even design.

Because the flaw was in the ISA itself, sunshine.

Andy Burnelli <nospam@nospam.net> wrote:

>> I'm 46, and while not "old" just yet, I have been around Usenet since
>> the mid '90s, and I think I have reasonably well behaved like an
>> adult, here.
>
>I'm almost double your age

You somehow think that is impressive? I didn't develop an interest in
hardware and OS internals yesterday, it's something I even wanted to
pursue a career in, when I was in college.

> but it was a rhetorical question.
>1. You are ignorant of the facts
>2. You disputed the facts, even though you were ignorant of them
>3. I gave you plenty of links, but you didn't click on any of them
>4. you continued to dispute the facts
>5. You disputed that the links even existed, for God's sake, Joel.
>
>Who is _that_ incredibly stupid?
>HINT: iKooks
>
>You did what a small child does, Joel.
>Not an actual adult.
>
>No adult would disagree with facts (facts are funny that way).
>What adults often disagree with are assessments of facts (adults are funny that way.
>
>It's clear you were ignorant of the facts, so you weren't qualified to
>assess them. If you want to say that the fatal flaws are no big deal, then
>that's a fine assessment (although it contains a hidden gotcha)...
>
>But all you did was act like a child by saying all facts don't exist.
>Stop that.
>
>Act like an adult.

I will tell you the same thing, when you make an assertion,
*IMMEDIATELY* include solid evidence, don't try to claim authority and
claim everyone else should already know - you did that *because* the
actual "flaw(s)" are *not* "fatal". You are a liar.

>> If I question the M1 or M2 having "fatal flaws", it's
>> because there simply isn't evidence being presented to contradict what
>> I've learned about them before. Feel free to show that I missed
>> something, but all I've actually seen presented was one obscure bug,
>> not affecting routine use of Apple's machines.
>
>Do you agree yet that there are known flaws that are unpatchable?
>Do you also agree that you disputed that fact without even knowing it?
>
>Tell the truth.

There are no "fatal flaws". That was your precise claim, never
evidenced by you or anyone else.

--
Joel Crump

"Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com>" wrote in message
<news:u0dns8$2rnha$1@dont-email.me>...

>>> Do you even know what an Instruction Set Architecture is?
>>
>> No. Explain how Apple supposedly designed their own unique CPU and yet all
>> the flaws are the same as in many other CPUs that Apple didn't even design.
>
> Because the flaw was in the ISA itself, sunshine.

Which means the M1 is just a carbon copy of everyone else's CPU designs,
"sunshine."
--
Regards
wasbit

wasbit <wasbitREMOVE@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com>" wrote in message
> <news:u0dns8$2rnha$1@dont-email.me>...
>
>>>> Do you even know what an Instruction Set Architecture is?
>>>
>>> No. Explain how Apple supposedly designed their own unique CPU and yet all
>>> the flaws are the same as in many other CPUs that Apple didn't even design.
>>
>> Because the flaw was in the ISA itself, sunshine.
>
> Which means the M1 is just a carbon copy of everyone else's CPU designs,
> "sunshine."

The M1 (and M2 and Mx) are not just CPUs. They are a “system on a chip”
(SOC). They include the CPU, RAM, ROM, GPU, I/O and everything else
needed. THAT is what makes them unique AND they absolutely WERE designed
by Apple.

All ARM CPUs have this flaw, and it is not “fatal”. The CPUs in Android
phones have the same issue. The flaw is in the ISA, which you clearly do
not understand, AND it can be (and is being) worked around in the OS.

Which you also clearly do not understand.

Get your head out of your ass and you just might see some sunshine.

On 2023-04-03, Bob Campbell <nunya@none.none> wrote:
> wasbit <wasbitREMOVE@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> "Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com>" wrote in message
>> <news:u0dns8$2rnha$1@dont-email.me>...
>>
>>>>> Do you even know what an Instruction Set Architecture is?
>>>>
>>>> No. Explain how Apple supposedly designed their own unique CPU and
>>>> yet all the flaws are the same as in many other CPUs that Apple
>>>> didn't even design.
>>>
>>> Because the flaw was in the ISA itself, sunshine.
>>
>> Which means the M1 is just a carbon copy of everyone else's CPU
>> designs, "sunshine."
>
> The M1 (and M2 and Mx) are not just CPUs. They are a “system on a
> chip” (SOC). They include the CPU, RAM, ROM, GPU, I/O and everything
> else needed. THAT is what makes them unique AND they absolutely WERE
> designed by Apple.
>
> All ARM CPUs have this flaw, and it is not “fatal”. The CPUs in
> Android phones have the same issue. The flaw is in the ISA, which you
> clearly do not understand, AND it can be (and is being) worked around
> in the OS.
>
> Which you also clearly do not understand.
>
> Get your head out of your ass and you just might see some sunshine.

The willful stupidity required to claim all chip designs that share an
ISA are "carbon copies" of each other pretty much guarantees this
"wasbit" will never traverse the Dunning–Kruger inflection point.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

On 2023-04-03 06:47, wasbit wrote:
> "Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com>" wrote in message
> <news:u0dns8$2rnha$1@dont-email.me>...
>
>>>> Do you even know what an Instruction Set Architecture is?
>>>
>>> No. Explain how Apple supposedly designed their own unique CPU and
>>> yet all
>>> the flaws are the same as in many other CPUs that Apple didn't even
>>> design.
>>
>> Because the flaw was in the ISA itself, sunshine.
>
> Which means the M1 is just a carbon copy of everyone else's CPU designs,
> "sunshine."

Wrong.

Designing a processor to execute an Instruction Set Architecture does
NOT mean that you design it the same as "everyone else's".