To: Digital Man
Good day, Sir!

Just a thought about messages and timezones...

Whenever I read through QWK and FTN-based messages, I see each message tagged with a timezone or offset. This is great, yet I also feel it isn't necessary. Instead, why can't we inquire with the user during sign-up and within the Default User Config.

Asking the user their timezone, utilizing a similar manner to that of RHEL and Debian-based /usr/share/zoneinfo/zone1970.tab could help populate the request from the user. Then, when displaying messages, all messages are displayed based upon the offset and not the original source message.

Just a thought...

Brian Klauss <-> Dream Master
Caught in a Dream | caughtinadream.com a Synchronet BBS

---
■ Synchronet ■ Caught in a Dream - caughtinadream.com
--- Synchronet 3.19c-Win32 NewsLink 1.113
* Vertrauen - Riverside County, California - telnet://vert.synchro.net

To: Dream Master
Re: Message Timezones
By: Dream Master to Digital Man on Thu Mar 31 2022 10:47 am

> Good day, Sir!
>
> Just a thought about messages and timezones...
>
> Whenever I read through QWK and FTN-based messages, I see each message
> tagged with a timezone or offset.

Unfortunately, not all messages are.

> This is great, yet I also feel it isn't
> necessary. Instead, why can't we inquire with the user during sign-up and
> within the Default User Config.

I've considered it. Users do move around however, sometimes between time zones. The BBS usually stays in one time zone.

If the standard was to timestamp messagse in UTC, then at least for message creation, it would be a moot point (what zone the BBS or the author was in), but unfortunately, that's not how existing BBS message networks work. The date/time stamps of messages are generally expected to be in the local time of the BBS.

> Asking the user their timezone, utilizing a similar manner to that of RHEL
> and Debian-based /usr/share/zoneinfo/zone1970.tab could help populate the
> request from the user. Then, when displaying messages, all messages are
> displayed based upon the offset and not the original source message.
>
> Just a thought...

A message reader could already do that in theory: just display a message's timestamp in UTC or convert to the user's preferred zone on the fly.

I kind of like seeing the originating timezone and the local time myself however. <shrug>
--
digital man (rob)

Rush quote #8:
One likes to believe in the freedom of music...
Norco, CA WX: 62.5°F, 69.0% humidity, 4 mph SE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
--- Synchronet 3.19c-Win32 NewsLink 1.113
* Vertrauen - Riverside County, California - telnet://vert.synchro.net

To: Digital Man
Re: Message Timezones
By: Digital Man to Dream Master on Thu Mar 31 2022 12:48:52

> I've considered it. Users do move around however, sometimes between time
> zones. The BBS usually stays in one time zone.

Just a thought...

What if the time zone was derived from the location of the user's IP address?

---
■ Synchronet ■ ANSUN - ansun.synchro.net
--- Synchronet 3.19c-Win32 NewsLink 1.113
* Vertrauen - Riverside County, California - telnet://vert.synchro.net

To: Digital Man
Re: Message Timezones
By: Digital Man to Dream Master on Thu Mar 31 2022 12:48 pm

DM> I kind of like seeing the originating timezone and the local time myself
DM> however. <shrug> --

I prefer when it didn't matter what time it was, because the transfers were measured in days.

- Andre

---
■ Synchronet ■ Radio Mentor BBS - bbs.radiomentor.org
--- Synchronet 3.19c-Win32 NewsLink 1.113
* Vertrauen - Riverside County, California - telnet://vert.synchro.net

To: Martin Rayburn
Re: Message Timezones
By: Martin Rayburn to Digital Man on Thu Mar 31 2022 03:53 pm

> Re: Message Timezones
> By: Digital Man to Dream Master on Thu Mar 31 2022 12:48:52
>
> > I've considered it. Users do move around however, sometimes between time
> > zones. The BBS usually stays in one time zone.
>
> Just a thought...
>
> What if the time zone was derived from the location of the user's IP
> address?

