Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:
>Even the loudest cards of today are quiet compared to the cacophony we
>used to endure. I dread turning on my old XP computer because of the
>noise. You literally have to raise your voice to be heard above it.
>And that was considered relatively quiet for its day.

Except it wasn't the video card making all that noise, it was the CPU and
case fans. I never heard the fan on my original Radeon, that is until
it broke and started making a hell of a racket. So I just disconnected
the fan and my PC went back to its usual fairly loud noise level.

(Oh, and hard drives could also be pretty loud, but I found that could
vary a lot by drive, even of the same model. I think the hard drive
may be the loudest thing in my Windows XP PC right now actually.)

>We are absolutely spoiled by modern PCs, where some of the loudest
>computers of 2024 would probably have won an award in 2004 for being
>so quiet. ;-)

Even today, PCs are so quiet because they run so much cooler when idle and
in low performance situaitons. My video card's fan often isn't running
at all, even when playing games that only require minimal GPU performance.

But no, the loudest PCs today, say with an Intel i9-14900K and Nvidia
RTX 4090, with a high airflow case and fans all running at 100% speed to
cool a CPU and GPU running at 100% is not going to be particularly quiet.
Even by 2004 standards.

You can build a system with high-end components and have it run
impressively quiet when idle or with less demanding workloads, like
rms apparently did. That's the big difference between today and 2004,
fans don't need to run at 100% all the time anymore. However, if you
need to cool the upwards of 1000W (including power supply losses) that
a high-end PC today can use you're going need to move a lot of air,
and that's just not going to be very quiet.

--
l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo] rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca:11068/
db //

Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> looked up from reading the
entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs
say:

>
>
>Hey kids! What time is it? It's Howdy-Dood^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h time for
>another Completely Random and Pointless Poll! Because if it's not
>COMPLETELY random and pointless, it's not total CRAP!
>
>---------------------------------------
>
>Today, kids, let's figure out this: which GPU manufacturer's chipset
>are YOU rockin' in your rigs?
>
>
>* Nvidia (GeForce, etc)
> They've got a near monopoly on the industry for a reason.
> They're fast, capable and nearly everything supports them.

I've been saying for years the nVidia's slogan should have been "It just
fucking works!" since they generally run any game without any fuss,
unlike ATi/AMD with their drivers from hell.

I didn't update my video drivers for _7_ years.
Everything I installed, just fucking worked.

No special drivers needed, no it's crap until an emergency update is
released (remember RAGE for AMD users?) everything just worked.

Was it super duper ultra optimized for that specific game?
No, but I don't do that, cause optimizing for one usually means
something else suffers and I switch between games all the time,
especially between new and old ones.

nVidia, it just fucking works!

Xocyll

On 2/9/2024 9:39 AM, Xocyll wrote:
> Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> looked up from reading the
> entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs
> say:
>
>>
>>
>> Hey kids! What time is it? It's Howdy-Dood^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h time for
>> another Completely Random and Pointless Poll! Because if it's not
>> COMPLETELY random and pointless, it's not total CRAP!
>>
>> ---------------------------------------
>>
>> Today, kids, let's figure out this: which GPU manufacturer's chipset
>> are YOU rockin' in your rigs?
>>
>>
>> * Nvidia (GeForce, etc)
>> They've got a near monopoly on the industry for a reason.
>> They're fast, capable and nearly everything supports them.
>
> I've been saying for years the nVidia's slogan should have been "It just
> fucking works!" since they generally run any game without any fuss,
> unlike ATi/AMD with their drivers from hell.
>
> I didn't update my video drivers for _7_ years.
> Everything I installed, just fucking worked.
>
> No special drivers needed, no it's crap until an emergency update is
> released (remember RAGE for AMD users?) everything just worked.
>
> Was it super duper ultra optimized for that specific game?
> No, but I don't do that, cause optimizing for one usually means
> something else suffers and I switch between games all the time,
> especially between new and old ones.
>
> nVidia, it just fucking works!
>
Fuck ya!! :P

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

On Fri, 09 Feb 2024 11:24:13 -0500, Mike S. <Mike_S@nowhere.com>
wrote:

>On Thu, 08 Feb 2024 18:26:56 -0500, Spalls Hurgenson
><spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:

>I remember Media Vision. I had a Pro Audio Spectrum 16 from them back
>in the day.

I went through a bunch of MediaVision stuff. I think I had a Spectrum
and Spectrum 16... and something later after that but I don't recall
the model. Already then I was 'harvesting' components from computers
friends were chucking out, so I got to experience a lot of stuff. But
only a few were memorable.

