In article <a2531c865a.john@user.orpheusmail.co.uk>, J Peachey
<john@jpeachey.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <5a8615eba1cvjazz@waitrose.com> Chris Newman
> <cvjazz@waitrose.com> wrote:

> > Hi,

> > Raspberry Pi4 RISC OS 5.28 running Pinboard 2 (dec 2022)

> > I have !MuView by Chris Grandsen.

> > it's not in the !Boot look at list. !PDF 3.02.1.24.1 (March 2017)by
> > Grandsen, Granville, Smiers 7 noonburg is in the look at list.

> > However, every time I look at a PDF it loads !MuView, not !PDF.

> > I've used Textseek to look in !Boot to see if I can find a reference
> > to!MuView but the only 2 are the listing in Pinboard 2.

> > It doesn't appear in Resources.

> > So why / how has !MuView set itself up as the default?

> > It's a great app and I use it a lot but you can't print directly from
> > it whereas you can from !PDF. Therefore, I want to be able to choose
> > easily which app I use.

> > Any thoughts?

> Unless I have read your posting incorrectly you are using pinboard2 ?
> My understanding is the new Pinboard treats the contents like any other
> filer window. In which case I would expect !Muview's !boot file to be
> run when Pinboard 2 starts up.

> Try taking !Muview out of the pinboard and rebooting. What happens
> then?

Well, dash my buttons. You're right sir. That did the trick. Obviously I
didn't read the Pinboard 2 idiots guide thoroughly enough.

I've just had a look at the only Help file I can find in the Pinboard
download. It's a bit sparse. Under "Goals" we get "Allow filer-like
operations" but whether that is for the future or already implemented I
know not.
I can't find a way to turn off the running of a !Boot file so it looks as
though I'll have to put !MuView in my launcher (NeXTBar - Paul Vigay) for
ease of access instead of the pinboard.

--
Chris Newman

Am Fri, 17 Mar 2023 14:12:27 +0000 schrieb Chris Newman:

> In article <a2531c865a.john@user.orpheusmail.co.uk>, J Peachey
> <john@jpeachey.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <5a8615eba1cvjazz@waitrose.com> Chris Newman
>> <cvjazz@waitrose.com> wrote:
>
>> > Hi,
>
>> > Raspberry Pi4 RISC OS 5.28 running Pinboard 2 (dec 2022)
>
>> > I have !MuView by Chris Grandsen.
>
>> > it's not in the !Boot look at list. !PDF 3.02.1.24.1 (March 2017)by
>> > Grandsen, Granville, Smiers 7 noonburg is in the look at list.
> ...
>
>> > So why / how has !MuView set itself up as the default?

>
>> Unless I have read your posting incorrectly you are using pinboard2 ?
>> My understanding is the new Pinboard treats the contents like any other
>> filer window. In which case I would expect !Muview's !boot file to be
>> run when Pinboard 2 starts up.
>
>> Try taking !Muview out of the pinboard and rebooting. What happens
>> then?
>
> Well, dash my buttons. You're right sir. That did the trick.

As mentioned above - You can modify the !Boot file ... and it can hold
its place on the pinboard.

In message <5a86973a5dcvjazz@waitrose.com>
Chris Newman <cvjazz@waitrose.com> wrote:

> In article <a2531c865a.john@user.orpheusmail.co.uk>, J Peachey
> <john@jpeachey.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <5a8615eba1cvjazz@waitrose.com> Chris Newman
>> <cvjazz@waitrose.com> wrote:

>>> Hi,

>>> Raspberry Pi4 RISC OS 5.28 running Pinboard 2 (dec 2022)

>>> I have !MuView by Chris Grandsen.

>>> it's not in the !Boot look at list. !PDF 3.02.1.24.1 (March 2017)by
>>> Grandsen, Granville, Smiers 7 noonburg is in the look at list.

>>> However, every time I look at a PDF it loads !MuView, not !PDF.

>>> I've used Textseek to look in !Boot to see if I can find a reference
>>> to!MuView but the only 2 are the listing in Pinboard 2.

>>> It doesn't appear in Resources.

>>> So why / how has !MuView set itself up as the default?