It's a possibility.
--
digital man (rob)

This Is Spinal Tap quote #32:
Derek Smalls: [A jog?] We don't have time for that.
Norco, CA WX: 61.3°F, 72.0% humidity, 12 mph SE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
--- Synchronet 3.19c-Win32 NewsLink 1.113
* Vertrauen - Riverside County, California - telnet://vert.synchro.net

To: Digital Man
-=> Digital Man wrote to Dream Master <=-

DM> Re: Message Timezones
DM> By: Dream Master to Digital Man on Thu Mar 31 2022 10:47 am

> Whenever I read through QWK and FTN-based messages, I see each message
> tagged with a timezone or offset.

DM> Unfortunately, not all messages are.

Standards, it seems that we lack standards. :)

> This is great, yet I also feel it isn't
> necessary. Instead, why can't we inquire with the user during sign-up and
> within the Default User Config.

DM> I've considered it. Users do move around however, sometimes between
DM> time zones. The BBS usually stays in one time zone.

Really? Why would users move around? If our users are connecting into our
systems, they still have a "home" location, such as PST8PDT or MST7MDT (old
school, but America/Los Angeles or America/Denver). I think I'm trying to
compare BBSes and our users to that of business e-mail and messaging systems
(Teams, Slack, Exchange, etc.) where each is configured to the user's timezone
and the BBS is configured to whatever timezone it is sourced at. Even if we
configure everything to UTC, user offsets could still be a "thing".

DM> If the standard was to timestamp messagse in UTC, then at least for
DM> message creation, it would be a moot point (what zone the BBS or the
DM> author was in), but unfortunately, that's not how existing BBS message
DM> networks work. The date/time stamps of messages are generally expected
DM> to be in the local time of the BBS.

Very valid point. Just one of those "nice to have" things.

DM> A message reader could already do that in theory: just display a
DM> message's timestamp in UTC or convert to the user's preferred zone on
DM> the fly.

DM> I kind of like seeing the originating timezone and the local time
DM> myself however. <shrug> --
I'd love to see a message reader do that. Now, if I can only find the time in
my overly hectic life to add something to our message readers. And your shrug,
I support it. I do like seeing where people are at, generally speaking.

.... Computer Hacker wanted. Must have own axe.
--- MultiMail/Mac v0.52
� Synchronet � Caught in a Dream - caughtinadream.com
--- Synchronet 3.19c-Win32 NewsLink 1.113
* Vertrauen - Riverside County, California - telnet://vert.synchro.net

To: Digital Man
-=> On 03-31-22 12:48, Digital Man wrote to Dream Master <=-

DM> I've considered it. Users do move around however, sometimes between
DM> time zones. The BBS usually stays in one time zone.

I'm a case in point. I'm currently 1 hour behind my BBS, but because this
laptop is still configured for my home time zone, timestamps on this message
are also an hour ahead of where I am. :D

DM> If the standard was to timestamp messagse in UTC, then at least for
DM> message creation, it would be a moot point (what zone the BBS or the
DM> author was in), but unfortunately, that's not how existing BBS message
DM> networks work. The date/time stamps of messages are generally expected
DM> to be in the local time of the BBS.

Yeah that has been the standard, rather than letting each end work out its own
offset.

> Asking the user their timezone, utilizing a similar manner to that of RHEL
> and Debian-based /usr/share/zoneinfo/zone1970.tab could help populate the
> request from the user. Then, when displaying messages, all messages are
> displayed based upon the offset and not the original source message.
>
> Just a thought...

DM> A message reader could already do that in theory: just display a
DM> message's timestamp in UTC or convert to the user's preferred zone on
DM> the fly.

Assuming every link in the chain was set correctly, otherwise you'll see
apparent feats of time travil! :D

DM> I kind of like seeing the originating timezone and the local time
DM> myself however. <shrug> --
DM> digital man (rob)

It is an interesting curiosity, but harder to work out transit or response
times. :)

.... What if I told you I'm here to set you free?
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
--- Synchronet 3.19c-Win32 NewsLink 1.113
* Vertrauen - Riverside County, California - telnet://vert.synchro.net

To: Martin Rayburn
-=> On 03-31-22 15:53, Martin Rayburn wrote to Digital Man <=-

MR> @VIA: VERT/ANSUN
MR> Re: Message Timezones
MR> By: Digital Man to Dream Master on Thu Mar 31 2022 12:48:52

> I've considered it. Users do move around however, sometimes between time
> zones. The BBS usually stays in one time zone.