In fact, the only real reason I remember the PAS16 is that had a DOS
mixer program where you could change the various volume levels. I
recall having some sort of hotkey that let me launch it and adjust
volume on the fly, which seemed amazingly advanced for the time (it
didn't work in games, of course, but did in DOS and most DOS
applications that used BIOS-level video routines)

>Yeah, I have not had a standalone sound card in my PC for a very long
>time. I do have a good stereo system connected to my PC though which
>helps.

For years I routed my soundcard through a stereo, with proper
room-filling speakers. At some point I gave up on that, partly because
the stereo and speakers were so bulky, but also because it was
increasingly outdated, with only one input. It was finally replaced by
a logitech 5.1 speaker system which sounded (slightly) worse but took
up less room, had proper bass, and better surround.

The stereo system - an Aiwa, if I recall - got thrifted and the
speakers, sadly, got sent to e-waste. To this day, I regret the
decision, even if I understand why I made it.

On Fri, 9 Feb 2024 04:19:10 -0000 (UTC), rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
(Ross Ridge) wrote:

>Technically, I also have Intel graphics in my current PC as part of
>the CPU. I actually used it for a while before I bought my current
>graphics card and it wasn't too bad.

I discovered that, to my surprise, I have Intel graphics on this board
too. I mean, sure, technically pretty much every modern Intel CPU now
has it integrated into the core, but - especially on 'high end'
motherboards aimed at gamers with more money than sense*, there
usually isn't a connector to do anything with that functionality. I
assumed that was the case with my computer too.

Except, the other day, while giving the PC a blow-out, I noticed I
actually had a superfluous HDMI port on the motherboard. Apparently
when I bought the PC - and everytime I looked at it since - I
completely overlooked it.

(To be fair, it's sort of squished in with the USB-A sockets, and even
though the two ports are discernably different sizes and shapes, they
aren't SO different that it is impossible to confuse the two if you
aren't expecting it. Anyway, that's my story and I'm sticking with it.
;-)

I'm tempted to see if the motherboard will allow me to run discrete
and integrated graphics at the same time. Could I plug in a FIFTH
monitor? The only thing that is holding me back is that, to check, I'd
have to reboot the PC and I almost never do that anymore ;-)

* guilty

Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> writes:

> Even the loudest cards of today are quiet compared to the cacophony we
> used to endure. I dread turning on my old XP computer because of the
> noise. You literally have to raise your voice to be heard above it.
> And that was considered relatively quiet for its day.

Shrug. IMO, noise was (and is) a choice. I remember I suffered and
endured with my TNT2 Ultra and it's whiny fan. And eventually unplugged
it, thinking, if it's gonna melt, let it melt. Didn't melt and boy, was
the relative quiet welcome. I think my next graphics card was a fanless
Geforce2 MX.

Mike S. <Mike_S@nowhere.com> writes:

> On Tue, 06 Feb 2024 23:47:17 +0200, Anssi Saari
> <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> wrote:
>
>>Sure it was Nvidia. I had a TNT2 Ultra, after, I think, a Voodoo 2 which
>>was paired with something else for 2D, no idea what. It's too bad I'm
>>pretty vague on how my GPU history went, I have some idea on how my CPU
>>history went at least.
>
> I have a better idea how my sound card history went. My first card was
> a Game Blaster but I wished it was a Roland MT-32!

I guess mine is pretty fuzzy too. I remember I built a couple of those
simple printer port DA converters that were called "Covox" I think, just
a bunch of resistors really. Some games even supported that I think, and
some mod players too. Sound quality was not great but much better than
the PC speaker.

The first soundcard was a Soundblaster copy called Thunderboard and I
had a Gravis Ultrasound too and I think I got the original GUS updated
to the newer GUS via warranty somehow. I never much cared for
Soundblaster emulation with the GUS so I kept a Soundblaster compatible
card around and connected so I could use both at the same time. Some
games would support just the Soundblaster, others would support the GUS
and some would support two soundcards, as in one for music and another
for sound effects.

But any other soundcards, it gets fuzzy. I had other Sounblaster
compatible later, in fact I scored a freebie which I think was called
Jazz 16 from a job. Either that or something else was Soundblaster Pro
compatible which meant panning of the mono digital output...

Later on an SB32 but I'm not sure if I used that much. And some PCI
cards, there was some Trust card with a Taiwanese C-Media chip that had
early support in Linux because they did that themselves. And some other
now forgotten manufacturer even provided OS/2 drivers for their HW, I
was using OS/2 for most of the late 1990s.

One more sound thing was an external box from Terratec, using
Firewire. I actually dug that up recently for some vinyl digitizing, as
it has a phono input. Had to dig out my old Powerbook too since it's the
only thing I have with Firewire... I mean sure, my PCI Firewire card was
still there in storage too but that would've been a little hard to put
into a computer now with only PCI express slots.