>>> It's a great app and I use it a lot but you can't print directly from
>>> it whereas you can from !PDF. Therefore, I want to be able to choose
>>> easily which app I use.

>>> Any thoughts?

>> Unless I have read your posting incorrectly you are using pinboard2 ?
>> My understanding is the new Pinboard treats the contents like any other
>> filer window. In which case I would expect !Muview's !boot file to be
>> run when Pinboard 2 starts up.

>> Try taking !Muview out of the pinboard and rebooting. What happens
>> then?

> Well, dash my buttons. You're right sir. That did the trick. Obviously I
> didn't read the Pinboard 2 idiots guide thoroughly enough.

> I've just had a look at the only Help file I can find in the Pinboard
> download. It's a bit sparse. Under "Goals" we get "Allow filer-like
> operations" but whether that is for the future or already implemented I
> know not.
> I can't find a way to turn off the running of a !Boot file so it looks as
> though I'll have to put !MuView in my launcher (NeXTBar - Paul Vigay) for
> ease of access instead of the pinboard.

I have to admit that my response was sort of gleaned from various places -
as you say the help file, is lacking at the moment. The ROD page for the
app is more helpful in it's description and capabilities. I suspect what I
half remember comes from a talk from either Andrew or Richard.

As the contents are now stored in a normal directory the new module must
do some sort of filer_boot type command.

As has been pointed out just commenting out the lines in the boot file
will overcome the problem.
John

--
_________________________________________
| University of Glos. Blighting Longlevens.
| mailto:john@jpeachey.co.uk
_______________________| http://www.jpeachey.co.uk

On 17 Mar, Sebastian Barthel wrote in message
<tv2eve$27k2v$3@solani.org>:

> As mentioned above - You can modify the !Boot file ... and it can hold its
> place on the pinboard.

Better still, just ensure that the preferred PDF reader is booted first.
Applications shouldn't claim an already claimed type on being seen by the
Filer.

Editing parts of an application is always a pain when it comes to doing an
upgrade (or asking the author for support).

--
Steve Fryatt - Leeds, England

http://www.stevefryatt.org.uk/

In article <5a86973a5dcvjazz@waitrose.com>,
Chris Newman <cvjazz@waitrose.com> wrote:
> In article <a2531c865a.john@user.orpheusmail.co.uk>, J Peachey
> <john@jpeachey.co.uk> wrote:
> > In message <5a8615eba1cvjazz@waitrose.com> Chris Newman
> > <cvjazz@waitrose.com> wrote:

[Snip]

> > > I've used Textseek to look in !Boot to see if I can find a
> > > reference to!MuView but the only 2 are the listing in Pinboard2.

[Snip]

> > My understanding is the new Pinboard treats the contents like any
> > other filer window. In which case I would expect !Muview's !boot
> > file to be run when Pinboard 2 starts up.

> > Try taking !Muview out of the pinboard and rebooting. What
> > happens then?

> Well, dash my buttons. You're right sir. That did the trick.
> Obviously I didn't read the Pinboard 2 idiots guide thoroughly
> enough.

> I've just had a look at the only Help file I can find in the
> Pinboard download. It's a bit sparse. Under "Goals" we get "Allow
> filer-like operations" but whether that is for the future or
> already implemented I know not. I can't find a way to turn off the
> running of a !Boot file so it looks as though I'll have to put
> !MuView in my launcher (NeXTBar - Paul Vigay) for ease of access
> instead of the pinboard.

I can see no evidence that Pinboard2 will boot anything - can Chris
clarify exactly where in Pinboard2 there was a reference to !MuView,
and what evidence is there that it runs the !MuView !boot file?

I am intrigued if I am being blind!

Martin

--
Martin Avison
Note that unfortunately this email address will become invalid
without notice if (when) any spam is received.

In message <mpro.rroonm00bzhoa06fi.news@stevefryatt.org.uk>
Steve Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:

> On 17 Mar, Sebastian Barthel wrote in message
> <tv2eve$27k2v$3@solani.org>:

>> As mentioned above - You can modify the !Boot file ... and it can hold its
>> place on the pinboard.

> Better still, just ensure that the preferred PDF reader is booted first.
> Applications shouldn't claim an already claimed type on being seen by the
> Filer.