MR> Just a thought...

MR> What if the time zone was derived from the location of the user's IP
MR> address?

What time zone is 10.43.21.14 in? ;) For technical reasons, I access my BBS
over a ZeroTier virtual LAN when I'm away from home. That is my actual IP that
the BBS sees. ;) And I can be anywhere in the world with that IP. Currently
1300km away from home and an hour behind in Brisbane.

.... Old archers never die, they just bow and quiver.
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
■ Synchronet ■ Freeway BBS, Bendigo Australia. freeway.apana.org.au
--- Synchronet 3.19c-Win32 NewsLink 1.113
* Vertrauen - Riverside County, California - telnet://vert.synchro.net

To: Dream Master
Re: Re: Message Timezones
By: Dream Master to Digital Man on Thu Mar 31 2022 09:29 pm

DM>> I've considered it. Users do move around however, sometimes between
DM>> time zones. The BBS usually stays in one time zone.

DM> Really? Why would users move around? If our users are connecting into our

People move for the usual reasons, like maybe they got a job somewhere else, or maybe they want to move somewhere with a lower cost of living, or to be closer to family, etc., etc...

Nightfox

---
■ Synchronet ■ Digital Distortion: digitaldistortionbbs.com
--- Synchronet 3.19c-Win32 NewsLink 1.113
* Vertrauen - Riverside County, California - telnet://vert.synchro.net

To: Vk3jed
Re: Re: Message Timezones
By: Vk3jed to Martin Rayburn on Fri Apr 01 2022 21:03:00

> MR> What if the time zone was derived from the location of the user's IP
> MR> address?
>
> What time zone is 10.43.21.14 in? ;) For technical reasons, I access my BBS
> over a ZeroTier virtual LAN when I'm away from home. That is my actual IP
> that the BBS sees. ;) And I can be anywhere in the world with that IP.
> Currently 1300km away from home and an hour behind in Brisbane.

Good point, but I would wager that the average user doesn't use anything of that sort.

---
■ Synchronet ■ ANSUN - ansun.synchro.net
--- Synchronet 3.19c-Win32 NewsLink 1.113
* Vertrauen - Riverside County, California - telnet://vert.synchro.net

To: Nightfox
Re: Re: Message Timezones
By: Nightfox to Dream Master on Fri Apr 01 2022 09:44:35

DM>> Really? Why would users move around? If our users are connecting
DM>> into our

Ni> People move for the usual reasons, like maybe they got a job somewhere
Ni> else, or maybe they want to move somewhere with a lower cost of living, or
Ni> to be closer to family, etc., etc...

Sometimes I move around just to prevent blood clots, bed sores, and muscle atrophy. None of this movement has brought me to a different time zone recently, but I did leave my neighbourhood for about an hour a few months ago.

---
echicken
electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
---
■ Synchronet ■ electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
--- Synchronet 3.19c-Win32 NewsLink 1.113
* Vertrauen - Riverside County, California - telnet://vert.synchro.net

To: echicken
Re: Re: Message Timezones
By: echicken to Nightfox on Fri Apr 01 2022 06:29 pm

> Sometimes I move around just to prevent blood clots, bed sores, and muscle
> atrophy. None of this movement has brought me to a different time zone
> recently, but I did leave my neighbourhood for about an hour a few months
> ago.

let me know when your 600lb life episode airs.
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
--- Synchronet 3.19c-Win32 NewsLink 1.113
* Vertrauen - Riverside County, California - telnet://vert.synchro.net

To: Dream Master
Re: Re: Message Timezones
By: Dream Master to Digital Man on Thu Mar 31 2022 09:29 pm

> -=> Digital Man wrote to Dream Master <=-
>
> DM> Re: Message Timezones
> DM> By: Dream Master to Digital Man on Thu Mar 31 2022 10:47 am
>
> > Whenever I read through QWK and FTN-based messages, I see each message
> > tagged with a timezone or offset.
>
> DM> Unfortunately, not all messages are.
>
> Standards, it seems that we lack standards. :)

Well there are standard methods of representing the timezone information, but not requirement that it's actually included. Backwards-compatiblity, lowest-common-denominator, etc.

> > This is great, yet I also feel it isn't
> > necessary. Instead, why can't we inquire with the user during sign-up and
> > within the Default User Config.
>
> DM> I've considered it. Users do move around however, sometimes between
> DM> time zones. The BBS usually stays in one time zone.
>
> Really? Why would users move around?

Uh, "calling" into a BBS while traveling. I do it myself when traveling.

> If our users are connecting into our
> systems, they still have a "home" location, such as PST8PDT or MST7MDT (old
> school, but America/Los Angeles or America/Denver). I think I'm trying to
> compare BBSes and our users to that of business e-mail and messaging systems
> (Teams, Slack, Exchange, etc.) where each is configured to the user's
> timezone and the BBS is configured to whatever timezone it is sourced at.
> Even if we configure everything to UTC, user offsets could still be a
> "thing".

Yup, they could. For convert-on-display purposes or for timestamping the data (messges) sent by the user.

> DM> If the standard was to timestamp messagse in UTC, then at least for
> DM> message creation, it would be a moot point (what zone the BBS or the
> DM> author was in), but unfortunately, that's not how existing BBS message
> DM> networks work. The date/time stamps of messages are generally expected
> DM> to be in the local time of the BBS.
>
> Very valid point. Just one of those "nice to have" things.
>
> DM> A message reader could already do that in theory: just display a
> DM> message's timestamp in UTC or convert to the user's preferred zone on
> DM> the fly.
>
> DM> I kind of like seeing the originating timezone and the local time
> DM> myself however. <shrug> --
>
> I'd love to see a message reader do that. Now, if I can only find the time
> in my overly hectic life to add something to our message readers. And your
> shrug, I support it. I do like seeing where people are at, generally
> speaking.

Yeah, it should be possible for a message reader to display both/either at the user's preference too.
--
digital man (rob)

Rush quote #3:
The men who hold high places must be the ones who start... Closer to the Heart
Norco, CA WX: 67.7°F, 61.0% humidity, 6 mph ESE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs
--- Synchronet 3.19c-Win32 NewsLink 1.113
* Vertrauen - Riverside County, California - telnet://vert.synchro.net

To: Nightfox
-=> Nightfox wrote to Dream Master <=-

Ni> Re: Re: Message Timezones
Ni> By: Dream Master to Digital Man on Thu Mar 31 2022 09:29 pm

DM>> I've considered it. Users do move around however, sometimes between
DM>> time zones. The BBS usually stays in one time zone.

DM> Really? Why would users move around? If our users are connecting into our

Ni> People move for the usual reasons, like maybe they got a job somewhere
Ni> else, or maybe they want to move somewhere with a lower cost of living,
Ni> or to be closer to family, etc., etc...

Obviously, but my point was that a setting in the user's configuration would
then manipulate the output to the user of the message's timestamp. Moot point,
but still important.

Brian Klauss <-> Dream Master
Caught in a Dream | caughtinadream.com a Synchronet BBS

.... Got my tie caught in the fax... Suddenly I was in L.A.
--- MultiMail/Mac v0.52
� Synchronet � Caught in a Dream - caughtinadream.com
--- Synchronet 3.19c-Win32 NewsLink 1.113
* Vertrauen - Riverside County, California - telnet://vert.synchro.net

To: Martin Rayburn
On 3/31/22 13:53, Martin Rayburn wrote:
> Just a thought...
>
> What if the time zone was derived from the location of the user's IP address?

You could do that... however most geoip services aren't the most
accurate, not to mention that many are paid services, or otherwise
commercial. Sometimes having a free tier, but unreliable overall.

Date/Time rules get particularly tricky as the rules often change. Such
as date for daylight savings and zones/locations that don't have
daylight savings. It's a bit of a mess in practice.

It would be nice if most messages were tagged with their originating
offset, then it's easy enough to convert to localized/client time. I've
been pushing for over a decade to have all services and communications
that I touch save/transfer in UTC, where a local origin is stored with
locality for any date/time not in UTC (airline flights, etc).
--
Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
---
￭ Synchronet ￭ Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com
--- Synchronet 3.19c-Win32 NewsLink 1.113
* Vertrauen - Riverside County, California - telnet://vert.synchro.net

To: Digital Man
Re: Message Timezones
By: Digital Man to Martin Rayburn on Thu Mar 31 2022 15:34:48

> > What if the time zone was derived from the location of the user's IP
> > address?
>
> It's a possibility.

This just so happens to coincide with a project I have been working on. I came across this HTML code that is supposed to display the visitors approximate location based on their IP address. However, whenever I use it, the result is always Roswell, NM (weird on many different levels...lol).

Does anyone have any idea where I may be going wrong or what I can do to fix it? Below is the HTML code:

<!DOCTYPE html>
<html>
<head>
<meta name="viewport" content="initial-scale=1.0, user-scalable=no"/>
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"/>
<title>Geo Locate By IP</title>
<script src="https://ajax.googleapis.com/ajax/libs/jquery/2.1.4/jquery.min.js"></script>
</head>
<body>
<div>Country: <span id="country"></span></div>
<div>State: <span id="state"></span></div>
<div>City: <span id="city"></span></div>
<div>Latitude: <span id="latitude"></span></div>
<div>Longitude: <span id="longitude"></span></div>
<div>IP: <span id="ip"></span></div>
<script>
$.getJSON('https://geolocation-db.com/json/')
.done (function(location) {
$('#country').html(location.country_name);
$('#state').html(location.state);
$('#city').html(location.city);
$('#latitude').html(location.latitude);
$('#longitude').html(location.longitude);
$('#ip').html(location.IPv4);
});
</script>
</body>
</html>

---
■ Synchronet ■ ANSUN - ansun.synchro.net
--- Synchronet 3.19c-Win32 NewsLink 1.113
* Vertrauen - Riverside County, California - telnet://vert.synchro.net

To: douray
Re: Message Timezones
By: douray to Digital Man on Wed Apr 06 2022 02:33:11

do> approximate location based on their IP address. However, whenever I use
do> it, the result is always Roswell, NM (weird on many different

do> Does anyone have any idea where I may be going wrong or what I can do to
do> fix it? Below is the HTML code:

The code you shared is fine, nothing to fix. They really just think that you're in Roswell. They think I'm in Smiths Falls, Ontario, which is a lot closer to Ottawa than it is to Toronto, where I really am.

These services are rarely very accurate. You can try some others, but you'll get similar results, or it'll be accurate for you but not somebody else.

---
echicken
electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
---
■ Synchronet ■ electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
--- Synchronet 3.19c-Win32 NewsLink 1.113
* Vertrauen - Riverside County, California - telnet://vert.synchro.net

To: douray
Re: Message Timezones
By: douray to Digital Man on Wed Apr 06 2022 02:33 am

> Re: Message Timezones
> By: Digital Man to Martin Rayburn on Thu Mar 31 2022 15:34:48
>
> > > What if the time zone was derived from the location of the user's IP
> > > address?
>
> > It's a possibility.
>
> This just so happens to coincide with a project I have been working on. I
> came across this HTML code that is supposed to display the visitors

can you please post on the bottom
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
--- Synchronet 3.19c-Win32 NewsLink 1.113
* Vertrauen - Riverside County, California - telnet://vert.synchro.net

To: echicken
Re: Message Timezones
By: echicken to douray on Wed Apr 06 2022 12:42:46

> The code you shared is fine, nothing to fix. They really just think that
> you're in Roswell. They think I'm in Smiths Falls, Ontario, which is a lot
> closer to Ottawa than it is to Toronto, where I really am.
>
> These services are rarely very accurate. You can try some others, but you'll
> get similar results, or it'll be accurate for you but not somebody else.

Wow. I wonder why they even bother if it can't at least get you within a few miles of the actual location. I live nowhere near Roswell, NM, but that's where the geo-locate ip service thinks I am.