I remember I was happy when soundcards were reduced to a simple serial
port in the form of Toslink which I could just plug into my amp. I
didn't have a use for recording anything for a long time so this was
fine.

Since Toslink is optical, there's no worry about electrical interference
either. In fact, still doing that but now the Toslink goes to a preamp
which can take also bluetooth and USB and connects to my active speakers.

On Thu, 08 Feb 2024 21:13:49 +0000, Mr Rob
<noemailformethx@jsjsaiiowppw.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 05 Feb 2024 20:40:25 -0500, Spalls Hurgenson
><spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>>How 'bout you... what graphics processor are you running? Our CRAP
>>poll needs the data!
>
>ATi/AMD Radeon since the days of the HD4850
>
>Previously I switched between ATi and Nvidia. I loved the Geforce 2Ti
>cards.
>
>I think it was the FX5xxx series that did it for me with Nvidia, but
>it was so long ago that I can't clearly remember.
>
>I currently use the Sapphire RX 7800 XT Nitro and have used Sapphire
>for as far back as I can remember

If there's one thing I'd want an AMD (nee ATI) card for, it's because
it's more compatible with SteamDeck OS. I'd love to install something
like ChimeraOS onto a PC, except it doesn't support nvidia/Intel GPUs
(SteamOS is supposedly a bit more forgiving, but apparently it has
clear favoritism towards AMD too, and the publically available
versions that you can install on PC are pretty old too). I don't have
any modern AMD video cards to make it worth the effort

Still, I'm not interested enough to actually BUY an AMD card. But who
knows, something may show up on the curb or thrift-shop, and then I'll
give it a try.

On 2/9/24 11:39, Xocyll wrote:
> Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> looked up from reading the
> entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs
> say:
>
>>
>>
>> Hey kids! What time is it? It's Howdy-Dood^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h time for
>> another Completely Random and Pointless Poll! Because if it's not
>> COMPLETELY random and pointless, it's not total CRAP!
>>
>> ---------------------------------------
>>
>> Today, kids, let's figure out this: which GPU manufacturer's chipset
>> are YOU rockin' in your rigs?
>>
>>
>> * Nvidia (GeForce, etc)
>> They've got a near monopoly on the industry for a reason.
>> They're fast, capable and nearly everything supports them.
>
> I've been saying for years the nVidia's slogan should have been "It just
> fucking works!" since they generally run any game without any fuss,
> unlike ATi/AMD with their drivers from hell.
>
> I didn't update my video drivers for _7_ years.
> Everything I installed, just fucking worked.
>
> No special drivers needed, no it's crap until an emergency update is
> released (remember RAGE for AMD users?) everything just worked.
>
> Was it super duper ultra optimized for that specific game?
> No, but I don't do that, cause optimizing for one usually means
> something else suffers and I switch between games all the time,
> especially between new and old ones.
>
> nVidia, it just fucking works!
>
> Xocyll

-except on Linux.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

On Mon, 12 Feb 2024 09:45:33 -0600, candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net>
wrote:

>On 2/9/24 11:39, Xocyll wrote:
>> nVidia, it just fucking works!

>-except on Linux.

I admit it; I LOL'd.

Still, I've not had particularly bad luck with Nvidia on Linux. Sure,
it's harder to install, since most distributions don't install
proprietery drivers by default. And maybe the performance is worse

(I've never really noticed the difference, but on the PCs I've tried
it, I don't think I'd notice. Slow hardware is slow no matter the OS.
;-)

But - once I got everything installed - the nVidia hardware worked
just as well as the Intel (and rare ATI) chipsets.

candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net> writes:

>> nVidia, it just fucking works!
>> Xocyll
>
> -except on Linux.

I admit I've had the occasional issue. Like a rescue system spamming
nouveau drivers on anything nvidia, regardless of whether nouveau had
any kind of support for the current chip and resulting in nothing but a
black screen. Having the built in Intel was sometimes handy, when I had
Intel.

But still, when it came time to have some little video decoding help,
which in the bad old days actually meant just HW scaling and HW color
space conversion, Nvidia was there and "just worked". Eventually there
was actual video decode support in the form of vdpau and that just
worked too. I don't do have much recent gaming experience in Linux, the
few simple games I've run would probably be just fine with software
rendering too.

Other than that, for me in Debian, the nvidia drivers are installed via
a single command (apt install nvidia-driver) and that's that. Well, after
enabling the non-free repository. Just works, I have the RTX3070Ti in my
desktop and a Quadro M2000 in my old laptop.