> Editing parts of an application is always a pain when it comes to doing an
> upgrade (or asking the author for support).

I agree,
!PDFTest and !Muview , in that order, are added to my Apps folder and no
problems.

--
Jean-Michel

In message <5a86cc9041News03@avisoft.f9.co.uk>
Martin <News03@avisoft.f9.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <5a86973a5dcvjazz@waitrose.com>,
> Chris Newman <cvjazz@waitrose.com> wrote:
>> In article <a2531c865a.john@user.orpheusmail.co.uk>, J Peachey
>> <john@jpeachey.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <5a8615eba1cvjazz@waitrose.com> Chris Newman
>>> <cvjazz@waitrose.com> wrote:

> [Snip]

>>>> I've used Textseek to look in !Boot to see if I can find a
>>>> reference to!MuView but the only 2 are the listing in Pinboard2.

> [Snip]

>>> My understanding is the new Pinboard treats the contents like any
>>> other filer window. In which case I would expect !Muview's !boot
>>> file to be run when Pinboard 2 starts up.

>>> Try taking !Muview out of the pinboard and rebooting. What
>>> happens then?

>> Well, dash my buttons. You're right sir. That did the trick.
>> Obviously I didn't read the Pinboard 2 idiots guide thoroughly
>> enough.

>> I've just had a look at the only Help file I can find in the
>> Pinboard download. It's a bit sparse. Under "Goals" we get "Allow
>> filer-like operations" but whether that is for the future or
>> already implemented I know not. I can't find a way to turn off the
>> running of a !Boot file so it looks as though I'll have to put
>> !MuView in my launcher (NeXTBar - Paul Vigay) for ease of access
>> instead of the pinboard.

> I can see no evidence that Pinboard2 will boot anything - can Chris
> clarify exactly where in Pinboard2 there was a reference to !MuView,
> and what evidence is there that it runs the !MuView !boot file?

> I am intrigued if I am being blind!

> Martin

The !Muview claimed the filetype whilst it was on the Pinboard, and didn't
when removed from the Pinboard would suggest that the module does run the
boot files of any apps.
The new pinboard is not like v1 which you have to physically save after
every change, it is dynamic, much like the rest of the filing system. The
new version is much more like windows in that when something is saved to
the desktop it actually sticks the file into a directory for later
retrieval. This fits in with the statement to make it consistant with rest
of the filing system. As I have said in a previous post this is my
understanding based on what I have seen and heard.

John

--
_________________________________________
| University of Glos. Blighting Longlevens.
| mailto:john@jpeachey.co.uk
_______________________| http://www.jpeachey.co.uk

On 19 Mar, J Peachey wrote in message
<6ab597875a.john@user.orpheusmail.co.uk>:

> In message <5a86cc9041News03@avisoft.f9.co.uk>
> Martin <News03@avisoft.f9.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > I can see no evidence that Pinboard2 will boot anything - can Chris
> > clarify exactly where in Pinboard2 there was a reference to !MuView, and
> > what evidence is there that it runs the !MuView !boot file?
>
> > I am intrigued if I am being blind!
>
> The !Muview claimed the filetype whilst it was on the Pinboard, and didn't
> when removed from the Pinboard would suggest that the module does run the
> boot files of any apps.

The source code is a little impenetrable and not that well commented, but
there's an fs_boot_application() function in fs.c which appears to boot an
application, and it *appears* from a very cursory look to be called when
things are pinned to the pinboard using *Pin and *XPin.

This is actually a fairly common problem with application launchers, as an
application needs to be booted, or at the very least have its sprites passed
to *IconSprites, in order for its icons to look correct when the launcher is
viewed by the user. In Launcher I offer the options of "Boot", "Load
sprites" or "Do nothing" for precisely this reason (and "Load sprites" would
be the one that Chris would want to apply for MuView).

So, yes, I think that apps pinned to Pinboard 2 will probably be booted. As
I said, I could be wrong. I don't (yet) use Pinboard 2.

If both apps are on the new pinboard, it looks as if another solution for
Chris might be to ensure that in whatever configuration file is being
created, the *(X)Pin command for PDF appears before the *(X)Pin command for
MuView. As far as I can tell, Pinboard 2 boots things in the order that they
are added to the backdrop.

--
Steve Fryatt - Leeds, England

http://www.stevefryatt.org.uk/

In article <mpro.rrrstd018pcle05nn.news@stevefryatt.org.uk>,
Steve Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
> On 19 Mar, J Peachey wrote in message
> <6ab597875a.john@user.orpheusmail.co.uk>:

> > In message <5a86cc9041News03@avisoft.f9.co.uk>
> > Martin <News03@avisoft.f9.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > I can see no evidence that Pinboard2 will boot anything - can
> > > Chris clarify exactly where in Pinboard2 there was a reference
> > > to !MuView, and what evidence is there that it runs the !MuView
> > > !boot file?
> >
> > > I am intrigued if I am being blind!
> >
> > The !Muview claimed the filetype whilst it was on the Pinboard,
> > and didn't when removed from the Pinboard would suggest that the
> > module does run the boot files of any apps.

> The source code is a little impenetrable and not that well
> commented, but there's an fs_boot_application() function in fs.c
> which appears to boot an application, and it *appears* from a very
> cursory look to be called when things are pinned to the pinboard
> using *Pin and *XPin.

> This is actually a fairly common problem with application
> launchers, as an application needs to be booted, or at the very
> least have its sprites passed to *IconSprites, in order for its
> icons to look correct when the launcher is viewed by the user. In
> Launcher I offer the options of "Boot", "Load sprites" or "Do
> nothing" for precisely this reason (and "Load sprites" would be the
> one that Chris would want to apply for MuView).

> So, yes, I think that apps pinned to Pinboard 2 will probably be
> booted. As I said, I could be wrong. I don't (yet) use Pinboard 2.

> If both apps are on the new pinboard, it looks as if another
> solution for Chris might be to ensure that in whatever
> configuration file is being created, the *(X)Pin command for PDF
> appears before the *(X)Pin command for MuView. As far as I can
> tell, Pinboard 2 boots things in the order that they are added to
> the backdrop.

Thanks John & Steve: I was obviously having an aberration and missed
the obvious %Run <appname>.!Boot commands being run, in the order of
the Pin commands in Tasks.Pinboard - which seems to be order of
adding.

The !Boot is required, as Steve says, to do the IconSprites command so
the icon can be displayed.

Interestingly, Pinboard2 creates an alias for IconSprites:
Alias$IconSprites : Pinboard_IconSprites %0
and then Pinboard2 then does
%IconSprites <filename>

Martin

--
Martin Avison
Note that unfortunately this email address will become invalid
without notice if (when) any spam is received.

In article <5a86cc9041News03@avisoft.f9.co.uk>, Martin

<Big snip>

> I can see no evidence that Pinboard2 will boot anything - can Chris
> clarify exactly where in Pinboard2 there was a reference to !MuView,
> and what evidence is there that it runs the !MuView !boot file?

I had taken MuView off the Pinboard, saved the new pinboard and
re-started the machine.

Now I'm back to !PDF being the default.

In order to show the type of thing I'd discovered earlier, I did a
Textseek search on !StreetFix whichis still on the pinboard. Got
references to it as expected. Then I did a search on MuView expecting
nothing to show but see below.

Info for : SCSI::PiHard.$.!Boot.Choices.Boot.Tasks.Pinboard
69 X Pin Boot:^.Politics.!StreetFix 1948 384
70 X PinboardModifyPin Boot:^.Politics.!StreetFix -U -alias ""
Info for : SCSI::PiHard.$.!Boot.Choices.Pinboard.SavedFiles.Pinboard
69 X Pin Boot:^.Politics.!StreetFix 1948 384
70 X PinboardModifyPin Boot:^.Politics.!StreetFix -U -alias ""
Info for : SCSI::PiHard.$.!Boot.Choices.Textseek.Searches
1 ....!StreetFix

Info for : SCSI::PiHard.$.!Boot.Choices.Pinboard.SavedFiles.Pinboard
45 X Pin Boot:^.4Publish.PDFstuff.!MuView 1187 256
46 X PinboardModifyPin Boot:^.4Publish.PDFstuff.!MuView -U -alias ""
Info for : SCSI::PiHard.$.!Boot.Choices.Textseek.Searches
1 ....MuView
3 ....muview

--
Chris Newman