---
■ Synchronet ■ ANSUN - ansun.synchro.net
--- Synchronet 3.19c-Win32 NewsLink 1.113
* Vertrauen - Riverside County, California - telnet://vert.synchro.net

To: MRO
Re: Message Timezones
By: MRO to douray on Wed Apr 06 2022 18:57:22

> > > > What if the time zone was derived from the location of the user's
> > > > IP address?
>
> > > It's a possibility.
>
> > This just so happens to coincide with a project I have been working on.
> > I came across this HTML code that is supposed to display the visitors
>
>
> can you please post on the bottom

On the bottom of what? My comments were below (at the bottom) under the quotes.

---
■ Synchronet ■ ANSUN - ansun.synchro.net
--- Synchronet 3.19c-Win32 NewsLink 1.113
* Vertrauen - Riverside County, California - telnet://vert.synchro.net

To: douray
Re: Message Timezones
By: douray to MRO on Wed Apr 06 2022 10:13 pm

> > can you please post on the bottom
>
> On the bottom of what? My comments were below (at the bottom) under the
> quotes.

oh sorry about that. my syncterm got borked because i resized it.
i run an old version
---
■ Synchronet ■ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::
--- Synchronet 3.19c-Win32 NewsLink 1.113
* Vertrauen - Riverside County, California - telnet://vert.synchro.net

To: douray
Re: Message Timezones
By: douray to echicken on Wed Apr 06 2022 22:12:25

do> Wow. I wonder why they even bother if it can't at least get you within a
do> few miles of the actual location. I live nowhere near Roswell, NM, but
do> that's where the geo-locate ip service thinks I am.

For some purposes they're close enough often enough. You just can't trust them for anything important.

I had a situation at work early in the pandemic where we just needed to know what country users were connecting from, and it didn't matter if we got it wrong once in a while. I used ipstack.com for that, and they seemed decent.

---
echicken
electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
---
■ Synchronet ■ electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com
--- Synchronet 3.19c-Win32 NewsLink 1.113
* Vertrauen - Riverside County, California - telnet://vert.synchro.net

To: douray
On 4/6/22 00:33, douray wrote:
> This just so happens to coincide with a project I have been working
> on. I came across this HTML code that is supposed to display the
> visitors approximate location based on their IP address. However,
> whenever I use it, the result is always Roswell, NM (weird on many
> different levels...lol).
>
> Does anyone have any idea where I may be going wrong or what I can do
> to fix it? Below is the HTML code:

GeoIP services generally suck... You might find better luck/accuracy
with other services.

https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/16965/ip-geolocation

Maxmind has about the best results from my experience (about 5-6 years
ago at this point), I would take a look at a few services.

Since timezones are pretty big, likely best to use a preset based on
geoip, but allow the user to override... set a cookie in their browser,
and or attached to the user account and use that instead if set.
--
Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
---
￭ Synchronet ￭ Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com
--- Synchronet 3.19c-Win32 NewsLink 1.113
* Vertrauen - Riverside County, California - telnet://vert.synchro.net

To: douray
On 4/6/22 20:12, douray wrote:
>
> Wow. I wonder why they even bother if it can't at least get you
> within a few miles of the actual location. I live nowhere near
> Roswell, NM, but that's where the geo-locate ip service thinks I am.

Mostly kickbacks/money... Paid services (fractions of a cent per lookup)
will often perform much better, they often have data sharing deals with
various ISPs as well to get more accurate info.

If the user is mobile, and likely to authorize the use of their position
(browsers ask), then you can use the Geolocation API combined with a
mapping system like OpenStreetMap, Google Maps or Azure Maps etc to then
translate the location (lat/lon) into a physical location. Down side,
is at that point, the location info from the browser for a desktop
device may then be less accurate.

Why try? Usually for a better user experience, especially if you are
serving a site in multiple languages. Although there's a preferred
language interface in the browser as well (headers sent to server). It
can also be used for marketing, tracking, diagnostics, etc.

Used to work at a SaaS provider that quick verified likely validity from
low information (email, ip(optional)) and had an RTT target in the teens
of ms range. Lots of distributed special sauce on the backend.
--
Michael J. Ryan - tracker1@roughneckbbs.com
---
￭ Synchronet ￭ Roughneck BBS - roughneckbbs.com
--- Synchronet 3.19c-Win32 NewsLink 1.113
* Vertrauen - Riverside County, California - telnet://vert.synchro.net