On Mon, 12 Feb 2024 09:45:33 -0600, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
candycanearter07 wrote:

>On 2/9/24 11:39, Xocyll wrote:
>> Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> looked up from reading the
>> entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs
>> say:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hey kids! What time is it? It's Howdy-Dood^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h time for
>>> another Completely Random and Pointless Poll! Because if it's not
>>> COMPLETELY random and pointless, it's not total CRAP!
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Today, kids, let's figure out this: which GPU manufacturer's chipset
>>> are YOU rockin' in your rigs?
>>>
>>>
>>> * Nvidia (GeForce, etc)
>>> They've got a near monopoly on the industry for a reason.
>>> They're fast, capable and nearly everything supports them.
>>
>> I've been saying for years the nVidia's slogan should have been "It just
>> fucking works!" since they generally run any game without any fuss,
>> unlike ATi/AMD with their drivers from hell.
>>
>> I didn't update my video drivers for _7_ years.
>> Everything I installed, just fucking worked.
>>
>> No special drivers needed, no it's crap until an emergency update is
>> released (remember RAGE for AMD users?) everything just worked.
>>
>> Was it super duper ultra optimized for that specific game?
>> No, but I don't do that, cause optimizing for one usually means
>> something else suffers and I switch between games all the time,
>> especially between new and old ones.
>>
>> nVidia, it just fucking works!
>>
>> Xocyll
>
>-except on Linux.

Nvidia works on Linux. It just doesn't work with the philosophy of Linux.

So distros make it hard to set up because of their ideological dislike of
binary blobs.

They should go the Firefox route with Widevine. Make it an opt-out part
of a default install if Nvidia is detected. "This isn't free, but you may
need it." I think Ubuntu used to do that.

I don't know about the state of other distros, but the blob works.

--
Zag

No one ever said on their deathbed, 'Gee, I wish I had
spent more time alone with my computer.' ~Dan(i) Bunten

On 2/12/24 17:58, Spalls Hurgenson wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Feb 2024 09:45:33 -0600, candycanearter07 <no@thanks.net>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2/9/24 11:39, Xocyll wrote:
>>> nVidia, it just fucking works!
>
>> -except on Linux.
>
> I admit it; I LOL'd.
>
> Still, I've not had particularly bad luck with Nvidia on Linux. Sure,
> it's harder to install, since most distributions don't install
> proprietery drivers by default. And maybe the performance is worse
>
> (I've never really noticed the difference, but on the PCs I've tried
> it, I don't think I'd notice. Slow hardware is slow no matter the OS.
> ;-)
>
> But - once I got everything installed - the nVidia hardware worked
> just as well as the Intel (and rare ATI) chipsets.

That's good! I've just heard a lot of horror stories about NVIDIA support.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

On 2/13/24 11:22, Zaghadka wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Feb 2024 09:45:33 -0600, in comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,
> candycanearter07 wrote:
>
>> On 2/9/24 11:39, Xocyll wrote:
>>> Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> looked up from reading the
>>> entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs
>>> say:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hey kids! What time is it? It's Howdy-Dood^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h time for
>>>> another Completely Random and Pointless Poll! Because if it's not
>>>> COMPLETELY random and pointless, it's not total CRAP!
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Today, kids, let's figure out this: which GPU manufacturer's chipset
>>>> are YOU rockin' in your rigs?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> * Nvidia (GeForce, etc)
>>>> They've got a near monopoly on the industry for a reason.
>>>> They're fast, capable and nearly everything supports them.
>>>
>>> I've been saying for years the nVidia's slogan should have been "It just
>>> fucking works!" since they generally run any game without any fuss,
>>> unlike ATi/AMD with their drivers from hell.
>>>
>>> I didn't update my video drivers for _7_ years.
>>> Everything I installed, just fucking worked.
>>>
>>> No special drivers needed, no it's crap until an emergency update is
>>> released (remember RAGE for AMD users?) everything just worked.
>>>
>>> Was it super duper ultra optimized for that specific game?
>>> No, but I don't do that, cause optimizing for one usually means
>>> something else suffers and I switch between games all the time,
>>> especially between new and old ones.
>>>
>>> nVidia, it just fucking works!
>>>
>>> Xocyll
>>
>> -except on Linux.
>
> Nvidia works on Linux. It just doesn't work with the philosophy of Linux.
>
> So distros make it hard to set up because of their ideological dislike of
> binary blobs.
>
> They should go the Firefox route with Widevine. Make it an opt-out part
> of a default install if Nvidia is detected. "This isn't free, but you may
> need it." I think Ubuntu used to do that.
>
> I don't know about the state of other distros, but the blob works.

Oh, that explains a lot.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom